Boycott Israel (part 2)

Looks like Herr Ryan went too far:

Toronto -- CUPE Ontario's president yesterday said a Nazi reference he used to justify criticism of Israel was "a poor choice of analogy," after a trustee with the Toronto District School Board condemned such references in calling on his board to disavow the union's proposal to ban Israeli academics from the province's post-secondary schools.

"The example I gave was inappropriate and left people with the impression I was trying to compare the people of Israel with the Nazis," said Sid Ryan yesterday.

On Monday Mr. Ryan likened Israel's attack on the Islamic University in Gaza to Nazis targeting educational institutions and burning books in the Second World War. These comments, and similar statements in subsequent media interviews, were met with widespread scrutiny.

However, in an interview with the National Post yesterday evening, Mr. Ryan said he would apologize to "any member of the Jewish community or Israelis who I've offended ... and I know I've offended some people."

Yes, he can apologize as he killed no one. So, back to the sanctions against Israel ....

You know, it occured to me that last year the Canadian government of Stephen Harper, the one cheering on Israel's murderous rampage through the Palestinian ghetto it created, introduced what it described as the world's "toughest" sanctions against Burma. And you know what? Not a single troll or other poster came on babble to denounce those sanctions nor to complain that Burma was being singled out. Oddly, the same trolls and usual suspects also never criticize sanctions against Cuba by the US as being unfair, racist, and singling out a single state and when was the last time there was an academic exchange between a US university and a Cuban university? Sven? Any idea? 

As I said, I think some of those opposed to sanctions are principled in their opposition. I think those that cry "racism" are themselves racist as they are really only interested in defended the racist and cruel occupation and on-going rampage of murder.

Any sanction that makes life as uncomfortable for the Israelies as the Israelies make if for the Palestinians seems fair to me at this stage. The trouble is how do we get our politicians to support any kind of sanctions. Any wedge issues that might work to split the political unity on the brutalization of the Palestinians?

I wouldn't support economic sanctions.  Having been to several countries that have been on the receiving end of punishing UN sponsored sanctions initiated by western powers, I've witnessed how extreme and tragic it's deprivations can become.  Sanctions mostly hurt the people at the bottom of the food chain, and in the case of Israel, it is the occupied people that would suffer the most, far more than they are now.  Israel will see to that through revenge.  They would close off everything to the Palestinians.  Diplomatic, an end to military support, and foreign asset freezes would be far more effective at aiming toward the leadership.

Palestinians in Gaza are already economically sanctioned. What is the difference?

Cueball, you brought up the example of South Africa repeatedly by stating that during Apatheid, all SA sports players, whether playing individualy or as representatives of SA, were banned.

However the wiki link in the following seems to differ with that view. According to this link, South African individual players (such as Golfers, tennis players etc) continued participating in international competitions. They were banned only where they participated as South African national team:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_boycott_of_South_Africa

Sanizadeh, your views about the call for boycott? Apart from the issue of banning academics or individuals, which is being treated in other threads?

Slumberjack, your concern is touching, but the fact remains that it is the mass civil organizations of the Palestinians themselves that have demanded boycott action. Solidarity suggests that we bow to their wishes, rather than applying our superior intellect to say, "Oh, you may think you want that, but trust us, we know better."

I'm not here to touch you.  Boycotts are different than economic sanctions.  If you have it available, I'd like to see where they call for economic sanctions.

Here's an interesting POV from a Palestinian academic, making a case for the boycott:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2007/may/24/highereducation.uk

However, ATU's resolve to move foreward with an academic boycott was thwarted by a legal opinion.

http://www.metimes.com/International/2007/09/30/israel_hails_end_of_uk_a...

I don't understand how a boycott would be considered unlawful. I remember CUPE following ATU's lead without concern about it being an unlawful action.

Anyway, it seems to me that our politicians and media are not going to advance any meaningful protest against Israel's occupation of Palestine or their brutalization of Palestinians. It will be up to NGOs and unions to keep up the fight much like it was in the fight to liberate East Timor from occupation. I support any move that furthers that agenda.

And which confirms our obligation internationally, as allies of the Palestinian people's quest for emancipation, not to second-guess their requests for aid but come forward and help in any way they request.

I do not recall Sid Ryan and other members of CUPE's Ontario University Workers Co-ordinating Committee proposing bans on:

-Palestinian academics from the Islamic University in Gaza who have not publicly disassociated themselves from their elected Hamascontrolled government's policy of firing over 10,000 rockets into Israel (specifically targeting civilian population);

-Lebanese academics who have not publicly disassociated themselves from the Hezbollah (who were members of the elected Lebanese government until 2006) policy of repeatedly firing rockets into northern Israel.

-Iranian academics who have not publicly disassociated themselves from their elected government's policy of denying Israel's right to exist, questioning the Holocaust and subsidizing terrorist organizations around the world.

Somehow, Mr. Ryan and his CUPE colleagues manage to selectively pick on the members of a single ethnic group in their proposed boycotts. There is a name for people practising such selective treatments, and there are regulations in Canada designed to deal with them. I do not think Sid Ryan should be allowed to speak at any publicly funded university in Ontario.

I'd like to address one particular defence put forward by supporters of the proposed academic boycott of Israel who I think are ducking the question of why Israel is being singled out and why not apply the same standards toa cademics from otehr countries that engage in human rights violations (including my country of citizenship and the country that employs me).

The argument that the fact that we're not boycotting EVERY country doesn't mean we shouldn't fight injustice perpetrated by ONE of them. I fully recognize the folly of the logic that "if you can't solve EVERY problem, don't bother trying to solve ANY." However, that simply doesn't apply to this situation and is a complete red herring.

There are things that we can do to affect change that are difficult and costly and there are things that we do which are easy and don't cost a thing. The absurdity of the "if not ALL, then why any?" would apply in SOME situations, but not this one. The fact that I can't afford to give a generous donation to support cancer research AND AIDS research AND heart disease research AND diabetes research shouldn't stop me from making a donation to support cancer research. The fact that I don't ahve time to volunteer at the food bank AND the homeless shelter AND the soup kitchen AND the senior's residence isn't an excuse not to volunteer at the food bank.

But the action proposed by CUPE takes no effort and costs nothing. It literally costs nothing because everyone, CIPE included, knows it will never actually be implemented. It is purely symbolic. So if you're going to take a purely symbolic action - and an easy and cost-free one - why not add other countries to the boycott list? What does it really take for CUPE to do this? 2 extra minutes of typing and an extra sheet of paper (sadly the list of human rights violators is a lengthy one). THIS is the reason that people think israel is being treated unfairly and ahve come to question teh motivations of those behind the proposal.

We wouldn't stand for this in other areas. I imagine, for example, that some people of Italian descent steal cars. People of Italian descent are certainly far from the ONLY group that steals cars. An Italian guy stealing a car isn't inherently morally worse than a Swedish guy or Mexican guy or Japanese guy or Dutch guy stealing a car. It doesn't take any extra effort on my part to condemn ALL car thiefs than it does to condemn ITALIAN ones. So, if I were to put out a public statement specifically condemning "Italian car thiefs", would it maybe be reasonable to suggest that I was treating italians unfairly? Could one plausibly suggest that I may harbour some sort of bigotry towards italians?

Well of course. And it is precisely this institution, which is primarily responsible for this situation, so I see no reason why they should not take responsibility for it.

Source 

 That depends who stole your car.

Point being ... The issue of concern in this thread is the immediate bombardment and blockade of Palestinians by Israel, the immediate events and possible effective responses to stop the immediate atrocities ... by Israel.

Klein's article now appears on Rabble.ca.

Well, I'm flattered that Naomi Klein has come out in support of my call.

Thanks, Maysie! I'm re-posting this in my other thread dedicated to such items.

Unionist, I forgot about that other thread, thanks for re-posting it.

You'll find information here.

Canada's biggest arms customer is the USA, and Israel is the USA's biggest arms customer. Undoubtedly there is a great deal of Canadian war materiel going to Israel via the USA, with no records or controls.

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Quebec Professors and University Employees Call for Boycott

Over 80 professors and employees at colleges and universities in Quebec have signed a petition calling for a comprehensive campaign of boycott, divestment and sanctions, including a boycott of Israeli academic institutions. Below is the open letter that they have issued.

 Source.

Here's the actual appeal for an academic and cultural boycott:

We stand in support of the indigenous Palestinian people in Gaza, who are fighting for their survival against one of the most brutal uses of state power in both this century and the last.

We condemn Israel’s recent (December 2008/ January 2009) breaches of international law in the Gaza Strip, which include the bombing of densely-populated neighborhoods, illegal deployment of the chemical white phosphorous, and attacks on schools, ambulances, relief agencies, hospitals, universities, and places of worship. We condemn Israel’s restriction of access to media and aid workers.

We reject as false Israel’s characterization of its military attacks on Gaza as retaliation. Israel’s latest assault on Gaza is part of its longtime racist jurisprudence against its indigenous Palestinian population, during which the Israeli state has systematically dispossessed, starved, tortured, and economically exploited the Palestinian people.

We reject as untrue the Israeli government’s claims that the Palestinians use civilians as human shields, and that Hamas is an irredeemable terrorist organization. Without endorsing its platforms or philosophy, we recognize Hamas as a democratically elected ruling party. We do not endorse the regime of any existing Arab state, and call for the upholding of internationally mandated human rights and democratic elections in all Arab states.

We call upon our fellow writers and academics in the United States to question discourses that justify and rationalize injustice, and to address Israeli assaults on civilians in Gaza as one of the most important moral issues of our time.

We call upon institutions of higher education in the U.S. to cut ties with Israeli academic institutions, dissolve study abroad programs in Israel, and divest institutional funds from Israeli companies, using the 1980s boycott against apartheid South Africa as a model.

We call on all people of conscience to join us in boycotting Israeli products and institutions until a just, democratic state for all residents of Palestine/Israel comes into existence.

Mohammed Abed
Elmaz Abinader
Diana Abu-Jaber
Ali Abunimah
Opal Palmer Adisa
Deborah Al-Najjar
Evelyn Azeeza Alsultany
Amina Baraka
Amiri Baraka
George Bisharat
Sherwin Bitsui
Breyten Breytenbach
Van Brock
Hayan Charara
Allison Hedge Coke
Lara Deeb
Vicente Diaz
Marilyn Hacker
Mechthild Hart
Sam Hamill
Randa Jarrar
Fady Joudah
Mohja Kahf
Rima Najjar Kapitan
Persis Karim
J. Kehaulani Kauanui
Haunani Kay-Trask
David Lloyd
Sunaina Maira
Nur Masalha
Khaled Mattawa
Daniel AbdalHayy Moore
Aileen Moreton-Robinson
Nadine Naber
Marcy Newman
Viet Nguyen
Simon J. Ortiz
Vijay Prashad
Steven Salaita
Therese Saliba
Sarita See
Deema Shehabi
Matthew Shenoda
Naomi Shihab Nye
Magid Shihade
Vandana Shiva
Noenoe Silva
Andrea Smith
Ahdaf Soueif
Ghada Talhami
Frank X. Walker
Robert Warrior

There was a hidden problem with your coding. I don't know what it was, but I solved it in the above quote by "Cutting" the first sentence and then "Pasting" it back in, using the "T" button below the Comment box. That stripped out the hidden formatting codes that were interfering with your coding instructions.

Are you applauding this, unionist? I find it appalling that a fucking tennis match is not even safe because of the antionality of some players.

A couple weeks back, a tennis tournament in Dubai barred an Israeli player from entering the country to compete solely based on her nationality. Thankfully, decent people like Andy Roddick refused to play in the tournament and the Tennis Network (that I subscribe to) refsued to broadcast it despite the millions in ad dollars they would lose. The tournament will be dropped from the tour next year. Glad to see my tennis community once again standing for what's right.

If a tennis match isn't even safe, what's next? Hospitals, schools and universities bombed in our own backyard?

ETA: apparently babble has boycotted unionist's posts, since his original post has been eaten by the new babble length-censor. You can still read it if you 'quote' his post, though. Only the truly devout shall be rewarded.

Yes, indeed I am, why do you think I posted it?

 "Not even safe" is your creative concoction. The problem was fear of "anti-Israel protests". We know that Israelis are not accustomed to the freedom of assembly and speech, but to call this "unsafe" is a bit of an exaggeration. At worst, their eardrums might have burst and their minds and hearts might have opened up a bit.

In Israel, Gaza, the West Bank, Golan, Lebanon, however, we see real situations that are (to use your amusing words) "not even safe because of the nationality of some players". Playing in a schoolyard while Palestinian is definitely unsafe.

But I do feel sorry for your poor poor tennis players. Imagine the suffering. Think of their families. Their children. 

[failed experiment - babble software at work]

Have you gone through Lewis Carroll's rabbit hole? We're talking about boycotting ISRAEL. Get with the thread.

No one is boycotting "this woman". If she were to join the Canadian or Greek national team, no one will hold her citizenship against her. But it's convenient for you to play the antisemitic card, isn't it?

Don't worry, though, the world is increasingly understanding the importance of treating Israel as an outlaw pariah state, even if the subtle distinctions appear to escape you.

I'll try to reprint the disappeared OP here:

"Stop the massacre in Gaza - boycott Israel now!"

Comments and ideas are welcome as to how Canadians can support this international movement.

Sorry, SSC, I guess I mixed up the Dubai incident with the one I posted about in Sweden.

I have no comment on Dubai's exclusion of some individual. I don't know the circumstances or why they did it. They may well have done it for the most barbaric and feudal motives, so I apologize if I appeared to defend the actions of some little U.S. ally.

My interest is in getting Canada and Canadians to boycott Israel, to divest, and to apply sanctions

Again, the issue is the comparison to the boycott imposed against South Africa.

 Lets make this clear, there were two boycott's against South Africa. One, and official one sanctioned by the CW and the UN, and another one, practiced by the non-governmental sector, and private individuals, and the impact of these "civil" boycott's varied depending on the country, and individuals who concerned citizens deemed to be representing South Africa, were defintely made the target of anti-Apartheid activists.

Further, the extent of these civil boycotts included direct action and civil disturbances, aimed at directly preventing organizers of public events from supporting and promoting South African individuals. The arguement that there is some kind of clear distinction between individuals representing a country officially, and those who "just happen" to hold Israeli citizenship is "arguable" at the very extreme extent of prevarication to the extent where such an arguement could also be made about "official" representatives, and is therefore obviously tendentious.

Do those who get so worked up about a boycott of a tennis match become equally upset knowing that Israel is imposing an embargo on, well, FOOD, on Gaza?

In the face of their starvation blockade on Palestinians, we cannot boycott Israelis enough.

Exactly. So if a tournament tried to ban a Palestinian athlete because people of the same nationality committed atrocities it would be entirely inappropriate. Also, yes, they are not acting "as palestinians" anymore than paul bernardo was acting "as a canadian". people who committ appalling acts should never get the moral cover of participating in some sort of "resistance' as a way to excuse murder or have people "withold judgment" from their actions.

No one is suggesting that not being allowed to compete in a tennis tournament is the greatest injsutice in the history of the world. But it's injsutice nonetheless. When African American baseball players were barred from the major leagues and consigned to the "negro leagues" there were certainly greater examples of racial discrimination. Not being allowed to be a professional baseball player was hardly the WORST thing that people faced. But it was still utterly indefensible and appalling that people should be excluded and marginalized and treated as "other' in such a way and decent people were still compelled to speak out against it.

You obviously don't see the connexion between boycotting Israel and trying to end the oppression of Palestinians.

I suppose if you insist on seeing Israelis as the exclusive eternal victims, there isn't much to say that will change your attitude.

Your Israel script is tiresome, SSC. Do you support isolating Israel from the world community until it abides by U.N. resolutions? I didn't think so.

Anyway, you forgot about cellphones, ICQ, umbrellas, printing presses, yoyos, green deserts, wristwatches, and the wheel, all of which were invented by Israelis, when they weren't busy building nuclear weapons.

Thanks for the reminder about what products are made in Israel, SS Canadian. Keep up the good work, I appreciate it.

I didn't know about Intel's Israeli connexion until a few months ago.  I looked all over my PC and don't see one of those "Intel Inside" stickers, which was a relief.   I do know that I'll keep my eye out for Intel content the next time I have to buy a computer.

It would be a lot to expect Americans would suddenly become that selfless but it would be nice if they would try complaining to their elected reperesentatives about their financing of illegal occupation and apartheid.  But waiting for Americans to do the right thing could take a very long time, their government was notoriously slow when it came to acting against Apartheid South Africa as well, so the BDS campaign is the best way to move forward for now.

The Israelis own Google?  Geez, there's more to this ZOG stuff than meets the eye.  Is "Google" code for "ZOGgle" or something?

Sure, but I (and would hope other people would) differentiate between ISRAEL and ISRAELIS. So, yes, I have no issue with isolating the political leadership of Israel (particularly if, as expected, we get a Likud govt supported by yisrael beteinu), pressuring them on their policies, cutting off foreign and military aid or excluding them from certain international groups until they change tehir behaviour. However, I would never endorse discrimination against INDIVIDUALS based on their country of citizenship - whether these individuals are tennis players, university professors or whatever. I'd also even be pretty weary about banning Israeli 'institutions' - whether they be a soccer team or a team of researchers from a state university - as soccer and most research have nothing to do with military aggression.

Step 1: Cut teh bullshit, isolate the wackos from the movement and don't do anything that could be even remotely construed as being based on hating Jews or anything else that's gonna cost you support from the vast majority of "mainstream, reasonable" Canadians. So, no targetting individuals based on country of origin. No rallies where you yell at people to 'go back to the oven', no chasing Jews around university campuses and forcing them to barricade themselves in the Hillel lounge, no waving Hamas flags, no anti-apartheid posters where you indicate that someone is jewish and/or israeli by a crude caricature of a guy with a hooked nose that could have come from der Strumer.

In a previous discussion on this topic, I compared the anti-israel movement with the Ontario Coalition Agaisnt Poverty. Now, OCAP has a lot of good and reasonable goals that many people can get behind - namely taking action to help people in poverty. it's less their GOALS than their TACTICS that ahve turned them into a amrginalized group that nobody takes seriously. I mean, I support msot of their goals. But I don't particualrly want to get involved with a group that marches through my parents neighbourhood, branding the residents as "scum" and yelling at people for trying to enjoy a drink in a restaurant.

Step 2: Recognize that the movement isn't gonna reach critical mass overnight and develop a longer-term strategy based on actually making reasonable arguments and building broad support. Pick reasonable, intelligent spokespeople and actually go about trying to educate people in an intellectual and honest manner. Build relationships with elected officials based on mutual respect so that you actually get a seat at a table (hint: calling them 'whores' doesn't help).

Step 3: Be patient. Change doesn't happen overnight but jsutice usually prevails in the end.

Let's say that's correct (I don't think so but jsut for arguments sake).

Your logic is: we cut out the anti-semitism and jew-baiting and it still didn't end the occupation, ergo, let's go back to doing the anti-semitism and jew-baiting?

Yes, it is ONE tennis tournament but so what? it's like saying that Arthur Ashe should ahve just shut the fuck up about not being allowed into SOME tournaments in Jim Crow states when he could still play OTHER tournaments...it's a red herring. Discrimiantion is discrimination, whether based on race or country of origin and whether something relatively benign like being barred from a tennis tournament or soemthing more serious like having your ability to leave your country restricted. I mean, before Canada legalized gay marriage,  it wouldn't have been right to tell gay people "oh quit whining. you get the same benefits, even if it means being treated as second class. hell, gays in Iran are HANGED! jsut take your seat at the back of the bus and be thankful you have a seat at all."

That might be an identifiable Syndrome, Unionist.

Why not?

In another thread someone discussed a Naomi Klien talk where she spoke about who frames the debate. Here is a good example. SSC is lecturing those opposed to Apartheid Israel on acceptable methods of protest. The jist is you can protest all you want, as long as it is ineffective and completely inoffensive to those whom you are protesting.

"Reasonable people" and other fantasies of subjective viewpoint. I thought you were some kind of "scientist".

"Framing" is dead on. Frame jobs such has creating a definition of anti-semitism that includes any criticism of Israel, whatsoever.

Sung to the tune of "Rah! Rah! Rasputin" by Bonnie M.

No. I don't. No more than I think that Zionism is anti-Arab. So, if you are going to ban Hamas flags (is there such a thing) we might as well ban the Israeli one too.

 Short of that we could just make up posters with the Star of David, using the signature blue colour used in the Israeli flag, and put a red line in a circle over it.

Looking forward to Benjamin Netanyahu's affirmation of his support for gay right in Israel, lover.

I can't say that I'm super familiar with netenyahu's social policies but my understanding was that he was quite secular. I know there was a scandal right before the election when a paper published a picture of him eating in a non-kosher restaurants on shabbos.

For someone criticizing Hamas' social policies, you'd think they knew about Likud's.

21% of Israeli exporters have been directly affected by the boycott movement since the beginning of 2009. So reports today (29 March) The Marker, a Hebrew-language economic newspaper.

This number is based on a poll of 90 Israeli exporters in fields such as high tech, metals, construction materials, chemistry, textile and foods. The poll was conducted in January-February 2009 by the Israeli Union of Industrialists.

It's nothing to do with the fact that Peace Now is a Zionist organization and a member of Canadian Jewish Congress, of course!

Naomi Klein takes the BDS campaign to the West Bank

Closing for length.