Boomers and parenting the Y generation
Why is it Boomers (I find this generation to the most guilty of this) feel they can comment on parenting and being indulgent?
When I was dropping my daughter off at the train station we chatted with the Station Master. She was really helpful and really nice. So after I waved the train down the track I went back inside to say thank you and goodbye.
She asked where I was headed back to and I said Owen Sound (I was in Gravenhurst) and she all “wow that’s a long way”. I just shrugged. She then asked why I didn’t put her on a bus in Barrie.
“Well she prefers the train” I said.
Then I get the look. For a second I thought she was channeling my mother!!
So much in the look. It says “so what, that’s a major inconvenience for you so why should you go out of your way, you oh so important adult, to indulge the ‘want’ of a child?”
I continued to fluff it of saying that it was no big deal.
So then she suggests that when she comes back down she get off in Gravenhurst and take the bus to Barrie. Actually not a bad plan.
But I’m always stunned at how many people ‘tsk’ at me for indulging her by going the extra distance. I got tsk’d for getting her during “Snowmageddon” – make her take the bus they all said.
She’s not home for very long, and if I can get an extra hour or two of her company, why shouldn’t I? We both love road trips, but I’m constantly told I’m indulging her.
I once followed the conversation through. As a single parent, and that it’s just been her and I for the better part of 8 years, I would ask her what she wanted for dinner. I had people tell me I should then cook what she didn’t want, just to teach her “life isn’t fair”. WTF???
I’ve always told my kids (my son spent high school living with his dad, has lived with me on and off for 2 years but is now on his own at 22) if they need or want something to tell me. If I can do it, I will, if I can’t, I can’t.
I just don’t get why people feel they can ‘disapprove’.
Here is a good quote on judgement that seems to apply
To straighten what is crooked you must first straighten yourself. Once you are aligned the whole world looks different - Unknown
Guess the other people are a little crooked and don't want to straighten themselves out - they would rather straighten you!
I think that most people like to offer parenting advice. I'm in my late 20's and look like I could be 19. When I'm out in public with my infant son people always like to give advice. I have a friend who had her first kid when she was 23 and she looked like she was 17. You should have heard the stories she had.
The odd thing is that as boomers or older folks give us younger parents advice on how "not to spoil" or "over-parent" or whatever, they themselves are assuming the role of our parents. If that person thought that you were spoiling your daughter by driving her to the train station you should tell her that if she keeps on telling a grown woman how to raise her kids that you're never going to learn how to do it yourself.
I would add that taking the bus is much, much safer than driving.
I apologize in advance for the drift:
As a non-parent I don't have much to add to the parenting discussion, but as a non-Boomer at age 42, I guess I'm wondering who you're calling "Boomer", rural Francesca. Aren't most Boomers in their late 50s and early 60s now? I'm de facto Gen X, which goes to about 5 years younger than me I think. I know some people are having their first children in their late 30s, but many the same age have teenagers as well.
If you just mean people older than you who are criticizing your parenting methods I would say to ignore them and do as you like. No child, of any age, was ever "spoiled" by being cared about or loved too much.
But you're right, it's a phenomenon worth talking about, the "right" some people feel they have to comment on another's parenting skills/methods.
I'm 45 and according to some definitions of Baby Boomer, I fit into the tail end.
At 57, I'm a boomer in good standing. Real boomers don't care what non-boomers think of them, because of course it's the world that owes us! As a parent though, I understand that the world is populated by people who's job it is to give me unsolicited advice on parenting, enhanced with a piquante of judgementalness. For the most part I accept (ignore) this in good grace, and in consultation with my boomer partner, go with my own best instincts. This has worked so far.
This is a tagline. It has nothing to do with the comments posted above. Just a tagline...really. Please disregard.
Well I refer to Boomers as people my parents age - early 60's. One was born '45 the other '46.
I was born in '66 so I'm an X gen and my kids are there therefore Y's, as they were born '86 and '90.
Francesca and Maysie, the boom ran from 1945 to 1960. Technically, my guy is a boomer, although he is only in his late 40s. Like both of you, I was born in '66, so I am a GenXer. My mum, on the other hand, preceded the boom by 3 years, meaning she's not a boomer but her younger sister is.
I don't think unsolicited advice and generalized disapproval is related to boomers. You get it from most sides, you're a bad mother no matter what you do. Easy going? Too lax. Put your foot down? Authoritarian. Let the kid run an errand to the corner store? Inattentive and irresponsible. Walk them home from school? Smothering. God forbid they do something unexpected or have the occasional meltdown, that's probably your fault too. Give 'em a moment, they'll come up with something...
I'm currently getting disapproval from a teacher who is in his late 20s, a principal who is more or less my contemporary and terrific support from an educational consultant who is most definitely a boomer. I think it's more about mindset than anything else.
Do you ever find yourself looking at another parent and thinking "For gawds' sake, get a clue!"? I have to admit it happens to me sometimes. But I tend to keep my yap shut.
I consider myself a tail end boomer, being born in '59. Um, 1959, smartasses. I heard all those jokes right through the internet, before you said them.
I try to listen to my advice, as I give it, as the person I was when I was the age of the person I'm giving it to.
Of course, you tell the kids of today this stuff, and they just don't listen.
Do you ever find yourself looking at another parent and thinking "For gawds' sake, get a clue!"? I have to admit it happens to me sometimes. But I tend to keep my yap shut.
Most definitely (on both counts). I can't imagine giving someone advice about parenting (particularly since my "kids" have four legs). One of my brothers called me recently about problems with his son and was looking for some (parenting) advice. Even when asked, I'm really reluctant to give that kind of advice. I generally try to listen and ask some open-ended questions and, often, that's all they need.
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Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!
It's important for the maintenance of sanity to constantly bounce ideas around, and get input from other people. If you don't, you end up saving years worth of chicken and turkey necks in the freezer, and then molding them into a statue of Maddona in your backyard, which, if you live in a persnickety neighbourhood like mine, raizes a few eyebrows. Let. Me. Tell. You.
A lot of my "advice" is launched by saying well(for example) , "when my eldest was eight, and we ran into this situation, here's what we did"... and then describe how it did, or didn't work out. It's more conversational, less lecturing, and people get to look for what it is they wanted to confirm in the first place.
That's what I do, Tommy, though generally when advice is solicited, like if somebody says, "My son's teacher says he's ADD. But he says all the boys are ADD," and I'll say, "Well, here's what I did..." (Two teachers falsely labelled my oldest as ADD.) And personally, I'd rather people offer me unwanted advice than what happens too much in my 'hood, where people gossip about other people's parenting skills behind their backs (and yes; I've been guilty of this). And then it's more of a social thing rather than just lecturing.
"That's what I do, Tommy, ..."
Drat, for a moment I thought I had a soul mate on the chicken and turkey neck thing.
I'm not sure if I've ever gossiped, as such, about other people's parenting skills. Although, guys gossip in a different manner than women, I find. We have to gossip in a very artfull way in order to maintain the illusion that we are not gossiping.
I come from the perspective of a Generation Y’er, who has mixed feelings on this one. I think going out of your way to do things like this for your children is wonderful, as long as it doesn’t border on coddling, which it doesn’t sound like it does. Heck, I’m 25, and have made the decision not to have a car, so I often find my parents shuttling me between their place and mine. Even when I lived in Ottawa, my dad would drive down for the day, hang out, and drive me home to the GTA for holidays. I quite enjoy taking the Greyhound, so that was never the issue, it was just something he never minded doing. I don’t think those things are overindulgent. Plus, those long car rides can be excellent parent/children time.
On the other hand, I am at an age where I continue to watch friend after friend be overindulged financially by their parents, and I’ve developed such callousness to it that I have friends that I don’t even want to ask about their personal lives anymore. I often wonder, if my parents were in a financial situation to pay my rent and cell phone bill, or support me so I didn’t have to work through university, would I take it? Maybe I would, but I like to think I wouldn’t. I might have a different mindset when I have children, because I’m sure all parents want the best for their children, but I have trouble understanding how a parent paying their 25-year-olds cell phone bill can be beneficial. I often see money used as leverage, where parents offer a certain monthly “allowance” or pay certain bills, as long as they don’t live in a certain part of town, they stay with in a certain distance to home, they only go to a certain school … etc. etc.
Sorry, I know I’m ranting, and this thread had little to do with financial overindulgence. I’ll stop before I have to ban myself for incessant thread drifts.
This I love. I'm a boomer too.
I think, as usual, it's probably not helpful to generalize about any particular generation. I have a 14-year-old son and have always been older than the parents of most of my son's contemporaries. I have often found that the younger parents look questioningly -- and sometimes patronizingly -- at me, as if perhaps I don't quite understand what's going on in the world. It's very annoying.
But I enjoy the company of my son and I can relate to the pleasure of using the drive to spend a little more time with one's kid. If it feels right and if you don't feel exploited, then I expect it is right for you -- and it's no one else's business, is it?
Hi JRose,
It's and interesting question, the one of what to provide for your children. Ms. C and I face it withour boys aged 6 and 11 every day. I can't speak for her but I'll try to speak from mine. She and I come from working class backgrounds, my father was a security yard for most of my youth and her father began his work career shovelling snow in the train yard and then retired as a train engineer. Neither of our households were affluent and careful attention to budgeting was necessary for the household to stay solvent.
Fast forward to our household, where we both have graduate degrees and a comfortable household income for those living in Saint John, N.B. The issue of what to provide for our children in the way of material goods (let's leave the issue of time aside for now). As parents you want your children to learn that there is not an unlimited supply of assets. That's why they both hav allowances which they safe to by some items they want. Our eldest son is a lover of maps; its one of his aspergers obsessions. He used most of his christmas money buying map collections. His choice and his money. After Christmas Ms.C and I took the boys shopping one day she had the youngest and I had the eldest. He wanted to purchase another map collection. I could easily have afforded to buy it for him and that would have made him happy and saying no would lead to his displeasure. I said "no" and told him he could save his allowance to buy it. Was it the right decision? Who knows. I do not that having grown up in a house where money was tight with the subsequent anxiety that wroughts, I want my children to have things I didn't have if i can afford to provide them. This gets balanced on the other hand by a wish for them to learn that resources aren't unlimited and that as they grow older they will have to earn their resources and learn how to make decisions on allocating them. This doesn't even touch the issue of allocating my time so to spend quality time with them.
Big thread drift.
Thanks for the insight, Caissa. That's exactly why I think things could change if and when I decide to have children, because of course every parent wants to provide the best for their children.
I, too, come from a working class background, and certainly think I will obsess over the small everyday decisions you outlined - How do you give enough, but not too much? I just know from my own experiences that I am far more appreciative of things because I was never gifted a car, or a tuition cheque, or an abundance of other things, but thankfully because of that my family doesn't think they are shareholders in my decisions, an experience I see constantly with friends in my age bracket.
What I wonder, is how long is too long? Should parents still be supporting their children AFTER university? I especially wonder with my female friends. It often seems that their fathers support them until ultimately they meet a husband, which is an ideology that I thought and hoped was so far behind us.
The question of how long is too long has always been with us as a society. There is some good work out there on how we have prolonged childhood and adolesence.
As for our cases, my parents occasionally helped me out of economic jams while in grad school borne of my having made less than good budgeting decisions. At the age of 30, after ceasing to be a university student, I returned to NB and lived with my parents for 2 years until Ms. C. and I got married. Othetr than when she attended university 60 miles up the river in Fredericton, Ms. C. lived at home until she married at the age of 31. Was that too much support? Was it a reflection of close family ties? I must say our two sets of parents have resisted feeling they have a stake in decisions we make.
Like I said, my comments have been total rants, and not really founded on much, except for the silver spoon I still see stuck in the mouths of many 20 and 30 year olds I know.
I think there really isn't a correct answer, and every person's family situation is different, financially and emotionally.
"That's what I do, Tommy, ..."
Drat, for a moment I thought I had a soul mate on the chicken and turkey neck thing.
I'm not sure if I've ever gossiped, as such, about other people's parenting skills. Although, guys gossip in a different manner than women, I find. We have to gossip in a very artfull way in order to maintain the illusion that we are not gossiping.
It's more culturally acceptable for women to take an interest (prurient or otherwise) in the personal lives of others. But yeah; the worst gossips I've known are men.
I also know some people who have been excessively financially supported by their parents. It's not a generational thing; some families just do that, like my in-laws. When a family member ran up a $2000 credit card debt as a student, she ran crying to her parents, who chastised her about her lack of responsibility, and then paid the bill. Now in my family, there's no way in hell I would have run up a $2000 bill as a student, because my parents would never, never, ever have paid. Whether they could have or not, my dad would have said, "Guess you're going to have to get a part-time job," or words to that effect.
I know a chap who's almost 50, and he's still supported by his folks, who are over 70. They're wealthy people who bought him everything. A friend who used to work as a personal assistant to the parents (and has been on her own since age 17) used to get pissed off, hearing them argue over how much money they should give to their middle-aged son.
Based on some families I've known, I'm almost at the point of saying that being brought up wealthy damages kids like being brought up in poverty (in this country, I mean).
My son is 22 and my daughter is 18.
My son has a massivesense of entitlement and resented me greatly for decisions that left us in poverty here and there. He felt he missed ou ton having "the stuff" that all kids have or do - wanted to play hockey.
He blew $20 000 on collged half was his own the other half a student loan. He finished a year and half and flunked out.
My daughter is just starting second semester and passed everything and has OSAP loans
but is very frugal.
she doesn't mindsecond hand clothes, finds themfun sometimes, he hates it.
She will come out and help me at work related evetns etc, he resents the timeit takes away fromme.
He will hide mistakes he's made until it's too late and then want others to bail him out. She'll call mebeforemaking a decision to talk it out, or sel'll make the decision and call me to let meknow how she arrived at that decision.
He'll mentally spent the $ my parents will give him for his birthday, weeks if not months in advance, she always see the $ as a surprise.
He doesn't have tenannt insurance for his basement apartment in Toronto, I'm thinking of adding himto my household insurance, without telling him. So if something happens he's covered, but at the sametime he doesn't know I'm "bailing" him out. While naturally bugging the crap out of him to go and buy some insurance.
The daughter on the other hand, is beyond responsible and if we're going to a movie or something she's always checking with me if we can afford it etc. She workedfor the movie theater andgot freepasseswith each pay,and she'd never use them forfriends, unless there was a birthday ro something, it was always her and I.
Now she's seen more poverty first hand than he has, but he spent time sleeping on the couch when visiting when I only had a 2 bedroom apartment.
So two different children and two very different approaches to entitlement.
rural-Francesca, My family is the same way. The difference in terms of feeling entitled are so different between me and my sister. Caused some strife in the past. :) You wouldn't think we grew up in the same house with the same parents. Though it's better now that we all have matured. We both at various times in our twenties came back to live at home whether going back to school or just circumstances. She refused to pay rent or contribute to the expenses if asked and would say to my parents, "I'm your kid. This is your job to look after me.' I was the opposite and totally grateful for the help because they didn't have to do what they did.
So yeah two different kids, same parents, two different ways of thinking.
I think entitlement, or sense thereof, has much to do with this issue. I grew up as a boomer in a family that, for many years, was financially strapped and with a father who had learned his lessons during a depression. We did not want for what was needed, but food was sensibly purchased, gifts were limited, and there were strong expectations for the 4 of us to work as soon as we could, to do well in school, and, when we worked, to pay a small amount of room and board as part of life lesson. No particular hardships. Being 3rd of 4, financial tides had turned by the time I headed off to uni...and my university was paid for, along with a car for graduation (undergrad) and my living expenses for those 4 years. When I married, in grad school, my education was still paid for but it was made perfectly clear that expenses of my life would not be subsidized. I never, ever asked for anything extra. If I consumed all my grocery money in beers, I stayed hungry. If my clothes wore out, I headed to Frenchy's...I would never have called and asked for additional $$. Later, when my (2nd) partner attended grad school, my parents loaned him the money and later wrote off the loan. In particular, my father believed it an obligation to provide for our educations -- he took out personal loans for the older siblings to get higher eds. He was the son of a teacher and it was important to him that we get educations. But, we had to perform, academically.
My oldest is now 20. From highschool she headed to Europe for what ended up being 2 years. We paid for her first 3 nights in a hostel in Scotland and helped purchase some of her travel gear. In the two years she asked twice for money and in both cases we provided, but less than what she asked. We also bought her a plane ticket to meet us on holiday as her birthday gift. She is now back in the area, in an apt. and attending uni. Mostly on her own. I have bought her grocery store gift cards and we have paid for her damage deposit and purchased her books. I send in Sunday Soup for her. She sometimes struggles to keep up with her social life and staying warm. She is okay with that and though we could afford to help her more, we are okay with that. The youngest is 13 and also saves to buy many of her 'wants' through babysitting, etc. She is also required, and happily does, put a %age to charity and a %age into 'family taxes'. She maintains a small bank account.
We prefer to live simply and the girls have an appreciation for that and an awarenss of why it is important. I also know adults -- 28 year olds driving family provided SUVs, sporting iphones, southern vacations, etc. I don't know many who just take it for granted. I don't know any who have to live a certain way in order to keep the purse open. If they aren't throwing hissy fits to get their way when alternatives might be suggested, then I don't think there is much in the way of indulgence going on.
I don't much care how people judge my parenting. Is that the boomer in me? My mother and mother-in-law have always been hyper critical of me in that regard, so everything else pales in comparison. And, they have helped to create a hard edge on me, so most everything else just rolls off my back. I don't offer anything about parenting, casually, unless asked and then keep it pretty wide open. Parenting comes in so many varieties...
More threadd rift but, Jrose, I've had really similar experiences and reactions to yours: friends whose parents pay for everything (including credit card financed shopping sprees, cell-phone bills, car, gas, insurance, sending out laundry to be cleaned, fluffed and folded...) Then the friend feels obligated to take a job the parent approves of, go on parent-approved vacations, live at home for the summer. I have only observed this with daughters, but then most of my friends are girls, so who knows? It's tough when your friends have more money than you or don't know the value of money because they never pay for things. Then, again, those same friends seem to lack independence. Does anyone know people who are given money with no strings attached?
I do wonder if it is more common for parents to financially help their daughters. Mr. Summer has a sister who is about 10 years younger than him. His parents have given her a car, pay her bills and pay for her vacations. He did not get anywhere near the same $$ when he was in uni. Then again, maybe they look at the bad relationship they have with Mr. Summer and think they can have a better one with the sister.
I have more male friends than female, but I think you're right Summer, I do see a greater trend in parents financing the lives of their daughters, which is I think why I find it so problematic. It seems like a few of the young women I know are stuck in a time where it's okay to accept money from your father until it comes time to accept money from your husband, which I find degrading, at best.
Kinda makes up for making 70 cents on the dollar.....
Not really, no.
Kinda makes up for making 70 cents on the dollar.....
But at what cost?
I was being flippant, but on the other hand I wonder if the is some underlying compensation on that economic front.
In my case my parents supported my brother because they felt I had better survial skills than he did. It wasn't until I was homeless did they realize how tough things were getting - and I was the one with kids!
I wasn't looking for fancy things - just the basics - food...
There does seem to be an extended dependency for many families these days, though I don't know that it is the father's money that allows for this. Granted we women are still at an extreme economic disadvantage, it is perhaps the combined family income which allows for adultescence. The reality of the job market in some parts of the country, like those of us in the east, plays a role in adult children requiring help, particularly with respect to housing.
I am a boomer and a parent. I am often considered to be indulgent but do not agree. I have adult kids, making the transitional steps into full adulthood, in fits and starts. I also have an 8 year old.
Learning usually happens by moving forward and going back as opposed to being skilled at something on the first attempt. I'm glad not to have to, for sheer survival, boot my kids out of the house and into swimming or sinking. Also, in terms of extended adolescence, many cultures around the world live in families that are intergenerationally interwoven -- is that a bad way to approach living?
I'm not comfortable when faced with situations where there seems to be power being wielded over others, such as parents who use money to manipulate their adult children or adult children who feel they are owed. Having said that, I think it's important to recognize that, what we see on the outside of a situation doesn't often (or even, usually) reflect the reality of it and it's wise to avoid judging. The youngest of my adult children, whose attitude of entitlement drives me up the wall sometimes, also has a learning disability and hasn't quite figured out how to cope with the expectations placed on him in our society.
I don't see anything wrong with an approach similar to yours, rural-Francesca -- if I can do it, I will, if I can't, I can't. It seems healthy to me in terms of your well-being and hers. I don't think it has anything to do ith boomers, though.
double post
I think it's important to recognize that, what we see on the outside of a situation doesn't often (or even, usually) reflect the reality of it and it's wise to avoid judging.
I agree, Loretta. Thankyou for pointing that out it is a very important thing to consider when looking at any situation including this one. Sometimes what we percieve as a situation is a mirage of what our own judgements are and sometimes what we percieve is only what the other person wants you to think is happening because they don't want to talk about what is really happening.