Neo-Nazi Rally Planned for Vancouver March 21
Neo Nazi Rally Planned for Vancouver March 21
http://mostlywater.org/neonazi_rally_planned_vancouver_area_two_articles
"The activist group No One is Illegal - Vancouver is preparing to confront what it says is a neo-Nazi rally being planned for March 21, the International Day for the Elimination of Racist Discrimination...The white-pride rally will start at 11:00 AM at the Braid Sky Train Station in New Westminster. Anti-racist protesters will gather at the same location..."
Comments
I meant "crush" in the purely culinary sense, and likewise with "smash". I'm so disappointed that you see military metaphors where others detect only fine cuisine.
nice retort :)
I meant "crush" in the purely culinary sense, and likewise with "smash". I'm so disappointed that you see military metaphors where others detect only fine cuisine.
nice retort :)
Re torte, you can't do better than a good Canadian Chocolate espresso.
Well, now I think we ought to dispense with the word "Canadian" don't you? It's woefully ethnocentric and unashamedly uninclusive.
While it is referred to as a chocolate (English) espresso (Italian) torte (French?) it may appear Canadian on the surface but does it really represent all Canadians?
a look at the ingrediants reveals the following:
cocoa (native Americans), potato starch (that's the Irish covered), coffee (Latin Americans), cinnamon (native to the Indian subcontinent), salt (possibly first used by the Chinese), margarine (French again).
But, the apparent inclusiveness of c.e.t. is negated by it's lack of any African or Middle Eastern ingrediants, and as there are Canadians from those regions, I put it to you that "Canadian" in this context is EuroAmericoSinoNativeCentric and should be abandoned.
"You're wrong about potatoes. They aren't irish."
I know that. Thanks, though.
Now isn't that fabrication cute. Apparently you decided to overlook the link detailing what white supremists affliations the organizer had.
Now..here you see is where you first went wrong in your thought processes. A diversion that took you into sllyland and beyond....which interestingly you do recognize yourself, or you would not have mentioned that it sounds silly. Apparently only liking to hear the sound of your own voice, or if not that, you are failing to move beyond thought terminating indoctrination that has no resemblance to truth.
White people, mainly men, have been playing identity politics, expertly well, for long enough. Even to the point where some like yourself apparently believe whites are the "majority" population of the world. Here is your first clue to grabbing a brain, white people are not the majority, not even close. However, white men have been the winners of the identity politics game, by keeping the playing field unlevel. Or you could say cheating by mass murder and design. So, you could say white men set the rules, and now wieners, such as yourself, are whinning that everyone else has decided to play to win too.
Now because of the facts above, as opposed to your internalized distortion of truth, the following sentence of yours indicates what a real lack wit you are:
No, white men in their colonialist endeavors created the most recent differences betweens humans, in order to exploit both the peoples and their lands. Apparently, in their stupidity, they did not realize that by creating groups based upon an imposed identity, they would more firmly entrench a differing identity than that of the "white male". So in actual fact, they/we are your product and you have to live with us.
This has got not a thing to do with "the Left" other than your, and others, wanting to incorrectly shift the blame off of white men's historical actions.
Also, given your wife is a pyschiatrist, down on the lower mainland of BC, and you are immigrants to Canada, I would suggest that your American education has a few significant shortfallings and you would do well to fill in the gap. And one hopes your wife does not share your ill-informed perspectives.
Wow, heavy stuff for a Sunday, Remind.
First off, Identity politics is a Western thing, and yes, in the "Western world", white people are a majority. If you identify them as "white", that is - I've only ever been called 'white' by other people, never myself, so I consider it an imposed label. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to accept that nobody thinks white people are the world-wide majority!
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about - 'white men' may have made the rules (of Western liberal democracy at least), but they are not 'white' rules, they are for everyone, and everybody plays them with a huge amount of success - but 'whites-only' ideology is very small and insignificant and is hardly a political force. Marches like these are best ignored, they are not the viewpoint of the majority and if they speak SOME truth to Some people, it's only because of the loony policies of leftists.
Your North-American centric worldview is working against you here. In Europe, where most "white people" live, they think of themselves as Irish, Welsh, whatever - not "white", that's a New World thing - and white males are highly competitive with one another and do not think of themselves/ourselves as an identity group.
Once you think in terms of interest-groups, don't be surprised if a minority of those you vilify so much start to think in those terms too (what you think of as White Supremacists).
"We" don't think of ourselves as a group.
Your comment reveal that you have no understand of history or culture - "white men" created the differences between humans??? Who is the White Supremacist now? What you are saying is that only white people are historical actors - the rest are just window dressing, incapable of thinking for themselves and developing their own prejudices. While we 'whiteys' were busy living in caves, colonialism, slavery and oppression already existed in the world!
And, incidentally, nobody wants to shift the blame from the wrongs of the past, we are more interested in righting them. and creating group-blame and re-writing history, and allowing our own personal hatreds and neuroses to dictate our interpretation of history will not have the desired effect.
Good grief, I cannot imagine the harm your wife is doing......
...and I am not going to respond further to your white supremists superiority blatherings, there is absolutely no point.
In fact, will ask the mods if they think someone taking the white supremist anti-progressive position you are taking, belongs at rabble....given the rules you were supposed to ascribe to when you signed up.
Holy crap. More apologetics.
I'me really trying to give you the benefit of the doubt dude and read this in a way that is not suggesting that people go supremy through no fault of their own (ie the 'lefts fault) but yeah it's sure coming off that way.
I never realized 'the left' holds that much power and mind control over people. Whaza! Boom we got yah.
I wonder if " 'the left' made me hate this way' would hold up in a court of law as a defense.
Will you NOT bring my family into it?
If the only way you can discuss something is with cheap tricks, insults, and ignoring what another person actually says, then what are YOU even doing on this forum? or any forum? you are clearly not qualified to even use a computer, Remind.
Do you even bother reading comments, or just type the same responses out with the same, tired old catchphrases?
You'll not be happy to just go and protest this march, you'll go and bleat about fascists and try to 'ban' it, even though they're a bunch of idiots whom everyone will ignore until you start making a fuss over them, and yet you'll ignore the REAL fascists, like the pro-Palestinian/anti-Israel demonstrators and the anti-free speechers. Fascism wears many cloaks, Remind. Don't get caught on the wrong side.
Oh great, now there's a bad smell coming from the kitchen. Really bad.
Does anyone recall which days they collect the non-recyclable garbage around here?
Can we get back to smashing fascism potatoes?
with pleasure...
Well, ElizaQ, I sincerely hope no-one will ever be brought to court for "hating"! If they - or anyone else- do something violent, or threaten violence, arrest them. Otherwise, thought (however bad) is not a crime - yet.
Thanks Viking.
I know that. It was a metaphorical point.
Anyways I want to apologize for my comments. Can't help it. "Rightest" policies made me do it.
ElizaQ, you're free to apologize (though I don't know why), but I would have a hard time apologizing to anyone who just said this:
Now, this comment as well as others, are threats and warnings, all at the same time. Moreover, it is quite apparent you are inciting "race wars"
And I will bring your wife into it each and every time you state something like this, as you stated you control her practise and her. Thus you, a person who holds racist ideologies are practising psychiatry in my province, as you even took ownership of her educational attainment.
ETA: Did you really think if you did not post here for a while that people would forget these formerly challenged comments and actions of yours?
Mmm-mmm-good!
Ingredients to use:
1.0 oz 
Lime juice
1.0 oz dry Vermouth
2.0 oz OVAL Vodka
Directions:
Stir liquids with ice then strain into a cocktail glass. Garnish with a celery stalk and a cucumber spear. Serve immediately.
Now, this comment as well as others, are threats and warnings, all at the same time. Moreover, it is quite apparent you are inciting "race wars"
And I will bring your wife into it each and every time you state something like this, as you stated you control her practise and her. And even took ownership of her educational attainment.
"race wars"???? Jesus. I can't even respond to that.
You accuse me of threatening you now, after you subtly mention my location and wife's occupation in - what? - some attempt to "out" me?
and the last comment is not even worth a response.
Now, this comment as well as others, are threats and warnings, all at the same time. Moreover, it is quite apparent you are inciting "race wars"
"race wars"???? Jesus. I can't even respond to that.
Good, don't waste your breath. Your illustrious history on babble for discussing race speaks for itself.
me too, and where are the mods?
This one is pretty simple Viking. It has nothing to do with some sort of different leftie speak.
It's just a play on the arguement you've made at least twice now that has justified white supremists existing as a result of the left. You even said basically their existence is because of as I quote' loonie leftist policies'. They are the lefts 'products'
So yeah to be clear I am mocking that argument which basically read in a nutshell, 'lefts fault, if the left wasn't loony they wouldn't exists, it's not really there fault." eg The left made me do it.
Now benefit of the doubt time here, if this isn't what your intending to say here then I suggest that you go back and really think about it because this is the way it's coming across. I will also point out as someone who actually has had dealings with white supremist and white pride people that this sort of reasoning is EXACTLY the sort of reasoning that comes out of their mouths. If only those 'bleeding heart libs (or versions of that) didn't do this I would HAVE to be these way. Unlike some here I have not come straight out and suggested that you by any means subscribe to this POV. Do yourself a favour if you don't because as unintentional as might be your sounding a hella of lot like them when you make arguements like this.
so what - 'fascists' is your word and you don't like it when other people use it?
anyway, as j.m. says I've been railroaded on the subject of race before, so I'm staying off of that one. For good.
I can't debate anyone who a) can only see the world in two dimensions, like Flatland, and b) cannot understand an opposing view because words from anyone who differs in opinion just come across as "rightwingrightwingrightwingrightwing", the blinkers come on and the standard learnt-by-heart responses pop out.
yesterday while watching Canadian women lose at curling, I made, what I think is a beautiful, hair ornament for holding long hair up in a contained unit. It is made from pale pink and mauve quartz, brass, and mother of pearl, beads. Going to make another one out of wood beads today.
what prompted this activity, was that I cleaned out my kitchen drawers and found a bunch of lacquered chop sticks, that had some chips in the lacquere.
anyway, as j.m. says I've been railroaded on the subject of race before, so I'm staying off of that one. For good.
seems to me you are more than happy to railroad yourself into race issues.
and didn't you just take a shot at race issues yesterday by questioning how racism exists against muslims in canada?
BTW if you are in Toronto next weekend I cordially invite you to the following:
ElizaQ, that's a shame, but I see exactly what you're saying.
True, defending freedom of expression can make people think you're on the side of those you are defending, even when you don't agree with them. I've repeatedly given my opinion on those (non-) marchers and I too have had some experience with that sort. I approve of protest, but when protest is about banning something, its not protest, it's a campaign.
You can mock all you like, why else do these groups exist? They just hate for hate's sake is not a satisfactory answer. And whether or not they are a reaction to leftist policies object to, does not preclude those policies from having been reactions to other policies! People are not robots, and to take your example, they can't blame their violence on others 'making' them that way. Aren't there any policies around that YOU don't like? If so, do those policies MAKE you hate them? Or are you just reacting to them and trying to change them?
No, j.m. it's a subject that holds little interest as I don't really think in those terms - and I don't think anyone responded to that question about muslims being a race!
But what's with all the potato cracks? is it really an attempt to poke fun at the Irish? or just a coincidence?
No, j.m. it's a subject that holds little interest as I don't really think in those terms - and I don't think anyone responded to that question about muslims being a race!
But what's with all the potato cracks? is it really an attempt to poke fun at the Irish? or just a coincidence?
I know you don't think race applies. This is why the Anti-Racism 101 2.0 thread failed.
Remember this little gem?
http://www.rabble.ca/comment/1104416/So-best-best
And yes, people did respond to you.
As for the potato cracks, you still don't get it. That's because being euro-centric causes myopia or blindness. At least potatoes can grow eyes.
And despite their thin skins, they're still somewhat appeeling.
Mmm-mmm-good!
Ingredients to use:
1.0 oz Lime juice
1.0 oz dry Vermouth
2.0 oz OVAL Vodka
Directions:
Stir liquids with ice then strain into a cocktail glass. Garnish with a celery stalk and a cucumber spear. Serve immediately.
And they are a necessary ingredient in the making of a Screaming Viking.
ElizaQ, that's a shame, but I see exactly what you're saying.
True, defending freedom of expression can make people think you're on the side of those you are defending, even when you don't agree with them. I've repeatedly given my opinion on those (non-) marchers and I too have had some experience with that sort. I approve of protest, but when protest is about banning something, its not protest, it's a campaign.
You can mock all you like, why else do these groups exist? They just hate for hate's sake is not a satisfactory answer. And whether or not they are a reaction to leftist policies object to, does not preclude those policies from having been reactions to other policies! People are not robots, and to take your example, they can't blame their violence on others 'making' them that way. Aren't there any policies around that YOU don't like? If so, do those policies MAKE you hate them? Or are you just reacting to them and trying to change them?
I said absolutely nothing about defending freedom or expression or that your defence of their freedom of expression makes one seem like they're supporting them. I'm also not sure where people were suggesting a ban on them rallying. If so I missed it. Regardless this has nothing to do with any of my comments. As far as I am concerned they have a right to march and a right to rally but what they don't have is a right to do that in an arena without any pushback. Freedom of speech does not imply to speak and have other people shut up about it.
Well for one your making a huge assumption that it's only 'leftist policies' they are reacting too. Last I checked in both the US and Canada there is no carte blanche left right divide in policies that effect minorities meaning both right and left policies affect minorities. Now were could get into and debate about with side is better for minorities, that could go on all day. It's beside the point to it's the lefts fault argument you've made here.
Do you not realize that in order for your 'carte blache' arguement to follow through logically, that you are saying or implying that right wing policies are okay for racists and supremists? Do you understand what that suggests here? Do you understand that by attacking leftie positions as THE REASON (carte blanche) that you're actually condeming all rightie policies? I personally don't think your intending to do that but regardless you are even if it's accidental on your part. That's actually the supreme irony (pun intended) here since you self identify as a rightie. So yeah, sorry, I do find that kind of funny ironic.
Try looking at the creation of the supremist phenomenon without your partisan right/ left blinkers on. Then maybe you'll get to understand what drives people like that. Not everything in this world fits into some sort of right, left position at it's starting point. Racism and white supremicy does not just stop at some sort right left divide. Though rarer it seems, left leaning supremists do exist.
ElizaQ, that's a shame, but I see exactly what you're saying.
True, defending freedom of expression can make people think you're on the side of those you are defending, even when you don't agree with them. I've repeatedly given my opinion on those (non-) marchers and I too have had some experience with that sort. I approve of protest, but when protest is about banning something, its not protest, it's a campaign.
You can mock all you like, why else do these groups exist? They just hate for hate's sake is not a satisfactory answer. And whether or not they are a reaction to leftist policies object to, does not preclude those policies from having been reactions to other policies! People are not robots, and to take your example, they can't blame their violence on others 'making' them that way. Aren't there any policies around that YOU don't like? If so, do those policies MAKE you hate them? Or are you just reacting to them and trying to change them?
I said absolutely nothing about defending freedom or expression or that your defence of their freedom of expression makes one seem like they're supporting them. I'm also not sure where people were suggesting a ban on them rallying. If so I missed it. Regardless this has nothing to do with any of my comments. As far as I am concerned they have a right to march and a right to rally but what they don't have is a right to do that in an arena without any pushback. Freedom of speech does not imply to speak and have other people shut up about it.
Well for one your making a huge assumption that it's only 'leftist policies' they are reacting too. Last I checked in both the US and Canada there is no carte blanche left right divide in policies that effect minorities meaning both right and left policies affect minorities. Now were could get into and debate about with side is better for minorities, that could go on all day. It's beside the point to it's the lefts fault argument you've made here.
Do you not realize that in order for your 'carte blache' arguement to follow through logically, that you are saying or implying that right wing policies are okay for racists and supremists? Do you understand what that suggests here? Do you understand that by attacking leftie positions as THE REASON (carte blanche) that you're actually condeming all rightie policies? I personally don't think your intending to do that but regardless you are even if it's accidental on your part. That's actually the supreme irony (pun intended) here since you self identify as a rightie. So yeah, sorry, I do find that kind of funny ironic.
Try looking at the creation of the supremist phenomenon without your partisan right/ left blinkers on. Then maybe you'll get to understand what drives people like that. Not everything in this world fits into some sort of right, left position at it's starting point. Racism and white supremicy does not just stop at some sort right left divide. Though rarer it seems, left leaning supremists do exist.
I would say that they hate Capitalism as much as they hate Socialism. Nazis always did. I still think the title of their march indicates that it's liberal policies they find objectionable. Other than that, I don't disagree with anything you've said. Freedom of speech means other have to the right to object, absolutely. That's how the balance works - bad behaviour is self-regulating that way.
"Do you not realize that in order for your 'carte blache' arguement to follow through logically, that you are saying or implying that right wing policies are okay for racists and supremists? Do you understand what that suggests here? Do you understand that by attacking leftie positions as THE REASON (carte blanche) that you're actually condeming all rightie policies?"
Yes, you are right. But depends what you think of as left and Right policies. For example, in my experience extremists don't have much of a grasp of economics in any case but are rabidly anti-Capitalist. The free market abhors them, and that's what I think of as a 'ring-wing' policy. They would think welfare is good - but only for them - and they would be against immigration, which many capitalists are in favour of. So you are correct - there are some right-wing policies they would object to (again, probably) but I don't think of extremists as being "far-right" as I think that term is meaningless. they are just extremists. it's hard to know what they think beyond their immediate knee-jerk reactions.
For example, in my experience extremists don't have much of a grasp of economics in any case but are rabidly anti-Capitalist.
Funny. Those non-extremist capitalists had to put bullets - or at least try to - in the heads of democratically-elected people who you would label extremist.
For example, in my experience extremists don't have much of a grasp of economics in any case but are rabidly anti-Capitalist.
Funny. Those non-extremist capitalists had to put bullets - or at least try to - in the heads of democratically-elected people who you would label extremist.
you mean like Hitler?
Yes, like Hitler, except it's quite obvious that his policy of killing millions of people made him an extremist.
I was referring to someone like Salvador Allende. (I'll give you a hint: he was elected president in the territory just south of the birthplace of potatoes).
I was referring to someone like Salvador Allende.
Of course you were!
But you are crawling too far off-topic, so - sorry, not biting :)
I was referring to someone like Salvador Allende.
Of course you were!
But you are crawling too far off-topic, so - sorry, not biting :)
Let me "distill" my point even further so that you can "drink it up" (think of it as turning potatoes into vodka if you need a visual). I think making the claim that all extremists in your experience are anti-capitalist is quite on-topic. This is a rather crtical forum with quite a few leftists who do challenge capitalism, and yet again you have made comments that are designed to enrage the babble community with sweeping statements.
If you read it, j.m. it was far from a sweeping statement. You can challenge capitalism all you like but it doesn't change the fact that white supremacists, in my limited experience, do not carry signs that say "reduce regulation in the banking sector now!", and "no to capital gains tax!". What do they believe in, in your experience?
a bit sick of the 'tato jokes but carry on. Yes the Irish eat potatoes (LOL), yes there was a famine and a million of us died (ROFL).
First he appeared here as a Viking.
Then, when we attacked white supremacists, he declared that he was white.
Then, when we started smashing potatoes, he suddenly became Irish.
Now, I'm almost afraid to say anything against assholes...
If you read it, j.m. it was far from a sweeping statement. You can challenge capitalism all you like but it doesn't change the fact that white supremacists, in my limited experience, do not carry signs that say "reduce regulation in the banking sector now!", and "no to capital gains tax!". What do they believe in, in your experience?
a bit sick of the 'tato jokes but carry on. Yes the Irish eat potatoes (LOL), yes there was a famine and a million of us died (ROFL).
I actually know a lot of white supremicists from Latin America and they advocate for protection from nationalization (even if they don't take to the streets to do it) or the invasion of the "potato-making people" who advocate for collectivism. Impossible to believe that white people benefit from colonialism and that capitalism is an extension of that privilege, or is it?
This potato jokes have nothing to do with the Irish and everything to do with your euro-centrism. Stop playing the role of the indignant white person being victimized. I don't even know that you have Irish descent, but I do know that you 'don't get it'.
I get it. I'm just playing with you - don't worry, I have a sense of humour and won't run crying to the CHRC. I think it's cute though that you think I don't know where potatoes come from, or who Salvador Allende is. I'm pretty sure I've got you beat when it comes to world history and geography!
I do apologise for not having a monolithic identity. I must remember to be more one-dimensional when commenting on here.
Why not just let the police handle it.
Why not just let the police handle it.
I predict the media will outnumber the righteous on either side.
BTW-It's hard to imagine a more obscure location than the Braid Skytrain station-a stop on the road to nowhere.
Ya, and why New West?
Why not just let the police handle it.
All over the world, wherever Nazis gather, progressive forces have massed to show that they will never tolerate the rise of such poison in their society. I want to hail the progressive people of Vancouver for continuing this tradition.
Smash fascism!
Nonsense. This isn't Nazi Germany. We have a police force to handle illegal disturbances.
North Report, I'm not sure their rally is illegal. That's the thing. I'm sure they would LOVE to have the police take them down for just showing up with their signs as despicable as they are. Unless they actively hate speeching under the legal definition of hate speech then what they're doing isn't illegal.
All around the world, anti-racist and anti-fascist forces arrive in huge crowds, vastly outnumbering the Nazi scum, and do their very best to expose and disrupt their "legal" attempts to assemble and spew their venom.
You want to rely on the police to stop the spread of Nazism and racism, NR - more power to you. Stay home.
Bolton race clash riot: 74 arrested in street demonstration
[Thousands of anti-fascists vs. a handful of Nazi scum.]
"We won't let these EDL racists riot again"
The racist English Defence League (EDL) wants to riot against Muslims in Bolton on Saturday 20 March.
This follows their rampage through the streets of Stoke last month in which they smashed up Asian shops and homes.
But activists are mobilising to stop them.
“We have to tell those bigoted thugs they shall not pass,” says Barry Conway, secretary of the Bolton NUT teachers’ union.
Lamia Zasrani, a student from the borough, agrees. She says people should not be scared into staying at home.
“If we don’t protest on the streets, the EDL will have free rein,” she says.
Trade unionists from across the north west of England have joined the call to stop the racists.
And the police to the rescue:
Activists condemn demobilisation of anti-fascist protests
Anti fascist supporters are angry at attempts by police and local councils to stop the Asian community and young people from joining protests against the racist English Defence League (EDL).
Activists were speaking at the recent Unite Against Fascism conference in London about building a mass campaign to confronting the EDL and the Nazi British National Party (BNP).
“Police went to mosques, schools and anti fascists meetings to stop people joining the Manchester protest last year”, Mark Krantz, a local activist told the meeting. “We didn’t see them out at the football grounds telling people not to join the EDL protest!”
An activist from Stoke said that the police organised activities for Asian youth to take them away from the protest. This was echoed by a Leeds activist—“Youth workers literally stood on street corners, and some went door to door, to deter them”, said Katie Wheatley.
“They even put on coaches to Alton Towers to take youth out of the area. Their actions expose the Islamophobia that still exists in state institutions”, she argued.
The Nottingham delegate spoke about how the police encouraged local Mosques to use their Eid message to stop people coming out.
And a babble thread last month:
Neo-Nazis outnumbered by counterdemonstrators at Dresden rally
That's the one where the Mayor led the civil disobedience to smash the fascists. She didn't wait for the cops to prevent the rise of Nazism in Germany like they did in the 1930s...
I think by other groups confronting these idiots, sickos, whoever they are, you give them the additional publicity they seek. The Lower Mainland within a couple of decades with have 60% visible minorities. I doubt very much there is much of a market for this kind of stupidity in this area.
Stay home and let the police handle it, NR. These "idiots, sickos, whoever they are" need to be stamped out before they spread.
Now I could agree with you if you said these brownshirts need to be stopped.
Reining in U.S. rent-a-RambosScandal has shone the light on America's dirty little secret armies in Afghanistan and Iraq wars
What, then, about the army of U.S. mercenary Rambos that are running amok, who wear no uniform, kill at will and have no legal oversight? http://www.ottawasun.com/comment/columnists/eric_margolis/2010/03/19/132...
NR, our job is to ensure that Canada withdraws from Afghanistan; gives no support whatever to U.S. crimes in Iraq or elsewhere; and stops fascism and such forces from growing here. In that way, we look after those things that we are responsible for and that we can control, in solidarity with the people of Afghanistan and Iraq and the U.S. and other countries who are fighting for the same cause.
Regarding the publicity angle. In many cases I would agree with North Reports concern about giving additional publicity to awful things like this. I don't when it comes to these folks. They do want publicity. That's why they hold rallies like this in hopes that it will be covered. However for them getting publicity such as 'white pride holds rally' with the addition of 'white pride hold rally' and 'counter demo holds rally and outnumbers white pride demo' is not the sort of publicity they want. They want to be able to suggest that the lack of people caring is indicating support by ommision, that they really represent the 'silent majority'. It's a recruiting angle. That's why actions in Dresden that Unionist brought up are really important. It works to takes some of the wing out of those sails. Plus I know from experience that it really pisses them off when they can't claim that so many'white' people secretly support them. It's hard to do when they're standing next to more 'white' people countering the BS then they have in their own group. And yeah I bring up 'white' people on purpose. These types could care less about the numbers of non-whites that show up, not that I'm in any way saying that whoever people are that they shouldn't. That's just the reality of the way these folks think.
hear hear Eliza Q and unionist! These thugs need to be encountered and exposed like the scum they are.
"Let the police handle it" would be nice..if the police actually "handled" these issues. They are usually too busy trying to harass OCAP. Great priorities the police have.
Yes, Vancouver cops are too busy beating up people of colour to stop neo-nazis from marching.
Press Release re Planned White Supremacist March
http://vancouver.mediacoop.ca/newsrelease/3005
"Racial hatred must be opposed in all its forms; and the public has a right to know when individuals in their community are disseminating its propaganda..'
What White Supremacist Rally?
http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/News/2010/03/21/13308501.html
"The fear of a white supremacy rally in the Lower Mainland drew hundreds os anti-racism supporters to New Westminster Sunday. The coalition of diverse groups - from labour unions, communists, anti-racism advocates and social rights groups--showed up in force for a rumoured rally by a neo-Nazi group.
They never showed up. So instead of confrontation, demonstrators staged an upbeat rally to celebrate multiculturalism..."
Yes, Vancouver cops are too busy beating up people of colour to stop neo-nazis from marching.
Bah, so call in the Geheime Staatspolizei.
I wonder how many government spooks will be there with cameras rolling on the anti-fascistas. Provocateur time?
Beautiful! Cowardly scum stayed in their holes. Fear works.
Methinks their tactics are a tad subtle for one such as you, they got the publicity they wanted without having to even get out of bed.
Also-when will people learn the names of Vancouver suburbs-New Westminter is not Vancouver.
Methinks their tactics are a tad subtle for one such as you, they got the publicity they wanted without having to even get out of bed.
Regular folks would say that the many anti-fascist forces that linked arms to confront them on an urgent basis got the publicity, but then your interest seems to lie elsewhere. You were convinced that more media would show up than anti-fascists - you'll just have to learn to live with disappointment.
Shouldn't that read, "New Westminter is not Vanouver"?
lol @Conrad. Yes, New Westminster residents never refer to themselves as Vancouverites...
Anyway, as Unionist mentions, no-show Nazis stayed abed today.
Nonsense. This isn't Nazi Germany. We have a police force to handle illegal disturbances.
Remember that in the Weimar Republic, the German Army and police beat, arrested, tortured and shot/murdered communist and socialist demonstrators. They were often sympathetic/supportive/members of the NSDAP and other racist/fascist/right wing organizations.
My apologies for misspelling New Westminster.
Not sure why you think I'm disappointed-I didn't get out of bed either.
Not sure why you think I'm disappointed-I didn't get out of bed either.
Well, I just thought people who make predictions tend to be disappointed when they're so totally wrong:
But maybe you're happy that you were so totally wrong. My mistake.
Methinks their tactics are a tad subtle for one such as you, they got the publicity they wanted without having to even get out of bed.
Also-when will people learn the names of Vancouver suburbs-New Westminter is not Vancouver.
Conrad, why have you spent this ENTIRE thread mocking and belittling the importance of standing up to racism and fascism? Is there a reason you're being so derisive and dismissive about this issue? The fact that these people didn't appear today doesn't mean that no one needs to worry about them showing up in the future. They didn't show up because it became clear that they'd be so badly outnumbered by antifascists that they'd look pathetic and ridiculous. Isn't that a good thing by you? It would be by most people.
As I posted above-I very much doubt they care about those who oppose them and having the righteous show up and shout about something that didn't happen probably fits their plan to a Tee-what's so hard to understand about that.
The fury of the righteous sometimes blinds them to simple reality.
Whatever. Next time we organize an anti-fascist demo, we'll carry one small sign reading:
As I posted above-I very much doubt they care about those who oppose them and having the righteous show up and shout about something that didn't happen probably fits their plan to a Tee-what's so hard to understand about that.
The fury of the righteous sometimes blinds them to simple reality.
Then you don't understand them very well.
North Report, I'm not sure their rally is illegal. That's the thing. I'm sure they would LOVE to have the police take them down for just showing up with their signs as despicable as they are. Unless they actively hate speeching under the legal definition of hate speech then what they're doing isn't illegal.
I agree. Even though I hate what they stand for they have the right to peaceful protest. Their not stupid, they know the difference between what is considered hate speech and what's not and will skirt that line.
They love nothing more for police and counter-protesters to show up which attracts the media.
My personal views are that the best thing to do with idiots like this is to ignore them. I would love for no one to show up [including the media] and let them gather and shout and be ignored by the rest of the world.
Oops looks like it was a fop anyways.
as did they this time, as that is what they apparently "wanted"!
Good grief....
Each of has a right to our own opinion about what issues are most important and their degree of importance. Personally I thought going out to protest these flakes was a waste of time, plus why give them additional publicity. As it turned out I was correct in my assessment and they did not even show up. Wake me up when there is something serious to address, as we have police forces for arresting people who break the law. Who was the source of information that said they were going to demonstrate?
That absolutely does not go to follow.
This thread made me think of this article:
Canadian University Tells Ann Coulter To Watch Her Mouth
As I posted above-I very much doubt they care about those who oppose them and having the righteous show up and shout about something that didn't happen probably fits their plan to a Tee-what's so hard to understand about that.
The fury of the righteous sometimes blinds them to simple reality.
Why do you keep using the phrase "the righteous" as a term of contempt and derision?
And why do you use it as if fascists and antifascist activists are both equally ridiculous?
Is it your view that everyone should just have ASSUMED the fascists wouldn't shoe up?
Or you saying no one should have had a problem with the idea of a fascist demonstration in their home town?
Of all the threads where you could be a life form with hairy legs who lives under a bridge, why THIS one?
conrad, I too am puzzled by your presence and persistence in this thread. While you've not said anything that requires moderator intervention, I've been reading this thread and wanted to just drop you a friendly note.
Whenever fascist or organized racists and other would-be oppressors announce they will be taking up space, regular folks who object need to stand in opposition.
Yes, every time, and yes every place in which this happens.
Basing our actions on what the other side might "think" or "want" is not a tactic that's ever won our side, that is, the side of progressive change, anything.
My friendly suggestion conrad is to not continue to pop in to threads where you are offering no positive contributions.
I note two (2) other posters here with views similar to mine-why then am I being singled out for 'special treatment'?
IMV someone has been duped and ears are burning/someone is lashing out.
Why do you think anyone has been duped?
And, if the end result of this episode was a large demonstration against fascism, can't you at least admit that THAT was a good thing?
You owe us an explanation of what your attitude here is about. And also, would you kindly tell us what you think people should have been concerned about INSTEAD of this, (given that a clear assumption behind your posts here is that mobilizing against a possible fascist/racist rally in New Westminster was a waste of time). What was there, in your exalted and inherently superior point of view that people should have focused on rather than the need to take a stand against fascism and racism?
It's really not cool for you to be mocking people's feelings about this, you know.
Why not just let the police handle it.
What is there to "handle"?
If they are not breaking the law...then there's nothing for the police (or anyone else, for that matter) to "handle".
If they are breaking the law, then it's a police matter.
But, in either case, if others what to counter-protest, what's the big deal with that?
You're a bit late, Sven. The event was to have happened yesterday. The fascist cowards ended up not appearing.
Methinks their tactics are a tad subtle for one such as you, they got the publicity they wanted without having to even get out of bed.
Ya, pro-fascist demos are kinda like globalization meetings for the G8 leaders. They tend to schedule them in far away cities in ever more remote locations around the world to avoid security problems with massive protests. The pro-capitalist fascists are always outnumbered in these things.
You're a bit late, Sven. The event was to have happened yesterday. The fascist cowards ended up not appearing.
No, I realize that. I'm just saying that more generally.
I note two (2) other posters here with views similar to mine-why then am I being singled out for 'special treatment'?
Hmm, I wonder what final solution the mods will arrive at to deal with this yablonski question.
<rim shot!> <cymbal crash!>
Oy.
[omit]
Don't link to them dude. FFS.
We know who they are.
U.S. white supremacist videotapes antiracism rally in New Westminster
Antiracist activists at Braid SkyTrain station show up on white pride Web site
http://www.straight.com/article-299482/vancouver/us-racist-videotapes-ra...
Well now, so they did show up, and were to cowardly to claim who and what they were. Unless of course they were fishing for faces and names given this:
Because it's chance for the righteous to show their colours.
I predict the media will outnumber the righteous on either side.
I love how conrad equates white supremacists with anti-racists, and just lumps them all together as "the righteous", as if neither really has any claim to reality or reason.
You know, one side wishes Hitler and the Ku Klux Klan had succeeded in their ultimate goals, the other side wants to see an end to racism.
Well, heck, that's kind of the same, really, right conrad? They're all equally extreme and anti-social, just different sides, is that it, conrad?
You know, one side wishes Hitler and the Ku Klux Klan had succeeded in their ultimate goals, the other side wants to see an end to racism.
Well, heck, that's kind of the same, really, right conrad? They're all equally extreme and anti-social, just different sides, is that it, conrad?
Slow night on the keyboard tonight?
No one else to deliberately misunderstand?
comrade, what's not to understand.
By-the-way, please speak for yourself here.
This seems like an effective way to counter-protest idiots.
Students protest religious extremists with silly signs
"This filth cannot go unchallenged by secularists and other moderate believers alike. The goal of our protest is to showcase the absurd nature of this church's claims through satire, while expressing tolerance for diversity."
http://www.torontosun.com/news/world/2010/03/27/13380791.html
Neo Nazi Rally Planned for Vancouver March 21
http://mostlywater.org/neonazi_rally_planned_vancouver_area_two_articles
"The activist group No One is Illegal - Vancouver is preparing to confront what it says is a neo-Nazi rally being planned for March 21, the International Day for the Elimination of Racist Discrimination...The white-pride rally will start at 11:00 AM at the Braid Sky Train Station in New Westminster. Anti-racist protesters will gather at the same location..."
Why not just let the police handle it.
It took some link-hopping to discover what the rallyers themselves considered the rally to be about. Turns out they consider themselves not to be neo-Nazis but “Advocates for White Civil Rights”. By no stretch of the imagination is that the same thing.
It sounds silly, of course, but consider this. If you play at identity politics and try to unite all "non-white" groups against the majority, then don't be surprised if some white people want to play too. See the British National Party for example - identity politics for 'white' Britons.
Now, the Left created identity politics, and the Left created groups like these. They are your product, you have to live with them.
No it just doesn't sound silly. It is silly.
Twisted and bizzare apologetics is what it is.
Now, the Left created identity politics, and the Left created groups like these. They are your product, you have to live with them.
No, we don't have to "live with" Nazis, we have to crush them. We've done it before and we'll do it again.
As for "identity politics", it was racists and fascists and colonialists that created those, by oppressing people because of race and sex and nationality etc.
And if you think that way about the Left, what are you doing on this discussion board? Especially when your arguments are so unintelligent? We only tolerate right-wingers here who (a) have a conscience, and (b) are smart.
My argument was so "unintelligent" you missed it completely, Unionist. Someone isn't a Nazi just because some clown says he is. Look at your language! Whom you will "tolerate" and whom you will "crush". Of course we shouldn't tolerate Nazis - you can protest them, shun them, marginalise them. Although the last crushing of Nazis, I'm proud to say, took place in 1945, such 'crushing' and 'smashing' language seems misplaced in this context. what exactly does that involve? Or is the martial language metaphorical?
I meant "crush" in the purely culinary sense, and likewise with "smash". I'm so disappointed that you see military metaphors where others detect only fine cuisine.
And if you think that way about the Left, what are you doing on this discussion board? Especially when your arguments are so unintelligent? We only tolerate right-wingers here who (a) have a conscience, and (b) are smart.
Whatever I may think about the Left, or any form of oppression - revulsion, mostly - it does not preclude my being interested in what the Left has to say, or prevent me from asking those who say it clarify what they mean. Do you not keep a close watch on what 'the other side' is doing?