Why should you die for a transfer?
July 20, 2011 - 12:22pm
When police stopped a teenager stepping off the T-train yesterday to show his transfer as proof he'd paid his fare - $2 at most - he ran from them. They shot him as many as 10 times in the back and neck, according to witnesses. For many long minutes, as a crowd watched in horror, the boy, who had fallen to the sidewalk a block away, lay in a quickly growing pool of blood writhing in pain and trying to lift himself up as the cops trained their guns on him and threatened bystanders.
Bayview - National Black Newspaper
"As the state has removed any illusion that it exists to serve or protect people, we can see clearly that it exists only to push us into prisons and to shoot us in cold blood. Two single dollars are worth more to them than our lives. The very existence of the police clearly endangers all of us," concluded an anonymous writer on Indybay.
A comment on YouTube under the video, "SFPD Ruthlessly Shoots and Kills Unarmed 19yr old Man over $2 Bus Fair," posted above, reflects the common wisdom in the community that this was a public execution with a purpose: "The white man did the same thing during slavery. They would take a Black man and whip him or kill him in front of all the slaves, to make sure the slaves got the picture of who's in control."
What an awful, awful story. What monsters.
He's a wanted murderer? Not trying to legitimize the police abuse..
It's a diversionary question. He is a person of interest in a murder (not a wanted murderer--see how soon langugae gets twisted?) in Washington State. Did the cops know this when they shot him down? Police evidence says that the victim had a gun and shot first (once) at police. The police then shot him nine times in the back and neck.
When faced with situations like this--which never, ever, ever happen in white neighbourhoods--we have to ask not what "evidence" excuses or even mitigates police violence and brutality, but what were all the circumstances together that led to the death of this young man.
According to the Chronicle article he drew a gun and fired on them.
Presumably there would have been witnesses on the scene to confirm that story, though the paper only cites the police as a source.
They do report that some people on the scene thought it was an overreaction.
(edit)
And a pregnant woman was also shot and killed in the incident.
http://www.blackmediascoop.com/2011/07/17/teen-gunned-down-by-cops-over-...
No that was a different incident that the police are trying to use to justify murdering people in the streets.
I would believe the witnesses who all claim that this young man did not fire a gun. But even if he did fire one shot he was gunned down from behind while trying to run away. The police seemed to think they are not only cops but the prosecution and judge all wrapped up in one. If you are running away your are guilty of something and ergo can be executed.
Make no mistake this was not an attempt at an arrest this was an execution.
@ NS
You're right about the other shooting. THanks.
As for this one, yes, I read the reports too that a number of people did not see a gun. THe fact that the cops wouldn't try to help the man after he was on the ground was despicable. As for the rest of it, I think it is prudent to wait and find out if that gun was fired, and if his prints are on it.
As horrible as the actions of the cops might have been, I think everyone knows what the deal is when you draw a gun in their presence.
I am not trying to excuse the cops' actions, but IF that fellow did indeed have a gun, I am sure he knew that better than you or me.
As horrible as the actions of the cops might have been, I think everyone knows what the deal is when you draw a gun in their presence.
I am not trying to excuse the cops' actions, but IF that fellow did indeed have a gun, I am sure he knew that better than you or me.
Yup if he had drawn a gun and fired he would have been immediately shot in the chest ten times. He was shot in the back and I don't believe for a minute the cops would have held their fire long enough for him to turn around and run.
In the time it takes to draw aim and fire back, he is not standing still so he could easily have turned around by the time they fired.
Not for 10 times in the back tho, that makes it an execution or the actions of inexperienced not well trained paniced officers.
I know which way I would bet on that
Killed for riding while poor.
For the last few years, police presence on Muni has increased — as have attacks on poor people and people of color whose only crime is not having enough money to ride the increasingly expensive so-called public transportation known as Muni. From fare inspectors working for Muni to fully armed officers, they form a terrifying mob waiting menacingly at bus stops in the Mission, Ingleside, Bayview, and Tenderloin, and then enter buses to harass, eject, and cite anyone too poor to ride.
The police said the man pointed a gun. That's what they consistently claim when rationalizing involved shootings. Several eyewitnesses said otherwise.
But before we get caught up in whether he had a gun or not, let's stay with the real point: this young man was shot for not having a transfer. He was shot for not having $2. How did we get here?
Even if you are a supporter of the police, you have to see the Les Miserables-esque insanity in this shooting.
Police culture enables, allows, and encourages the use of deadly force — so much so that it seems at times as if killing can happen for any old thing. Throw in institutional racism and classism, and more and more people will not only be incarcerated but killed with impunity.
According to this there is video of someone picking up the gun and taking it from the scene.
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/07/17/police-fatally-shoot-fleeing...
And there are some very nasty comments.
And more:
http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2011/07/kenneth_harding_rally_turns_...
Well no using him as a poster boy for police abuse. He was a convicted child rapist and a suspect in a murder of a young woman.
Have to wait for the next innocent to be hurt for change there I conlude sadly
He had been released on parole in April after serving part of a 22-month sentence for attempting to promote prostitution in a case that involved a 14-year-old victim, and by being in San Francisco he was in violation of his parole, police Lt. Hector Sainez said.
Interesting how the negative aspects of this mans life is released before the paperwork is even done on the shooting though hmmm?
Well no using him as a poster boy for police abuse. He was a convicted child rapist and a suspect in a murder of a young woman.
I don't think that matters. Check out the article about the protest. The actions of the police, and what is apparently an ongiong situation there, are completely independent from him or whatever role he may have played in getting shot.
I don't buy the notion that he was shot for $2, but clearly this event has caused a backlash over a chronic situation. The last article I posted mentioned a similar shooting that happened in that area not too long ago.
Exactly.
Yes but I think it will all be swept under the rug as he is painted as satan incarnant. And protests will fade because none of them(organized groups participating in the protests) will wantn their line in the sand over him. It will wait until a real innocent is hurt and then he will be used in conjunction with that
The protests are happening as this info is being released. Wait until the weekend and see what the protest level is
No? Why was he accosted for a 2$ bus transfer in the first place? Why was he so panicked that he felt the need to fire a wayward shot at the police doing the accosting before fleeing (please note the difference between this question and why he might have simply "felt panicked")?
@ Catchfire
Well certainly the event was set in motion by the police stopping him, plus the air of fear and oppression that had apparently been in that area for some time.
But the fact remains that he was wanted, he did run, and most importantly there is a possibility that he had a gun and fired it. There are also reports he fired indiscriminately over his shoulder.
Not taking any responsibility away from the police, but there is a bit more to the shooting than the ticket. You can put the focus on that one element if you wish. I don't.
No? Why was he accosted for a 2$ bus transfer in the first place?
If you read through and go the links to other connected articles and watch the local news videos on them you'll see the police were conducting a fairs checkpoint at the gate he happened to be going through (they were looking for "gate jumpers")... the extra police presence in the area that day was the result of increase shootings in the area over the past few weeks. So there is some of the reason he got stopped and checked, he wasn't just randomly singled out and checked... he got caught up in a fairs check being conducted by the police at that gate. I'm assuming he didn't have the 2 dollar transfer ticket and the encounter escalated from there. He ran and apparently pulled a gun because he was a fugitive from Washington State and didn't want to get arrested; his decision cost him his life.
Thank you for the police-endorsed narrative which affirms the "we didn't have a choice" angle. Here's my version:
SF police were continuing their systemic and endemic surveillance and criminalization of its poor and racially marginalized communities, using past violence (also a result of their enduring war on poor and racially marginalized communisties) as an excuse to enact further collective coercion. This police action was so framed that the encounter in question was destined to become confrontational, leading an at-risk individual to believe the only choice he had to escape was to shoot wildly in a public place (exactlyt the kind of situation the "increased police presence" was meant to avoid or eliminate). While it is difficult to fault human beings for reacting recklessly in these situations (despite the fact they are supposed to be trained precisely to avoid such behaviour) since training in non-lethal de-escalation has been devalued at the expense of an increased militarization of the police force, the officers decided the best course of action was to shoot this young man in the neck, and then to bully and intimidate the aghast crowd as he slowly bled to death in broad daylight. Their decision(s) (many of which, at any point, could have been different) cost him his life.
Sounds good to me, I have no issue with you telling the story the way you want.