BC NDP Leadership Race

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NorthReport
BC NDP Leadership Race

We have now had 16 years of right-wing government in BC, which depending on the vote-counting and sellouts this coming week, could turn into more.

In 2017, the Horgan-led BC NDP increased their popular vote only by a measly 0.15%, yes, that's correct, an increase of less than 1%, after the disasterous Dix-led fiasco in 2013.

The 2017 Horgan-led BC NDP continued the Party theme of "NO", which almost totally ignored proposing decent jobs and construction projects,  jobs being the number one issue for winners in almost every election campaign.

It's time for the next BC Leadership race to begin. 

So what are some of the names that would be considered possible candidates:

Doug Routley?

Spencer Herbert?

Rob Fleming?

Bowinn Ma?

David Eby?

 

NorthReport

 

Liberals with 43 seats and the Greens with 3 seats = 46 seats

NDP only has 41 Seats, and considering how unpopular Clark was, is pathetic!

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
It's time for the next BC Leadership race to begin.

That might have made a better and more accurate thread title.

As it is, it looks like there's such a contest underway, when there isn't.  I don't mean to pick on you, but why not post FEWER things, but BETTER?  If you think that the BC-NDP needs a new leader, why not say so and make that clear?

Aristotleded24

So the BC NDP handing the Liberals a net loss of seats for the first time in 12 years is cause to dump the leader?

Besides, every post-2001 election has been winnable for the NDP. 2 of the past leaders clearly failed, where the third one had mixed results. Given that these results keep happening under different leaders, maybe something other than who the party figurehead is needs to be looked at?

NorthReport

Liberals won both the popular vote and the seat count. 

The NDP has run on everything else so in the next election how about the NDP running on decent jobs as their number one priority just once and see what happens? 

ghoris

NorthReport wrote:

Liberals won both the popular vote and the seat count. 

The NDP has run on everything else so in the next election how about the NDP running on decent jobs as their number one priority just once and see what happens? 

I wouldn't be so sure about the Liberals winning the popular vote at the rate that margin has been shrinking through the recounts. And I would argue that the NDP focus on affordability issues was what allowed them to make major gains in the Lower Mainland. I think there is a happy medium and I agree that the NDP could have spent more time saying "we are going to create good construction jobs by investing in public housing and infrastructure" etc but at the end of the day, I think the BC NDP did a reasonably good job of saying "what good is a strong economy if nobody can afford to live here" and that resonated with voters in the Lower Mainland which (and I know that this is going to get me in trouble) is where most of the voters (and population growth) are.

Aristotleded24

ghoris wrote:
I wouldn't be so sure about the Liberals winning the popular vote at the rate that margin has been shrinking through the recounts. And I would argue that the NDP focus on affordability issues was what allowed them to make major gains in the Lower Mainland. I think there is a happy medium and I agree that the NDP could have spent more time saying "we are going to create good construction jobs by investing in public housing and infrastructure" etc but at the end of the day, I think the BC NDP did a reasonably good job of saying "what good is a strong economy if nobody can afford to live here" and that resonated with voters in the Lower Mainland which (and I know that this is going to get me in trouble) is where most of the voters (and population growth) are.

For at least a decade, people were saying that as the urban percentage of the population grew and became more progressive, all the left needs to do is to speak to that and not worry about the rural conservative areas, and I think this election result is the culmination of that. Remember that the BC NDP lost 2 of its interior seats this election, and if they had simply held on they would be in the majority. They would have been even stronger if they had managed to hold all their post-2005 Interior seats.

I think it's also a false dichotomy that you have to win seats in urban areas at the expense of rural residents. True, urban and rural people will sometimes disagree, but this is where effective leadership comes in. I think the NDP had a good platform on urban affordability, but they need to go one step farther and compliment it by speaking to rural needs that have been neglected by the BC Liberals. And getting into specifics, how does funding more daycare spaces, keeping class sizes in schools down, recruiting more family doctors, and building an urgent care centre in Kamloops hurt rural folks?

NorthReport

The time for John Horgan to go is now! Let's appoint an interim leader, hold a leadership convention, as we now have another unmitigated election disaster for the BC NDP. 

Christy Clark says B.C. Liberals "have a responsibility" to form a government

http://www.straight.com/news/914576/final-election-results-christy-clark...

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

NorthReport wrote:

Liberals won both the popular vote and the seat count. 

The NDP has run on everything else so in the next election how about the NDP running on decent jobs as their number one priority just once and see what happens? 

They WERE running on jobs.  It's not as though the ONLY way to run on jobs is to back Kinder Morgan and Site C.

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

NorthReport wrote:

The time for John Horgan to go is now! Let's appoint an interim leader, hold a leadership convention, as we now have another unmitigated election disaster for the BC NDP. 

They can't run on the extraction-uber-alles platform YOU want them to run on, because they'd probably lose two votes fo the Greens for every vote they might gain from the "Liberals".

Aristotleded24

Ken Burch wrote:
NorthReport wrote:

Liberals won both the popular vote and the seat count. 

The NDP has run on everything else so in the next election how about the NDP running on decent jobs as their number one priority just once and see what happens? 

They WERE running on jobs.  It's not as though the ONLY way to run on jobs is to back Kinder Morgan and Site C.

Not only that Ken, but the Interior ridings where these projects would be built went Liberal by such a large margin that it's far from certain the NDP doing that would have flipped those ridings. Then you had the urban ridings where the opposition against these projects was so strong that even were the NDP to try to play the middle ground, that could have sent enough of their voters to the Greens to allow the Liberals to come up the middle.

NorthReport

The denial is sickening.

Tonite, once again, the BC NDP lie in tatters, ruining the dreams of millions of BCers.

The people running the BC NDP have screwed up for long enough, they need to all resign en masse, and let some other people take over. Enough is enough.

NorthReport

BC can now expect to have 2 leadership races - one for the Liberals and one for the NDP.

http://theprovince.com/news/bc-politics/b-c-s-political-drama-has-only-j...

NorthReport

In other words I got nothin' says John Horgan.  

You know it, I know it, and now the entire province of BC knows it.

B.C. NDP and Greens working on a governing framework, 'but we don't have that today,' says Horgan

The B.C. Liberals have the first opportunity to form government but party is one seat short of a majority

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/horgan-election-result-re...

 

NorthReport

This remind you of anything a bit more current?

How the BC NDP Blew the Election

https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2013/05/21/BC-NDP-Blew-Election/

Policywonk

ghoris wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

Liberals won both the popular vote and the seat count. 

The NDP has run on everything else so in the next election how about the NDP running on decent jobs as their number one priority just once and see what happens? 

I wouldn't be so sure about the Liberals winning the popular vote at the rate that margin has been shrinking through the recounts. And I would argue that the NDP focus on affordability issues was what allowed them to make major gains in the Lower Mainland. I think there is a happy medium and I agree that the NDP could have spent more time saying "we are going to create good construction jobs by investing in public housing and infrastructure" etc but at the end of the day, I think the BC NDP did a reasonably good job of saying "what good is a strong economy if nobody can afford to live here" and that resonated with voters in the Lower Mainland which (and I know that this is going to get me in trouble) is where most of the voters (and population growth) are.

The Liberals won the popular vote by only .08%. Now it is not the popular vote or the fact that she has a plurality of seats that count but whether Christy has the confidence of the legislature. The Greens will be toast if they support anyone without getting enough in return. We shall see.

NorthReport

B.C. Liberals make pitch to continue government as a minority in legislature

http://www.vancouverobserver.com/news/bc-liberals-make-pitch-continue-go...

NorthReport
kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Really North Report? So tell me how many seats on Vancouver Island would the NDP hold now if they had listened to you and supported pipelines? How about in Burnaby? If they had supported the bridge over the Fraser at Deas Island how many seats do you think they would have gained in Surrey?

When your done figuring that out get back to me and tell me what interior ridings could the have NDP won to make up for loses in those seats?

By the way the popular vote was 1.566 votes apart. That is less than 1% of the votes cast.  If the Ontario NDP was as incompetent as the BC NDP and got 40% of the vote they would have a large majority. 

JKR

NorthReport wrote:

The time for John Horgan to go is now! Let's appoint an interim leader, hold a leadership convention, as we now have another unmitigated election disaster for the BC NDP. 

It might make little sense to get rid of Horgan and appoint an interim leader if Horgan gets Weaver's and the Green's support and becomes premier of British Columbia. In fact I think Horgan will soon be the premier of BC with the aid of the BC Greens!!

Hallelujah!!!!!

jas

NorthReport wrote:

The time for John Horgan to go is now! Let's appoint an interim leader, hold a leadership convention, as we now have another unmitigated election disaster for the BC NDP. 

Yeah, that worked so well last time.

NorthReport

The last time the NDP won was in 1996 and the main reason was because of the leader and since that leader won one election we have not won since
We need another leader like Glen Clark and quite frankly until we get one we will not win another election
Jobs and the economy are always the number one issue in any election and unfortunately since Glen Clark we have never had a leader who promoted jobs as the number one issue Too bad

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

NorthReport wrote:
The last time the NDP won was in 1996 and the main reason was because of the leader and since that leader won one election we have not won since We need another leader like Glen Clark and quite frankly until we get one we will not win another election Jobs and the economy are always the number one issue in any election and unfortunately since Glen Clark we have never had a leader who promoted jobs as the number one issue Too bad

The BCNDP was JUST as pro-jobs this year as in 1996(and took a higher share of the popular vote this year).  It's just that they didn't buy into your view that the ONLY way to be pro-jobs is to be unquestioningly pro-extraction.

The real reason the party lost was that that they didn't nail the Liberals to the wall over the Advantage B.C. scam.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Ken Burch wrote:

The real reason the party lost was that that they didn't nail the Liberals to the wall over the Advantage B.C. scam.

The Advantage BC program was bad but given a version was in place both before and after the 1990's NDP governments it was not an issue that would resonate with low information voters as a Christy Clark caused problem. Of course they took the program to its max to help their corporate friends but it is a intricate and technical subject not the subject for an effective  sound bite that could not be easily nullified.

The real reason the NDP lost is the intense animosity of the ruling elite because they are competive in BC. The MSM is constantly on the attack against them. BC'ers have been told for seventy years that the NDP/CCF wrecks the economy. It is a "big" lie that is propagated by the billionaires who own our MSM. The facts show that the NDP has been the most fiscally responsible party since WWII but the "big lie" is as effective as it was when Goebbels used it.

ghoris

NorthReport wrote:
The last time the NDP won was in 1996 and the main reason was because of the leader and since that leader won one election we have not won since We need another leader like Glen Clark and quite frankly until we get one we will not win another election Jobs and the economy are always the number one issue in any election and unfortunately since Glen Clark we have never had a leader who promoted jobs as the number one issue Too bad

"Another leader like Glen Clark" is the last thing the BC NDP needs.

ghoris

Aristotleded24 wrote:

ghoris wrote:
I wouldn't be so sure about the Liberals winning the popular vote at the rate that margin has been shrinking through the recounts. And I would argue that the NDP focus on affordability issues was what allowed them to make major gains in the Lower Mainland. I think there is a happy medium and I agree that the NDP could have spent more time saying "we are going to create good construction jobs by investing in public housing and infrastructure" etc but at the end of the day, I think the BC NDP did a reasonably good job of saying "what good is a strong economy if nobody can afford to live here" and that resonated with voters in the Lower Mainland which (and I know that this is going to get me in trouble) is where most of the voters (and population growth) are.

For at least a decade, people were saying that as the urban percentage of the population grew and became more progressive, all the left needs to do is to speak to that and not worry about the rural conservative areas, and I think this election result is the culmination of that. Remember that the BC NDP lost 2 of its interior seats this election, and if they had simply held on they would be in the majority. They would have been even stronger if they had managed to hold all their post-2005 Interior seats.

I think it's also a false dichotomy that you have to win seats in urban areas at the expense of rural residents. True, urban and rural people will sometimes disagree, but this is where effective leadership comes in. I think the NDP had a good platform on urban affordability, but they need to go one step farther and compliment it by speaking to rural needs that have been neglected by the BC Liberals. And getting into specifics, how does funding more daycare spaces, keeping class sizes in schools down, recruiting more family doctors, and building an urgent care centre in Kamloops hurt rural folks?

I don't entirely disagree, and I'm not suggesting that the NDP forever 'write off' the Interior. But I would point out that the last time the NDP made major inroads in the Interior was in 2005 and that was largely by speaking to voters about the impact of Liberal cutbacks on their communities. I don't think the NDP has stopped hammering that theme, yet we have seen those seats the NDP won in 2005 not only return to the Liberal fold, but remain Liberal with increasingly large majorities. If the NDP is winning seats like North Vancouver-Lonsdale, it *should* on historical voting patterns be picking up seats in places like Kamloops and Prince George easily. Instead, the Liberals increased their majorities in both cities. I don't think that's a symptom of the NDP ignoring people in the Interior, I think it's a sign that those voters for whatever reason simply aren't buying what the NDP is selling.

I agree the party should never simply 'write off' rural voters or put all its eggs in the 'urban growth' basket, but I don't think that the NDP's repudiation by Interior voters in this election was for lack of trying.

quizzical

i do. the NDP is invisible in the interior.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

quizzical wrote:

i do. the NDP is invisible in the interior.

The NDP is a political party and like all political parties, especially ones with limitied financial resources, they have to rely on the local activists at the riding level. The question is how to revitalize the grassroots at the riding level.

The two new seats the Greens won were because of strong riding associations and running succesful municipal politicians as candidates. The central office didn't win the seats on Vancouver Island, the local NDP activists won those seats. Ronna-Rae Leonard is good example of a former municipal politician with a good local team. Proven track records and volunteer support have always been the key to electoral success at the provincial level. People from the Lower Mainland cannot fix the lack of support in the Interior only people who live there can.  

 

NorthReport

I'm so tired of people making excuses for such political losers. It's a shame the NDP does not have that winning mentality which is required to win and is essential to effect positive change on our society. 

NorthReport

The NDP were dead in the water in the interior, blew their brains out in several ridings such as Lali's riding, and also the one in the Kootenays where the NDP candidate was found guilty of some offense just as people were going to the polls, and as well the other one that involved sexual harassment on the Island.

jas

The NDP has had a mixed message for BC resource towns. The party has somewhat acknowledged the problem with the current resource extraction picture, but also has to sell itself as pro-jobs and pro-industry, and they're not convincing anyone. Partly because they don't have an innovative vision of their own, or if they do, they haven't communicated it well. Meanwhile, Greens can criticize anything they want while offering an exciting, high tech future, without having to actually produce anything for anyone.

Unfortunately, the longer we have right-wing governments, the less educated an electorate we have, hence the more stark urban/rural divide in the NDP vote this time. 

Aristotleded24

ghoris wrote:
I agree the party should never simply 'write off' rural voters or put all its eggs in the 'urban growth' basket, but I don't think that the NDP's repudiation by Interior voters in this election was for lack of trying.

If progressive Democrats in the US are running competitive races in deep red state districts that went for Trump by a large margin, what's the NDP's excuse?

Aristotleded24

kropotkin1951 wrote:
The NDP is a political party and like all political parties, especially ones with limitied financial resources, they have to rely on the local activists at the riding level. The question is how to revitalize the grassroots at the riding level.

Isn't that why Michelle Mungall keeps winning her Nelson-area seat by a comfortable margin?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Aristotleded24 wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

The NDP is a political party and like all political parties, especially ones with limitied financial resources, they have to rely on the local activists at the riding level. The question is how to revitalize the grassroots at the riding level.

Isn't that why Michelle Mungall keeps winning her Nelson-area seat by a comfortable margin?

It is also the reason that Burnaby is a socialist republic. Grass roots activism was required to keep sending Svend and then Bill to Ottawa, elect NDP MLA's and hold the keys to city hall for a generation. IMO central campaigns dont win elections but they can lose them easily enough. People expect some genius from the central campaign to produce a win in ridings where there is no grassroots activists or well known community leaders who are proudly NDP and I think that is an absurd concept.

quizzical

it's a hard one kropotkin.

no one here dares to be NDP openly except us. we may've been the only to even vote NDP here the way it seems.

mom spent her time working with her friends and their networks in Courtney Comox and Kootenay Boundary. she said she wasn't wasing her time here.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

jas wrote:

The NDP has had a mixed message for BC resource towns. The party has somewhat acknowledged the problem with the current resource extraction picture, but also has to sell itself as pro-jobs and pro-industry, and they're not convincing anyone. Partly because they don't have an innovative vision of their own, or if they do, they haven't communicated it well. Meanwhile, Greens can criticize anything they want while offering an exciting, high tech future, without having to actually produce anything for anyone.

Unfortunately, the longer we have right-wing governments, the less educated an electorate we have, hence the more stark urban/rural divide in the NDP vote this time. 

The answer lies in some variant of "going BIG"-that is, pushing a serious, radical and radically practical program for a new economy in the resource zones of BC-something with the values of the LEAP, but expressed in a way that working-class people can understand and TRUST.

This will require the willingness to do large-scale public expenditure AND to act in ways that, at least in the short-term, do NOT stay entirely within the bounds of market economics.  Worker ownership and worker management if a Crown Corporation is established as part of this can and should be part of it, and will appeal to the sense of practicality working-class voters pride themselves(ourselves-I worked on a ferry boat for sixteen years mopping floors and cleaning rooms, so I think I count in that demographic)on.

Don't know how the details will work, but that's how I think the broad strokes would be applied to the work.

NorthReport

We need to stop all the bullshit and lying to the people. There is nothing wrong with saying the BC NDP represents working class people.