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Ebona Ebona's picture

The ndp really needs to start pushing for proportional representation as the only way to prevent phony majorities and to increase voter turnout and representation. In my view its one of the most if not the most important issue; fixing our democracy.

scott16

how many elections until the ns ndp are back competing for government? two or three? a decade or more?

KenS

Less than all that. And I'm pretty discouraged, and not at planningthis point to be an active part of rebuilding.

Others have said that the Liberals are likely to begin going off the rails as their term goes on, then we'll be back.

That is possible. But as something to expect.... well that comes from the apologists for the path that got us here: flying under the radar to get into government while just going through the motions around trust, our by far biggest asset with swing voters.

The other probem with that recipe is that it would take a well oiled machine to be ready to capitalize on that opportunity. And well oiled Orange Machine within a few years is highly unlikely.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that how long in the wilderness depends very much on how long it takes to get our act together internally.

KenS

People understandably have their frame of reference with the 1995 aftermath in Ontario.

The most obvious difference is that we're not being blamed for Nova Scotias probelms. On the contrary, the obituaries are full of praise.

But that difference obscures what our primary challenge will be. External factors- they hated you- meant the ONDP was not for years given a chance to recover.

The NS NDP will have the chance, but we face the the problems that go with internal infrastructure devestation. The ONDP faced them too, but they were comparatively secondary since the NDP was the public and media whipping boy for years. Or at least they look secondary now, 15 years plus later.

The NS NDP has a lot to overcome.

It may not be the main thing, but very likely compounding that- wait till we hear the financial shape of the NS NDP. This machine used to be good at elections. But it was never good at everything else... and pretty poor at the finances. That may be the next shoe to fall.

Stockholm

Aristotleded24 wrote:

nittanylionstorm07 wrote:
As someone who supported Mulcair, I have to say I am disappointed with how the party is performing under him.  I expected more...and although they have started some new pushes as of late, Mulcair's leadership so far has felt very John Kerry-ish in the sense that there is a great lack of proper response to attacks/paintings of Mulcair and the party by the Liberals and Conservatives.  The NDP needs to keep Megan Leslie in the federal realm as a replacement for Mulcair if the 2015 election is disastrous.  Leslie provides an absolutely outstanding and firm opposition to Trudeau and appeals to the same demographics....and she has the potential to be one of the greatest Prime Ministers Canada has ever had.

Then what stopped her from going last time around?

Besides, this is a decision that Megan will have to make on her own.

I don't think her French was all that good in 2011/2012 and after having elected 59 MPs from Quebec it was considered a sine qua non that the next leader above all else had to be someone who could "hold the fort" in Quebec.

KenS

Imported from another thread:

Stockholm wrote:

I still don't get why the NDP lost by such a wide margin in Nova Scotia. i ask people over and over "what was so bad about Dexter?" and the answer i always get was "he's wishy-washy"...this is a province that has had a host of bland premiers from Bob Stanfield to John Hamm - it remains a mystery to me....and i find it hard to believe that McNail the appliance repairmen is going to be any less 'wishy-washy" than Dexter was.

Wishy washy was not a problem with the general public. Your informant did not notice, but you would know that if you were here.

 

 

In case you missed it:

TIMELINE

2002 to 2009  NDP cultivates and solidifies the image of trust around Dexter. It is a good fit.

2005  Problems with MLA expensing system pointed out by two leading Caucus members. Dexter blows it off. "I dont see a problem."

2007-2008   Caucus knows Auditor showing a lot of interest in the expensing. Asks for lots of documents.

2009  Win government! MLA expenses chickens come home to roost. Premeir Dexter returns funds for expensive camera [personal use], expensive briefcase and legal society fees.

 

And then Dexter and his tiny coterie go on smashing about as if they have nothing to worry about. We'll bring home the jobs, cut the HST back to where it was. Everyone will be happy.

 

The discussion that is pulled from begins a couple posts earler here.

 

But it can be summarised thus:

You spend several years cultivating what you know is by far your biggest asset with voters: generic trust. You succeed at connecting it with the image of your Uncle Darrel.

At the same time, well before being elected to government, you are so involved with the chessboard gamesmanship where this asset in practice becomes just another pawn on the board. Salt with just plain carelessness, and all non-trivial decisions made by a small handfull of people.

 

Time comes to navigate through the shoals. You need that trust for more than getting elected. And there is a tipping point where it goes beyond something you [merely] dont have to draw on any more.....

 

 

Lens Solution
KenS

The more I think about, it is this simple:

 

The Good News: It really is true, the NDP appears to be still be thought of well; and while the MacNeill Liberals will not likely make the same kind of self-inflicted mistakes, their prospects for success are not great, the economy here is highly unlikely to be doing well, and even with ditching the stupid NDP HST tax cuts, revenues will not match Liberal spending commitments. So as far as that goes, the NDP probably has the opportunity to come back in as little as one election.

The Bad News: It would take a healthy party to capitalize on the opportunity. As an organization the NS NDP had long shown signs of ill health before the election. The organic tendency now will be for the NS NDP to tear itself apart. The NS NDP has long had a Please Fuck Off sign out for anyone not interested in just doing as the brain trust sees fit. So left to do as it sees fit, the remaining rump of an organization might not tear itself apart- but it would be way too small a group to make anything happen.  

 

If the doors are thrown upon, or pushed open, and include people previously aliented from the party.... then there will be hatchets in the air.

"Burrying the hatchet" is not likley to just happen. And because of that...

Quote:
We have a venue, a date [November 2], and a professional in restorative justice as facilitator. [So that it is not just a blame session, and everyone feels safe to participate.]

Details as this gets finalized. But looking at that Saturday evening, maybe beginning with a potluck.

from here.

 

jerrym

I am surprised that the NDP did not attack the Liberals for their austerity plan of cutting spending by one per cent annually (which is much more than in real terms when inflation is taken into account) considering how many problems austerity programs have created in European economies.

KenS

Considering the coverage that the NDP's education cuts got and continued to get right up until the election, it would be difficult for them to attack the Liberals on that flank. In fact, had they tried, it would have just fanned the fanned the flames.

KenS

Lens Solution wrote:

Why did Graham Steele and Howard Epstein not run again?  It might have improved NDP prospects if they had.

These two actually wanted out more than others, but a number of the old guard did not run again.

I dont know how much difference it would have made had they run. I think the most accurate way to look at it is that their departures were a manifestation of a general malaise. In the case of Steele, even the Finance Minister with very high personal standing decidig he had enough [though it is still conjecture what exactly his issue was]. Officialy he left to spend more time with his family. No one believes that was the reason, which does not mean any one knows what the reason was.

 

Lens Solution

Thank-you for the response.  It's possible Howard Epstein's riding would have remained NDP if he had stayed on since it is traditionally an NDP stronghold, but it went Liberal without him.  But from here in Ontario I'm not enough of an expert on the individual Nova Scotia ridings to know why.

TiglathPileser

I simply find it all sad, here is our province, sinking in a mire of its own making and we all stand around asking silly questions and debating the value of this political stripe or that action.  The voter turnout is low because people like me are entirely disgusted with the lack of will, focus and forsight shown consistantly by most elected officials of what ever stripe in the last 40 years.  While I am no fortune teller one thing I can gaurantee you is that it will get worse before it gets better.  Politics, of all stripes, has simply become a game to be played out by people who want to be in the lime light, no better example than the US right now.  Want to get people out to vote?  Give us people to vote for who are willing to invest something in us as opposed to people interested in an inanly high salery (NS MLAs make the same as Alberta MLAs while workers make at least 30% less) and subsequent pension plan...anyway, I could go on but I just find it sad.  We truly are fiddling while NS burns, and very few seem to care.

janfromthebruce

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Aristotleded24

KenS wrote:
Lens Solution wrote:
Why did Graham Steele and Howard Epstein not run again?  It might have improved NDP prospects if they had.

These two actually wanted out more than others, but a number of the old guard did not run again.

I dont know how much difference it would have made had they run. I think the most accurate way to look at it is that their departures were a manifestation of a general malaise. In the case of Steele, even the Finance Minister with very high personal standing decidig he had enough [though it is still conjecture what exactly his issue was]. Officialy he left to spend more time with his family. No one believes that was the reason, which does not mean any one knows what the reason was.

That is important, because if you have several MLAs and Cabinet Members leaving, then you start to wonder if they've read the tea leaves and want to go out gracefully.

That said, even the most popular politicians will either step down or die in office, thus necessitating replacements. Certainly any party planning to stick around has a way to groom and recruit people who can take over. KenS, was this not being done in Nova Scotia? Did the internal structures of the Nova Scotia NDP break down? How is it that the NDP could lose several key people without having a way to replace them?

Charles

Actually candidate recruitment in the open NDP seats was outstanding with the best slate of new candidates I can recall in my 25 years as a member. These MLAs telegraphed their departure well in advance and in most cases were 10-15 year veterans who were anything but surprise retirements (indluding one due to health reasons). But it didn't matter. Howard would have lost anyway. Marilyn More would have lost anyway. The only of the retiring MLAs who was almost a sure thing to have held their seat was Bill Estabrooks who is very ill and simply couldn't have run again. It was a tidal wave and even those constituencies who had tremendous candidates, and they were many, and ran near perfect local, on the ground campaigns, and they were many - didn't matter. A wave of that magnitude sweeps all aside. The candidates were groomed, they were well chosen and they turned out to be as great as we had hoped but it simply didn't matter in the face of such a sweep. Such is the nature of electoral waves...

KenS

Catchfire presumptively closed a thread I started.

As far as I'm concerned talking about the election is over, which is why no one is posting in this thread.

But since his excellency has decided it is all the same, who am I to disagree?'

So I'll reply to the last comment in NS NDP: Has anyone resigned yet?

Lou Arab wrote:

Has he even announced he will 'resign as soon as the party can elect a new leader?'

There have been no announcements of any kind going to the members, nor any others I have heard.

No doubt the surviving inner circle knows the plan, but it is not going very far at all from there.

The last word from Dexter was the first days after when he said he needed to meet and discuss with Table Officers... which was obviously waiting until he came back from his final junket to Brazil.

Not to mention that 'resign as soon as the party can elect a new leader' only happens when you are at least hanging around as a lame duck, and that is only an option when you at least have a seat. 

In the circumstances the normal thing would be for Dexter to resign as Leader quickly. There was no need for a token constant occupation of the Leader title. It was always obvious that the party was going to soon need an interim leader.

 

 

Krago

The poll-by-poll maps from the recent Nova Scotia provincial election are ready: http://www.election-atlas.ca/ns/

Unionist

[url=http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2013/11/23/nova-scotia-ndp-appoints-act... appoints Maureen MacDonald acting leader[/url]

 

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