Boycott Israel (part 2)

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M. Spector M. Spector's picture

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M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Here's the [url=actual">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2009/01/international-writers-and-scholars... appeal[/url] for an academic and cultural boycott:

 

We stand in support of the indigenous Palestinian people in Gaza, who are fighting for their survival against one of the most brutal uses of state power in both this century and the last.

We condemn Israel’s recent (December 2008/ January 2009) breaches of international law in the Gaza Strip, which include the bombing of densely-populated neighborhoods, illegal deployment of the chemical white phosphorous, and attacks on schools, ambulances, relief agencies, hospitals, universities, and places of worship. We condemn Israel’s restriction of access to media and aid workers.

We reject as false Israel’s characterization of its military attacks on Gaza as retaliation. Israel’s latest assault on Gaza is part of its longtime racist jurisprudence against its indigenous Palestinian population, during which the Israeli state has systematically dispossessed, starved, tortured, and economically exploited the Palestinian people.

We reject as untrue the Israeli government’s claims that the Palestinians use civilians as human shields, and that Hamas is an irredeemable terrorist organization. Without endorsing its platforms or philosophy, we recognize Hamas as a democratically elected ruling party. We do not endorse the regime of any existing Arab state, and call for the upholding of internationally mandated human rights and democratic elections in all Arab states.

We call upon our fellow writers and academics in the United States to question discourses that justify and rationalize injustice, and to address Israeli assaults on civilians in Gaza as one of the most important moral issues of our time.

We call upon institutions of higher education in the U.S. to cut ties with Israeli academic institutions, dissolve study abroad programs in Israel, and divest institutional funds from Israeli companies, using the 1980s boycott against apartheid South Africa as a model.

We call on all people of conscience to join us in boycotting Israeli products and institutions until a just, democratic state for all residents of Palestine/Israel comes into existence.

Mohammed Abed
Elmaz Abinader
Diana Abu-Jaber
Ali Abunimah
Opal Palmer Adisa
Deborah Al-Najjar
Evelyn Azeeza Alsultany
Amina Baraka
Amiri Baraka
George Bisharat
Sherwin Bitsui
Breyten Breytenbach
Van Brock
Hayan Charara
Allison Hedge Coke
Lara Deeb
Vicente Diaz
Marilyn Hacker
Mechthild Hart
Sam Hamill
Randa Jarrar
Fady Joudah
Mohja Kahf
Rima Najjar Kapitan
Persis Karim
J. Kehaulani Kauanui
Haunani Kay-Trask
David Lloyd
Sunaina Maira
Nur Masalha
Khaled Mattawa
Daniel AbdalHayy Moore
Aileen Moreton-Robinson
Nadine Naber
Marcy Newman
Viet Nguyen
Simon J. Ortiz
Vijay Prashad
Steven Salaita
Therese Saliba
Sarita See
Deema Shehabi
Matthew Shenoda
Naomi Shihab Nye
Magid Shihade
Vandana Shiva
Noenoe Silva
Andrea Smith
Ahdaf Soueif
Ghada Talhami
Frank X. Walker
Robert Warrior

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Unionist wrote:

Here's the home page of the [url=U.S">http://usacbi.wordpress.com/][u]U.S. Campaign for the Academic & Cultural Boycott of Israel[/url].

ETA: What the hell have the web people been doing? My colour tags don't work any more... Is it not possible for them to be a little more transparent and announce changes as they effect them?????

There was a hidden problem with your coding. I don't know what it was, but I solved it in the above quote by "Cutting" the first sentence and then "Pasting" it back in, using the "T" button below the Comment box. That stripped out the hidden formatting codes that were interfering with your coding instructions.

Unionist

Here's the home page of the [url=U.S">http://usacbi.wordpress.com][u]U.S. Campaign for the Academic & Cultural Boycott of Israel[/url].

 

ETA: Thanks, M. Spector. In fact, I forgot to use my own trick of cutting the entire text and re-pasting back with the T icon.

 

 

 

Unionist

Not quite a "boycott", but maybe even better:

[url=Fans">http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/feb/28/tennis-israel-gaza-davis-cup... banned from Israel's Davis Cup tie in Malmo[/url]

Quote:

Instead of 4,000 noisy tennis spectators brought up on memories of Bjorn Borg and Stefan Edberg's on-court exploits in the Davis Cup, it now looks close to certain that Sweden's tie against Israel on Friday will go ahead in silence before just a handful of journalists and officials.

After a last-ditch attempt to switch the tennis match to Stockholm failed because of lack of time, spectators will be banned from the venue in Malmo for fear of anti-Israel protests. Ongoing attempts yesterday by Swedish tennis authorities and Davis Cup organisers decision to get the contentious decision reversed are considered unlikely to succeed.

The move by Malmo local authorities, overturning an earlier decision by the city's police force to allow the tie to go ahead in front of paying fans, has raised fears that the recent attacks on Gaza will continue to have ramifications for global sport and could set a worrying precedent.

 

Star Spangled C...

Are you applauding this, unionist? I find it appalling that a fucking tennis match is not even safe because of the antionality of some players.

A couple weeks back, a tennis tournament in Dubai barred an Israeli player from entering the country to compete solely based on her nationality. Thankfully, decent people like Andy Roddick refused to play in the tournament and the Tennis Network (that I subscribe to) refsued to broadcast it despite the millions in ad dollars they would lose. The tournament will be dropped from the tour next year. Glad to see my tennis community once again standing for what's right.

Star Spangled C...

Are you applauding this, unionist? I find it appalling that a fucking tennis match is not even safe because of the antionality of some players.

A couple weeks back, a tennis tournament in Dubai barred an Israeli player from entering the country to compete solely based on her nationality. Thankfully, decent people like Andy Roddick refused to play in the tournament and the Tennis Network (that I subscribe to) refsued to broadcast it despite the millions in ad dollars they would lose. The tournament will be dropped from the tour next year. Glad to see my tennis community once again standing for what's right.

Star Spangled C...

Or who knows, catchfire? Maybe city buses or pizza parlors or yeshivas full of students? What's your point? Because the Israeli government engages in objectionable actions, it's acceptable to discriminate against an israeli woman solely because of her nationality?

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

If a tennis match isn't even safe, what's next? Hospitals, schools and universities bombed in our own backyard?

ETA: apparently babble has boycotted unionist's posts, since his original post has been eaten by the new babble length-censor. You can still read it if you 'quote' his post, though. Only the truly devout shall be rewarded.

Unionist

Star Spangled Canadian wrote:

Are you applauding this, unionist?

Yes, indeed I am, why do you think I posted it?

Quote:
I find it appalling that a fucking tennis match is not even safe because of the antionality of some players.

 "Not even safe" is your creative concoction. The problem was fear of "anti-Israel protests". We know that Israelis are not accustomed to the freedom of assembly and speech, but to call this "unsafe" is a bit of an exaggeration. At worst, their eardrums might have burst and their minds and hearts might have opened up a bit.

In Israel, Gaza, the West Bank, Golan, Lebanon, however, we see real situations that are (to use your amusing words) "not even safe because of the nationality of some players". Playing in a schoolyard while Palestinian is definitely unsafe.

But I do feel sorry for your poor poor tennis players. Imagine the suffering. Think of their families. Their children. 

Unionist

[failed experiment - babble software at work]

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Quote:
Because the Israeli government engages in objectionable actions, it's acceptable to discriminate against an israeli woman solely because of her nationality?

Well, that's kind of the point of a boycott.

ETA: also, what does your allusions to Palestinian acts of resistance have to do with an anti-Israel protest in Malmö?

Star Spangled C...

Catchfire wrote:

 

Well, that's kind of the point of a boycott.

ETA: also, what does your allusions to Palestinian acts of resistance have to do with an anti-Israel protest in Malmö?

1) I thought the point of a boycott is to withold funds from companies or organziations that behave unethically. This woman has done nothing to deserve being boycotted nor has anyone suggested that anything other than her nationality has made her a target. She's not a representative of the government. She just wants to compete in a tournament. I can't think of any other athletes being subjected to boycotts despite many of them having done objectionable things as INDIVIDUALS. Hell, Kobe Bryant was credibly accused of RAPE but he can enter any tournament he wants and not have to worry. But someone with an Israeli passport gets banned. I'm proud that the tennis community that knocked down barriers for people like Arthur Ashe and Billy Jean King are not putting up with this shit.

2) Are you seriously refering to my mention of bombings of buses and piza parlors full of civilians and the cold-blooded massacre of students in a yeshiva as "acts of resistance"? Are you out of your fucking mind? These are acts of MURDER, not "resistance" and you've elimianted any shred of credibility you may have by suggesting otherwise.

Unionist

Star Spangled Canadian wrote:

I thought the point of a boycott is to withold funds from companies or organziations that behave unethically.

Have you gone through Lewis Carroll's rabbit hole? We're talking about boycotting ISRAEL. Get with the thread.

Quote:
This woman has done nothing to deserve being boycotted ...

No one is boycotting "this woman". If she were to join the Canadian or Greek national team, no one will hold her citizenship against her. But it's convenient for you to play the antisemitic card, isn't it?

 

Don't worry, though, the world is increasingly understanding the importance of treating Israel as an outlaw pariah state, even if the subtle distinctions appear to escape you.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

lol! Billy Jean King!

  The court is not out on Israel: they are a powerful nation committing war crimes. The only people who think otherwise are the fascist government in Israel, the people who voted for them and the ears they have in the United States. So your laughable Kobe Bryant reference is irrelevant. Athletes are representatives of the country. It's why South Africa was denied admission to the world cup and to the olympics. It's how boycotts work.

 As for your concern about my credibility, which is in reality a faux-rage, huffy dodge of a direct question, thank you. But I did not pass moral judgement on the acts of the Palestinian resistance--they may be murder, they may be immoral--I find these things get a bit complicated. Like my Irish friends who talk about the troubles. Ultimately, however, I didn't comment further on your diversionary tactics because a) they were diversionary and b) irrelevant to an anti-israel boycott.

Unionist

I'll try to reprint the disappeared OP here:

"Stop the massacre in Gaza - boycott Israel now!"

Quote:

Today, the Israeli occupation army committed a new massacre in Gaza, causing the death and injury of hundreds of Palestinian civilians, including a yet unknown number of school children who were headed home from school when the first Israeli military strikes started. This latest bloodbath, although far more ruthless than all its predecessors, is not Israel's first. It culminates months of an Israeli siege of Gaza that should be widely condemned and prosecuted as an act of genocide against the 1.5 million Palestinians in the occupied coastal strip.

Israel seems intent to mark the end of its 60th year of existence the same way it has established itself -- perpetrating massacres against the Palestinian people. In 1948, the majority of the indigenous Palestinian people were ethnically cleansed from their homes and land, partly through massacres like Deir Yassin; today, the Palestinians in Gaza, most of whom are refugees, do not even have the choice to seek refuge elsewhere. Incarcerated behind ghetto walls and brought to the brink of starvation by the siege, they are easy targets for Israel's indiscriminate bombing.

Prof. Richard Falk, the UN Special Rapporteur for Human Rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territory and international law expert at Princeton University, described Israel's siege of Gaza last year, when it was still not comparable in its severity to the current situation, as follows:

"Is it an irresponsible overstatement to associate the treatment of Palestinians with this criminalized Nazi record of collective atrocity? I think not. The recent developments in Gaza are especially disturbing because they express so vividly a deliberate intention on the part of Israel and its allies to subject an entire human community to life-endangering conditions of utmost cruelty. The suggestion that this pattern of conduct is a holocaust-in-the-making represents a rather desperate appeal to the governments of the world and to international public opinion to act urgently to prevent these current genocidal tendencies from culminating in a collective tragedy."

The most brutal episode of this "collective tragedy" is what we have seen today.

Israel's war crimes and other grave violations of international law in Gaza as well as in the rest of the occupied Palestinian territory, including Jerusalem, could not have been perpetrated without the direct or indirect complicity of world governments, particularly the United States, the European Union, Egypt, and other Arab regimes.

While the US government has consistently sponsored, bankrolled and protected from international censure Israel's apartheid and colonial policies against the indigenous people of Palestine, the EU was able in the past to advocate a semblance of respect for international law and universal human rights. That distinction effectively ended on 9 December, when the EU Council decided unanimously to reward Israel's criminal disregard of international law by upgrading the EU-Israel Association Agreement. Israel clearly understood from this decision that the EU condones its actions against the Palestinians under its occupation. Palestinian civil society also got the message: the EU governments have become no less complicit in Israel's war crimes than their US counterpart.

The large majority of world governments, particularly in the global south, share part of the blame, as well. By continuing business as usual with Israel, in trade agreements, arms deals, academic and cultural ties, diplomatic openings, they have provided the necessary background for the complicity of world powers and, consequentially, for Israel's impunity. Furthermore, their inaction within the United Nations is inexcusable.

Father Miguel D'Escoto Brockman, President of the UN General Assembly prescribed in a recent address before the Assembly the only moral way forward for the world's nations in dealing with Israel:

"More than 20 years ago we in the United Nations took the lead from civil society when we agreed that sanctions were required to provide a nonviolent means of pressuring South Africa to end its violations. Today, perhaps we in the United Nations should consider following the lead of a new generation of civil society, who are calling for a similar nonviolent campaign of boycott, divestment and sanctions to pressure Israel to end its violations."

Now, more than ever, the Palestinian Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions National Committee, BNC, calls upon international civil society not just to protest and condemn in diverse forms Israel's massacre in Gaza, but also to join and intensify the international Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) campaign against Israel to end its impunity and to hold it accountable for its persistent violation of international law and Palestinian rights. Without sustained, effective pressure by people of conscience the world over, Israel will continue with its gradual, rolling acts of genocide against the Palestinians, burying any prospects for a just peace under the blood and rubble of Gaza, Nablus and Jerusalem.

The Palestinian BDS National Committee (BNC) includes: Council of National and Islamic Forces in Palestine; General Union of Palestinian Workers; Palestinian General Federation of Trade Unions; Palestinian Non-Governmental Organizations' Network (PNGO); Federation of Independent Trade Unions; Union of Palestinian Charitable Organizations; Global Palestine Right of Return Coalition; Occupied Palestine and Golan Heights Advocacy Initiative (OPGAI); General Union of Palestinian Women; Palestinian Farmers Union (PFU); Grassroots Palestinian Anti-Apartheid Wall Campaign (STW); Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel (PACBI); National Committee to Commemorate the Nakba; Civic Coalition for the Defense of Palestinian Rights in Jerusalem (CCDPRJ); Coalition for Jerusalem; and Palestinian Economic Monitor.

Comments and ideas are welcome as to how Canadians can support this international movement.

 

 

 

 

Star Spangled C...

Unionist wrote:

No one is boycotting "this woman". If she were to join the Canadian or Greek national team, no one will hold her citizenship against her. But it's convenient for you to play the antisemitic card, isn't it?

There is no "team". It's an ATP tour. Everyone competes as an individual or with one partner in teh case of doubles (partners who do not ahve to be from the same country). Their nationality doesn't come in to play. Federer isn't representing Switzerland, Nadal isn't representing Spain, the Williams sisters aren't representing the USA.  They are all competing as individual athletes. If they're shilling for anyone, it's Nike, not their respective governments. So, yes, "this woman" IS being barred for her nationality, which is appalling. And I have yet to hear the policy defended by any professional tennis player.

Unionist

Sorry, SSC, I guess I mixed up the Dubai incident with the one I posted about in Sweden.

I have no comment on Dubai's exclusion of some individual. I don't know the circumstances or why they did it. They may well have done it for the most barbaric and feudal motives, so I apologize if I appeared to defend the actions of some little U.S. ally.

My interest is in getting Canada and Canadians to boycott Israel, to divest, and to apply sanctions

 

 

Star Spangled C...

Catchfire wrote:

 Athletes are representatives of the country. It's why South Africa was denied admission to the world cup and to the olympics. It's how boycotts work.

 But I did not pass moral judgement on the acts of the Palestinian resistance--they may be murder, they may be immoral--I find these things get a bit complicated.

1) this isn't a tournament where people compete on behalf of "teams" like in the Olympics or World Cup. She's tehre as an individual who happens to hold Israeli citizenship. If I were to be in teh tournament, I wouldn't be representing canada, the harper government or any of our specific policies or actions. just myself.

 

2) by referring to acts which are clearly murder as part of the Palestinian "resistance", you ARE passing judgment on them. Is it really worth debating whether entering a yeshiva with a gun and shooting as many students as possible as they sat and studied is an act of "resistance"? If Paul bernardo or Clifford Olson portrayed their atrocities as 'resistance' would you withhold "passing judgment' on them? What gets "complicated" about condemning walking into a school and shooting people? Are you willing to "pass judgment" on the shooter at the Montreal Massacre? Virginia Tech? Columbine? Are these "complicated acts of resitance" or "cold-blooded murder"?

Cueball Cueball's picture

Again, the issue is the comparison to the boycott imposed against South Africa.

 Lets make this clear, there were two boycott's against South Africa. One, and official one sanctioned by the CW and the UN, and another one, practiced by the non-governmental sector, and private individuals, and the impact of these "civil" boycott's varied depending on the country, and individuals who concerned citizens deemed to be representing South Africa, were defintely made the target of anti-Apartheid activists.

Further, the extent of these civil boycotts included direct action and civil disturbances, aimed at directly preventing organizers of public events from supporting and promoting South African individuals. The arguement that there is some kind of clear distinction between individuals representing a country officially, and those who "just happen" to hold Israeli citizenship is "arguable" at the very extreme extent of prevarication to the extent where such an arguement could also be made about "official" representatives, and is therefore obviously tendentious.

al-Qa'bong

Do those who get so worked up about a boycott of a tennis match become equally upset knowing that Israel is imposing an embargo on, well, FOOD, on Gaza?

 

In the face of their starvation blockade on Palestinians, we cannot boycott Israelis enough.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Star Spangled Canadian wrote:
2) by referring to acts which are clearly murder as part of the Palestinian "resistance", you ARE passing judgment on them. Is it really worth debating whether entering a yeshiva with a gun and shooting as many students as possible as they sat and studied is an act of "resistance"? If Paul bernardo or Clifford Olson portrayed their atrocities as 'resistance' would you withhold "passing judgment' on them? What gets "complicated" about condemning walking into a school and shooting people? Are you willing to "pass judgment" on the shooter at the Montreal Massacre? Virginia Tech? Columbine? Are these "complicated acts of resitance" or "cold-blooded murder"?

Those persons are not "officially" representing Palestinians, they just "happen" to be Palestinians. Smile

Star Spangled C...

I don't think it's very 'arguable" cueball that someone who "just happens" to hold a certain citizenship could be construed as representing a country...particularly through an action such as playing tennis and particularly if they hold no official position with that country's government. I used to play competitive tennis. When I played in college, I was definitely representing the university of Virginia since I was competng on their behalf in official college tournaments, wearing their insignia on my clothing and bag and my results would be tallied with other players from UVA to determine overall school standings. Because I'm a Canadian citizen, can i also be construed as representing Canada in those tournaments? Of course not. If I were good enough to turn pro and make it to Wimbledon, would I be representing Canada? Again, no.

If you're gonna boycott individuals, do so based on their views or actions not their race, religion, sexual orientation or country of origin. I find it very curious that the only example I can think of in recent memory of an individual athlete being targetted like this is not someone accused of rape or convicted of assault or who brought an unregistered and loaded handgun into a club and accidentally shot himself. No, those guys are all fine. hell, they'll get million dollar deals to sell shoes to kids cause they're such great role models. But if you have an Israeli passport, THAT is what crosses the line? There's a word for that. (Hint: it's hypenated).

Star Spangled C...

Cueball wrote:

Those persons are not "officially" representing Palestinians, they just "happen" to be Palestinians. Smile

Exactly. So if a tournament tried to ban a Palestinian athlete because people of the same nationality committed atrocities it would be entirely inappropriate. Also, yes, they are not acting "as palestinians" anymore than paul bernardo was acting "as a canadian". people who committ appalling acts should never get the moral cover of participating in some sort of "resistance' as a way to excuse murder or have people "withold judgment" from their actions.

Unionist

SSC, your finicky argumentation might be taken more seriously if in fact you supported isolating the criminal pariah state of Israel.

As it is, it's rather hard to discuss tactical issues with someone who viscerally opposes the overall strategy.

 

Star Spangled C...

al-Qa'bong wrote:

Do those who get so worked up about a boycott of a tennis match become equally upset knowing that Israel is imposing an embargo on, well, FOOD, on Gaza?

No one is suggesting that not being allowed to compete in a tennis tournament is the greatest injsutice in the history of the world. But it's injsutice nonetheless. When African American baseball players were barred from the major leagues and consigned to the "negro leagues" there were certainly greater examples of racial discrimination. Not being allowed to be a professional baseball player was hardly the WORST thing that people faced. But it was still utterly indefensible and appalling that people should be excluded and marginalized and treated as "other' in such a way and decent people were still compelled to speak out against it.

Unionist

I was wondering whether anyone who opposes the criminal behaviour of the state of Israel has any views on how we can help implement the call of the Palestinian civil society for boycott, divestment, and sanctions?

 

al-Qa'bong

Quote:
No one is suggesting that not being allowed to compete in a tennis tournament is the greatest injsutice in the history of the world. But it's injsutice nonetheless.

 

You obviously don't see the connexion between boycotting Israel and trying to end the oppression of Palestinians.

 

I suppose if you insist on seeing Israelis as the exclusive eternal victims, there isn't much to say that will change your attitude.

Star Spangled C...

Unionist wrote:

SSC, your finicky argumentation might be taken more seriously if in fact you supported isolating the criminal pariah state of Israel.

As it is, it's rather hard to discuss tactical issues with someone who viscerally opposes the overall strategy.

 

Well, I don't think building a critical mass consensus is possible until you educate the general public to the point that they'll support it. Boycotting South Africa was possible because you would be hard-pressed to find any respectable individual willing to defend their apartheid. That is not the case with Israel today and when we see reactionary actions like barring tennis players, it only creates a backlash and sympathy.

How far do you want to take the boycott? what are you personally willing to give up? Do you use Google? Google searches run on an Israeli-designed algorithim. Intel processors in your PC? They were developed and, in some cases, manufactured in Israel. Do you use instant messaging? Guess where that was invented? We're not jsut talking about giving up Granny Smith apples here.

Unionist

Your Israel script is tiresome, SSC. Do you support isolating Israel from the world community until it abides by U.N. resolutions? I didn't think so.

Anyway, you forgot about cellphones, ICQ, umbrellas, printing presses, yoyos, green deserts, wristwatches, and the wheel, all of which were invented by Israelis, when they weren't busy building nuclear weapons.

 

Star Spangled C...

Well, msot would indicate that their nuclear weapons were provided by the USA and paid for by taxpayers, of which I am one. Should I quit my job and give up my income so as not to pay taxes and contribute foreign military aid to Israel? You also didn't answer whether you're willing to be consistent in your boycott by not using Google searches or Intel chips. Or would that be too uncomfortable and the BSD movement would rather just discrimate against obscure athletes?

al-Qa'bong

Thanks for the reminder about what products are made in Israel, SS Canadian. Keep up the good work, I appreciate it.

 

I didn't know about Intel's Israeli connexion until a few months ago.  I looked all over my PC and don't see one of those "Intel Inside" stickers, which was a relief.   I do know that I'll keep my eye out for Intel content the next time I have to buy a computer.

Star Spangled C...

Do you have a Mac? I'm not sure about macs but virtually any PC you buy will run on Intel pentium or Centrino chips. i take it you won't use Google now either? I imagine the Google guys are jsut shaking in their sprawling headquarters in palo alto as they count their billions of dollars.

melovesproles

Quote:
Well, msot would indicate that their nuclear weapons were provided by the USA and paid for by taxpayers, of which I am one. Should I quit my job and give up my income so as not to pay taxes and contribute foreign military aid to Israel?

It would be a lot to expect Americans would suddenly become that selfless but it would be nice if they would try complaining to their elected reperesentatives about their financing of illegal occupation and apartheid.  But waiting for Americans to do the right thing could take a very long time, their government was notoriously slow when it came to acting against Apartheid South Africa as well, so the BDS campaign is the best way to move forward for now.

Unionist

SSC, you have a lot of trouble with this question:

Do you support isolating Israel from the world community until it abides by U.N. resolutions?

So, I put it in slightly larger type, just in case your made-in-Israel monitor is on the fritz.

You'll notice that you're in the "activism" thread. This is for people that are actually a little bit upset with Israel's mass murders, apartheid, and aggression, and would like to discuss how to stop it. I can understand why you would feel out of place. But don't let me keep you, if you have better things to do elsewhere.

 

al-Qa'bong

The Israelis own Google?  Geez, there's more to this ZOG stuff than meets the eye.  Is "Google" code for "ZOGgle" or something?

Unionist

al-Qa'bong wrote:
The Israelis own Google? Geez, there's more to this ZOG stuff than meets the eye. Is "Google" code for "ZOGgle" or something?

If you absolutely swear not to tell anyone, the Google conspiracy is laid bare [url=here[/url]">http://elgoog.rb-hosting.de/index.cgi]here[/url]. I've had to write it in code, of course...

 

Star Spangled C...

Unionist wrote:

Do you support isolating Israel from the world community until it abides by U.N. resolutions?

Sure, but I (and would hope other people would) differentiate between ISRAEL and ISRAELIS. So, yes, I have no issue with isolating the political leadership of Israel (particularly if, as expected, we get a Likud govt supported by yisrael beteinu), pressuring them on their policies, cutting off foreign and military aid or excluding them from certain international groups until they change tehir behaviour. However, I would never endorse discrimination against INDIVIDUALS based on their country of citizenship - whether these individuals are tennis players, university professors or whatever. I'd also even be pretty weary about banning Israeli 'institutions' - whether they be a soccer team or a team of researchers from a state university - as soccer and most research have nothing to do with military aggression.

Unionist

Star Spangled Canadian wrote:
Unionist wrote:

Do you support isolating Israel from the world community until it abides by U.N. resolutions?

Sure,...

Excellent. Then the question becomes, what steps can we and should we take, now, as Canadians, to make that happen?

 

Star Spangled C...

Step 1: Cut teh bullshit, isolate the wackos from the movement and don't do anything that could be even remotely construed as being based on hating Jews or anything else that's gonna cost you support from the vast majority of "mainstream, reasonable" Canadians. So, no targetting individuals based on country of origin. No rallies where you yell at people to 'go back to the oven', no chasing Jews around university campuses and forcing them to barricade themselves in the Hillel lounge, no waving Hamas flags, no anti-apartheid posters where you indicate that someone is jewish and/or israeli by a crude caricature of a guy with a hooked nose that could have come from der Strumer.

In a previous discussion on this topic, I compared the anti-israel movement with the Ontario Coalition Agaisnt Poverty. Now, OCAP has a lot of good and reasonable goals that many people can get behind - namely taking action to help people in poverty. it's less their GOALS than their TACTICS that ahve turned them into a amrginalized group that nobody takes seriously. I mean, I support msot of their goals. But I don't particualrly want to get involved with a group that marches through my parents neighbourhood, branding the residents as "scum" and yelling at people for trying to enjoy a drink in a restaurant.

Step 2: Recognize that the movement isn't gonna reach critical mass overnight and develop a longer-term strategy based on actually making reasonable arguments and building broad support. Pick reasonable, intelligent spokespeople and actually go about trying to educate people in an intellectual and honest manner. Build relationships with elected officials based on mutual respect so that you actually get a seat at a table (hint: calling them 'whores' doesn't help).

Step 3: Be patient. Change doesn't happen overnight but jsutice usually prevails in the end.

Star Spangled C...

Let's say that's correct (I don't think so but jsut for arguments sake).

Your logic is: we cut out the anti-semitism and jew-baiting and it still didn't end the occupation, ergo, let's go back to doing the anti-semitism and jew-baiting?

Cueball Cueball's picture

Star Spangled Canadian wrote:

Step 1: Cut teh bullshit, isolate the wackos from the movement and don't do anything that could be even remotely construed as being based on hating Jews or anything else that's gonna cost you support from the vast majority of "mainstream, reasonable" Canadians. So, no targetting individuals based on country of origin. No rallies where you yell at people to 'go back to the oven', no chasing Jews around university campuses and forcing them to barricade themselves in the Hillel lounge, no waving Hamas flags, no anti-apartheid posters where you indicate that someone is jewish and/or israeli by a crude caricature of a guy with a hooked nose that could have come from der Strumer.

Been tried already. The response was to make any critcism of Israel anti-semitic by definition and define it that way in dictionary.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Tell you what. Why don't you let me tell you "what my logic is" and you can tell me yours. Fair?

 

Now we have idiots constantly muddying up the waters of what is a pretty cut and dried human rights issue, not unlike many other cut and dried human rights issues, with constant debates about the form of opposition, and optics.

Blah blah. Bullshit.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Quote:

What has priority: that a person is not barred from playing a game or that Palestinians are not barred from living in peace and dignity? Does justice for Peer, the individual, take precedence over the fate of an entire people? Peer has an opportunity, few people are so meaningfully presented in life, to sacrifice her love of playing tennis to bring attention to the plight of an oppressed people. Her silence about the plight of Gazans and her right to play tennis speak loudly....

What is a fundamental principle that favors the tennis playing rights of a woman while a people are slaughtered, even though she is not the slaughterer or that athletes from a nation that is a serial violator of international laws, practices open racism, carries out slow-motion genocide, and commits wanton violations of human rights with impunity are prevented from playing to stop the war crimes?

[url=Kim">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/when-sports-trump-human-rights/][c... Petersen[/url]

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Quote:

1. The star tennis player joined the Israeli military in 2005 and went through basic training.

2. Her induction was used for PR purposes by the military.

3. She served in the "IDF program for outstanding athletes."

4. The Israeli military is a belligerent occupying force that has violated international law consistently in various forms since its inception.

5. By willingly serving and putting her public image to the military's use, she abetted violations of international law.

6. The Israeli military recently killed more than 1000 Palestinians, the majority of whom were civilians.

7. There is an active, organized boycott movement that makes clear demands and is part of a political program. It was launched by Palestinian civil society in 2005.

8. She has shown no understanding for why people would be angry to see a former IDF soldier after the Gaza offensive. Her statement claims she is a victim of discrimination. She has not made any comment regarding the immobility of Palestinian athletes living under the occupation forces she served for.

She also claimed it is an "injustice," without any sense of irony for what upsets people about seeing her play -- to call missing a tennis tournament after the massacre perpetrated by the military she served perpetrated is a farce.

This is the kind of rank hypocrisy boycott movements MUST be directed towards -- this is the double standard that privileges Israel over the Palestinians and maintains its cruel occupation, dispossession, and robbery of them.

[url=Source[/url]">http://www.kabobfest.com/2009/02/it-is-just-to-boycott-shahar-peer.html]...

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Quote:

[url=The">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/16/sports/tennis/16araton.html][=med... New York Times[/][/url] and Shahar Peer both weep at the denial of any Israeli to compete in just one tournament. But does the Times and this self-entitled tennis player have any sympathy for those Palestinians denied to play in any tournament by Israel? Where is the Times’ self-righteous indignation for those Palestinians denied permission to leave the West Bank to they can compete? Zionist fanatics even launched an effort to prohibit the Palestinians from marching in the Olympics under their flag. They, the Zionist zealots, argued that allowing the Palestinians to march under their flag would be an endorsement by the International Olympic Committee of Palestinian sovereignty. At least Shahar Peer gets to compete somewhere. The Times’ sports columnist calls for a Dubai boycott; would he ever call for an Israel boycott because Israel doesn’t allows dozens of Palestinians the right to compete not only in overseas games but in Israeli games? No, of course they wouldn’t. For the Times, their sympathy extends only to one people due to their racism against Arabs.

[url=Source[/url]">http://marcovilla.instablogs.com/entry/the-ny-times-israeli-athlete-and-...

Cueball Cueball's picture

Basically.

Star Spangled C...

Yes, it is ONE tennis tournament but so what? it's like saying that Arthur Ashe should ahve just shut the fuck up about not being allowed into SOME tournaments in Jim Crow states when he could still play OTHER tournaments...it's a red herring. Discrimiantion is discrimination, whether based on race or country of origin and whether something relatively benign like being barred from a tennis tournament or soemthing more serious like having your ability to leave your country restricted. I mean, before Canada legalized gay marriage,  it wouldn't have been right to tell gay people "oh quit whining. you get the same benefits, even if it means being treated as second class. hell, gays in Iran are HANGED! jsut take your seat at the back of the bus and be thankful you have a seat at all."

Unionist

Has Stockholm been giving lessons in posting style?

 

Caissa

That might be an identifiable Syndrome, Unionist. Wink

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