BC May 9, 2017 Election Results and Comments

481 posts / 0 new
Last post
Aristotleded24

With the seat count as close as it is, what happens if Liberal seats become vacant, and the NDP wins enough by-elections to push past the Liberals into majority territory?

I know ghoris upthread speculated that another election might happen in 2018 with that dynamic, but I'm not sure the seat standins will allow even that much stability. Remember that during by-elections, the NDP is also very good at taking seats that went Liberal in the preceding general.

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

jas wrote:

The BC Liberals have stacked every other government branch and agency with their own, I'm not sure how Elections BC could be immune. Even if no one is appointed, it's very easy to influence hiring.

I wouldn't be worried about ground level staffers, but decisions higher up could certainly influence things. We know it happens elsewhere. Why would anyone assume it couldn't happen here?

Does Elections BC not follow the same hiring rules as Elections Canada, namely that employees must not be members of any political party, and must not publicly express any preference for any political party while employed there?

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

Aristotleded24 wrote:

With the seat count as close as it is, what happens if Liberal seats become vacant, and the NDP wins enough by-elections to push past the Liberals into majority territory?

I know ghoris upthread speculated that another election might happen in 2018 with that dynamic, but I'm not sure the seat standins will allow even that much stability. Remember that during by-elections, the NDP is also very good at taking seats that went Liberal in the preceding general.

In the scenario you outlined, the the Liberals would not be able to retain the confidence of the legislature, though they would remain the government until such time as Clark (or a successor) lost a confidence motion; and they would be able to keep themselves from facing a confidence motion by keeping the legislature from sitting as long as possible.

The Premier could also ask the L-G to dissolve the legislature and call an election, and it would be up to the L-G to either approve or deny this request.

If the Liberals are defeated on a confidence motion, Clark (or her successor) would most likely request that the L-G call an election, while Horgan would likely make the case for being allowed to present a throne speech. The L-G would then decide whether to call an election, or allow Horgan to present a throne speech.

NorthReport
Basement Dweller

Re: Scrutineers

I was the only NDP scrutineer in my polling station with 4 polls and the only one there for the count. There was also a Liberal there for the count only (she very nice and told me she was just there for the local candidate in a way that indicated she wasn't there for Clark :) ).

Seriously, only two of us watching the ballots for four stations. All four polls were close and the district was one of the tighter races. There should have been four NDPers there for the count. It was after most people's work hours. Where were they?

NorthReport

Being a scrutineer is the worst possible job for most people as they want to see the election results as soon as possible

NorthReport

The Greens received 16.75% of the vote.

16.75% of the seats equal 14 or 15 seats

My hunch is that the Greens have finally received a significant breakthrough in BC and combined with what appears to be a minority government situation here in BC the Greens from now on are going to be a major political force here in BC and eventually across Canada as well

http://www.theprovince.com/news/local+news/green+breakthrough+remarkable...

Basement Dweller

NorthReport wrote:
Being a scrutineer is the worst possible job for most people as they want to see the election results as soon as possible

Both the Liberal and I were able to check the results on our smart phones. This is less of an excuse than it used to be. It did suck arriving at the campaign office to find most of the best food eaten. Campaigns should squirrel away some snacks for those who arrive after counting the ballots. Trust me, you are hungry after being in a polling place for a few hours, and they want you back at the office right away with the results forms.

BTW the polls clerks weren't biased as far as I could tell, and I've been around politics for a long time. About half were first-timers. Lots of turnover because it isn't great pay for such a long day. All the Elections BC staff I met were polite and professional.

NorthReport

!!

NorthReport

Even the media donates to Christy Clark

 

No wonder people have a hard time trusting news, polls

It’s no secret: Canada’s biggest newspaper chain is pushing hard for another Christy Clark majority government.

Postmedia, which owns the Vancouver Sun and The Province, donated $10,000 to re-elect the BC Liberals. Both Vancouver papers have officially endorsed Christy Clark (neither editorial mentioned the RCMP investigation of party fundraising, or Big Money in politics).

Monday morning the Sun declared: “NEW POLL POINTS TO LIBERAL MAJORITY”. Accompanying the article was a PDF showing the NDP leading with 35 per cent support, the BC Liberals at 31 and Greens at 17, with 18 per cent undecided.

https://dogwoodbc.ca/even-media-donates-christy-clark/

NorthReport

The final piece of the puzzle

https://dogwoodbc.ca/final-puzzle-piece/

NorthReport

Kudos to all the NDP & Green campaign workers who toiled non-stop to help us rid BC of another right-wing corporations first government 

Democracy, it’s your call

https://dogwoodbc.ca/its-your-call/

NorthReport

dated May 4 '17

Christy Clark can taste victory, again

https://dogwoodbc.ca/clark-can-taste-victory-again/

NorthReport
NorthReport
NorthReport

BC's media have been more responsible for creating these right-wing governments in BC than any other group in our society.

As well as PR isn't it time we did something about the media as well? Not only government, but we should be getting big money out of media as well.

cco

NorthReport wrote:

Last time I checked Scrutineers were not guarding the absentee ballots until they are counted.

I was a scrutineer at a university advance polling station (absentee ballots, since students could vote in their home ridings, not just the riding the campus is in) in 2015. At the close of voting each day, the ballots were sealed and I and the other scrutineers signed the seal. When the ballots were opened on election day, the seals were checked for integrity. It's true that I didn't stand guard 24/7 until October 19th, but I was fairly satisfied that neither Harper nor Trudeau sent Elections Canada goons to slip in a bunch of fake ballots and forge my signature on a new seal.

I've never scrutineered a BC election, it's true, but I'd be surprised if the process were much different there.

NorthReport

46% of the NDP candidates were women. Greens and Liberals only 33%

http://www.theprovince.com/news/politics/nearly+cent+mlas+elected+women/...

NorthReport

What are the rules about recalling the Legislature? Does anyone here know?  Why is the media not discussing this? It seems like BCers need to start another campaign, this one for the Legislature to be recalled ASAP!

http://www.metronews.ca/news/vancouver/2014/03/13/b-c-new-democrats-push...

NorthReport

Do they know something we don't know, or is this just misleading media headlines playing their dirty tricks once again?

Liberals hang on to win BC’s first minority government in 65 years

http://normangeestar.net/2017/05/14/liberals-hang-on-to-win-bc-s-first-m...

NorthReport

Christy Clark would still face tough road, even if seat flips in her favour

Party will still need a speaker; MLAs can't miss votes

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/christy-clark-would-still...

NorthReport

What's the point though, until we know for sure what the election results are.

BC Green Party leader Andrew Weaver planning on week of negotiations with other parties

“Historically absentee ballots bode very well for the BC Greens and the BC NDP,” said Weaver.

“If anything it will tighten up, in my opinion. I suspect it might even come to 42-42, with three Green.”

http://globalnews.ca/news/3447867/bc-green-party-leader-andrew-weaver-pl...

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
By-the-way which riding was it (Jodie Wickens's riding perhaps) where the Liberals, oh sorry, Elections BC, had printed  at least some of ballots with an "X" in the Liberal Candidate's box? Typo, eh. No doubt about that whatsoever!

So it's an "X" now??

Quote:
The non-partisan independent elections agency said a “printing error” caused a small mark to appear inside the circle beside Liberal incumbent Marc Dalton’s name.

Also, Dalton appears to have lost.  Huh.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Pogo wrote:

I totally believe that Christy is corrupt and is capable of corrupting people around her.  The voting system however has evolved with layers of scrutiny because Christy is far from the first corrupt politician.  

I agree whole heartedly. But then I know what a Lover of the Universe is capable of. 

NorthReport

But my understanding is that these ballots were being used in the advance poll voting I believe, until a voter complained. What can you say at a time like that except "Sorry for this tiny error that has pre-marked the ballots for the Liberal candidate." This tells me that Elections BC does not do a proper check of the ballots, and if they don't check the ballots properly, what else are they doing wrong?

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
By-the-way which riding was it (Jodie Wickens's riding perhaps) where the Liberals, oh sorry, Elections BC, had printed  at least some of ballots with an "X" in the Liberal Candidate's box? Typo, eh. No doubt about that whatsoever!

So it's an "X" now??

Quote:
The non-partisan independent elections agency said a “printing error” caused a small mark to appear inside the circle beside Liberal incumbent Marc Dalton’s name.

Also, Dalton appears to have lost.  Huh.

NorthReport

Ban Big Money in B.C. Politics

British Columbia is the Wild West of political financing: any corporation, union or wealthy donor anywhere in the world can give unlimited money to municipal or provincial politicians.

Citizens are overwhelmingly opposed to Big Money in provincial politics, with 86 per cent of British Columbians supporting a complete ban on corporate and union political donations – like we have at the federal level.

Yet millions of dollars continue to pour into B.C. elections from real estate developers, foreign oil & gas companies, construction unions, trophy hunters and more. Many of these donations are anonymous, hidden or otherwise untraceable.

This is wrong and it's corrupting our democracy. It's time for British Columbians to take back our province from the powerful interests controlling our politicians. Join our campaign and let's Ban Big Money in B.C. Politics!

https://dogwoodbc.ca/petitions/ban-big-money/

NorthReport

B.C. Election 2017: Andrew Weaver sets demands, begins negotiations, on minority government

http://www.theprovince.com/news/politics/election+2017+andrew+weaver+set...

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
What can you say at a time like that except "Sorry for this tiny error that has pre-marked the ballots for the Liberal candidate."

As I understand it, the issue isn't that these ballots would somehow be counted as Liberal votes, but that by virtue of being a tiny little mark beside one candidate, they would force a spoiled ballot when combined with a much larger and clearer and more obvious "X" beside another, because a voter cannot mark their endorsement of two candidates.   But it also seems that Elections BC handled this (specifically by recalling the ballots that were known to be misprinted, and by informing poll staff that if they encounter a ballot with (say) a big, bold "X" beside the Green candidate, and a wee little mark beside the Liberal candidate, they should not regard that as a spoiled ballot.)

Quote:
and if they don't check the ballots properly, what else are they doing wrong?

We're all waiting to hear... from YOU.

I trust you understand that if you want to make the claim that there are other irregularities that resulted in a Liberal win (for now) then it's your job to tell us about them, not our job to assure you there cannot have been any.

To put it another way, you can't just say "well, I'm suspicious of some wrongdoing, and that's all the proof we should need that there was wrongdoing".

Pogo Pogo's picture

Left Turn wrote:

Pogo wrote:

On CBC radio Vancouver they had a guest (Friday am?) who spoke about the problems with our minority government conventions.  Often they are interpretted in different ways and often they are ignored.  New Zealand, Britain and Australia have all codified their rules and we should also.  The guest said they have a list of 10 suggested rules, but I can't for the life of me remember which group he was from.  Anyone else listen to the show?

Short of changing BC's constitution to rewrite the rules around how governments are formed following elections, the L-G retains 100% control over who may test the confidence of the legislature, and is bound by NO conventions, however established they may be.

Yes the Crown's representative is all powerful.  However in practice they are a lever of government and will act in accordance to the wishes of the elected bodies.  If the BC legislature passed a law that said that the legislature must be convened withing X days of the election (reporting out of the final vote count?) the AG would take those instructions seriously and I doubt they would dare ignore them.  Australia had a major crisis when the Governor General made a very questionable decision in a minority government (trying to remember the details), and the upshot appears to be that the GG now has clear guidelines on how to respond to minority government scenarios.

Pogo Pogo's picture

http://democracywatch.ca/20170511-b-c-party-leaders-and-lieutenant-gover...

The article from Democracy Watch lists 8 suggested rules:

8 Key Rules for Minority Government

  1. Until the Lieutenant Governor has communicated directly with all the party leaders, the Lieutenant Governor will not make a decision about which party or parties (through either a formal coalition or legislative agreement) will be given the opportunity to govern first (i.e. to appoint a Cabinet and introduce a Speech from the Throne in the legislature);
  2. The party that wins the most seats in the election will be given the first opportunity to govern, including in partnership or coalition with another party, unless the leaders of other parties representing a majority of members of the legislature indicate clearly to the Lieutenant Governor that they will not support that party and that they have agreed to form a coalition government or have agreed on a common legislative agenda;
  3. Within 30 days after the Lieutenant Governor decides which party or parties will be given the first opportunity to govern, the Lieutenant Governor and the governing party/parties will open the legislature with a Speech from the Throne;
  4. Even if the leaders of parties that represent a majority of members of the legislature do not indicate lack of support for the party that wins the most seats before that party’s Speech from the Throne, if they subsequently indicate lack of support for the Speech, the Lieutenant Governor will not allow the Premier-designate to prorogue the legislature before the Speech from the Throne is voted on by members of the legislature;
  5. If a majority of members in the legislature vote against the Speech from the Throne, the Lieutenant Governor will give the opposition parties an opportunity to govern (through either a formal coalition or legislative agreement) before calling an election;
  6. After the vote on the Speech from the Throne, the only vote in the legislature that shall be a vote of non-confidence is a vote on a motion that states: “The legislature does not have confidence in the government.”
  7. If opposition parties introduce a motion of non-confidence in the governing party at any time after election day, the Lieutenant Governor will not allow the Premier to prorogue the legislature before the motion is voted on by the legislature, and;
  8. If a majority in the legislature votes to approve a motion of non-confidence in the governing party before the next fixed-election date, the Lieutenant Governor will give the opposition parties an opportunity to govern (through either a formal coalition or legislative agenda agreement) before agreeing to any request by the Premier that the Lieutenant Governor call an election.

NorthReport

!!

NorthReport

How do we even know if this is true? Or did Christy Clark's office omit to mention that she can govern until all the votes are counted which is a given, and we don't need the LG to tell us that.

Lieutenant-governor asks Christy Clark to govern

http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/news/local-news/lieutenant-governor-a...

NorthReport
Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
How do we even know if this is true? Or did Chrity Clark's office omit to mention that she can govern until all the votes are counted which is a given, and we don't need the LG to tell us that.

Ummm.. what's your question, exactly?

You seem to acknowledge that she can remain in power until the recent vote is completely counted.

What would be the other option?  Kick the current government to the curb BEFORE the votes have been counted??

NorthReport
NorthReport

I hope the NDP has filed for judicial recounts in the ridings where the vote spread was within 500 votes. I think they have one day more to do so.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

They have six days after the final count is announced.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

NorthReport wrote:

I hope the NDP has filed for judicial recounts in the ridings where the vote spread was within 500 votes. I think they have one day more to do so.

It is not within 500 votes it is within 100 votes to get a non-judicial recount and within 1/500 of the ballots cast for a judicial recount. They have already applied for all the judicial recounts they were looking at. The only riding in the province subject to the automatic judicial recount rule is Courtenay Comox.

To get a judicial recount you have to show potential discrepancies or errors sufficient to change the result.  

Here NR I am sure I posted it above but maybe you should look at the rules before stating what they are with no knowledge base.

Guide to Recounts  http://142.34.128.33/docs/guidebooks/879.pdf

 

ghoris

The last judicial recount in BC that I can recall was in 2005 when Lorne Mayencourt won the then-riding of Vancouver-Burrard by a mere 13 votes on election night, which I believe was reduced to 11 votes on the judicial recount.

CBC says Elections BC received requests for recounts in Coquitlam-Burke Mountain, Courtenay-Comox, Maple Ridge-Mission, Richmond-Queensborough and Vancouver-False Creek. They approved the requests in Courtenay-Comox and Vancouver-False Creek (although apparently the successful request in False Creek came from another party, not the NDP).

Courtenay-Comox is a no-brainer, but the Liberals are ahead by 560 votes in False Creek. With a spread like that I find it odd that Elections BC would agree to order a recount, but not in the other ridings with much closer results. That suggests to me that the successful recount request had some pretty cogent evidence of errors or irregularities.

I assume that the candidates in the other three ridings can file a petition to the BCSC seeking either a judicial recount or an order directing Elections BC to conduct a recount (unless the Elections Act has some appeal mechanism built in from decisions of the District Returning Officer to decline to order a recound). However, that petition would have to be supported by evidence suggesting errors or irregularities significant enough to potentially change the result, the same as the recount request submitted to Elections BC, so I wouldn't hold out a lot of hope that there will be recounts in Coquitlam-Burke Mountain or Richmond-Queensborough.

nicky

Does anyone know what justifies the False Creek recount where the Liberals have what seems to be an insurmountable lead?

NorthReport

Thanks ghoris.

Rev Pesky

Anybody remember Landslide Al?

brookmere

nicky wrote:
Does anyone know what justifies the False Creek recount where the Liberals have what seems to be an insurmountable lead?

Anyone who can type "vancouver false creek recount" into Google. Actually I think someone already gave the information on this thread.

http://142.34.128.33/index.php//news/media-advisory-district-electoral-o...

 

NorthReport

Do you believe the "experts"?  Are there any other legislatures in Canada that sit as infrequently as the BC Ledge?

With B.C. politics on standby, some worry rules too lax to prevent abuse

As B.C. Liberals hold onto power pending the final ballot count, Democracy Watch wants parliamentary conventions written down. Some experts disagree.

University of B.C. political scientist Gerald Baier said the Legislative Assembly must meet at least once a year, but it already met for a month. But he said voters need not fear perpetual postponement past the planned October sitting: it would be unpopular, and without it B.C. can’t draw additional funds.

http://www.metronews.ca/news/vancouver/2017/05/15/bc-politics-on-standby...

NorthReport

"A beautiful ecosystem of back-scratching": Lobbyists and B.C. politics

http://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/05/08/news/beautiful-ecosystem-back...

NorthReport

B.C. election is a teachable moment on proportional representation

http://theprovince.com/opinion/op-ed/opinon-b-c-election-is-a-teachable-...

NorthReport

UBC profs on the provincial election: it’s a waiting game now

https://www.ubyssey.ca/news/ubc-profs-talk-provincial-election/

NorthReport
NorthReport

BC Liberals planning to introduce reworked, Green Party-influenced budget

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/bc-liberals-plannin...

jerrym

 

Left Turn wrote:
The one mistake that I do believe the NDP made in the closing days of the campaign, after the AdvantageBC scandal broke, was to not shift their campaign to exclusively hammering the Liberals on this. The AdvantageBC scandal clearly showed that the main policy initiative of the Liberals at present is corporate welfare. Not to mention that one of the companies that got corporate tax breaks from the AdvantageBC program is considered an international criminal organization by the U.S. government.

That the NDP did not hammer the Liberals relentlessly on this during the closing days of the campaign allowed the corporate media to downplay the scandal, so that it did not become a major factor in most people's votes. ...

Where I do believe the AdvantsgeBC scandal played a role was in motivating more NDP supporters to volunteer for the NDP's GOTV effort. Given the low voter turnout overall, this boost to the NDP's GOTV effort was I believe a key factor in allowing the NDP to pick up ridings in Metro Vancouver.

I agree totally. Instead of focusing on the BC Advantage scandal, the NDP also spent time on the BC Liberals hiding alcohol price increases by shifting from an alcohol price that included taxes to one that added the taxes to the previous price - something that was true but was unlikely to win additional votes. 

Another NDP problem is its use of social media. IMO, NDP websites were poorly designed, often seemed focused more on gaining donations than explaining why one should vote NDP or what the platform was. Many also had a connection for making a donation but no phone number or address for those wanting to volunteer. The party also seemed to learn nothing from Trump's success in using social media to get free advertising to counter an opponent that was vastly outspending him.

Furthermore, with more people getting their news from Facebook, Google, Twitter etc. than from the MSM, this would have provided an opportunity to get out the NDP message unfiltered by and independent of corporate media, as well as providing a means to establish two-way communication with voters. 

Pages