Poverty and racial minorities

Why we must talk about race when we talk about poverty

quote:Missing in the mainstream narrative is the observation that most newcomers today are from racialized communities – in contrast to 25 years ago – and that they are struggling economically despite their educational advantage over other Canadians.

Absent also is the fact that the newcomer experience is shockingly similar to that of members of racialized communities who are Canadian-born. Racialized newcomers are not the only ones who are losing ground. So are the second-generation, Canadian-born members of racialized groups, despite having higher levels of education than their cohort.

In other words, it is not that immigrants need more time to settle and catch up, it is about racialized communities lagging behind as a group – whether or not they are immigrants. Class distinction in Canada is becoming ever more a racial divide.

Those who deny poverty is racialized are not necessarily being nefarious. Like most Canadians, they have bought into our stated multicultural ideal of an equal society where everyone, regardless of race, enjoys equal rights and opportunities. It is an ideal we all share.

But beyond the lip service that is often paid, we as a society have not done nearly enough to address the structural and systemic racism that exists and its harmful consequences. Our collective denial is the biggest stumbling block to achieving racial equality.

Admitting that poverty in Canada is racialized is not an easy step to take, but a necessary one if we want to develop an effective anti-poverty strategy that addresses the root causes of poverty.

What we need urgently is a comprehensive poverty reduction plan that integrates a broad range of universal initiatives, accompanied by specific targeted measures to remedy the different underlying sources of vulnerability that expose racialized – and other disadvantaged – communities to poverty disproportionately.

quote:Originally posted by bigcitygal:
Please note the huge level of discussion generated when I started this thread on the report "The Colour of Poverty" back in January 08.

Sorry to drift your well-discussed thread on babble. Alas, I missed the conversation on how to deal with this in Canada. I'm open to learning but I'm still pessimistic in coming to terms with the abhorrent racism in Canada.

ETA: edited to fix abhorent

[ 10 June 2008: Message edited by: RevolutionPlease ]

[ 10 June 2008: Message edited by: RevolutionPlease ]

quote:Originally posted by KenS:

You either didn't look at the thread or missed the irony. [And probably the first led to the second.]

At any rate- bcg is being ironic. There were zsro posts in the thread after she opened it.

So if anything, she's likely happy to see that at least someone is bringing the issue here again.

Thanks KenS, I did click the link before I responded and was responding in kind.

This part really strikes me how far there is to go:

quote:So are the second-generation, Canadian-born members of racialized groups, despite having higher levels of education than their cohort.

Some upcoming events in Toronto.

quote:Daily Struggles: The Deepening Racialization and Feminization of Poverty in Canada
edited by Maria A. Wallis and Siu-ming Kwok

FRIDAY JUNE 20, 7pm

toronto women’s bookstore
73 harbord st
all welcome!

we regret our bathroom is not wheelchair accessible

Daily Struggles offers a unique, critical perspective on poverty by highlighting gender and race analyses simultaneously. Unlike previously published Canadian books in this field, this book connects human rights, political economy perspectives, and citizenship issues to other areas of social exclusion, such as class, sexuality, and disability.

Masterfully edited and presented, Daily Struggles opens with theoretical frameworks that examine the racialization processes at work in Canada, with special attention to the consequences relevant
to gender. The social construction of “race” and its subsequent devaluation and marginalization has several implications for racialized individuals, especially racialized women. This much needed
text examines other ways in which racialized people are socially constructed to experience their lives as second-class Canadian citizens and concludes by presenting additional consequences of the racialized and gendered nature of poverty—consequences that have a fundamental impact on quality of life.

About the editors:
MARIA A. WALLIS holds a Ph.D. in Sociology, with specialties in anti-racism and social inequality. She has taught at King’s University College at The University of Western Ontario, McMaster University, Wilfrid Laurier University and York University.

Siu-ming Kwok is Assistant Professor in the School of Social Work at King’s University College at The University of Western Ontario.

co-sponsored by Canadian Scholars Press

quote:
HANDS OFF POOR PEOPLE PARK TAKEOVER

Saturday, June 21st 4PM
Allan Gardens (Jarvis and Carleton)

Free Meals

Stop tickets and harassment.
End the Safe Streets Act.
Food and shelter now.

The Mayor, the cops and the rich are pushing poor people out of the downtown core. The shelters are full but people are ticketed for sleeping
in parks. In the past 2 years, we have lost over 300 beds and tens of thousands of meals. As we fight for housing and adequate income, we must
have our basic needs met - we need food and shelter now.

As the oversupply of housing for the well off creeps into poor areas of the City, as a ruthless drive to push out the homeless gathers force.
People are targeted by the cops who are dramatically changing the downtown
core. Our corners are monitored by video cameras that watch us go hungry while the cops get budget increases. Panhandlers and other poor people
are ticketed on an almost daily basis and at a rate that has increased nearly 300% in the last 3 years. This isn’t about catching ‘criminals’,
it is about social cleansing – driving poor people out of the neighbourhood.

OCAP has taken the lead in resisting this outrageous situation. We held a mass panhandle in the underground 'Path' commercial network. We have taken delegations to City Hall to expose and challenge the neglect. We set up a special night of shelter to coincide with the end of the 'Out of
the Cold' program. This laid bare the fact that hundreds more have nowhere to turn and must go back to the streets.

Nine years ago, in response to the homeless crisis, targeted policing and gentrification, OCAP held a Safe Park in Allan Gardens. Tragically, now nearly a decade later, things are even worse.

We will be taking Allan Gardens over and making it a safe place for people to eat and to sleep. We will hold the park as a place of safety and
solidarity for people denied shelter from the wind, the rain and the cops.

Come out and show your support for the poor people on our streets and demand food and shelter for all!

For Information, to make a donation or endorse this event please contact:
Ontario Coalition Against Poverty
10 Britain St. Toronto, ON M5A 1R6
416-925-6939 ocap@tao.ca

ocap

quote:
Sistering, Street Health and the Ontario Women's Health Network invite women to:

Back Talk-Women Speak about Reducing Poverty in their Lives.

Monday, June 23
3:30-6:30 pm
Sistering
962 Bloor St. W.(Ossington subway station)

Come to the forum and have your say about what the government should do in a comfortable, women's space. Minister Deb Matthews, women who are
members of the Cabinet Committee on Poverty Reduction, and other influential women have
been invited to listen to what you have to say.

Discussion facilitated by Angela Robertson & Pat Capponi. Refreshments provided. TTC available.

The stats are even worse the closer you get to them.
You see comparisons of people employment, poverty and income between the general population and that of immigrant and visible minority groups. The relative difference is misleading.

Say, for example, the general population has a poverty rate of 20% and visible minority groups 30%. At first one might think that you are one third more likely to be poor if you of a visible minority. But consider this: there are people who are poor for a variety of other reasons- illnesses and learning disabilities for example. When you factor out these other social determinants the gap between visible minorities and non-minority groups widens. In other words the gap between those who are low income without any explanation (other than race/racism) who are visible minorities from those who are not is much more pronounced.

The fact that even those who are so exceptionally fortunate as to be able to overcome the disadvantages along the way to equal qualifications/education still earn so much less is depressing.

Nobody wants to be poor. There are key determinants observable by statistics. That race is one of them seems beyond question. The trouble is we don't want to consider our society to be racist and we don't want to confront this one. It seems easier to address some of the other causes of poverty- even if they are less pervasive because they do not lead to as many serious questions about ourselves. We want to look at what it is about them as to why they are poor rather than look at ourselves as a cause (I am saying this as a white person).

One reason is that we accept and teach each other that the way to get a job is through networking. through your friends- your contacts from school etc. This is considered acceptable even when it starts to border on outright nepotism. Trouble is we don't see this as exclusionary- we assume everyone has equal access to these connections or should go out an make them. Of course this is not the case. People go through their entire lives living off a social network most start while they are in school. Immigrant communities in particular by definition do not have this. If we accept the grapevine and networking as the way to hire, we may not like to admit it but we are participating in a basically racist exercise. Most people do not have a diverse network and so the people they hire will represent that same old power network they always had while pretending they are not racist.

All those innocuous practices like "internal posts" contribute to this problem. Then when the interview begins- employers ask questions related to interests. Sounds culturally neutral but it's not. You relate more to those interests that mirror your own. When you bring in to the hiring process many personal questions, you risk relating to people most like yourself (which actually is not a good practice in hiring since normally when hiring you should be looking for the skills you are missing not those you have already).

The point I am making is that many people hiring think that it is some mean-spirited racist somewhere else behind these stats and do not recognize the role they play in the problem. To that end awareness is critical and so a discussion of racialized poverty is so essential.

Perhaps a factsheet could be added covering those practices people think are racially neutral but are in fact contributors to this problem. There is a lot in common to the glass ceiling women face where discrimination is at times direct and overt and at other times it is inadvertent, careless and ignorant.

[ 17 June 2008: Message edited by: Sean in Ottawa ]

Sean, that was a fabulous post. Thank-you!

I agree great post Sean. I recently heard a sad statistic Hamilton Ontario.

According to a presenter from the Hamilton poverty roundtable Hamilton has a total population of roughly 480,000 people and over 95,000 or 20% live below the poverty line.

I do not have stats for other minority or ethnic groups but their are roughly 4500 Jewish people in Hamilton according to the 2001 census over 750 live below the poverty line.

It is shocking how poverty can impact not only racial groups but also new immigrants, eldery and children.

BCG the stats the JPJ provided are simply shocking and those numbers do speak about poverty and racial minorities.

It is also true that poverty does not just impact children but each of the groups mentioned. Yes race plays a key role but poverty strikes not just by race buy also by age.

In many cases age and race are the issue.

quote:Originally posted by miles:
BCG the stats the JPJ provided are simply shocking and those numbers do speak about poverty and racial minorities.

If JPJ posted any "stats" it would include a link, like the OP and would stay on topic with respect to Canada as a whole. There are clearly defined statistics bearing this out in clear view that racialized minorities have the poverty title dominated along with single mothers and children unfortunately.

I'm going to see what I can find on single white men with children. It's quite elusive though.

Thanks for bringing this thread back to the limelight so to speak. as we head into provincial elections across this country over the next 6 months it will be interesting to see what if any lip service and then real results parties talk about. In Ontario we had the utter failure of the poverty reduction plan put forward by the liberal government. a plan that lacked any and all funding to try to do something.

i was at a 3 year anniversary of the same presentation that i referenced up above -- the one where the stats were questioned because i read from the documents given out rather than posting as a .pdf i guess.  and the stats have gotten worse

poverty is attacking along racial and age lines, it is attacking new immigrants and those who have lived in Canada for a while and it is attacking those who by the colour of their skin may not be seen as minorities but by stats can records on religious or ethinic group size they are

So i ask a very simple question. What are we doing to eradicate poverty once and for all?

800,000 Canadians now rely on food banks to survive. 

I posted those stats in some other thread and was greeted with a throw away line about it was due to the housing market collapse.  While superficially that is true it of course doesn't take into account the sub-prime ponzi scheme that most Blacks and Hispanics were FORCED into because that is the only kinds of loans available to them.  The bubble burst and they lost even thought they never wanted to play in that casino in the first place.

I think it is low as well.

Sure ok so I'll say the obvious -- it is an income problem as well as a housing problem.

People make too little.

Housing costs too much.

For some unbelievably stupid reason we run our cities on a housing tax. People often go to foodbanks to make the rent or mortgage when that includes a substantial housing tax.

In Ottawa a typical House has property tax of $4,000  a year (For apartments this is built in and at a higher rate relative to value). That is $333/month or about $500 before taxes. Minimum wage in Ontario is $10/hour and many minimum wage jobs only give 20 hours a week which works out to $866/month. A municipal income tax could be a better approach. We need to stop taxing non-existant incomes. Or at least have some kind of basic exemption so the monster homes get taxed and others are not.

On income we need to stop so many employers from putting people on call and not paying for it-- if an employer has an employee that they do not give a fixed schedule for then they need to pay for the available time in some way because that prevents a part time employee from getting a second job. That is just one example.

Our system is so twisted there are many things conspiring against low income and even middle income Canadians.

Free transit is another policy we need.

Child care...

In other words-- we have a poverty problem not a foodbank problem. Poverty necessarily causes foodbanks we need to reduce poverty to reduce foodbank use.

I use the 800,000 number because that is what is officially admitted to.  I don't dispute the numbers could be far higher.  This thread is about poverty and minorities.  I don't know about where you live but where I live the face of the people relying on food banks is a lot less white than the general population. 

Housing costs are one of the primary reasons for poverty in Metro Vancouver.  When one makes $9 to $10 an hour it is really difficult to keep a roof over ones head and so you line up for food since it only costs you time not money. Here is a flavour for those of you who don't quite understand the cost of housing on this coast.

http://apartmentguide.ca/Apartments/Vancouver/rentals.asp

That is true of immigrants.  In Burnaby we have a large refugee community and they often come here with little or nothing and their struggle just to survive is immense.

Poverty is a macro issue and I think that it's not just limited to refugees, immigrants or minorities. That said the root of poverty comes from lack of acceptance.

Tolerance is code for "I don't like you or your skin color or sexual orientation or your weight... or fill in whatever it is that differentiates the person.. but I'm doing something wonderful by putting up with you".

Acceptance is "I look at you as a person as a real human being".

It's actually interesting because an Arabic woman who is trilingual and works at CIC once told me that racism comes in many forms and in Canada, it's the quiet bigotry that gets us all. The death by a thousand paper cuts. The co-workers and peers who won't accept you and won't even acknowledge you in their presence. Won't even say hello and walk right by you like you are invisible. It was chlling because it reminded me of how apartheid South Africa would have worked when the cleaning women were in the offices cleaning for the white collar workers.

I've experienced that many days in my life including today. Even in my business people are hateful, simple minded and not wanting to accept anyone who doesn't look like them.

The irony? I"m not actually poor at this point in my life but then a Caucasian person would be doing my job right out of school!

 Canada is the land of quiet polite racism so it's slightly better than other places so poverty should be a feature of minorities and immigrants. But that's just my perceptions and who am I?

Thanks for that. I think it is very important to be acknowledged and get recognition, even in the samallest ways. It's interesting you mentioned roommates. During my hardest times I remember my roommates were: Italian guy who actually was born here but tried his best to help me, and Aboriginal guy who also went above and beyond to do the same. It was a moment in time when three people got together and helped each other in times of need.

I certainly don't see this version of Canada in the same context. I can't be uppity and I can't be who I am because now, Canadians are being exposed to a level of downspeak that I would think would have been prevalent in the Mississippi of the 1960's. (And shame on you Sun News Network for showing MLK's image in your bumpers!!!!)

I remember bitter memories of Canadians who thought I was disposable labor. Some people on this forum see me as pro-American but in reality I see Americans at the face-to-face level as more accepting. Canadians don't do that very well. I can tell you that I have never had an American speak to me the way Canadians communicate with me.

Hey Sean. I am basing my opinions on my experiences through travel, work and observations. If I look back at the people who treat me with some respect and acknowledge that I am a person, it has seemed to me that Americans have respected that a lot more than Canadians.

I'm not sure why, but Canadians see anyone who isn't Caucasian and descended from the motherland, as a non-Canadian and a second class citizen. When I look at some of the best work I did, it was for an American airline, and some of the friendliest people I met during that time were Americans. During my job interviews I was treated with respect. During my training I was treated with respect.

Canada in comparison was a freakin gong show with derisive downspeak and an insulting attitude that remains to this day. I find Canadians think I should not be in my present occupation. It's too uppity. I have worked with immigrants who have told me the same thing.

When I taught English overseas - it was the same. The Americans were so friendly and so easy to talk to. The few Canadians were standoffish. I just think that creating a self righteous culture to fight the onslaught of American culture is not the solution. It's simply not being a grown up country.

Anyways, back to topic. Yes poverty is going to haunt minorities and immigrants for a long time in this country. It was like that 30-40 years ago, why should anything change? I used to tell people that I couldn't get job interviews because I had an ethnic name. Well 15 years later that fact was proven true by studies. But too late for me and the doubters who used to tell me it was my fault and that I wasn't trying hard enough.

On your last paragraph -- I have written here about my observations of how employment works. I am skeptical that it is your name so much as a very strong series of prejudicial networks (nepotism is alive and well here) and both in-your-face racism and the more difficult to combat kind where so many people hire others they think they can relate to -- based on superficiality-- hiring people they think are like them.

Of course I think we all like to be around some people who are like ourselves. I have found however that skin colour is no predictor of that in my case. Some of the people I have found most compatible and similar to my outlook have had very different cultural backgrounds than my own. Perhaps in time people will learn that you can't predict so easily who is sympatico and looking like you certainly is misleading.

When it comes to hiring-- when I hired people I made a point of hiring people I thought were not like myself-- as I wanted to bring in personalities that were different. But  not all think that way.

In the end I hope that we can see each other as people not Canadians or Americans or cultures or races. Those labels mean very little when we get to know each other better.

Our problem is partly that we tell each other how great we are so often that people believe it and then when someone comes along and says the emperor has no clothes they get slammed because people are just not ready for that kind of self evaluation.

The US in spite of its faults is at least largely aware that it is faulty.

In this sense I agree with you I think entirely.

I do hope that more honest evaluations is starting to happen here and there is a growing awareness but this is taking a long time. Canada had been a colonial class-ridden outpost for so long. Nepotism is rampant here -- that I am going to have to agree with as well.

I wish I could dispute what you are saying but I simply cannot. I do hope it will get better and I hope there will be a backlash against this hard right agenda and propaganda at some point soon.

It's more than that Sean, that's why I think CBC actually got it right with one specific episode with KYR. The one about racial minorities and jobs.

You know, I wouldn't normally do this on an online forum, but as a minor two bit guy, I was ushered away from the Great Leader during an appearance in AB at a certain news media conference? The other MSM camera people were given the center spot, I was told - well no way, you're not good  enough to get the Great Leader's great shot.

And you know who did it? A south asian gal who works for him. That should tell you a lot about ethnic bribery.

I've always had a very negative knee jerk reaction to "toleration", "tolerate". These are negative words in my view.

I'm with those who would rather embrace and celebrate differences. For me, this is how we start breaking down the walls between communities and races. Words like tolerate remind me of what I saw in India. People accepted that poor, lower caste people lived among them but did not give a damn of ever changing a system that would rank people as some more worthy than others. I imagine apartheid South Africa was similar. Society was structured to benefit from those relegated to the poorer classes so they had no need for seething hatred, just toleration and maintaining the status quo.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you can be tolerant and still a racist.

The Contemporary Condition

From a couple of years back but describing the ever more vogue.