Swears.
August 18, 2011 - 2:45pm
Would You Please Fucking Stop?
I keep reading books and seeing movies where nobody can fucking say anything except fuck, unless they say shit. I mean they don’t seem to have any adjective to describe fucking except fucking even when they’re fucking fucking. And shit is what they say when they’re fucked. When shit happens, they say shit, or oh shit, or oh shit we’re fucked. The imagination involved is staggering. I mean, literally.
There was one novel I read where the novelist didn’t only make all the fucking characters say fuck and shit all the time but she got into the fucking act herself for shit sake. So it was full of deeply moving shit like, “The sunset was just too fucking beautiful to fucking believe.”
I guess what’s happened is that what used to be a shockword has become a noise that’s supposed to intensify the emotion in what you’re saying. Or maybe it occurs just to bridge the gap between words, so that actual words become the shit that happens in between saying fucking?
My five-year-old son said to our new neighbour last night: "Holy shit, those are nice shoes." I was shocked.
Then we had a conversation sort of like what's written above - they are just words, but not very good or imaginative ones. You can come up with something better than that.
I let my kids swear. I've spent some time, though, making sure they understand that swearing offends some people (like grandma) and that there are times and places that cussing should not be used (like in front of grandma). We haven't had any issues, although there was a period of delight that did have to be damped down a bit. I also don't have to worry about what comes out of my mouth, because I swear a lot. It's been freeing.
This shit really fucking pisses me off. I mean, "Fuck!" I mean, just because there are a few swear words, don't fucking think for a fucking second that a writer should get away with this fucking shit. For fuck's sake. It's not, "she got into the fucking act herself for shit sake," for fuck's sake, it's "she got into the fucking act herself for shit's sake" for shit's sake! Fuck! Can't fucking writers write anymore? It's "shit's sake" not fucking "shit sake" !! What the fuck is "shit sake" ? fucking moron! What the fuck is the world coming to? Get your shit together, writers! Don't fuck around! I'm not whistling fucking Dixie here! No fucking shit! Keep your shit wired tight at all times! Mother fuckers! i've just about had enought of this fucking shit, I tell you. If one more fucker forgets to fucking put the possessive on "shit's sake" I will fucking blow a gasket! Fuck! Am I making myself fucking clear?
No shit Sherlock! If I want any shit from fucking writers who forget to put the possessive on "shit's sake" I will fucking squeeze their fucking heads. I shit you not! etc.
A fucking crime scene.
Fuckin eh. I've been meaning to watch that series. Probably should start at the beginning.
Compare and contrast:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCK123Y7K90
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsJSRP7cZVo
The fucking crime is that English has such a limited choice of curses and swear-words to pick from.
Fuckin' Bloody Fuck, mate.
How James Joyce swears:
Ulysses, "Ithaca"
Interesting how English swear words are about sex and French swear words are about the Church. Do we English people have hostility around sex? Maybe we're a little uptight and could benefit from non-violent love making. What if the next time you hit your thumb with the hammer, try saying, "OH CHURCH! That hurts!"
Of course I remember the day I was roofing and hit my thumb for the third time. I screamed foul language at the top of my lungs, and my French friend told me I had combined the strongest features of both languages quite poetically. The funny part is that it was a a place in the Eastern Townships called Mount Echo.
I still smile at the memory.
We could all lighten up a bit and stop worrying about word phobias.
Jesus fucking christ I hit my fucking finger.
Finally, my favourite word gets the thread it deserves.
My mom inadvertently taught me the best swear words, and swear word combinations, I've ever heard. I still use most of them, when appropriate.
There is a downside to the proliferation of swearing: loss of shock value and meaning. Used sparingly cuss words can add to the flavour of your speach rather than like putting a tablespoon of salt on a potato.
For any fans of Jaroslav Hasek out there, apparently the humour of the prose in "The Good Soldier Svejk" suffered a lot in the translation from Czech to English, as the multitude of crude statements about bodily functions had to be reduced to the two or three "big swear words" in English.
We really do have an impoverished culture in that respect! :/
There is a downside to the proliferation of swearing: loss of shock value and meaning. Used sparingly cuss words can add to the flavour of your speach rather than like putting a tablespoon of salt on a potato.
Hey, I happen to like salt. Alot of salt.
Rebecca: No shit?
I favour inpletives over expletives.
Is that underfuckin'stood!!!???
I used to swear a lot when I worked in the bush. None of the ravens, crows, moose or Pine Martens were impressed much. I've had beers with diamond drillers' on Saturday nights. The things that come out of their mouths after a few cases of beer on a Saturday night watching the hockey game would embarrass a sailor.
Rebecca: No shit?
allah: I shit thee not.
I don't put either shit or salt on my potatoes.
Is that underfuckin'stood!!!???
Absofuckinlutely
Hey Fockers! Cool thread to say wassup. What's crackin these days? Oh, looks like a gaggle flew in. We must do our best to have "Love, hope and optimism." Did Jack even write that?
Love is better than anger. - Absolutely. Calling a spade a spade is not anger, just logical.
Hope is better than fear. - Who's scurred? I'm more hopeful than ever. That doesn't include rolling over to those that would tarnish Jack's legacy.
Optimism is better than despair. - As Maysie eloquently put it. Absofuckinlutely.
Sorry for thread drifting. Michelle wrote a great post last night about Jack and his illness. Also, seeing many of my allies in this thread I haven't seen in many others, inspired me to try and write something.
I'm pretty sure Jack would have wanted me to fucking keep on keepin on.
I'm trying to ignore all the trolls.
Love you all. We must teach these folks and not run them off. Make them our friends.
Hoping, no, Believing we are not fearful. Quebecois showed me that.Optimistic that the democratic membership of the NDP will make the right choice. There is no sliver of room for despair in me. (I lie, Jack's success in the election, changed a lot for me in my thinking.)
And for those that feel the NDP is going too far centre, fear not. Everything starts somewhere. My 12 yr old niece's Mom had a very small NDP sign put on her lawn the other day.(unlikely riding) The next day, her neighbours had a huge PC sign put up. My niece came out the next day on her way to school and decided to take the sign up a big mound of soil they had brought in recently for the backyard to display it prominently. Rolling up her sleeves and getting dirty. It was all love, hope and optimism. She has no anger, fear or despair.
The kids are alright.
Optimistic
Oh and she blushes when she swears.
Hey, Catchfire, check out the table included in this wiki entry (click on the table itself to expand it on your screen so you can see the date details). Assuming it's accurate, the printed use of the word "fuck" was used much more commonly between about 1675 and 1800 than it is today. Between about 1825 and 1950, it hardly appeared at all in print, with its use really starting to revive just after 1950.
I enjoy the word. But, it's overuse has started to turn it into white noise. It's not the least bit shocking to hear it. In some sense, it's worse than white noise: Repeated use makes a person sound unimaginative...and perhaps a bit dense. Overusing "fuck" is about as annoying as Valley Girls of the 1980s using "like" repeatedly.
That's a terrible graph to include from a research point of view. It's misleading. Google Books (the source of the graph) mistakes the long s for an f, so "suck" and even the odd "such" show up as "fuck."
Death, that hath fuck'd the honey of thy breath,
Hath had no power yet upon thy beauty.
Right Sven. And Valley Girls was just such a true stereotype too, wasn't it. DOH! C'mon dude, don't make it so easy. People using tropes of Valley Girls is much more dense to me if we must engage in disparaging others.
Do you get out much and socialize?
That's a terrible graph to include from a research point of view. It's misleading. Google Books (the source of the graph) mistakes the long s for an f, so "suck" and even the odd "such" show up as "fuck."
Death, that hath fuck'd the honey of thy breath,
Hath had no power yet upon thy beauty.
But, by that particular reasoning, the word should have shown up with high frequency in the 1500s (but, according to the graph, except for a blip in the last decade of that century, it was essentially absent).
This conversation is all too civilized for the thread topic, but my best guest is that most books at the beginning of the 16th century use a blackletter font, which google books correctly reads--while by the end of the century, most printed books shift to a Roman font, which use a long s Google can't distinguish.
This conversation is all too civilized for the thread topic...
Hehe! Nice dodge Sven.
This conversation is all too civilized for the thread topic,
Your fucking right it is too civil. So stop being so prissy polite and fucking swear more. But never ever tell another person to fuck off. Interesting history according to Urban Legends.
Gxddbov
The word fuck did not originate as an acronym. It crept, fully formed, into the English language from Dutch or Low German around the 15th century (it's impossible to say precisely when because so little documentary evidence exists, probably due to the fact that the word was so taboo throughout its early history that people were afraid to write it down). The American Heritage Dictionary says its first known occurrence in English literature was in the satirical poem "Flen, Flyss" (c.1500), where it was not only disguised as a Latin word but encrypted — gxddbov — which has been deciphered as fuccant, pseudo-Latin for "they fuck."
This thread is getting confuckinfusin
I was composing the below when the Blatchfor thread got closed.
I despise Blatchford. That aside, I never thought I would live to see the day when a thread discussing the permissible uses of "bitch" would take place on Babble. Colour me gobsmacked.
Yeah, I have to wade in here and say, regardless of the various associations or sticky attachments the term has picked up in the course of its venerable history, the language and the culture would be the poorer for the passing of 'bitch' derogatory.
For every incorrect use, there is the inspired door-opening of a new permutation and application. Earlier today listening to BBC Radio Four's 'Ed Reardon's Week' I heard a fabulous use, some sentence involving the term 'bitch-goddess' which identified with irreplaceable specificity a particular constellation of associations that was a comedic TREAT.
Just now on my facebook page a local friend has posted this. It's not to my taste but I defend her right to say such nonsense!
'I'M A BITCH!...Unfortunately most women won't repost this. I'm a handful, I'm strong willed, independent, outspoken and I tell it like it is. I make mistakes, I am sometimes out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best. If you're a bitch repost this...I dare you. I'll be looking for the ladies who repost.
Remember...BITCH means Babe In Total Control of Herself!!'
Hasn't 'nigga' been repossessed?
Reclaiming oppressive language has nothing to do with using a word, a "swear" or otherwise, in its original intent: to insult and degrade.
Women who attempt to reclaim "bitch" and "slut" are irrelevant to this discussion, or to the one about Blatchford.
Fuckin' A, man.
'Blatch' will never, as a vehicle, deliver the same aural EFFECT, sharp, punctuated even percussive as 'bitch'.
That is why 'bitch', along with cock, cunt, prick, damn, shit, fart, piss, fuck, has survived so long in the language. Its original fixed meaning along with its negation - and all the space between have long since established separate identities within the language commons and it continues to operate creatively, in the language, as a living word. It is not a pleasant word perhaps, but I'm not sure that matters. The host of associations it is presumed to conjure are not pleasant - but neither are they fixed.
I'm trying to think of a few instances where men have used "bitch" as anything other than a sexist, misogynist put-down. None come to mind. Not that I don't have my own appreciation of the word, it's just that it's so often the last word a woman hears before her husband/boyfriend breaks her jaw or throws her down the stairs. It's also the "oh, you don't want to have casual sex with me? Haven't given me the sexual attention that, by being male, I am due? You bitch."
I like the word. I use the word. And many feminists will disagree with me with solid grounds for doing so, and I completely respect that. One thing I can say is that men have forfeited their use of the word on the basis of their long-standing misogynist use of the word. Women - whether we reclaim it or rebuke it - are pretty much the only people who should be involved in deciding for themselves what the word means to them.
Rebecca West... got many gay friends?
Several - why?
Let me help you. "Life's a bitch" is a common expression used to characterize existence as difficult even at the best of times. It's used all the time by men and women alike. Sometimes " ... and then you die" is added for effect.
bagkitty, are you suggesting that "gay friends" who use the word bitch are using it without misogynist connotations? It's difficult to tell what you are insinuating.
Maybe we should toss this one over to the transgressive art class 101 and see what they think.
I know there are certain words I avoid using. As for some people not having the right to use certain words, there might be a moral argument there, but in terms of practical application it's meaningless.
Most people are not going to pay attention to being told they are not allowed to do something, especially not those who use it in the worst way.
And on the other hand, I am sure there are some who think no one - including women - should use it. I have heard exactly that opinion about other highly-offensive words which are in common usage. So from the start there is no absolute position.
Use of the word may tell us something about the attitudes of the person using it, but clearly it doesn't always mean the same thing when it comes out of different peoples' mouths.
Before I start educating people about the meaning of words I also need to educate myself what that word means to them - particularly when it is used in a context or culture I am not entirely familiar with. And that is true whether I have a case or not.
(that last sentence may sound highly facetious, but I assure you I don't mean it that way)
This fucking thread has been derailed. I don't mean to go all "alpha dog" on other posters but start fucking swearing or open another fucking thead.
Several -- why?
'Cause I am wondering how you reconcile making essentially blanket statements like:
I'm trying to think of a few instances where men have used "bitch" as anything other than a sexist, misogynist put-down. None come to mind. [...]
and
One thing I can say is that men have forfeited their use of the word on the basis of their long-standing misogynist use of the word.
although I do very much appreciate the qualification of that in the remainder of the paragraph [emphasis added]
Women - whether we reclaim it or rebuke it - are pretty much the only people who should be involved in deciding for themselves what the word means to them.
I definitely don't want to overstate the case, but there are times in gay male discourse where it is not used a pejorative, but rather as a term of approbation. Perhaps
NSFWNSFB[abble], and I wouldn't toss it into the mix casually -- but nor would I endorse the blanket condemnation of the word.____________________
bagkitty, are you suggesting that "gay friends" who use the word bitch are using it without misogynist connotations? It's difficult to tell what you are insinuating.
What I am insinuating is that its misognynist connotations are not dominant in all instances. Too many, but not all.
I've heard the word used in a context you are describing, bagkitty, and I don't agree that it's stripped of its misogynist baggage in those instances, dominant or not.
That said, there have been a number of attempts by feminists to reclaim the word. I'm don't think the THH22M sketch represents one of those attempts, but it is a contested word.
I'd be open to a further discussion of this, but perhaps in another thread. Northern Shoveler is fucking right: this fucking thread is for fucking swearing.
My only regret is not being able to find that clip of Tony Randall demonstrating how complete gibberish works just fine as ersatz profanity. Can't remember which talk show it was on, but if my childhood memory serves me, it was amazing.
The internet is great, but it is not the sum of all knowledge.
Plus, think I paid my dues with that Sopranos clip, for fuck sakes.
There is a word which I think has to be rethought in terms of progressive social and cultural acceptance, especially in the context of politics.
South Park opened the floodgates for its political use.
And there really is no other word to describe those such as:
Rick Perry, Rick Santorum (whose name itself has been recently Savaged), Barak Obama, Stephen Harper, Tim Hudak, etc.
The word starts with a D and ends with a BAG.
It's common Big Bang Theory as well, along with the blatch word.
Should we just accept Sheen as a fucking shining example of freedom of speech. No fucking way is all I have say. Our society is being inundated with nasty nasty images of how people should act towards each other. Rude is the norm and if it is sexist or racist well that is just the way of the world isn't it?
I love swear words especially when they are used in inappropriate situations to really make a point. You know when you are meeting with HR and the mealy mouthed young person is going into mini-lecture mode about things that are irrelevant to the employment relationship. My wife tells me great stories every week about her go arounds with the new breed of HR people who have been hired to harass workers and who doesn't even bother to read the collective agreement. She also loves a shop stewart that every one knows affectionately as Nana since she looks like a small town west coast granny. She loves to chew up fresh faced new managers and HR people and they are always astounded at the language that comes out of her mouth. Very fucking effective in the right context.
My favourite book this year: Go The FUCK To Sleep
Favourite page from the book:
The owls fly forth from the treetops.
Through the air, they soar and they sweep.
A hot crimson rage fills my heart, love.
For real, shut the fuck up and sleep.
When did the middle finger become offensive?
The whole half-time at the Super Bowl was offensive schlock.
This all reminds me of being on the receiving end of a lot of that sort of thing, in different languages even, from my faith bound separated ex-partner, after it became clear in the long run that I couldn't personally subscribe to any sort of spiritual belief system. I like to think it was really her that needed the extra daily prayer sessions toward the end...but I know she was praying for me sometimes, from an otherwise irrepressible and innate sense of kindness.
Blasphemy!
See what I mean? Rather limited in her moves to say the least.
Where was she on that Hail Mary pass when we needed her?
There was a fucking game on? (This is the swearing thread after all)
My fandom began when she once made reference to the fascist state of Toronto during a visit.
Look, if you can't count on fucking Madonna to help on a fucking Hail Mary pass who the fuck can you count on? Fuck!
Fucking forceful point.
Just fucking basic RC fucking theology.
I heard something the other day I thought was interesting, though I'm not sure if it was true. Apparently, the word "fuck", was actually quite romantic way back when. How far back when I'm not sure, but it was used in such a way that "making love", is used now. Anyone know for sure?
p.s.- actually, the phrase, "making love" is pretty odd now that I think of it. I mean, how exactly is love getting made? = P
Actually, the phrase "making love" to someone used to mean charming someone, which I guess you could interpret as making love grow between you. It referred more to the seduction than the sex act. Somehow it changed to just be fucking.
For the record, this is all CanadaApple's fault.
Click if you dare.
Out of nothing at all.
Hee.
Ah Maysie, I'm so lost without you. = P
FUCKING AIR SUPPLY? I DO NOT GET PAID ENOUGH FOR THIS SHIT.
The only reason Maysie and AirApple are not banned is because this is the profanity thread, of which the last two posts are perfect examples.
FUCKING AIR SUPPLY?
Dude, that was uncalled for. I'd never do that.
Lemmy Kilmister rescued me from that era.
Getting us back on track to the thread topic:
If you see Kay.
My wife's from the Midwest. Very nice people there. Very wholesome. They use words like "Cripes". "For Cripes sake." Who would that be - Jesus Cripes? The son of "Gosh" of the church of "Holy Moly"?
I'm not making fun of it. You think I wanna burn in "Heck"?
FUCKING AIR SUPPLY? I DO NOT GET PAID ENOUGH FOR THIS SHIT.
The only reason Maysie and AirApple are not banned is because this is the profanity thread, of which the last two posts are perfect examples.
And now youve hurt my feelings. That wonderful, wonderful song played as I danced with the prettiest girl at our grade eight grad dance.
That's all this fucking thread is about - bad language and bad feelings. Damn you all to hell on a Sunday. Aw fuckit.