NB Politics Potpourri 2-All the little dirty secrets revealed.

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onlinediscountanvils

genstrike wrote:

Pierre C yr wrote:

He didnt just like a Facebook page of another party he liked a comment endorsing a vote for them. Thats the kind of thing that can get you turfed as a candidate. Facebook isnt a toy its a serious playing field for those looking for information on politics. 

Ive liked things on Facebook about other parties myself before but I would never endorse voting for them.

This doesn't seem a little ham-fisted and authoritarian?  As Caissa said, there were multiple comments in that post.  And it's a singular facebook like - it's not like he's riding around town with a bullhorn shouting "Vote Green!"

Especially when you compare it to last November, when the NB NDP posted an editorial on their website that referred to the Elsipogtog protestors as terrorists. Cardy justified the decision to post it without comment because it included a reference to the NDP, and their media policy was to highlight all press.

So re-publishing something that borders on hate speech is fine if it also happens to mention the NDP. But 'liking' a comment from another party? That's totally over the line.

KenS

genstrike wrote:

Because right now, it gives the impression that the head office was just looking for any speck of dirt that they could use to give Harrison a clear run at the nomination.  

This much: I seriously doubt it. Its not like Hampton was the only place that made sense for Harrison to run. In that situation, even in cynical politics, there isnt enough gain from getting him into a most favoured riding to recover the blowback a party ALWAYS gets fron pulling a candidate.

KenS

In other words, it may well be authoritarian and ham fisted the reasons they felt a need to get rid of him.

But looking for an excuse to get rid of him so they can have the seat open- I doubt it.

KenS

There may be more than meets the eye here. But in the Department of Perceptions, even if one assumes that turfing the candiate was done for reasons that had a solid basis, naming a new candidate when the corpse is not cold does seem a tad on the heedless side. And was it necessary with months until the election?

I think people overplay how 'right wing' Cardy is, but Dominic never was one for paying much attention to keeping the peace in the big tent.

carpenter

The prov. NDP knew for months that Harrison was interested. The real issue is why did they let someone file papers, approve that person as acceptable, then ask them to stand aside?

Pierre C yr

A journalist could have dug this endorsement up (or been offered it by another party who noticed it) and it would have made for a difficult day on the campaign trail for the candidate. "So it doesnt matter if you vote NDP or Green?"

Ive liked policies on other parties Facebook pages that emulated our own or was in the same vein, often mentionning NDP versions and options and often that we were originators of said ideas, and didnt get slapped down for it. But I would never in a million years endorse in anyway shape or form to vote for another party or candidate of another party as a standing candidate. Dominic himself admits to having done a lot of likes and comments on political Facebook pages but its a whole other kettle of fish when you support someone voting for another party.

You guys might think it was heavy handed but to me it was an automatic big nono. This guy was not cogent enough to be careful what he was doing publicly. He likely would screw up like this again and again. Justin Trudeau comes to mind. We dont need that.

 

Pierre C yr

Stockholm wrote:
The NDP will most definitely run a full slate of candidates. They ran a full slate in 2010 when they had far less support and we're far less organized than they are now. Also NB pays parties a per vote subsidy so a party would be crazy not to at least have a name on the ballot in every riding just to maximize its popular vote and get more revenue

 

You're right but a number of candidates were parachutes. If this guy had kept his nose clean and head clear he could easily have been put into any number of ridings with no local candidates.

 

David Hackett

To be fair here, the egreious part of this wasn't that he was liking someone voting for Coon, but that the post in question took a swipe at Cardy's veneration of Tony Blair.    I still think it goes overboard and doesn't pass the smell test, especially since both side agree they were trying to push him out prior to this action.   There are many reasons to like a post:  maybe he was supporting a friend's participation in democracy, mabe he found it funny even if he didn't entirely agree, or maybe, just maybe, he did find it a little ridiculous that the leader of a progressive party would hang a picture of someone widely seen as a war criminal and certainly seen as opposing progressive values above his desk.  Guess we'll never know.  ;)

Pierre C yr

Im no fan of Blair for his support of the US in Iraq but Ive little doubt any British leader at the time would have supported the US in that situation. Sometimes you are in historical circumstances that make you do bad decisions.

But to say Blair had no progressive values is nonsense. He reinvested in healthcare and other programs that no tory would have done. While no social democrat leader who fights and compromises his way into power will ever live up to the kind of socialism some people hope and expect we can expect moves to the left on essential programs from any NDP gov. That Ive little doubt on. 

If we can remain disciplined enough to not burn our internal bridges everytime theres a disagreement that is. 

carpenter

Compromise is a two way street, and there is not much evidence of that in the way this situation was handled.

 

Orangutan

The provincial wings elsewhere could learn a thing or two from the New Brunswick NDP - I can only imagine if the Ontario NDP had recruited two former Liberals and a sitting PC MPP that the image of the party would have been improved in the eyes of voters as one capable of winning power. 

The cranks on the left of the party need to tone it down and keep it inside the party.  We need to take a tempered approach to power as Tommy Douglas did, as it is the only way to achieve lasting social change.  Prove to the voters we are responsible first.    

Stockholm

Not to mention that the so-called "cranks on the left" in the New Brunswick NDP had their day in the sun when Allison brewer led the party with an explicitly socialist platform in 2006... The result was 5% of the vote, zero seats and a debt that the party is still struggling to pay off to this day.

Pierre C yr

Orangutan wrote:

The provincial wings elsewhere could learn a thing or two from the New Brunswick NDP - I can only imagine if the Ontario NDP had recruited two former Liberals and a sitting PC MPP that the image of the party would have been improved in the eyes of voters as one capable of winning power. 

The cranks on the left of the party need to tone it down and keep it inside the party.  We need to take a tempered approach to power as Tommy Douglas did, as it is the only way to achieve lasting social change.  Prove to the voters we are responsible first.    

 

I couldnt agree more. And so could National. TS is a result of letting a few people ruin a chance of recovering a riding that we should never have lost. National should have had the foresight to fight whatever local political patronage existed there to offer star candidates for the nomination.  I hope Mulcair takes the reins here going forward like Cardy is and doesnt let this happen again in important ridings. NBNDP is poised to make some historical breakthroughs if they can keep on getting candidates like this. 

Caissa

We "Cranks on the Left" (TM) in the NB  NDP are likely to vote with our feet and money. I predict the NDP will elect 0 MLAs in the upcoming election.

Stockholm

Caissa wrote:

We "Cranks on the Left" (TM) in the NB  NDP are likely to vote with our feet and money.

If that were true why did the party under Allison Brewer get 0 seats, almost no votes and left the party on the brink of bankruptcy - were was all that money from the the "cranks on the left"?

Aristotleded24

Caissa wrote:
We "Cranks on the Left" (TM) in the NB  NDP are likely to vote with our feet and money. I predict the NDP will elect 0 MLAs in the upcoming election.

Indeed. While the NB NDP are polling much higher, not having seats in the legislature puts them at a large structural disadvantage, and that will become evident as the actual election campaign rolls around.

Caissa

You are the one suggesting that Brewer was a darling of the Left of the party, Stockholm, not I. I shan't be donating to this election unless their is a candidate in my riding that I can believe in. I am also very close to cancelling my monthly donation. I am sure others will do the same. I'm sure that Lamrock, Leblanc, Harrison and Wilcox will attract a bevy of new money to the party.

TiradeFaction

Stockholm wrote:
Not to mention that the so-called "cranks on the left" in the New Brunswick NDP had their day in the sun when Allison brewer led the party with an explicitly socialist platform in 2006... The result was 5% of the vote, zero seats and a debt that the party is still struggling to pay off to this day.

Details? Anyone got some good sources on her platform? I haven't heard this before.

Orangutan

Caissa wrote:

You are the one suggesting that Brewer was a darling of the Left of the party, Stockholm, not I. I shan't be donating to this election unless their is a candidate in my riding that I can believe in. I am also very close to cancelling my monthly donation. I am sure others will do the same. I'm sure that Lamrock, Leblanc, Harrison and Wilcox will attract a bevy of new money to the party.

I think you are being shortsighted.  The NDP, at least fiscally, needs to emphasize the fact it is fiscally responsible.  Cardy does this well.  

I do not think that attracting former members of other parties is necessarily a bad thing, as we do not know what their current views are or how their views have changed overtime.  

Stay in the party with your fellow activists and fight to keep the party honest and to get some more left-wing planks on the platform.  This is a much better approach than constantly tearing down and building up the party.  

carpenter

As for the debt mentioned by Stockholm, most of that was on paper only to unions and Fed NDP, AND HAS BEEN RESOLVED.

There have been and will continue to be many centre to left policies put forward by the NB NDP.

The real secret, IMHO, to keeping the party together and moving forward will be for the leadership to respect the party faithful and to seek to broaden the base.

The two aims can co-exist.

 

Caissa

The party's base is feeling the respect. Wink

Caissa

New Brunswick MLAs will no longer be responsible for paying for their rent after an internal legislative committee approved a new policy that all future office payments be made directly by the legislature.

The Legislative Administration Committee made the change on Wednesday and it comes in the wake of questions about how Campbellton-Restigouche Centre MLA Greg Davis handled payment of his office expenses.

Davis's office furniture was briefly seized by sheriff's officers in March for non-payment of $6,665, representing six and a half months of rent from September 2013 to March 2014.

Progressive Conservative Fredericton-Silverwood MLA Brian Macdonald, who sits on the committee, said rent amounts will now be deducted from the $40,000 office expense limit of MLAs,

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/legislature-cuts-mlas-out-of-rent-payments-after-scandal-1.2709053

robbie_dee

Are you guys having an election now?

Caissa

A good, former NDP candidate announces he is running for the Green Party. You need a scorecard to keep track of all of the party changes leading up to the provincial election.

 

Wayne Dryer for MLA in Saint John Harbour 14 hours agoImagination: that is where real change begins.

Today I joined with David Coon and other candidates of the Green Party
to promote an alternative vision for the future of New Brunswick. The
poverty in NB is not so much a poverty of resources but a poverty of
ideas.

The party imagines a just and prosperous future that
will not cost us the planet. I believe that the resources of this
province are the property of all its
citizens. They are to be developed in a sustainable manner. The
priorities in this endeavour should be People, Planet, Profits -- in
that order.

Why am I running with the Green Party? 

You all know that in the last election I represented the NDP. You will
also note that the party has rebranded itself as the New NDP. 

Since I was old enough to vote I believed that the New Democratic Party
best represented by political ideals. With its shift to the centre of
the political spectrum this is no longer true. The party has changed. I
have not.

I have a picture of Tommy Douglas in a central
position in my campaign office. The Green Party, which holds sustainable
development and protection of the planet as its integrating principles
is totally consistent with the values he represented.

Why am I running?  Because I can win.  

I am not running just to have the Green Party on the ballot. I have
already proven in the last election that I am electable. I have no
illusion that he Greens will form the government. But I look forward to
sitting beside David in the legislature to give voice to the perspective
of the Green and the people in my riding.

I note that for all
the accomplishments attributed to the NDP, these were made without ever
forming a government.  I believe the same change is possible today.

Stockholm

Its interesting that Dryer contested (and lost) the NDP nomination in Saint John Harbour just a couple of weeks ago. He was more than willing to embrace Dominic Cardy and the NB NDP as long as he was trying to get nominated. Only after losing the nomination fair and square to a much stronger candidate does he suddenly decide that the NDP isn't what it used to be etc...and that he needs to join the Greens.

No wonder people get so cynical about politics.

Caissa

If the NDP were smart they would have let Wayne run in Harbour and put Gary Stackhouse in my riding (Portland) and let him get his feet wet. Dryer is the stroger candidate in my opinion despite losing the nomination. He will definitely outpoll Stackhouse in Harbour. THe vote splits will be interesting since the PC incumbent is running against the previous Liberal incumbent.

Stockholm

I read that Dryer signed a declaration (required of all nomination candidates) when he ran for the NDP nomination that if he lost the nomination he would not under any circumstances run as an independent or for any other party. So, the guy is obviously a deceitful liar who cannot be trusted.

Caissa

He'll be responded to that on Facebook this evening. Most people in NB think all of the candidates are deceitful liars so that puts him in good company.

Stockholm

I'd also like to why if he thinks the NDP is now "too centrist", he was trying to win an NDP nomination as recently as a couple of weeks ago. Obviously if he had won the nomination, he'd be singing the praises of the NDP and dumping on the Green party as a bunch of fringe kooks. I have little patience for sore losers who agree to take part in a process and then refuse to respect the result when they lose.

Caissa

Then you must have very little patience for the NDP candidate in Rothesay, John Wilcox, who contested and lost the Liberal nomination before accepting the NDP banner.

Stockholm

Did he sign a sworn affidavit that he would never run for another party if he lost?

Caissa

Does it matter?

Stockholm wrote:. I have little patience for sore losers who agree to take part in a process and then refuse to respect the result when they lose.

terrytowel

How come we never hear anything about Brian Gallant?

Caissa

Who?

Pierre C yr

terrytowel wrote:

How come we never hear anything about Brian Gallant?

 

Because Brian Gallant like Justin Trudeau has no ideas or effective policies and is simply trying to coast into power.

terrytowel

Pierre C yr wrote:

terrytowel wrote:

How come we never hear anything about Brian Gallant?

 

Because Brian Gallant like Justin Trudeau has no ideas or effective policies and is simply trying to coast into power.

So is that why he is leading in the polls? He just used the same playbook as Justin?

This just in the Premier had decided to boycott the leaders debate, as he objects to the inclusion of the NDP & Green parties as they have no seats in the legislature. In his view it should only be parties that have seats that get an invite to the debates.

Caissa

The premier objects to the inclusion of the Greens and the People's alliance. He has no problem with the involvement of the NDP.

Caissa

From Wayne Dryer's campaign Facebook page.

 

Wayne Dryer for MLA in Saint John Harbour 19 AugustThere
has been some discussion today about a pledge that I signed when
seeking the nomination for the NDP  and my  subsequent announcement to
run for the Green Party.

I take my commitments seriously and believe some explanation is necessary.

When I signed the pledge the policies and principles for conducting a
Nomination Meeting  were already in place in NDP documents. In the weeks
that followed these policies and procedures were not followed.

I do not believe the party adhered to its side of the agreement on
which my commitment was based and after long consideration offered to
represent the members of Saint John Harbour under the Green banner.

For those wishing further clarification please message me privately.  I will be happy to answer your questions.

Stockholm

Translation - I foolishly signed the affidavit when i thought I was shoe in for the nomination. I was shocked that i lost and now weeks later I have sudden;y decided that something must have been rigged - otherwise how could party members possibly have chosen someone else to be the candidate...I am a dishonest opportunist and will pick up my marbles and go to the so-called Green party now.

Caissa

You haven't got a fucking clue what you are talking about, Stockholm. I think there is a very good chance that Dryer will outpoll Stackhouse. If the provincial NDP leadership had half a brain they would have found ridings for both Dryer and Stackhouse. The NDP have yet to nominate a candidate in my riding when the fixed election date has been known for years. Bordering on the incompetent, I would say.

terrytowel

What is it with the pronvincial NDP these days. First Adrian Dix blows his massive lead in BC, then Andrea Horwath pulls the plug in Ontario and is not ready for an election she is responsible for. Now having ample time to nominate candidate, Dominic Cardy still doesn't have candidates nominated in a number of ridings.

Their federal cousins, the Federal NDP hasn't even begun nominating candidates.

Is it the nomination process in the NDP that needs to be looked at? Maybe streamlined?

terrytowel

Caissa do you miss Elizabeth Weir heading up the NDP?

Caissa

I know Elizabeth Weir and Dominic Cardy is no Elizabeth Weir. Wink

Aristotleded24

terrytowel wrote:
What is it with the pronvincial NDP these days. First Adrian Dix blows his massive lead in BC, then Andrea Horwath pulls the plug in Ontario and is not ready for an election she is responsible for. Now having ample time to nominate candidate, Dominic Cardy still doesn't have candidates nominated in a number of ridings.

Their federal cousins, the Federal NDP hasn't even begun nominating candidates.

Is it the nomination process in the NDP that needs to be looked at? Maybe streamlined?

Learning the wrong lessons from the only standing NDP government in the country and not realizing that as the incumbent government the Manitoba NDP has advantages that the feds and its counterparts in other provinces do not.

Stockholm

terrytowel wrote:

 Dominic Cardy still doesn't have candidates nominated in a number of ridings.

Its day 2 of the campaign and the NDP now has candidates in 40 out 49 ridings. The rest should be named within a couple of days.

The New Brunswick NDP currently has no seats, a skeleton staff and almost no money...its a miracle that they manage to even exist as a party and get any press at all considering how close they came to total extinction in the post-Weir period. If it wasn't for Cardy the party would probably have filed for bankruptcy by now and would only be running about half a dozen candidates this time.

Realistically the NDP in NB is seriously contesting about half a dozen seats (maybe a few more) and just wants a foothold in the leg. about 30-40 out of the candidates they run in the 49 seats will inevitably be sacrificial lambs...but unless you literally want just names on the ballot - its not a simple task to get reasonably credible people running in every riding.

terrytowel

Stockholm wrote:

If it wasn't for Dominic Cardy the party would probably have filed for bankruptcy by now and would only be running about half a dozen candidates this time.

They should put all of their resources in the most winable seat and have Dominic Cardy run in that riding. Then build on that support.

Ever since the most popular NDP MLA Elizabeth Weir left, the whole party has gone downhill.

It is times like these I really miss ELizabeth Weir, the most successful NB NDP leader.

Stockholm

terrytowel wrote:

They should put all of their resources in the most winable seat and have Dominic Cardy run in that riding. Then build on that support.

I believe that is exactly what they are doing

Aristotleded24

Stockholm wrote:
terrytowel wrote:

They should put all of their resources in the most winable seat and have Dominic Cardy run in that riding. Then build on that support.

I believe that is exactly what they are doing

It's a longshot in the best case scenario, especially if the current levels of NDP support are evenly spread across the province rather than concentrated in one or two hotspots. Regardless of what the polling numbers may have been, the NDP has no seats in the Legislature which puts them at a major structural advantage compared to the other 2 parties. I would suspect a great deal of NDP support to soften and go elsewhere before September 22.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I guess the party must be too socialist and that is why no one cares whether it lives or dies.  Its not like they are trying to out liberal the Liberals so that can't be the problem.  Right Stockholm

Aristotleded24

kropotkin1951 wrote:
I guess the party must be too socialist and that is why no one cares whether it lives or dies.  Its not like they are trying to out liberal the Liberals so that can't be the problem.  Right Stockholm

Exactly krop. I even noticed that the New Brunswick NDP plans on holding the line on all taxes, including corporate taxes. What? For all the mistakes they made, at least Adrian Dix and Andrea Horwath each had some sort of corporate tax increase as part of their plans. The platform leaves me a bit flat, and since there is no realistic shot of Cardy becoming Premier, why not just vote for the Liberals?

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