Adoptions and Haiti
Whites Make Pact With God, Expedite Haitian Adoptions
My inbox is infested with melodramatic stories of good straight middle-class Christian white people who’ve bonded with “their” Haitian children through pictures, orphanage visits, and on religious missions. The Washington Post announced, “Prospective parents grow more worried about Haiti’s orphans,” and the The LA Times declared, “Children are safe, but US parents’ adoption dreams are buried in rubble of Haiti earthquake.”
“Heart-wrenching,” “excruciating,” “tragic,” “anxious,” and “fearful.” These are the terms used to frame white adoptive couples’ emotional experience of the disaster.
The children are always “safe” and “unharmed” in these stories. The economic and political origins of the children’s availability to the adoption market are erased as the individualized and apolitical personal crises of privileged white couples command center stage. The verbal violence and erasure continue in adoptive parents’ testimony about “their” Haitian children’s current situation. The children are only “living” in Haiti. Their “forever families” are waiting for them to be sent “home” to Kansas or Illinois, Indiana or Montana.
Not the answer they want to hear.
I wanted to highlight an excellent, conscious, radical feminist of color response to the situation in Haiti developed by the Women’s Health & Justice Initiative, New Orleans and INCITE! Women of Color Against Violence. They ask the key question, “How can we intentionally support the long term sustainability and self determination of the Haitian people?” I believe this is the same question any individuals who claim to care about the children of Haiti should ask themselves. And I firmly believe the response cannot reasonably include anything involving removing the children from their country for adoption.
Leave those orphaned children in Haiti where they can be cared for by Haitian orphanages. Oh wait
To survive after quake, the desperate target Haiti's orphanages
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/01/21/haiti.orphanages.attacks/?hpt=Sbin
I think they should evacuate all Haitians to Canada, and let the corporatocracy make total lebensraum of the place. Dominican Republic as well, because it's a US managed hellhole, too. And let them hire Blackwater mercenaries to work for slave wages in Haiti.
I don't really understand your post, E. Tamaran. Shouldn't we concentrate on helping Haiti help Haitians--including rebuilding infrastructure like orphanages and hospitals--rather than evacuating the island of its children?
Thank-you so much for posting this, Catchfire. I've been horrified at the media emphasis on shipping Haiti's babies out to be given to (mostly white) families in rich western countries. This really captures it for me:
And this is worth repeating too:
My common sense response would be for those adopters to take the money they would be using to buy a Haitian child and give it to organizations working within the child’s community to provide relief and to eventually rebuild the infrastructure of that community so the child can remain in its care.
Not the answer they want to hear.
That's okay - they won't hear it. The media (and even all the mainstream Canadian political parties) are drumming the message that the top priority is to make sure western families get their babies.
Add my thanks also, Catchfire. Although I thought I had collected some pretty good reasons for importing Haitian kids to Canada in a previous thread:
There is only one reason to adopt Haitian children. To assuage the White Man's Burden.
I have been swearing at CBC again for its almost non stop coverage of the plight of the Canadian people wanting to scoop children out of Haiti. I used your terminology Makawa specifically because it reminds me of the abusive adoption polices adopted in Canada in relation to FN's children.
There is a big difference between what happened to FN children in Canada: they had parents, relatives etc. These are orphans. The scoop of FN children was from capable parents (of a different race and culture).
It just encapsulates everything that is wrong with the current relief effort, doesn't it? An audacious refusal to acknowledge our colonial debt; a reversal, like some have mentioned, of the burden of suffering from Haitians to middle-class Canadians; a rhetorical switch from the real social conditions to emotional, decontextualized response; and a bulletproof shroud of protection for the whole affair: how can you blame my charity when all I feel is love and a need to help?
Package that with the door-prize of a mixed race adoption, and you have a shitstorm of neo-liberal politics.
In response to Ghislaine, while I acknowledge the difference between this and the criminal residential schools, the OP points out that since Haiti finds itself in such a state of chaos, it is difficult and indeed premature to label some of these children "orphans" (although I understand that in Canada's case, these are pre-earthquake cases now being rushed through).
There is a big difference between what happened to FN children in Canada: they had parents, relatives etc. These are orphans. The scoop of FN children was from capable parents (of a different race and culture).
You seem to be saying that as long as their parents are dead it is okay to take them from their culture and extended families and send them to white middle class neighbourhoods around Canada. I don't agree but you are entitled to your opinion.
I will not engage in a debate with you on the parenting skills in FN's communities that for generations endured the abuse of the residential school system. As I know you are aware, the scoop of FN's children was one in a long series of abuses specifically designed to destroy aboriginal culture and society. I saw similarities with the FN's scoop not direct parallels.
What I am saying is that the Haitian community needs to keep their children not have them taken away because rich North Americans think they are too poor to care for them. Far better to help Haitians rebuild and provide jobs. Those children need caregivers and Haitians need better jobs than making tee shirts for Walmart and Disney for pennies an hour. We should help them engage in mutual aid not steal their children.
Thanks kropotkin. I was going to say the same thing - just because a child is orphaned doesn't necessarily mean they've lost their entire family. It just means they've lost their parents.
There is only one reason to adopt Haitian children. To assuage the White Man's Burden.
Well, why do people adopt in general? To assuage some sort of White Man's Burden? Or because, for whatever reason, tehy can't have kids on tehir own and are looking to have a family and provide a loving home? I assume nobody has any sort of problem with adoption in general - say, an infertile couple adopting a baby from someone with an unplanned pregnancy who doesn't think tehy can care for the child. So, what is the objection to adopting kids from Haiti versus adopting kids from the young couple whose condom broke one night? The racial difference?
Well, to find out, you could read the OP for starters. That's why it's there.
ROTFLMAO. Burn.
What is the white man's burden? As a white male should I be worried about this? What do I need to know? Are women afflicted by this too?
I don't really understand your post, E. Tamaran. Shouldn't we concentrate on helping Haiti help Haitians--including rebuilding infrastructure like orphanages and hospitals--rather than evacuating the island of its children?
The Haitian orphans should remain in Haiti. However Haitians are stealing the milk and medecin from the orphanages which will lead to the orphans' deaths. The solution would seem clear: provide relief aid to the Haitians so they don't need to loot orphanages. But the relief effort is criticized by many people on this board (just sayin'). Anyway, since aid is finally reaching most areas less looting should be taking place and the orphans should be a bit safer now. Now the Haitian government should focus all its efforts on re-establishing an effective, in-country adoption program.
Here's a survivor of the quake from the U.S. who is angry with the portrayal of Haitians as looters and criminals:
Student survives quake to tell the tale of Haiti
During an interview Wednesday, the UNC doctoral student made it clear that she would rather talk about Haiti's recovery and the world's negative perception of the island nation and her people than her harrowing experience during the catastrophic earthquake that left more than 100,000 dead.
Wagner, who hails from San Francisco, was inside a house in Port-au-Prince last week when the magnitude-7.0 earthquake struck. The house collapsed, trapping Wagner, her landlord and another woman who lived and worked at the house.
While Wagner and the landlord were rescued by a man who worked at the house, the third woman perished in a tomb of concrete and timber.
But as gripping as Wagner's story is, she preferred to spend much of Wednesday's interview defending Haiti from what she contends are media reports that paint an unflattering, one-sided picture of the Haitian people she has grown to admire and respect.
"Can we talk about this, because it's making me crazy," Wagner said of media reports in recent days citing an increase in looting and violence in Haiti. [...]
Wagner says the focus of her research -- she was studying human rights and household servants in Haiti -- would likely change, though she is not exactly sure what it will shift to at this point.
In the meantime, Wagner said she plans to raise money, become an advocate and make as much "noise for Haiti for as long as she can" to help improve conditions there and to try and change the world's negative perception of the island, which is often used to guide policy decisions.
She said she plans to return to Haiti as soon as it's practical.
"I'll go back when I can start to be useful," Wagner said. "If I go now, I'll just be another person who needs food."
What is the white man's burden? As a white male should I be worried about this? What do I need to know? Are women afflicted by this too?
It is a vicious disease passed from the British to the Americans sometime in the last century. Don't worry the white man gets the burden everyone else gets the yoke.
Nah. Have you read "White Teeth" by Zadie Smith?
Orphans don't need milk and medecin.
I don't really understand your post, E. Tamaran. Shouldn't we concentrate on helping Haiti help Haitians--including rebuilding infrastructure like orphanages and hospitals--rather than evacuating the island of its children?
The Haitian orphans should remain in Haiti. However Haitians are stealing the milk and medecin from the orphanages which will lead to the orphans' deaths. The solution would seem clear: provide relief aid to the Haitians so they don't need to loot orphanages. But the relief effort is criticized by many people on this board (just sayin'). Anyway, since aid is finally reaching most areas less looting should be taking place and the orphans should be a bit safer now. Now the Haitian government should focus all its efforts on re-establishing an effective, in-country adoption program.
You're blaming the poor for looting aid money? There is all kind of food in Haiti. The problem is that the poor couldnt afford to buy even before the quake. The neoliberalorama in that country wasn't working before, and it's not going to work after the good doobie imperialists leave Haiti. Haitians need a revolution, and for the US CIA and US and Haitian militaries to stop interfering as they have so many times before. Would anyone send any child from anywhere to Haiti for adoption? Get real! Haiti is a failed nation state, and things aren't going to become any better there for children with US and Haitian oligarchs ruling the roost. Children have zero rights in Haiti as it is in all of the rest of the world's US-managed client states.
Fidel, it's so good to have you here.
Well, to find out, you could read the OP for starters. That's why it's there.
yeah, I read it and it was just a bunch of cheap shots at whites, westerners and Christians and the middle class and false assumptions that those would be teh only people adopting babies. That and a knee-jerk reactionary posturing taking precedence over the lives and safety of children in unimaginable circumstances.
As a Korean adoptee herself, she probably has some idea what she's talking about, I'd think.
I would concur. There's nothing quite like experience.
Well, thankfully, SSC, we have you to stand up for white, Western, middle-class Christians. I would find it easier to respond to your critique if you spelled out some specific examples instead of this broad hodgepodge of bromides. For example, where does the OP assume "those would be the only people adopting babies"? And even if she did, how does that suspend or undermine her critique?
And I felt the OP firmly refuted the claim of your last sentence. But it's difficult to know without you offering specifics.
I don't really understand your post, E. Tamaran. Shouldn't we concentrate on helping Haiti help Haitians--including rebuilding infrastructure like orphanages and hospitals--rather than evacuating the island of its children?
The Haitian orphans should remain in Haiti. However Haitians are stealing the milk and medecin from the orphanages which will lead to the orphans' deaths. The solution would seem clear: provide relief aid to the Haitians so they don't need to loot orphanages. But the relief effort is criticized by many people on this board (just sayin'). Anyway, since aid is finally reaching most areas less looting should be taking place and the orphans should be a bit safer now. Now the Haitian government should focus all its efforts on re-establishing an effective, in-country adoption program.
You're blaming the poor for looting aid money?
I never said aid money was being stolen.
UNICEF: 'Adoption Not the Best Choice for Quake Orphans'
The organisation’s executive director Ann Veneman said in a statement that every possible effort should be made to reunite children with their families.
"Only if that proves impossible, and after proper screening has been carried out, should permanent alternatives like adoption be considered by the relevant authorities," she stated. "Screening for international adoption for some Haitian children had been completed prior to the earthquake. Where this is the case, there are clear benefits to speeding up their travel to their new homes."
[...]
Plan International, one of the world’s oldest international charities focusing on the rights and needs of children, says it supports UNICEF’s stance.
"We have a pretty clear and firm position, and the views of UNICEF and Plan International are very much alike," Rosemary McCarney, chief executive of Plan Canada told IPS in a telephone interview. "Children are at their most vulnerable in disasters and sometimes we cannot tell if children are without parents or relatives, so we need to put in place a tracing mechanism.
"The wors[t] thing we can do is to move them out of the community and to lose track of them or to have them bond with a new family when their extended family are looking for them. It’s very important to move slowly with regards to adoption and move very quickly with regards to making sure these children are safe and are being cared for by responsible adults."
McCarney added, however, that if children were already in a process of formal adoption, then Plan supported governments’ expediting of the process but without being less vigilant about the protection of the child.
"You can speed up the process but not cut corners," she said. "We must keep in mind that the first best choice is to have children with family members. And the second best choice is to have them in their own community with responsible adults taking care of them."
I think their best chance is to get the hell out of Haiti. It's a failed nation state that isn't going to get any better under US management. Yanquis are forcing them to stay on the island, because they don't want them in America. And the same is true of millions of people living in those US-managed shitholes in Central America. Honduran and Salvadoran children have risked their lives to get out of those countries to seek a better life. And many children are broken along the way on their voyages to Maico and the land of cheap imimgrant labour to the north. Uncle Sam doesn't want many of the refugees he creates in 'the backyard.' Let them come to Canada and at least get welfare or something. We're paying for massive corporate welfare anyway. Might as well help out some of the desperately poor. Our two stoogecratic parties in Ottawa won't agree to letting orphaned Haitians into Bananada though because Uncle Sam wouldnt approve. And our windup stooges follow instructions from Warshington like the obedient lap poodles that they are.
How many here personally knows anybody who is trying adopt one of these kids?
Everything in Catchfire's UNICEF link is spot-on. Adoptions begun prior to the quake were (I assume) screened as per Haitian governmental standards, etc. Attempts would have been made to find relatives. These adoptions should be assisted in going through, as they were going to go through anyways.
New adoptions should not be occuring until the Haitian government can get back on its feet and until all efforts can be made to locate family. My understanding of the NDP's position (and the position I hold) is that they are only calling for adoptions already in process to be expedited. I cannot understand why anyone would be against this, as these would have had to have been approved by the Haitian gov't prior to the quake. Whatever child welfare legislation/policies they have would have had to have been followed.
I would hope that there is something similar to our own standards for adoption, where every effort is made to find kin and make a kinship placement prior to adoption with a non-relative.
Fidel: So you think we should just give up on Haiti and move everyone to the North America??
Haitian governmental standards? Are you serious? Yes, I think we should open our doors wide open to all desperate Haitians right now. It was an awful country before the earthquake, and now things couldn't be worse. There were stories of gangs running around raping and murdering the children of dissidents who favoured Aristide not so many years ago. Aristide himself worked with Haiti's abandoned orphans. Haiti is a failed nation state complete with hunger and rampant with AIDS and diseases related to malnutrition. Very many Haitians should qualify as political and economic refugees. Haiti stands out as a neoliberalized basket case among neoliberalized basket cases.
Since PraetorianFour asked: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Man's_Burden
There is a serious discussion to be had around the ethics of adopting children out of their country of origin and culture.
I don't know, Fidel. You're sounding awfully compassionate this morning. Do we really need a boatload of grateful brown people? What would they do for a living? Do they have, you know, "skills"? Are they survivors? Do they have what it takes to be a successful Canadian? They're not going on the dole, are they?
I think we should always have our doors open wide to anyone who wants to come to Canada, absolutely. Open immigration works for me. The issue here isn't immigration, the issue is taking children from their extended families, country, and culture. There's a big difference between an adult making the choice to emigrate somewhere (with or without their families), and babies being taken out of their countries. A whole lot of adult international adoptees have talked about how they never had the choice, and experienced racism in their adopted countries and with their (often white) adopted families. The blogger Catchfire links to speaks of this experience.
A fb friend pointed out to me that there are Haitian-Canadian families who are also adopting non-relative children from Haiti, which is a good point. I haven't noticed the media focusing on those stories though - the ones I've seen on TV are white couples talking about their terrible experiences trying to get "their" babies out of Haiti.
G. Muffin, ironic racism isn't acceptable. Please don't.
The whole country is a prison, and children have a right to health care and education, three meals a day and so on. The USA doesn't regard those rights, so how are their crooked friends running Haiti going to guarantee basic child rights?
Exactly the position the NDP holds, and on your last point me either!
How many here personally knows anybody who is trying adopt one of these kids?
My partner in martial arts is looking at adopting one of the children.
Thanks for the link Cassia.
I read a comment someone made about using the military in Haiti. If all you have is a hammer than every problem starts to look like a nail. Okay I'll buy that.
On the same note if you expect to find a monster under every bed and in every close pretty soon every shadow is a monster in waiting.
This thread makes me sad. Humans are moved by this disaster and reaching out.
"Why didn't they care before?!" The very same reason that healthy movie stars don't give a shit about cancer until it hits them.
Someone said instead of people adopting children they should take that money and just throw it towards relief funding. Really? Does that mean you're ready to match that person or families donation of thousands of dollars?
Somehow I don't think so. Some people see every problem as a nail and others see every act of kindness as a prelude to a knife in the back. That's no way to live if you ask me but to each their own. It may be hard for some of you to believe but there ARE kind souls in this world who want to help because they can and not because they're a certain colour or feel guilty over something.
Mr Nobody, I know of one (white) family with 4 kids that has quite suddenly decided to adopt from Haiti. But this is relevant how?
Statement from Adoptees of Color Roundtable:
We understand that in a time of crisis there is a tendency to want to act quickly to support those considered the most vulnerable and directly affected, including children. However, we urge caution in determining how best to help. We have arrived at a time when the licenses of adoption agencies in various countries are being reviewed for the widespread practice of misrepresenting the social histories of children. There is evidence of the production of documents stating that a child is “available for adoption” based on a legal “paper” and not literal orphaning as seen in recent cases of intercountry adoption of children from Malawi, Guatemala, South Korea and China. We bear testimony to the ways in which the intercountry adoption industry has profited from and reinforced neo-liberal structural adjustment policies, aid dependency, population control policies, unsustainable development, corruption, and child trafficking.
[...]
We uphold that Haitian children have a right to a family and a history that is their own and that Haitians themselves have a right to determine what happens to their own children. We resist the racist, colonialist mentality that positions the Western nuclear family as superior to other conceptions of family, and we seek to challenge those who abuse the phrase “Every child deserves a family” to rethink how this phrase is used to justify the removal of children from Haiti for the fulfillment of their own needs and desires. Western and Northern desire for ownership of Haitian children directly contributes to the destruction of existing family and community structures in Haiti. This individualistic desire is supported by the historical and global anti-African sentiment which negates the validity of black mothers and fathers and condones the separation of black children from their families, cultures, and countries of origin.
As adoptees of color many of us have inherited a history of dubious adoptions. We are dismayed to hear that Haitian adoptions may be “fast-tracked” due to the massive destruction of buildings in Haiti that hold important records and documents. We oppose this plan and argue that the loss of records requires slowing down of the processes of adoption while important information is gathered and re-documented for these children. Removing children from Haiti without proper documentation and without proper reunification efforts is a violation of their basic human rights and leaves any family members who may be searching for them with no recourse. We insist on the absolute necessity of taking the time required to conduct a thorough search, and we support an expanded set of methods for creating these records, including recording oral histories.
[...]
We offer this statement in solidarity with the people of Haiti and with all those who are seeking ways to intentionally support the long-term sustainability and self-determination of the Haitian people. As adoptees of color we bear a unique understanding of the trauma, and the sense of loss and abandonment that are part of the adoptee experience, and we demand that our voices be heard. All adoptions from Haiti must be stopped and all efforts to help children be refocused on giving aid to organizations working toward family reunification and caring for children in their own communities. We urge you to join us in supporting Haitian children’s rights to life, survival, and development within their own families and communities.
http://adopteesofcolor.org/?page_id=2
looks like it is a new website...
I'm sorry. Should I delete?
Haitian children sold as cheap labourers and prostitutes for little more than £50 2005
Santo Domingo is a shithole-supreme, too. I've seen the poorest people in this hemisphere from that country as well as Haitian's "looking for a better life" living in corrugated tin shantys on the banks of the Ozama River. Haiti is a prison. The poor should be evacuated, and the rich and the military and their American friends left to abuse their excellent selves and one another.
http://adopteesofcolor.org/?page_id=2
looks like it is a new website...
'bout time, eh!
This reminds me of the Elian Gonzalez story from 10 years back.
Most left-wingers in North America said he should be raised by his father in Cuba, and right-wingers said he should stay in North America, I remember the presence of Disney World being mentioned as a key privilege. Now, it is the opposite.
The way the first world outsources pregnancy to the third world is absolutely disgusting imo.
The Yanks wanted Elian. They don't want children from Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala or any of those other US-managed hellholes. Their parents want them to go north and seek a better life and possibly pave the way for their own escape from 'the backyard.' But the Yanks especially don't want Haitians for some reason. The whole island is a prison and neoliberal basket case.
Ok, so are they nice people who can support another child and is doing this out of compassion and decency or do you think they "suddenly decided to adopt from Haiti" because they want a pet kid?
Same for you patorian 4....
It's relevant here because most of the folks here who oppose this adoption idea are making so pretty mean assumptions about the people who are trying to adopt these kids. If we hear from people who ACTULLY know some of these people perhaps we can get a better idea of what really motivates them.
Mr Nobody, I know of one (white) family with 4 kids that has quite suddenly decided to adopt from Haiti. But this is relevant how?
And then perhaps we could also get them the information why it's wrong.
For very many families in Latin America, getting one of their children out of the backyard to North America or Europe would be considered a victory. They know there is no future for their children in the US-managed colonies. And the propagandists still crow about how "everyone" wants to come to America and Canada, because they love us for our freedoms. It's not hard to decide to leave a shithole.
You mean information on why YOU think it's wrong...
I doubt you'll be able to change thier minds. ..
As for me; I wouldn't do it for a number of reasons (some of which you have stated).
And then perhaps we could also get them the information why it's wrong.
Since I'm an adoptee, it might help.
I'm talking about the actual people who adopt these kids not World Revolutionary Politics and the evils of the USA.
Are you implying they have some dark imperialist agenda that is motivation behind these adoptions without actually knowing anybody who is adopting?
For very many families in Latin America, getting one of their children out of the backyard to North America or Europe would be considered a victory. They know there is no future for their children in the US-managed colonies. And the propagandists still crow about how "everyone" wants to come to America and Canada, because they love us for our freedoms. It's not hard to decide to leave a shithole.
Interesting... Same race or different?
So what would you tell them?
Since I'm an adoptee, it might help.
I'm white and my parents are white. I have no problem with adoption per se. But I don't believe in rich western foreigners adopting children away from 3rd world countries. It all just ties back to assuaging the white man's burden. But people need to understand that "white man's burden" isn't always gender specific.
Adoption is a difficult thing even for someone extremely privileged like me. Perhaps, I have more of an open ear for the adoptees of colour who are speaking out.
Yes, "they", and especially if you're referring to the largest beneficiaries of Canada's massive energy and fossil fuel and raw materials exports, the USSA. US hawks have been very dark and very sinister with their foreign policies. It's no big secret anymore.
We're not talking about adopting poor children in Toronto whose UN defined child rights are being violated in McGuinty's Ontario. This is Haiti, a country where children and their mothers have zero rights under management by Haitian and US elites.
I'm talking about the actual people who adopt these kids not World Revolutionary Politics and the evils of the USA.
Are you implying they have some dark imperialist agenda that is motivation behind these adoptions without actually knowing anybody who is adopting?
For very many families in Latin America, getting one of their children out of the backyard to North America or Europe would be considered a victory. They know there is no future for their children in the US-managed colonies. And the propagandists still crow about how "everyone" wants to come to America and Canada, because they love us for our freedoms. It's not hard to decide to leave a shithole.
Some of the children were placed in orphanages by their parents.
Their parents.
The thought overwhelms me, as an individual whose wealth and privilege is protective and insulating. How desperate must a parent be to surrender a child? Pretty damn desperate.
(snip)
How many prospective adoptive parents have been trained in cross cultural and transracial adoption issues? (The same parent referenced above wonders about black hair care. Now that she's receiving the child. Do you think she thought about other issues of race and culture?) (Don't even get me started about trauma issues. That's too big to even cover. But I'm of the opinion that the average individual isn't equipped to handle extensive trauma in a child.)
Why aren't agencies soliciting prospective parents of Haitian descent? Folks with experience treating trauma?
I also hate to get into the whole "why don't people adopt domestically" argument, because I think family choices are very personal. But we have a crisis in our own country. At least half a million children with no parents. Children who presumably speak English. Children who presumably share our culture.
But it's about being deserving. We all know that "those people" in the U.S. have problem children. But the orphans in Haiti deserve our help. Although their parents and their society seem to suffer from the tarnish of "those people" as well. Because foraging for food in a disaster is "looting," and because rioting is what "those people" do, we have to remove the children.
(snip)
Of course, you must think about the children! What do you want, for more children to DIE? They CAN'T LIVE under those conditions! Isn't it BETTER for them to BE HERE than to be in an ORPHANAGE?
Because those are the only two choices we have. It's the same old argument about intercountry adoption. Would you rather the child grow up to be a prostitute? Would you rather she work in a factory? So what if he maintains his culture but has no family?
Because you can't argue because everybody knows that adult Haitians are poor and clueless or corrupt and incompetent. But not the babies. So let's save the babies.
It's about giving aid but only on our terms. The strings attached are the children.
resist racism: "Orphans, Orphans, Orphans"
................
This week, I've been deeply disturbed at the swelling public desire to adopt Haitians. Haitian orphan babies. The very name is problematic. In our imagination, an orphan has no family, but the vast majority of "orphans" all over the world have living parents, and almost every single one has living extended relatives. And the children that need family care are, overwhelmingly, older children.
(snip)
Let me try another analogy. Let's say you live with your child in a house that burns down. You're dazed, confused, and burned. Your neighbor says, "I think I should take care of your child". You say, "Thanks for your offer. But my child really needs me now, and I think they wouldn't sleep well in a strange house. If you could just give us a tent and some food and some bandages so we can camp out while I get better and look into rebuilding, we'll be OK." Your neighbor says, "that's too logistically complicated and I'm concerned about the security situation. I just want your child." You say, "Thanks again for your concern and I'm grateful for any help you can give me. If you're so worried about my child, maybe you could let both of us stay in your guestroom for a while? That way my child could be safe and would sleep well too." Your neighbor says, "No, we have an interdiction-at-sea policy and visa restrictions will not be relaxed. Just give me your child. Actually, nevermind. I don't even need your permission anymore. I'll just take them."
(snip)
As someone who has adopted before, here's some questions I'd ask of anybody in the U.S., of any race, who is really serious about this.
- Do you know what a homestudy is? Are you ready to pass one?
- Do you realize it will be almost impossible to adopt a baby, hard to adopt a toddler, and that the vast majority of children who really need to be adopted are older children?
- Do you know what attachment disorder is? Children with inconsistent caregiving in early years often develop this to some degree. They may experience the expression of love as a terrifying loss of self. They may do anything in their power to make you stop loving them, including physically attacking you, your pets or your other children. There is no known 100% effective therapy for this.
- Do you understand the effects of various prenatal exposures? Do you understand and accept that your child may grow up with irreparable brain damage?
- Are you ready to establish routine visits to one, two, three, all of these and more: therapist, psychiatrist, physical therapist, neurologist?
- Are you prepared that your child may resent you or hate you for taking them away from everything and everyone they've known and loved? And that even if you've explained to them that they're never going back, they may still try to push you away, because in the back of their minds, if they're bad enough, you'll send them away, and they'll go back to everything and everyone they've known and loved?
- Are you prepared to have a child so terrified from trauma that they act as if they were half their developmental age? That they wake you up screaming every night at 3 in the morning? That they rage uncontrollably if you don't stay by their side every waking minute?
- Are you prepared for your friends and family to perhaps shrink away from you because they don't understand why your child acts the way they act - maybe it's because you don't love them enough, or you don't spank them enough - you're doing it all wrong and it's all your fault.
If you can answer "yes" to all of these, congratulations. You might be ready to adopt from foster care. To adopt from Haiti, answer all the above questions, add the effects of malnutrition, add a language barrier, and multiply the child's trauma by a factor of ten. And subtract a lot of money. Unlike foster care adoptions, which are basically free, you're going to have to pay legal fees. Maybe even $30,000. And children from foster care will have permanent Medicaid, no matter your income level, but if you adopt internationally, it's up to you to find a way to pay for all those psychiatrist visits you'll almost certainly be needing later on.
Racialicious: "The Dangerous Desire to Adopt Haitian Babies"
Thanks Catchfire, Maysie and all for discussing this. I feel better for talking and reading about it instead of eating me up inside.
Haitian orphans stranded by Ike
"We really have to get out of here because we don't have any medicine and the kids are sick," Mr. Noel said, reached on his cellphone yesterday in Gonaïves. "We are really hoping the Ottawa community will pressure for us to get some help."
Yesterday, the Canadian Embassy in Haiti was able to reach the orphanage by helicopter and delivered the children their first supplies of food and water in almost a week.
Mr. Noel asked the officials to take the children, but was told there was nowhere for them to go.
Homer: Nobody special enough, Curly.
Curly: You mean somebody has?
Homer: Only the right people can have you. Now what do you say we go unpack your suitcase?- Cider House Rules
It's a terrible thing for a child not to be wanted. They needed clean water and a real government in Haiti before the quake hit. The whole island is a prison. I could hardly believe it when one local bigot wrote a letter to the newspaper recently. They said Canada already has over 150, 000 Haitians now as it is and the Canadian government is overworked as things are. Sometimes I'd like to vote some Canadians off the island for good.
Family class refugees I'd be fine with Fidel. Please don't push this. I understand your anger, I'm feeling it too.
The only thing worse for a child in these cases is for them to figure out that they aren't wanted. In much of Latin America children are a burden on their families until they are big enough to cut cane or pick coffee and fruit. Haiti's a shithole. It's no place for children.
Why do people have to own the child? Why can't they get the same satisfaction out of paying for these children to grow up in their own culture. They'd probably even get bigger hugs from the kids when they visit.
It's about the children, left?
The only thing worse for a child in these cases is for them to figure out that they aren't wanted.
I think you're missing the bigger picture. What makes you think it will be easier for them away from their family?
Fidel, plenty has been posted about the corruption of these countries by you, yourself.
Peddle that agenda elsewhere.
The only thing worse for a child in these cases is for them to figure out that they aren't wanted.
I think you're missing the bigger picture. What makes you think it will be easier for them away from their family?
What families? If you bothered to read the Canada.com article, Father Noel is in charge of orphans, which would imply that they have no legal guardians other than caretakers of the orphanage where they are sick and without medical treatment. What about the dirty water that existed before the quake, the dirty water, the typhoid, the malnutrition and despair they endured while a client state of Uncle Sam's?
Why would anyone in their right minds recommend that orphans remain in Haiti under those conditions even before this disaster of natural and artificial circumstances occurred?
Haiti is a shithole, and Canada has bags of room for desperate people. Give us their tired and oppressed and downtrodden people.
In fact, I think we should accept LOTS of desperately poor black people from Uncle Sam's backyard as legally defined political and economic refugees that they are. This is no time for US hypocrisy Canadian style.
I like that idea. You would just have to be sure the money was going to that kid and not into the pockets of others.
Why do people have to own the child? Why can't they get the same satisfaction out of paying for these children to grow up in their own culture. They'd probably even get bigger hugs from the kids when they visit.
It's about the children, left?
Fidel you'd be the most hated Canadian in Canada if that ever happened. Those Hatians would kill you for putting them in such a cold place....LOL
Haiti is a shithole, and Canada has bags of room for desperate people. Give us their tired and oppressed and downtrodden people.
In fact, I think we should accept LOTS of desperately poor black people from Uncle Sam's backyard as legally defined political and economic refugees that they are. This is no time for US hypocrisy Canadian style.
...
Fidel, you also haven't read the other links in this thread. I get you dude. Don't do it as a white guy in the anti-racism forum, in case you didn't notice where you're posting.
Fidel you'd be the most hated Canadian in Canada if that ever happened. Those Hatians would kill you for putting them in such a cold place....LOL
Haiti is a shithole, and Canada has bags of room for desperate people. Give us their tired and oppressed and downtrodden people.
In fact, I think we should accept LOTS of desperately poor black people from Uncle Sam's backyard as legally defined political and economic refugees that they are. This is no time for US hypocrisy Canadian style.
I guess we don't have any black or Hispanic people from the Caribbean or Latin America living in Canada then? I know it's all white in Canada right now with the snow and everything, but have a look around some time. We even have some people here from the warmer climes of Mediterranean, Africa, Middle East, India, Pakistan, southern China etc. And they just don some tuques and mufflers on in winter. It's not impossible.
Thanks for helping the drift Fidel. I know you mean well but you're pissing me off.
I get more mad at my favorite babblers sometimes.
...
Fidel, you also haven't read the other links in this thread. I get you dude. Don't do it as a white guy in the anti-racism forum, in case you didn't notice where you're posting.
And I am no stranger to foster children and children who've been thrown up rather than brought up. Those countries will never receive enough aid money from foreigners to make a real difference. Foreigners and foreign advice are not the answer to Haiti's problems after so many years of US-CIA and Military interventions in their country. Haiti needs socialism. But first they need the US meddling in Haiti to stop and for the Haitian based revolution to occur naturally. In the meantime, the people are desperately poor and need any help they can get. And they're not just poor in the same sense that millions are hopelessly poor in other US sponsored shitholes. They're really poor.
The media doesn't spare any attention for the thousands of destitute orphaned kids in Gaza, Iraq and Afghanistan. Caring is political, in the sense that as sheep, the adoption seeking public doesn't give a fuck about the unmitigated suffering spread about the planet by neo-colonialism, until the media and government selectively says its ok to give a fuck.
The only thing worse for a child in these cases is for them to figure out that they aren't wanted. In much of Latin America children are a burden on their families until they are big enough to cut cane or pick coffee and fruit. Haiti's a shithole. It's no place for children.
Mod hat on.
Fidel, the above is grossly racist and highly offensive. This isn't the first time you've used the phrase "shithole" to describe an entire country. If you don't see why it's highly offensive you will have to take my word for it. Stop it now.
Mod hat off.
MrNobody, I think that people who do international adoptions do so with the best of intentions, and they really want to provide a good life for a child, and they really want a child to raise. I don't think attacking individual families is helpful and that's not really what we're doing here, I don't think.
What we're doing is talking about the racism in our society that makes this sort of thing not only acceptable, but admirable, to take individual children out of a poor country instead of working to ensure that the country itself can support its children.
The only thing worse for a child in these cases is for them to figure out that they aren't wanted. In much of Latin America children are a burden on their families until they are big enough to cut cane or pick coffee and fruit. Haiti's a shithole. It's no place for children.
Mod hat on.
Fidel, the above is grossly racist and highly offensive. This isn't the first time you've used the phrase "shithole" to describe an entire country. If you don't see why it's highly offensive you will have to take my word for it. Stop it now.
Mod hat off.
I am older than you and have two university degrees. But I have no idea that what I wrote is racist, no. It's a complete surprise to me. I think there are people on this board who are hypersensitive to my criticisms of the US and its failed client states though. That's what I think.
Here is how the CIA describes Haiti's economy prior to the earthquake. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ha.html
Economy - overview:
Haiti is the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere with 80% of the population living under the poverty line and 54% in abject poverty. Two-thirds of all Haitians depend on the agricultural sector, mainly small-scale subsistence farming, and remain vulnerable to damage from frequent natural disasters, exacerbated by the country's widespread deforestation. While the economy has recovered in recent years, registering positive growth since 2005, four tropical storms in 2008 severely damaged the transportation infrastructure and agricultural sector. US economic engagement under the Haitian Hemispheric Opportunity through Partnership Encouragement (HOPE) Act, passed in December 2006, has boosted apparel exports and investment by providing tariff-free access to the US. A second version of the legislation, passed in October 2008 and dubbed HOPE II, has further improved the export environment for the apparel sector by extending preferences to 2018; the apparel sector accounts for two-thirds of Haitian exports and nearly one-tenth of GDP. Remittances are the primary source of foreign exchange, equaling nearly a quarter of GDP and more than twice the earnings from exports. Haiti suffers from a lack of investment because of insecurity and limited infrastructure, and a severe trade deficit. In 2005, Haiti paid its arrears to the World Bank, paving the way for reengagement with the Bank. Haiti received debt forgiveness for about $525 million of its debt through the Highly-Indebted Poor Country (HIPC) initiative in 2009. The government relies on formal international economic assistance for fiscal sustainability.
The CIA? On Haiti? Now THAT is racist.
Did I mention I had three degrees?
Did I mention I had three degrees?
Why not post something by Baby Doc Duvalier, or the CIA's former counterparts in Haiti, the tonton macoutes and provoke a fight with absolutely everyone on the left? I would never be so insensitive to Haitians and friends of Haiti by post anything published by such a racist group of motherfuckers as the American CIA.
I think you need to read the CIA quote in light of your being berated by Maysie Fidel.
Back to adoptions. Doesn't Canada have a history of saving children? Wasn't it once fashionable for "white" Canadians to adopt First Nations children? I believe Barbara and Murray Frum did exactly that. Another chapter in the shameful treatment of Canada's First Peoples.
Now fast forward to the 21st c. It seems it is now fashionable to adopt children from other countries because we believe we can give them a better life in Canada.
I think you need to read the CIA quote in light of your being berated by Maysie Fidel.
I'd prefer it if you removed that paternalistic nonsense from the American CIA you posted above. You don't want us to think you support the brutal colonizers in Haiti, or do you?
Oh, Fidel. I just thought the CIA description was a longer way of saying the word you got berated for using. Obviously, you don't seem to agree.
Fidel.
Using the word "shithole" to describe a country that liberated itself from slavery, and has been hounded and oppressed by the West, and is, OMG, populated by POC, Black folks no less, is racist.
And you were not berated, which is a fascinating term to downplay my very real directive. You might want to think about where that comes from.
And do you agree with the very racist CIA's overall assessment of the Haitian economy?
I used the word "berated," not Fidel. I'd hate for him to be scolded for my sins.
To answer Fidel's question, the CIA's description is mired in the capitalist framework and should be read as such.
Fidel.
Using the word "shithole" to describe a country that liberated itself from slavery, and has been hounded and oppressed by the West, and is, OMG, populated by POC, Black folks no less, is racist.
And you were not berated, which is a fascinating term to downplay my very real directive. You might want to think about where that comes from.
It was Caissa who said you berated me and not I.
What about the US-CIA and Military that have invaded Haiti over 20 some-odd times to put down popular peoples rebellions against brutal US-backed regimes theyve propped up in Port Au Prince? And Caissa's post up there is full of CIA baloney on Haiti a few posts up there. Would you say that Haiti is a democracy today after dozens of CIA and US military interventions on the island? Is Haiti a democracy today and not a US-sponosred hellhole as a result?
Maysie, the CIA and their former counterparts in Haiti, the vicious tonton macoutes are symbols of oppression for very many Haitians today. I am appalled that you are allowing that racist gibberish from the CIA on Haiti to remain nailed up for all to see. And in a thread about Haitian orphans, too. Did you know what the CIA's counterparts in Haiti are guilty of having done to children there in the recent past? This thread has taken a very racist turn for the worst imo. It's shocking really.
I used the word "berated," not Fidel. I'd hate for him to be scolded for my sins.
To answer Fidel's question, the CIA's description is mired in the capitalist framework and should be read as such.
Whether you understand the CIA and US military's very racist history in Haiti or not, I'd still prefer it if you took my word for it and removed that nonsense published by that US agency and symbol of oppression in Haiti. I think it would be a small gesture of solidarity for the desperately poor Haitians and friends of Haiti everywhere who you are offending by it.
Fidel, that was humor... I guess it dosen't come over well over the internet.
Once all the poor Haitians are up there in Canada living off your milk and honey I guess Haiti will become a resort island for the rich and famous then right?
Fidel you'd be the most hated Canadian in Canada if that ever happened. Those Hatians would kill you for putting them in such a cold place....LOL
Haiti is a shithole, and Canada has bags of room for desperate people. Give us their tired and oppressed and downtrodden people.
In fact, I think we should accept LOTS of desperately poor black people from Uncle Sam's backyard as legally defined political and economic refugees that they are. This is no time for US hypocrisy Canadian style.
I guess we don't have any black or Hispanic people from the Caribbean or Latin America living in Canada then? I know it's all white in Canada right now with the snow and everything, but have a look around some time. We even have some people here from the warmer climes of Mediterranean, Africa, Middle East, India, Pakistan, southern China etc. And they just don some tuques and mufflers on in winter. It's not impossible.
Talked with the wife last night and we are going to look into sponsoring a family/child in Haiti. Thanks for the idea revolution please.
Of course my biggest concern is making sure the money goes to the family and not picked over by second and third parties. If anybody has any links to organizations that they know are good for this please post them here. There are a million of them on the internet and it looks like a daunting task.
Fidel.
Using the word "shithole" to describe a country that liberated itself from slavery, and has been hounded and oppressed by the West, and is, OMG, populated by POC, Black folks no less, is racist.
And you were not berated, which is a fascinating term to downplay my very real directive. You might want to think about where that comes from.
Who is downplaying what here? Youve insinuated that I am a racist now for the umpteenth time on babble, and absurd accusations they were to say the least. In another example, what was apartheid South Africa if not a shithole sponsored by the democratic western world and slave wage prison for black people? And so now I must ask you again directly, Maysie, why you are allowing that symbol of US oppression and very racist policies for Haiti to remain nailed up in Caissa's post above? We've got racism coming out of the woodwork here.
Fidel, you're right about Caissa's post #75 above. And I apologize for mistakenly attibuting the "berating" comment to you.
Caissa, don't reproduce CIA racist crap on babble, unless using it to prove a point about what racist imperialist murderous fucks they are. And even then, please use and link sparingly. In all the threads on babble about Haiti in the past 2 weeks there have been many links to community-based groups that are based in Haiti, or are international groups that work directly with folks in Haiti. They have far more credibility than the CIA. Sheesh.
And Fidel, I called the word you used ("shithole") a racist term to describe Haiti. Which it is. I did not say you were racist. Whether you like it or not, there is a difference.
And if you guys can't imagine what it means to call the actions of a female moderator "berating" and "scolding", I suggest you think about that. Again.
And a reminder that this is the ANTI-RACISM forum.
Frankly, I think your accusation of my post being racist is as specious as the accusation made against you.
My post was designed to make a point about why Haiti is where it is at.
Would you object to me using a quote from Mein Kampf over a discussion of the Holocaust?
I suppose you would.
Fair enough. And you can ignore all the venomous bs I just sent in a flagged for moderator alert.
Thanks Maysie. Sorry Caissa.
:(
Cassia, Fidel, if you don't mind me asking what do you have degree's in?
I have a BSc in B.S. and still working on a master's
And you can ignore all the venomous bs I just sent in a flagged for moderator alert.
:(
We always do Fidel
BA and MA in History. ABD on a History PhD. A B.Ed. and courses towards a Learning Disability Specialist diploma. Thanks for asking P4.
I flagged #90 as offensive but of course moderates will continue to be allowed to use the language and tone they see fit.
I chose my words intentionally because as far as I'm concerned it describes the repressive behaviour we often see around here and frankly I'm sick of vbeing silent about. And spare me the if you don't like it Caissa feel free to go some where else meme.
Caissa, darling, sweetie-pie, what was in your cornflakes this morning, huh, muffin?
Here's what I said that has you all in a tizzy:
You dispute this? Really?
And the meme holds.
You wanna talk about how great and neutral and objective the "data" is from the CIA, there are many places for you to go. You repost crap like that and you will get told.
Have a great day, pumpkin.
Read post #91, Maysie. Also, think of the reaction if I posted the sexist crap you wrote in #97. I presume its meant to be ironic sexism. I also presume that's as verboten as ironic racism. Of course, moderators can often be above the law.
Yes, Maysie, please stop discriminating against men. You're so sexist! Heh.
In other news, I'm closing this whinefest.