Kenora police shoot another FN
Seems like when the pigs are dealing with FNs they go for the glock. Violent drunken setters in airports get tasered, and violent settler students get physical restraint (U of Ottawa). Mentally challenged FN women get shot by the racist OPPigs.
'The officer was scared, she panicked' No need to shoot woman: witness
"The officer was scared, she panicked," Kelly said. "You could see it on her face."
Kelly said the officer pulled out her handgun and fired two shots at the woman, who fell on her face on the sidewalk.
The 39-year-old aboriginal woman, who witnesses identified as Helen Proulx, was treated at the Kenora hospital and then later airlifted to Health Sciences Centre in Winnipeg.
Kelly said the shooting attracted a large crowd of mostly aboriginal people, who began chanting at the police officer.
"People kept repeating, 'why didn't you Taser her, why didn't you Taser her,'" Kelly said, adding she believed the shooting was unnecessary given the woman's severe drunkenness.
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/the-officer-was-scared-she-panick...
Comments
Tasers are supposed to be "less than lethal". Getting shot by the pigs is almost always a death sentence. Getting tazed is bad, but the vast majority of the time the person lives. But even before all that, the pigs have a duty to attempt all avenues of defusing the situation, but as we all know they immediately go for the violence, and if it's FNs that means a bullet.
Thanks for reporting this, that's the main thing, that all of these incidents need to be better reported, though I can only comment honestly how sad and pathetic are all of the details mentioned, on 'both sides', or should one also have asked if the police officer was a First Nation Police Force officer? I'm guessing probably not because even as I've begun to learn about the problems brought about by Fisrt Nations policing, the divisiveness doesn't appear to have yet reached the extent where First Nations regulalry shoot their own people, usually their responsibilities are in a lesser capacity where at the worst they might end up standing by while witnessing an incident like this one.
Kenora's former name would have fit so much better in the title.
Language choices continuce to be an interesting topic here.
Rat Portage Pigs does have a nice ring doesn't it.
You are right E.TAM, the police go for the gun too easily when it is a FN. So why is a lone police officer trying to disarm a drunken woman with a knife. I would hope that this is not police procedure. Seems to me if this woman had done the same thing at a party the people around her would likely have merely disarmed her and not murdered her in cold blood.
Lets see murder a citizen or risk getting cut by a knife in the hands of a drunk. If police officers want an profession that has no risk to themselves then they need a new job. But they should not become hospital employees because they get attacked more. They should also stay away from construction because far more construction workers are killed or injured than police.
We need to fix our police training. There first priority now is to shoot to kill to protect themselves from harm. Maybe they need a new skill set.
Part of the problem with using a gun so much is with the training they undergo to use it. Anyone trained to use a gun is taught to shoot centre of mass. Handguns are notoriously unreliable for accuracy so to make sure you have a chance to hit something you aim at the centre of mass(stomach/chest basically). Aiming for legs, arms, hands, the weapon brandished etc is futile, you will just miss. So pretty much its a given that if they hit, they hit something vital.
Training to use a handgun less is better. Like if the person is waving a knife but is not within reach of anyone, just watch them and try them to drop it but do not physically confront them unless they are threatening someone else (that they can reach) or coming at you (and not because you were physically confronting them)
Language choices continuce to be an interesting topic here.
Your use of "interesting" is, itself, interesting.
Somebody said that to me on another discussion group today, sven.
Thanks for posting this, E. Tamaran. This stuff so rarely gets reported. It seems like people are simply tired of hearing about the continual violence against the FN and it makes me sick. We need to remain vigilant. In another thread, about the G8/G20 it was reported that CSIS has been making wild threats towards FN people regarding their involvement in the upcoming summits. I know they won't be intimidated and I look forward to standing in solidarity.
This is really strange. I saw that Maysie commented (as post #10) on the TAT...but when I actually opened this thread, her post is not here!
ETA: My post is now listed as post #10 on the TAT. What happened to your post, Maysie?!? 
It's important that every time something like this happens that we know about it and tell others how wrong and unjust the colonial armed state is against FN people across Canada. Thanks for letting us know about this, E.Tamaran.
Yes, thank you, E. Tamaran. Any news about how the victim of this shooting is doing?
Why did the cop even shoot her? Because she was drunk and somehow that's a threat? 
She had a knife. You would have called the police if you had seen it. A drunk with a knife should not be any match for a well trained peace officer. Many less lethal options were available starting with talking until another officer arrives.
I suspect that this police officer was following the training she was given. But I don't buy the crap that if a drunk with a knife lunges at you your first and only response is to shoot to kill. Shit I've had a drunk wave a knife at me in a bar and I survived by getting the fuck out of the way and tackling him as he lunged. That is a proper role for a peace officer not shooting to kill.
In BC our police trainers beat up paper delivery drivers merely for being brown. I wonder if this cop was a BC Justice Institute graduate.
To all moderators: I'm curious as to why words like 'bitch' and 'douchebag' are forbidden, but calling police 'pigs' gets a pass.
To all moderators: I'm curious as to why words like 'bitch' and 'douchebag' are forbidden, but calling police 'pigs' gets a pass.
Give it a rest. And remember what forum you're in!
She had a knife. You would have called the police if you had seen it. A drunk with a knife should not be any match for a well trained peace officer. Many less lethal options were available starting with talking until another officer arrives.
I suspect that this police officer was following the training she was given. But I don't buy the crap that if a drunk with a knife lunges at you your first and only response is to shoot to kill. Shit I've had a drunk wave a knife at me in a bar and I survived by getting the fuck out of the way and tackling him as he lunged. That is a proper role for a peace officer not shooting to kill.
In BC our police trainers beat up paper delivery drivers merely for being brown. I wonder if this cop was a BC Justice Institute graduate.
Its not 'shoot to kill'. Except for SWAT snipers they never 'shoot to kill' in theory. They shoot centre of mass which is designed to make sure they get a hit and stop the attack.
Its coincidence that centre of mass tends to kill of course
Scared police officers is not a good thing. That officer should think seriously about a career change, or a desk job, if her supervisors haven't recommended it already. Dealing with people isn't her thing apparently.
Agent666. "Bitch" and "douchebag" are sexist hateful words used to insult women (and men) by referring to women in extremely negative ways. I'm not having a 101 discussion with you. You can read, you can google, you can search the archived feminist forum threads, and you can start a new thread.
I've reviewed your posting history, Agent. You're on wafer-thin ice.
If you truly don't understand, and you've read the recent thread on the issue of the d-bag word, please read some of the older threads in the feminist forum. But somehow I don't think you really want to know the difference. Just a spidey-sense I'm getting.
One of the "pigs" discussion threads is here. I don't think it resolved anything in the babble community, but the moderators and other staff of rabble understand that it's allowed because of systemic racist police oppression in Canada against First Nations people and people of colour. While it's not the nicest word to describe an entire gun-carrying violent profession, oppression isn't so damn nice either. Words (pig) used by non-police officers compared to actions (assaults, shootings, intimidations, beatings, murder) by police officers. I say actions are worse.
Okay, no more thread drift, please return to the topic.
I used to go out with a First Nations woman who was training to be an RCMP member.
The keepers of babble orthodoxy would have their tongues tied into knots trying to determine the appropriate insult for her.
I just thought of something.
It's okay to call a cop a filthy pig. is it okay to call a non cop a filthy pig? I find calling a woman a pig is sexest.
What if a cop identified themselves as a poster here? Could we still call them a pig or would that be considered a personal attack?
She had a knife. You would have called the police if you had seen it.
Clever jab! Ya i'm a pig lover narc rat, go on you know you wanna say it. I won't report you. Just please get it all out of your system so I don't have to hear it every different topic involving cops, thanks!
And I would be WAY out of line to call the police if someone was drunk and had a knife, that's just stupid of me.
For someone drunk with a knife being no match for someone who doesn't have a knife. What martial arts move exactly do you use to disarm someone with a knife? Do you grab the knife or judo chop the wrist or take your shirt off and wrap it around their wrist? What kind of training do cops get exactly?
I used to go out with a First Nations woman who was training to be an RCMP member.
The keepers of babble orthodoxy would have their tongues tied into knots trying to determine the appropriate insult for her.
If she's working on the FN as a band constable then Peacekeeper is a suitable apellation.
Okay al-Q. That's enough.
For the past weeks (months?) you've been throwing shots like this at me and Catchfire, "the babble orthodoxy", etc. Or maybe they're aimed mostly at me. Enough. This is my workplace. There is a route you (or any babbler) are welcome to take where specific complaints about me or Catchfire or both of us can be expressed and dealt with. You've been here long enough to know that already.
And to respond to your direct accusation, the very few times on babble that I've ventured one level deeper in analysis and understanding, into the more complex areas of intersecting identities (including a few times with you, by the way) the response has been, to use the mildest descriptor possible, highly disrespectful towards me. It will be very unlikely I will venture into those areas ever again here.
Thanks for your response at post #24, E.Tamaran.
Let's return to the thread topic shall we?
What if a cop identified themselves as a poster here? Could we still call them a pig or would that be considered a personal attack?
Some of my close friends are pigs and I know they would be offended being associated with the police.
So we can now add butter knife to the list of weapons that will get you killed by cops.
so far:
butter knife
stapler
running away...
You forgot:
being black
being poor
being first nations or metis
BTW, nice to have you here Cytizen :)
She had a knife. You would have called the police if you had seen it.
Clever jab! Ya i'm a pig lover narc rat, go on you know you wanna say it. I won't report you. Just please get it all out of your system so I don't have to hear it every different topic involving cops, thanks!
And I would be WAY out of line to call the police if someone was drunk and had a knife, that's just stupid of me.
For someone drunk with a knife being no match for someone who doesn't have a knife. What martial arts move exactly do you use to disarm someone with a knife? Do you grab the knife or judo chop the wrist or take your shirt off and wrap it around their wrist? What kind of training do cops get exactly?
Take the chip off your shoulder it was not meant as anything except a statement of fact presented in a comical manner. WTF
So we can now add butter knife to the list of weapons that will get you killed by cops.
so far:
butter knife
stapler
running away...
or a wallet, or a hairbrush...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amadou_Diallo
http://www.larouchepac.com/news/2007/11/13/innocent-18-year-old-shot-20-...
For the past weeks (months?) you've been throwing shots like this at me and Catchfire, "the babble orthodoxy", etc. Or maybe they're aimed mostly at me.
Or maybe not everything's about you.
Pigs, thundering elephants and buzzing bees. Babble does sometimes seem like a menagerie, Al-Q.
The woman who was shot by the piggy in question is now being charged with assault. What a country.
Do you think she should have been charged with something less? Like attempted assault with a weapon? Or do you think she should be let off with nothing?
I read the story and the thing is she did charge towards someone with a knife.... That's kinda assaulting someone.
You can laugh and say OMG it's just a butter knife but
1 I'm sure there is no way you can tell the difference between a knife and a butter knife in a situation like that and
2 this guy is shaving with a butter knife, so they can be sharpened.
http://jmichaelphotography.com/iceman%20(24).jpg
If the woman had a history of mental ilness then I would support not charging her or making it a mental health issue. If she was just drinking then I'm not as sympathetic. This is being FN she's probably dealt with a lot of harassment by the police but I don't know if that makes coming at one with a knife okay in my books.
The officer moved backwards, stumbled once, and repeatedly demanded the woman put down her knife. Kelly said the woman made several jabbing motions with the knife as she approached the officer and then raised her arm as if to strike the officer.
"The officer was scared, she panicked," Kelly said. "You could see it on her face."
Clearly if she is stumbling backwards and giving repeated warnings then the first thing she did wasn't pull out "a glock and shoot"
Maybe I'm not as tough as all of you but I'd probably piss my pants if someone was coming at me with a knife making stabbing motions.
"The officer was scared, she panicked," Kelly said. "You could see it on her face."
Clearly if she is stumbling backwards and giving repeated warnings then the first thing she did wasn't pull out "a glock and shoot"
Maybe I'm not as tough as all of you but I'd probably piss my pants if someone was coming at me with a knife making stabbing motions.
Health care professionals in hospital emergency rooms and long term care facilities deal with people like this on a daily basis. If we are going to give other citizens guns then maybe we need a better screening process so they at least can do as good a job as a nurse or hospital security guard.
This Officer if she was that scared needs remedial training or a new occupation. Peace officers should keep the peace not reach for their guns at the slightest problem. She was incompetent at her job and she should be disciplined. Health care workers deal with more events like this daily than the RCMP and they don't shoot or arrest the people in emotional distress. They reduced the training for Pigs a few years back and it is showing big time.
You consider someone not in the right mind (hacking at their wrists with a knife) lunging towards you a "slight" problem?
You're much more braver than I!
You feel comfortable to comment this woman was incompetent at her job and she should be disciplined. Let me ask you Kropotkin, what would you have done?
You respond to a call in a neighbourhood " described as violent and filled nightly with drunks and drug addicts who are often fighting with each other"
You're alone.
You're trying to convince an extremely intoxicated man to give up a knife that he was using to strike at his wrist.
The druken man refuses to drop the knife makes some stabbing motions towards you then lunges at you.
Okay so what do you do now Kropotkin? .
How do you deal with this slight problem of a drunk man coming at you with a knife with obvious intent to stab you?
Someone with a knife attempting to stab you is not "the slightest problem". It's a really big fucking problem. At least on this planet.
actually, kropotkin already answered that ques tion aboe, before you even asked sparky, do you NOT read what people write?
And further more he is correct, health care professionals are usually dealing with more that a butter knife, and usually daily.
Moreover, when we are confronted with physical violence, we are not "allowed" to retailate physically, even though we are trained in restraint techniques and have to pass a mandated practicum on it before anyone can even work with patients with mental illnesses, and we definitely NOT allowed to shoot them.
In fact, my life has been in immediate danger while on the job as a mental health care professional, and I still did not react in a violent manner towards my attacker. And as you can see, I am not dead, and neither is he.
Also, I remember a fairly recent 4 hr standoff with a real knife carrying man, on a Greyhound bus, that had just chopped a guys head off with it. They did not shoot him now did they?!
So get the fuck out of the way and tackle them when they lunge is the answer? lol
The difference between this example and your greyhound example is that in the former it was a drunk woman lunging at a single police officer with a knife.
In the greyhound example the man tried to jump out of a bus window and was swarmed and subdued by a whole bunch of police. You don't see a difference between 1 person lunging at another with a knife and someone clumbing out of a bus window and being caught by probably 10 or more cops? probably not.
It sounds like your saying you don't think a cop would have shot the greyhound killer if he came at them with a knife?
I get the feeling that people don't even read the details of the story or think for themselves.
Cop shoots DOESN'T MATTER, guilty! Racist pig. Murderer. Remember how quick everyone was to comment about that cop that killed the helpless old man during the traffic stop? Until oppps it looked like he probably stopped the man from murdering his wife and daughter. That got forgotten about pretty quick.
I'm sorry I know FN people put up with a scary amount of harassment and abuse from police. I have no idea if it's true or not but I would bet they deal with more than any one else in Canada.
Police shootings MUST be investigated but the problem is that when every single reaction is always Racist! They shot first because they were FN! They hate FN! Whether it's even true or not doesn't matter it's the first reaction. In my opinion all that does is make other people begin to say ya of course that's what you say every time. Almost like the boy who cried wolf. The cop in this story clearly tried to calm the situation down. Only after she was threatened with the knife AND approached did she pull out her gun and defend herself. It's not like she rolled up saw it was an FN and open fire. I'm curious why the woman was trying to hurt herself. if you ask me she could very well have been trying to commit suicide by cop. Even if she's drunk she clearly had other issues going on, doesn't anyone care what those were? no they just wanna feel good nodding their heads talking about bad cops.
Yo sparkler! How many FNs have been shot by the pigs (denied help by the pigs until they died) in the last 6 months?
Here's a fucking recap:
Pigs don't send help to 2 FN women whose car breaks down in the woods, after they called 911. One dies trying to get help after a week.
Pigs shoot Kenora FN woman (she lives).
Pigs shoot Thunder Bay FN man (he dies).
Pigs watch (and laugh!) as an FN man vomits 23 times over a 12 hours period in jail, then dies.
Pigs shoot Winnipeg FN man (he dies).
And I didn't even break a sweat. Wanna bet if I checked out the news from other major centers I'd find more?
Now sparkler, consider the FN percentage of canada's population. Let's say 2.0%. So that's 6 FNs in the past 6 months. Settlers should then be 297 police shootings/neglect resulting in death in 6 months. Not even remotely close.
FNs are being systematically exterminated by the pigs and society in general through substandard housing, lack of education, employment, nutricious foods, etc etc.
Sparky One, for the record, I don't "feel good" talking about cops who shoot and kill people. To imagine this as an abstract discussion or exercise is a very extreme and blatant example of inappropriate intellectualizing.
Every day the police harass, beat, intimidate, and yeah, kill innocent people and even not-so-innocent people, who don't deserve any of that behaviour. The police are allowed, encouraged and paid to do this. Community relations, in Toronto, between the police and the unarmed populace, has gone to shit. Not that it was ever stellar or anything.
Talking about this like we're debating point/counterpoint is relatively useless, except for keeping informed of the latest atrocity.
The police have the media, politicians of many stripes, and popular opinion on their side, speaking their talking points, rationalizations and justifications. rabble.ca and babble offer the side of the unheard, the side of those who have less access to having their story told. Allegedly. If this all seems knee jerk or automatic or too simplistic to you, then please read the comments on any mainstream news site about any story in which police violence is involved. Perhaps the majority opinions of those commenters are more to your liking.
Pigs don't send help to 2 FN women whose car breaks down in the woods, after they called 911. One dies trying to get help after a week.
I remember this. The 911 operator called the tow truck and for whatever reason the tow truck didn't go out to the spot. It wasn't "police" but someone wrote the 911 operator kinda sorta worked for the police department so they are "still FN hating pigs"
Pigs shoot Kenora FN woman (she lives).
A lone police officer pulls her gun and fires on a heavily intoxicated woman who charges at her with a knife, after attempts to talk her into dropping the knife fail. Right.
Pigs shoot Thunder Bay FN man (he dies).
Can you please give me a link to this story? I can't find it.
Pigs watch (and laugh!) as an FN man vomits 23 times over a 12 hours period in jail, then dies.
"Police and guards ridiculed Silverfox over a period of 13 hours before an ambulance was finally called after the man showed no vital signs."
They should be charged with manslaughter if you ask me.
Pigs shoot Winnipeg FN man (he dies).
Is this the case of the man charging towards the police with a machette?
Now sparkler, consider the FN percentage of canada's population. Let's say 2.0%. So that's 6 FNs in the past 6 months. Settlers should then be 297 police shootings/neglect resulting in death in 6 months. Not even remotely close.
Instead of guess work lets use actual stats.
What's the percent of FN in Canada? At that percent, what amount of non FN males and females have been shot in Canada?
You would have to break it down further Sparky.
How many minorities that are not FN are shot by police, what percentage of the population are they
How many homeless/poor/social assistance people are shot by police, what percentage of the population are they
How many of the rest (middle class and up, non minority) are shot by police, what percentage of the population are they.
And even then, simple stats many not give the answer. you might also have to do it by location as well (shootings on a reserve may mirror normal stats but then, FNs would be the majority there.)
First Nations make up over half of all Aboriginal peoples in Canada. Are we only discussing First Nations people now?
Anyway, here are population stats.
1,172,790 Aboriginal people in 2006. That's 4.4% of the Canadian population.
How many minorities that are not FN are shot by police, what percentage of the population are they
BULLSHIT! There are only two "classes" of people in Turtle Island. Aboriginals (FN, first peoples, indigenous, choose your moniker) and settlers. Get over it.
ET i think you are a little tunnel visioned, no doubt from your traumatic experiences but for the purposes of abuse of power by police, THEY (and most people) see it in terms of minorities/poor and the rest.
To make others see, you must show them the full picture. On reserve, off reserve, city and rural, minority and non-minority, FN and non-FN.
I guess I was raised to hear both sides of the story and just find this pitcular forum is not very impartial. It's funny because traditionally I'm usually the one among my friends attacking cops behavior and actions. People here are just so over the top I don't know.
As much as I dislike cops and think most of them are bullies someone coming towards a cop with a knife still makes me think ya okay self defense. Even in this story with the 39 year old woman people gloss over the fact that she had a knife and was making threatening gestures. They home in on "LOL the pig was SCARED" she needs a new line of work!
Fucking right she was scared. Wouldn't everyone here be? Remind had a 4 wheeler or helicopter or something go by her house during the olympics and she said how scared she was. From a 4 wheeler driving by, and she used to be in the army. But we don't expect a cop with a drunken person weilding a knife to be afraid? Ya whatever thats just stupid.
There is zero impartiality here when it comes with anything to do with cops. It doesn't matter if someone has a machette or gun or riding a shark with a laser on it's head. If the police are involved then they are automatically at fault and guilty.
ET i think you are a little tunnel visioned, no doubt from your traumatic experiences but for the purposes of abuse of power by police, THEY (and most people) see it in terms of minorities/poor and the rest.
To make others see, you must show them the full picture. On reserve, off reserve, city and rural, minority and non-minority, FN and non-FN.
Bacchus this is the Aboriginal Forum. If you can't participate in aboriginal discussions without making personal attacks ("you are a little tunnel visioned") or unsupportive of the FN/settler dynamic then GTFO and go spew in some other forum.
Im afraid thats not a personal attack but 'spew' is as is GTFO . Im sorry you feel that way. I do think that your experiences have made you tunnel vision when it comes to settlers/non settlers etc. I certainly understand it and dont condemn it. Everyones experiences colour their views and outlook.
If you feel it is, though, flag it to a mod to decide. Thats what I do now instead of engaging people in personal arguments oe commenting in drivebys when I see others do it. Its remarkably calming overall for me and I feel I participate better on the forum as a whole as a result
smug asshole...
Sorry you feel that way. Flagged to the mods
No doubt. Now the settler mods will ride into savage indian land and dispense justice so the settlers can live in peace.
Bye Yiwah, Joey, remind, stargazer. I liked it here for a while.
I really doubt it works that way ET, nor would I ask the mods to ban you. Your contributions here have been valuable, despite the personal attacks.
This is your problem ET.
Bacchus this is the Aboriginal Forum. If you can't participate in aboriginal discussions without making personal attacks
smug asshole...
Offended by personal attacks then turn around and make them yourself.
If the moderators agree with you, their great. If they disagree then they are settlers who just want to silence you.
You know you won't get banned, no need for puppy dog eyes.
E.Tamaran, please don't leave. The patronizing tone of "dispassion" / "reason" that you are offended by is, simply, offensive. This forum was not created for this kind of dynamic. The behaviour is shameful.
I still don't understand why a 'dynamic' has been set up where Aboriginal people are free to be disrespectful while non-Aboriginals need to pussy foot around. I continue to find it extremely patronising.
That being said, this whole discussion about relationships between law enforcement and Aboriginal peoples is getting a little ridiculous. Every single year since 2004, Howard Sapers, the Correctional Investigator for Canada, has released a report on the correctional system. This report includes a report on systemic racism against Aboriginal people. It starts with interactions with law enforcement, and ends with shoddy treatment in correctional centres. This is a well documented problem that is brought up in nearly every single report or investigation or Commission dealing with Aboriginal people.
The fact that law enforcement ALSO has systemic issues in regards to other people, particularly those of colour, and those in lower classes, does not change the FACT that the system itself is deeply flawed and does indeed lead to many more tragic incidents like this than are acceptable.
I don't agree Yiwah. E.T is rightfully pissed and I'm seeing Sparky up there stirring the pot. Hey Sparky - stay out of the thread or start a pro-police thread elsewhere. This is a protected space for anish people to discuss, cry, be frustrated. Not a place for you to debate the fucking antics of the killer set (they would be the fucking cops).
Stop now please.
(Thanks Maysie)
I find it really odd just how many people don't bother to say how disgusted they are with the cops. No, it's about ET's anger. Seriously? FFS.
I don't agree Yiwah. E.T is rightfully pissed and I'm seeing Sparky up there stirring the pot. Hey Sparky - stay out of the thread or start a pro-police thread elsewhere. This is a protected space for anish people to discuss, cry, be frustrated. Not a place for you to debate the fucking antics of the killer set (they would be the fucking cops).
Stop now please.
(Thanks Maysie)
I find it really odd just how many people don't bother to say how disgusted they are with the cops. No, it's about ET's anger. Seriously? FFS.
How dare you question me, I'm Aboriginal! You (insert perjorative term here, ending with 'settler'). If you don't agree, get out of this forum!
...
Thanks for the links Yiwah, I had not heard of them before. (which is my fault for not looking enough)
Thanks for the links Yiwah, I had not heard of them before. (which is my fault for not looking enough)
Really?
Okay, there's me again assuming this stuff is common knowledge, which with even a moment's reflection is unfair.
Here are some more links for you.
This is the final report of the Stonechild inquiry which was sparked by the freezing death of Neil Stonechild, driven to the outskirts of town in the middle of winter by the police, and left to die. Called the "Starlight Tours", this grand Prairie tradition has resulted in the deaths of many Aboriginal people. Section five in particular deals with the systemic racism within the Saskatchewan police force which led to this, and various recommendations were given.
The Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples also discusses systemic racism against Aboriginal people in terms of law enforcement and correctional services.
There are many other individual inquiries that have been done because of horrific incidences of abuse, or failure on the part of law enforcement, which also investigate and publish similar conclusions. Over and over again, recommendations are submitted, and ignored.
Here is another good news source on one of the more infamous failures of the system in regards to Aboriginal women.
On the night of February 16, 2000, two aboriginal sisters – Corrine McKeown, 52, and Doreen Leclair, 51 – were murdered. It was a big story, especially because they called police and 911 five times over eight hours to get help.
Of course what made that situation so truly awful was that though the outcome was more severe than usual, the policy towards Aboriginal 911 calls was widespread and common.
That site has links to a number of excellent sources on Aboriginal issues.
Thanks for the links Yiwah, I had not heard of them before. (which is my fault for not looking enough)
Really?
Okay, there's me again assuming this stuff is common knowledge, which with even a moment's reflection is unfair.
Here are some more links for you.
This is the final report of the Stonechild inquiry which was sparked by the freezing death of Neil Stonechild, driven to the outskirts of town in the middle of winter by the police, and left to die. Called the "Starlight Tours", this grand Prairie tradition has resulted in the deaths of many Aboriginal people. Section five in particular deals with the systemic racism within the Saskatchewan police force which led to this, and various recommendations were given.
The Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples also discusses systemic racism against Aboriginal people in terms of law enforcement and correctional services.
There are many other individual inquiries that have been done because of horrific incidences of abuse, or failure on the part of law enforcement, which also investigate and publish similar conclusions. Over and over again, recommendations are submitted, and ignored.
That one I had actually read and is similar to the 'cherry beach runs' we had here in toronto. Here the victim (usually FN but not always) was driven to cherry beach on one of the islands which is totally surrounded bu lake ontario or industry with a good few miles to walk before you hit anything that would give you access to taxis, phone or warmth. Usually in winter.
How dare you question me, I'm Aboriginal! You (insert perjorative term here, ending with 'settler'). If you don't agree, get out of this forum.
...
Okay. I'm here.
*rolls up sleeves
Bacchus, you need to reflect on the fact that when you post in the Aboriginal forum, you are posting from your subject position. It's generally not a good idea to insult others who have far more at stake in their everyday daily lives when dealing with the cops. As I said upthread, this is not an abstract intellectual exercise for some people. This is the minority position, by the way.
And, technically, we are all tunnel visioned. It's just that only one vision stands in as the "normal" vision, including here on babble. When Aboriginal people take up space here, particularly E.Tamaran, some seem to think this shakes up the natural order of things. Mods are only needed except for violation of policy.
White guys dominate the majority of the rest of babble. If anyone has nothing in particular to add to a thread here (or in the feminist forum, or in the anti-racism forum) and I don't mean everyone agreeing, which certainly isn't the case, it's no challenging task at all to simply read and not post. We all don't know everything about everything, not even me. 
E.Tamaran, you were over the top in your response to Bacchus. Don't call anyone a smug asshole, that is indeed a personal attack.
SparkyOne, this is a progressive discussion board. We will not, generally, show "all sides" of an issue. We're okay with that. You're clearly not okay with that. Which is fine. But. This is the second time today I've responded to you with that reminder. It's getting a bit old. If you don't like how one-sided babble is, and how we never show the side of the oppressor (that's not true, by the way. Don't get me started) you can make the choice to leave. Or, eventually, given how things are going with your posts these days, the moderators may be compelled to make that choice for you.
Yiwah, I love your contributions to babble, and I think that we are the richer for your wisdom and all-around smarts. Even when I disagree with you. Thank you.
And lastly E. Tamaran. I hope you come back. And, there is a way to disagree, as a settler, with a person who is Aboriginal, without enacting settler/power relationships.
*dusts off hands.
Are we good now? Dare I suggest we return to the thread topic?
I responded respectfully to you Yiwah, there was no need for that comment.
Fair enough Maysie. You make a good point about being one-sided I'll have to decide if it's better if I leave or not.
Et if I may sum up (maysie delete this if it's stiring the pot more). I think you have a lot to say but the way you go about saying it turns people off. I'm not talking about the captive fuck the po po audience here I mean people. If all you care about is bitching on Rabble about police and how basically everyone is against you than thats fine. If you want to educate, get attention and reach people than I emplore you to take the approach that some of the other first nations people here do. Sorry for singling you out.
So we can now add butter knife to the list of weapons that will get you killed by cops.
so far:
butter knife
stapler
running away...
Something I thought might interest and amuse you all, not about what will get you killed, but what will get you charged. In Germany, it is a pillow, if you hold it up to prevent yourself from getting hit. It is considered a "passive weapon", as are helmets, steel boots, or any kind of armour or faceguard that will protect you from being hit. Having your face painted is also a crime.
I don't much care what name other people want to call the police by. After all, some of them do some pretty horrible things, most forces have serious systemic problems, and I am sure a lot of us carry a great deal of anger toward some of them.
Like it or not though, they carry those guns and they have the power to use them, and it is their job to enforce the law and to protect. Nothing any of us do is going to change that. Me, I call them police officers, because that is the standard of behaviour I hold them to. Calling them anything else gives them one more reason to forget that responsibility, and to act less like a human being.
Like I said, I don't care, and I have no desire to revive that part of this discussion, but I would never use that other word.
Sparky you do not get to decide and dictate the parameters of debate. Haven't you been told to stay out of this thread?
I responded respectfully to you Yiwah, there was no need for that comment.
Ay, Stargazer, relax. My comment was very much tongue in cheek, but I did wanted to bring to your attention that if you take the position, "I am going to stand behind whatever Aboriginal people in this forum say", then you are going to be supporting contradictory positions, as we are not a hive mind. and we are not necessarily going to agree with one another all of the time.
Fair enough Maysie. You make a good point about being one-sided I'll have to decide if it's better if I leave or not.
Et if I may sum up (maysie delete this if it's stiring the pot more). I think you have a lot to say but the way you go about saying it turns people off. I'm not talking about the captive fuck the po po audience here I mean people. If all you care about is bitching on Rabble about police and how basically everyone is against you than thats fine. If you want to educate, get attention and reach people than I emplore you to take the approach that some of the other first nations people here do. Sorry for singling you out.
The audience here is different than the wider audience (thank goodness). I don't actually think that E. Tamaran (or anyone else here) needs to be educating, getting the attention of, or reaching people here on Babble. I agree with E. Tamaran at least to the extent that the dynamic here does need to be different...we should not be having to hash over the ridiculous yet common stereotypes about native people (ie. I do not think we should be discussing why native people are not all alcoholic welfare bums...if you actually believe that, then please go away). I also agree that allies need to be taking the leadership of those they claim to be allied with.
That being said, I feel the same way about venting with no analysis...then again, Aboriginal people really do not have much space to do that. You've got the same sort of space everywhere else for non-Aboriginals to spew hatred and bigotry against Aboriginal people (see any comment section in any online news source any time there is a story on Aboriginal peoples), but Aboriginal people are shut out and silenced.
So perhaps having a place to vent is a necessity, and maybe that's where this is coming from. Everyone has different needs...I had essentially decided to just let E. Tamaran do his/her thing...I don't always take my own advice though.
If Makwa isn't coming back, and it doesn't look like he is, maybe Yiwah, if you feel up to it, you could be the moderator for the Aboriginal forum. The thing is you won't have to put up with endless meta threads in this particular forum about Palestine/Israel or NDP love/hate, (which when you think about it constitutes about 80% of the non-Aboriginal Forum posts.)
Lol, I'm guilty of at least one of those meta threads...
I honestly don't think I have time to be a moderator. When I have days like this and I can post a lot, I do, and it's a joy...but generally during the week I can't be on much more than to peek in and wish I had time to post.
Sparky you do not get to decide and dictate the parameters of debate.
No more than you get to decide who contributes to these threads and who doesn't
Maysie gave me a fair warning maybe you can let her do the moderating thank you.
Good words Yiwah thank you.
we should not be having to hash over the ridiculous yet common stereotypes about native people (ie. I do not think we should be discussing why native people are not all alcoholic welfare bums...if you actually believe that, then please go away)
and when we do discuss men and women who are FN and alcoholic or FN and have to rely on welfare (or to be in the place to be attacking another person - police officer or not) we do not just write those people off as lazy or stupid but instead look at what brought them to such a painful place in the first place.
pffftttttttttttttttt
Truly. Though the Cree like to say tsaaaaaaaaaaaa.
Well the pig got away with it. Like there was ever any doubt. Oh, so funny that I can call it a pig here but not in the title.
Do you feel proud, Alex?
Grand Chief upset as OPP officer found not criminally responsible
WINNIPEG - Treaty Number 3 Grand Chief Diane Kelly is angered by a recent ruling that found an Ontario Provincial Police officer not criminally responsible for the Kenora shooting of Helen Proulx.
A lone female officer shot Proulx, 39, twice when the officer responded to a domestic violence call.
Proulx allegedly lunged at the officer with a knife and the officer stumbled backwards, firing two shots.
"Why did the female officer tend to a domestic violence call with no backup?" said Kelly. "Would it not be better policy and safer for the public for officers to have Taser guns accessible rather than handguns?"
Kelly also mentioned that off-duty OPP officers on the scene failed to take notes following the incident and failed to notify the Special Investigations Unit immediately following the shooting.
"The public has the right to know what kind of service it is purchasing from the OPP," said Kelly.
Proulx was charged with assault with a weapon, assaulting police with a weapon, uttering threats to cause death and possessing a weapon dangerous to the public.
Kelly vowed that if questions into the case were not answered by new OPP Commissioner Chris Lewis, she would file a complaint with the Independent Police Review Director to find answers and make changes to OPP policy.
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/Grand-Chief-upset-as-OPP-o...
6079_smith_w: do you have a source for those rules in Germany?
TIA
When are the police ever held criminally responsible? Only in the rarest of cases. The authority given to them allows them to do almost anything with impunity, or at the worst an 'internal review'. All Canadians need to be questioning why we continue to give the police those levels of power.
@ jacki-mo
I have a copy on my home computer if I can't find them here.
(edit)
Got it. Here's a german wikipedia site explaining the schutzwaffe (protective or passive weapon) law, which is part of the German Assembly Law (Versammlungsgesetz). It includes any protective wear, including leather pants, glasses, or anything which is held up to protect one's self form a blow.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schutzwaffe
I have an english explanation at home.
Also, June marked 25 years since masks were forbidden in Germany. That law came in shortly after the protective weapon law. The article points out that the law is still very controversial, and that it is not evenly applied across the country.
http://www.neues-deutschland.de/artikel/174046.vom-recht-auf-anonymitaet...
but excuse the OT diversion.
6079_smith: Thanks! Isn't there a way to translate these in google?
I heard that England has similar laws whereby you will be charged if you protect yourself during a physical attack and you must not persue or hurt an attacker
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Horrible I hope she is okay.
This happens way too much.
I find this statement a little weird.
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/the-officer-was-scared-she-panick...
If the cop would have tasered her people would have been yelling why did you taser her why didn't you pepper spray her or something. With all the taser abuse it's surprising they would suggest tasers.