What is heaven like?

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absentia
What is heaven like?

You don't need to believe in order to have a picture in your head. For most of us, the concept - some concept - of an afterlife has been part of our cultural matrix since birth. All of us have certainly been exposed to it in various forms and media. I think most North Americans have some visual image of a heaven, some notion of how it's organized, who is allowed in, and even of what to expect and how to behave.

In one version, i imagine walking across a bridge to a grassy meadow and all my dead pets come to greet me. I'd be really disappointed if it turned out that a dog's idea of heaven is never having to speak human again. (A heaven without dogs is unthinkable.)

What's your afterlife?

 

al-Qa'bong

Worms crawling through my eyesockets.

Fidel

I think that scene from the movie Gladiator is a beautiful one. It's a gloriously sunny day, and Max looks out over a golden wheat field flowing in the breeze and sees his wife and child. He joins them.

For very many people, life beyond the grave is an impossibility. There is no scientific proof for it they say and so why bother? The skeptical part of me asks the same thing. But if there is no scientific proof of life after death, is there any circumstantial or otherwise evidence for it? 

Steven(YouTube) talks about his near death experience in 1965. Apparently NDE's have certain things in common, and one of them is experiencing standing near a stream or river and seeing loved ones. And there is some reference point beyond which there is no return to an earthly physical existence.

6079_Smith_W

From Christopher Marlowe

Faustus; Where art thou damned?

Mephistopheles: In hell.

Faustus: How comes it then that thou are out of hell?

Mephistopheles: Why, this is hell, nor am I out of it.

Same thing with heaven, IMO - it is completely internal. If you don't know what heaven is here and now, you never are going to know it, because I seriously doubt there is anything after this.

Fidel

The coffee klatch guys down at Tim Horton's must think you're a genus. 

6079_Smith_W

Fidel wrote:

The coffee klatch guys down at Tim Horton's must think you're a genus. 

Homo, you mean? or is the Tim Hortons reference meant to imply that I am a  member of  Sus? You might know better than me, since I don't really get the point.

And although I don;t have the time to hang out at tim hortons, neither do I think it is very fair to use it as a put-down.

(edit)

but to get back to the point, I certainly feel a lot more like I am in heaven now than I did 15 years ago.

 

6079_Smith_W

Actually, the whole notion of heaven as something unattainable here, and which is just a payoff after you die for which you must suffer and sacrifice here, is the ultimate swindle of religion.

Fidel

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Fidel wrote:

The coffee klatch guys down at Tim Horton's must think you're a genus. 

Homo, you mean? or is the Tim Hortons reference meant to imply that I am a  member of  Sus? You might know better than me, since I don't really get the point.

And although I don;t have the time to hang out at tim hortons, neither do I think it is very fair to use it as a put-down.

 

Well if youre clever enough to quote 16th century English poets, I think you might also be capable of understanding that there is no scientific proof against there being a heaven of some sort. 

And so if we already know that you are not here to provide us with hard scientific proof here in the 21st century that is contrary to the thread topic of interest, then you might also not be serious about discussing the actual thread topic. Am I right?

6079_Smith_W

Who said anything about scientific proof, Fidel? There is no scientific proof about any afterlife.

 I said I seriously doubt it. That is a personal opinion. And more importantly as I said in my last (cross-posted with you) comment. It doesn't matter whether heaven exists or not, because really its only purpose has been as a carrot to get people to follow organized religion.

You want heaven? Make it right here and now - unless you think the banks won't let you.

(edit)

And I am quite serious about the thread topic. As I said, I think heaven and and hell are states of mind.

Fidel

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Actually, the whole notion of heaven as something unattainable here, and which is just a payoff after you die for which you must suffer and sacrifice here, is the ultimate swindle of religion.

Okay? But what if the idea of an afterlife, a heaven let's say, pre-exists organized religion and even civilized society? What if the notion for a heaven of some sort is older than even organized swindle itself?

For example, state-funded health care in the US is a wonderful idea. It saves a lot of lives even though it may be rife with multi-billion dollar swindles. But should they scrap it altogether and go without? Is there no need to explore the idea of publicly funded health care any further because the US model for it is deeply flawed and some would say disgraceful to rich countries in general?

6079_Smith_W wrote:
And I am quite serious about the thread topic. As I said, I think heaven and and hell are states of mind.

Okay we get that already. But try following absentia's suggestion for atheists in line one of post 1. Use your imagination. You do have one?

6079_Smith_W

It doesn't matter. It is all just a reflection of what we experience here and now, and it does not matter if it exists.

The point is, people who see heaven as a big retirement party and something unattainable in this life are just fooling themselves, and missing out on something important in life, IMO.

 (edit)

I think most of us have an understanding of perfect happiness, love and peace, at least in flashes, and that is heaven.

 

Fidel

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Actually, the whole notion of heaven as something unattainable here, and which is just a payoff after you die for which you must suffer and sacrifice here, is the ultimate swindle of religion.

Okay? But what if the idea of an afterlife, a heaven let's say, pre-exists organized religion and even civilized society? What if the notion for a heaven of some sort is older than even organized swindle itself?

For example, state-funded health care in the US is a wonderful idea. It saves a lot of lives even though it may be rife with multi-billion dollar swindles. But should they scrap it altogether and go without? Is there no need to explore the idea of publicly funded health care any further because the US model for it is deeply flawed and some would say disgraceful to rich countries in general?

6079_Smith_W wrote:
And I am quite serious about the thread topic. As I said, I think heaven and and hell are states of mind.

Okay we get that already. But try following absentia's suggestion for atheists(or those with extremist points of view regarding an afterlife) in line one of post 1. Use your imagination. You do have one?

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

I sometimes wonder what I will come back as in my next life.  I spend as much time on contemplation of heaven or hell as I do in contemplating the nature of the divinity of a man supposedly born a couple of millennia ago.  Which is to say I never think about dumb ideas like those.

You cannot prove or disprove the existence of god or an afterlife.  I took a religious compass type test on line once and discovered my idea of god and the afterlife most closely resembles a minor buddhist sect.  They don't believe in heaven either.

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

I also spend absolutely no time contemplating what life would be like in a free market.  

6079_Smith_W

Fidel wrote:

Okay we get that already. But try following absentia's suggestion for atheists in line one of post 1. Use your imagination. You do have one?

I don't need to use my imagination. When I am with my family; when I work in my garden; when I get glimpses of how incredible the wheel of life is, how the universe functions, and some of the selfless acts that people have done, that is heaven.

absentia

And here i thought it would be nice to take time out of argument and contention, to just sit back and imagine....

 

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

absentia wrote:

 I think most North Americans have some visual image of a heaven, some notion of how it's organized, who is allowed in, and even of what to expect and how to behave.

I think any that do are dreaming in Technicolor.  But then I know that most of the ones who dream of going to heaven when they meet me are convinced I will go to hell. But then they are only dreaming and it seems like fun to them.

 

al-Qa'bong

absentia wrote:

And here i thought it would be nice to take time out of argument and contention, to just sit back and imagine....

 

Didn't take Beelzebub and his satanocracy gladio minions into account, dija?

6079_Smith_W

Yup. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. Or were we expecting cream cheese commercials?

If we are talking about heaven as a real thing, it has nothing to do with escapism, but rather finding where your home really is and how you really want to live.

Good topic, by the way. Thanks.

Fidel

6079_Smith_W wrote:
It doesn't matter. It is all just a reflection of what we experience here and now, and it does not matter if it exists.

The point is, people who see heaven as a big retirement party and something unattainable in this life are just fooling themselves, and missing out on something important in life, IMO.

The Church has basically taught people to believe in a heaven that is exclusive to only the most perfect people. For many people both religious and atheist alike, they were taught that heaven is an eternal life of harp-playing and floating on clouds. Or that heaven is a life without pain, or that heaven is eternal bliss.

And for very many people those images are intolerable. It would be a hellish experience for some people to exist in such a way without challenges or suffering any ill consequences. What a monstrous idea they think to themselves. And I tend to agree with them. How mind-numbingly boring it would be. I might even pray for death myself.

It would be almost as boring as someone else's interpretation of what they deem to be bliss here on earth. Someone else's vision of the good life in this earthly realm can be another man's hell. 

And so religious scholars today say that ancient writings do not describe heaven in the traditional way of cloud serfing and endless harp playing. In fact the bible and other religious texts describe heaven quite differently.  

6079_Smith_W wrote:
(edit)I think most of us have an understanding of perfect happiness, love and peace, at least in flashes, and that is heaven.

That's wonderful. But my vision of heaven is of an imperfect one. My image of heaven is filled with endless adventure, great challenges and magnificent experiences beyond the wildest earth-centric imaginations. 

What happens to caterpillars? Do they sleep perchance to dream of a more heavenly life fluttering through the air?

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Talk about extremes?:)

Materialism:

Quote:
Basically, the view that everything is made of matter. But what is matter? Probably the most innocent and cheerful acceptance of it comes right at the start of materialism with Democratius of Abdera (in Northern Greece) in the fifth century B.C., for whom the world consisted entirely of 'atoms', tiny, absolutely hard, impenetrable, incompressible, indivisible and unalterable bits of 'stuff', which had shape and size, but no other properties, and scurried about in the void, forming the world as we know it by jostling each other and either rebounding (despite being incompressible) or getting entangled with each other because of their shapes. They and the void alone are real, the colours, flavours and temperatures that surround us being merely subjective. This model has lasted, with various modifications and sophistications right down to modern times, though the notion of solidity was causing qualms at least as early as Locke. But, in the last century, all has been thrown into confusion by Einstein's famous, E=mc2 and also by general relativity. Mass, the sophisticated notion that has replaced crude matter, is interchangeable in certain circumstances with energy, and in any case is only a sort of distortion of the space in which it was supposed to be floating. Photons and neutrons have little or no mass, while particles pop out of the void, destroy each other and pop back in again.'The Oxford Companion To Philosophy', edited by Ted Honderich. Oxford University Press, 1995

The point is I think, is in how we can create "our own despair" in our observation of the subjectiveness of our own Gravity? This then comes as a weighted part of our being in measure and moving in the world? What if there was a way to feel much lighter and weighing of these subjective things?

6079_Smith_W

Fidel wrote:

That's wonderful. But my vision of heaven is of an imperfect one. My image of heaven is filled with endless adventure, great challenges and magnificent experiences beyond the wildest earth-centric imaginations. 

I think that is only a concern if you think of heaven as a permanent state divorced from our real world, And really, even if you think of the cornyest idea of heaven, can you imagine anyone who would want to be in ANY completely static environment for all eternity?

Heaven is like a more personal equivalent of our ideal political structure, which will never exist in reality, but which inspires us to work to create a better world.

And there's this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Heaven

 

MegB

I'd like to believe in an afterlife, but I suspect that when we die, that's it.  Maybe there's a bit of a light show put on by our dying brains, but heaven as a reward for earthly suffering doesn't enter into my concept of the universe.

Earthly heaven is something else entirely.  Sitting in my yard reading a good book, while the cat plays with butterflies in the garden.  I remember a time when my most vigorous outdoor activity was walking to the food bank and not even contemplating having a yard, never mind the time to relax and enjoy a good book in it.  It's that difficult time in life that makes the simple things so sweet - that's heaven.  Pedestrian and bourgeois as it is, I can think of nothing better.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

What Dreams May Come

The point is I think, that even if your dead and you say your dead, it's true:) It's a question of how much importance you place on distinguishing between the reality( the hard things of matter) of what your living subjectively and what continues unabated? So you tend to believe that you live,  as if these things never die. Or, that you want never want to become lost in some fog of your uncontrolled thinking, and that any book of dying, is really a book about living. It about what not to hold onto in the last minutes versus living a virtual nightmare of fear and discomfort(hell)?

So the picture above is quite the illusory image of playing with all things subjective and unreal. Playing with "matter and energy?"

Fidel

Winstanley's comment that priests had it both ways is true. Tibetan monks, for example, lived off the sweat and toil of peasants for centuries without lifting a finger themselves. And for centuries before Winstanley and the diggers, though, the abbeys, monasteries and friaries served to provide England's first social services to the poor. Scholars today mourn the loss of hundreds or thousands of books of antiquity with the sacking and looting that went on. But it started as a campaign by Protestants loathing Catholicism and aimed their anti-clerical rhetoric at mostly literate Englishmen who would benefit personally by the land grabs and looting of historical buildings and vast lands owned by the Church then. Much of the stone of the abbeys and priories went to building mansions for rich lords and dukes. Seemingly overnight dry stone walls and hedges were erected to cordone off the land from use by common rabble. Much hunger and suffering among English peasants was the result.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Quote:

Conclusion:The state of mind of the observer plays a crucial role in the perception of time.Einstein

Quote:

SPOILER ALERT:

To make a very, very long story short we discovered via Christian Shephard aka Jack’s dead father that all of the people on Oceanic 815 including Desmond, Daniel, Charlotte, Kate, Sawyer, Miles, Lapidus, Claire, Sayid, Sun, Jin, Richard, Michael, Walt, Miles, Ana Lucia, Locke, Hurley and Benjamin did really live on the island but when they died they moved on to L.A for their afterlife where they had the life that they always dreamed off. In The End we learned that those who did eventually find a way to forgive the people who hurt them , and forgave themselves were reunited with the people who meant something to them an went to heaven.See:Lost Finale Explanation:Lost Purgatory Ending Theories

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

The Hall of Ma'at

Quote:
If the heart was free from the impurities of sin, and therefore lighter than the feather, then the dead person could enter the eternal afterlife.

Fidel

Rebecca West wrote:

I'd like to believe in an afterlife, but I suspect that when we die, that's it.  Maybe there's a bit of a light show put on by our dying brains, but heaven as a reward for earthly suffering doesn't enter into my concept of the universe.

Apparently scientists have ruled out something called temporal lobe epilepsy as explaining the near death experience in its entirety. There are aspects of the NDE which are common across cultures and ethnicities with varying belief systems.

I think Pam Reynolds' NDE is an amazing story. Her diagnosis was basically a death sentence. She didn't have much hope on the way to see a specialist for treatment.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

See that's the thing, no matter what you choose to believe, it is what you believe that sets the reality for you. That's just the way it is.

What is "your sin" and what is "your truth" and how are you living according to the things you weight in your own life according to that truth? Your conscience weights many things and is a really deep part of the soul?:) At night, you listen to it. At night, it creates realities for you? At night, you are a good predictor? You should listen:)

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Quote:

So I got up and I jumped onto my cardio glider, which is a full-body exercise machine. And I'm jamming away on this thing, and I'm realizing that my hands looked like primitive claws grasping onto the bar. I thought "that's very peculiar" and I looked down at my body and I thought, "whoa, I'm a weird-looking thing." And it was as though my consciousness had shifted away from my normal perception of reality, where I'm the person on the machine having the experience, to some esoteric space where I'm witnessing myself having this experience.Stroke of insight: Jill Bolte Taylor

Bold added for emphasis.

absentia

Rebecca West wrote:

I'd like to believe in an afterlife, but I suspect that when we die, that's it.  Maybe there's a bit of a light show put on by our dying brains, but heaven as a reward for earthly suffering doesn't enter into my concept of the universe.

Earthly heaven is something else entirely.  Sitting in my yard reading a good book, while the cat plays with butterflies in the garden.  I remember a time when my most vigorous outdoor activity was walking to the food bank and not even contemplating having a yard, never mind the time to relax and enjoy a good book in it.  It's that difficult time in life that makes the simple things so sweet - that's heaven.  Pedestrian and bourgeois as it is, I can think of nothing better.

I don't believe it, either. This is just a mental game i play: furnish heaven. Moments like that - a perfect sunset, a beautiful tree, a warm night breeze in Vegas, a pebly beach on Vancouver Island, a red fleece vest,  the bluejay outside my window doing that pleasant little warble instead of his usual racous call, chocolate mousse, Mozart, irises, a good joke - i collect them to take into the next world.

Of course if i'm destined to start over as a baby dinasour on an orange/purlple planet, it'll probably all get confiscated at the exit.

absentia

Missed a couple of posts there, so this won't make sense. My fault for not using the quote function.

I do dream in colour. Not techni, just natural.

In order to feel light, you'd have to leave your body behind. Not like the JW's, clumping around the sky in their bulky, outworn flesh. More like the Catholics, in their white gowns and wings. I can see the fundies forever getting up petitions to have the gay couples de-haloed. And what arrangements for the Muslim population?

My brother used to speculate that the last thing you're aware of before death is your eternity, and that makes a horrible kind of sense. I reject it. I want everyone to have the heaven of their own dreams - wherever, whenever.

Fidel

Spectrum wrote:

See that's the thing, no matter what you choose to believe, it is what you believe that sets the reality for you. That's just the way it is.

I "got" your post about materialism at #20 btw. I realize some people think of reality in the old scientific way. Newtonian atomic theory had to be scrapped sometime after turn of the last century. 

I think there are many possibilities for reality in the scientific sense. Apparently M-theory says there are 10^500 different universes, each with its own set of laws for the way things are. Could there be a god or god-like beings residing in one of them? Are we able to experience some of these parallel worlds by our dream states, imaginations, creativity and even on psychic levels as Fritjof Capra suggests? Apparently the possibilities are more than we knew. Atheists say no, but mathematicians and leading edge theoretical physicists say yes, it is possible and more probable than at any time since the overthrow of Newtonian atomic theory.

absentia

Heaven doesn't have a ruling class. No god(s), no seraphim or cherubim or saints. Pure, sweet anarchy.

 

Sven Sven's picture

al-Qa'bong wrote:

Worms crawling through my eyesockets.

Ha!  That is almost precisely what I was thinking!

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Fidel wrote:
I "got" your post about materialism at #20 btw. I realize some people think of reality in the old scientific way. Newtonian atomic theory had to be scrapped sometime after turn of the last century.

 

I am glad you got to know me. It also present the opportunity for understanding a model of approach that is as old as time itself in terms of the densities of matter perspectives as a overarching description in the expression of the geometrical proponents of the Pyramid itself.

The earth discipleship based on the square and the direction viewed from above(triangle and arch), as to perfection within the body itself?

An ascent with mind as to what can transpire in reaching toward the inductive/deductive approach as to what can enter mind when raised from the lower centers of our evolution,  to avenues of mind with body.  Not just from reaction of body alone. This is an emotive correlation with overcoming this primitive based expressions,  as ever the struggle toward such perfection. No one is perfect, but of awareness about choice, then such evolution is of a choice recognized as being retained in our quest toward truth and understanding, allocates our place in the reality of our expressions?

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

I have read some stuff on bio-centrism and I think the model they are working within is extremely interesting.  I believe that matter and energy are not separate.  What does animate all animals and life forms?  Does the energy that is a part of my whole exist after this body dies?  I think it is obvious that in a physical sense it does.  Heaven myths seem to me to all be attempts to capture that reality.  Although we die our bodies both as mass and energy get recycled in new forms. 

Quote:

In modern everyday life, however, we’ve come to regard space as sort of a vast container that has no walls. In it, we cognize separate objects that were first learned and identified. These patterns are blocked out by the thinking mind within boundaries of color, shape or utility. Human language and ideation alone decide where the boundaries of one object end and another begins.

Multiple illusions and processes routinely impart a false view of space. Shall we count the ways? 1. Empty space is in fact not empty. 2. Distances between objects can and do mutate depending on a multitude of conditions like gravity and speed, so that no bedrock distance exists anywhere, between anything and anything else. 3. Quantum theory casts serious doubt about whether even distant individual items are truly separated at all, and 4. We “see” separations between objects only because we have been conditioned and trained, through language and convention, to draw boundaries.

Now, space and time illusions are certainly harmless. A problem only arises because, by treating space as something physical, existing in itself, science imparts a completely wrong starting point for investigations into the nature of reality. In reality there can be no break between the observer and the observed.  If the two are split, the reality is gone.  Space, like time, is not an object or a thing.  Space and time are forms of our animal sense perception. We carry them around with us like turtles with shells.  Thus, there is no absolute self-existing matrix in which physical events occur independent of life.

Where do we go from here? 


Biocentrism offers a springboard to make sense of aspects of biological and physical science which are currently insensible. Natural areas of biocentric research include the realm of brain-architecture, neuroscience, and the nature of consciousness itself.  Another is the ongoing research into artificial intelligence. Though still in its infancy, few doubt that this century, in which computer power and capabilities keep expanding geometrically, will eventually bring researchers to confront the problem in a serious way. A “thinking device” will need the same kind of algorithms for employing time and developing a sense of space that we enjoy.

Finally, one must consider the endless ongoing attempts at creating “grand unified theories.” Currently such efforts in physics have typically stretched for decades without much success. Incorporating the living universe — and allowing the observer into the equation as the late John Wheeler insists is necessary — will at minimum produce a fascinating amalgam of the living and non-living in a way that should make everything work better. It should provide stronger bases for solving some of the problems associated with quantum physics and the Big Bang. Accepting space and time as forms of animal sense perception (as biologic), rather than as external physical objects, offers a new way of understanding everything from the microworld (for instance, the reason for Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle and the two-hole experiment) to the forces, constants, and laws that shape the universe.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31393080/ns/technology_and_science-science/t...

 

absentia

Spectrum wrote:

 It also present the opportunity for understanding a model of approach that is as old as time itself in terms of the densities of matter perspectives as a overarching description in the expression of the geometrical proponents of the Pyramid itself.

The earth discipleship based on the square and the direction viewed from above(triangle and arch), as to perfection within the body itself?

An ascent with mind as to what can transpire in reaching toward the inductive/deductive approach as to what can enter mind when raised from the lower centers of our evolution,  to avenues of mind with body.  Not just from reaction of body alone. This is an emotive correlation with overcoming this primitive based expressions,  as ever the struggle toward such perfection. No one is perfect, but of awareness about choice, then such evolution is of a choice recognized as being retained in our quest toward truth and understanding, allocates our place in the reality of our expressions?

Aside from "Huh?" in generaL, i have a question in particular:

"a model of approach that is as old as time itself"

Who was approaching and modeling at the beginning of time? Itself?

Fidel

absentia wrote:

Spectrum wrote:

 It also present the opportunity for understanding a model of approach that is as old as time itself in terms of the densities of matter perspectives as a overarching description in the expression of the geometrical proponents of the Pyramid itself.

The earth discipleship based on the square and the direction viewed from above(triangle and arch), as to perfection within the body itself?

An ascent with mind as to what can transpire in reaching toward the inductive/deductive approach as to what can enter mind when raised from the lower centers of our evolution,  to avenues of mind with body.  Not just from reaction of body alone. This is an emotive correlation with overcoming this primitive based expressions,  as ever the struggle toward such perfection. No one is perfect, but of awareness about choice, then such evolution is of a choice recognized as being retained in our quest toward truth and understanding, allocates our place in the reality of our expressions?

Aside from "Huh?" in generaL, i have a question in particular:

"a model of approach that is as old as time itself"

Who was approaching and modeling at the beginning of time? Itself?

Omega Point   is a term coined by the French Jesuit Pierre Teilhard de Chardin (1881-1955) to describe a maximum level of complexity and consciousness towards which the universe appears to be evolving.

David Deutsch(atheist) has done a lot of work with the Church-Turing thesis and has suggested that universal quantum computers exist at the end of space-time in every universe and operated/controlled by "sentient beings". Deutsch suggests that information, as opposed to raw data, is part of an ever evolving complex and increasingly conscious universe(s).

absentia

Oh. I know some words and could define most of those individually, but can find no meaning in this configuration. Well, i'm uneducated - the most esoteric thing i studied in tech school was blood-spatter.

Fidel

Oh believe me when I say that I only vaguely understand what they are talking about in general. They are only theories for now, but the math seems to be pointing them in the direction of Hugh Everett's multiple worlds theory. Deutsch and Greene and Kaku and Witten etc are people at the leading edge of theoretical physics. This string theory stuff used to be considered only at the fringes of theoretical physics back in the 1970s. Today it's mainstream. Standard model theorist Larry Krauss is one of string theory's biggest critics. He wrote recently, though, that it seems as if metaphysics is on the verge of becoming science WRT new discoveries at CERN and Hubble etc.

Caissa

WinkNothing like babble.

Slumberjack

absentia wrote:
Heaven doesn't have a ruling class. No god(s), no seraphim or cherubim or saints. Pure, sweet anarchy. 

I don't know about that.  The last time there was a hint of revolt, we ended up with expulsions, eternal hell, and a talking snake that fucked us over royally.  The literature suggests somebody's in charge of something.

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture
Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Fidel wrote:
Apparently M-theory says there are 10^500 different universes, each with its own set of laws for the way things are. Could there be a god or god-like beings residing in one of them?

The probability outcome is a deviation from what was perfect(asymmetrical). You can call it heaven if you like too?:) In a Platonist kind of view. It is speaking to an outcome situated in the valley from such an expression, as to what can reside in that valley. Think of a pencil pointed standing on end and asking which way it will fall. It is a example of the geometrical demonstration of "degrees of freedom" as to the model of a calabi yau in expression. Which one?

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

absentia wrote:

Spectrum wrote:

 It also present the opportunity for understanding a model of approach that is as old as time itself in terms of the densities of matter perspectives as a overarching description in the expression of the geometrical proponents of the Pyramid itself.

The earth discipleship based on the square and the direction viewed from above(triangle and arch), as to perfection within the body itself?

An ascent with mind as to what can transpire in reaching toward the inductive/deductive approach as to what can enter mind when raised from the lower centers of our evolution,  to avenues of mind with body.  Not just from reaction of body alone. This is an emotive correlation with overcoming this primitive based expressions,  as ever the struggle toward such perfection. No one is perfect, but of awareness about choice, then such evolution is of a choice recognized as being retained in our quest toward truth and understanding, allocates our place in the reality of our expressions?

Aside from "Huh?" in generaL, i have a question in particular:

"a model of approach that is as old as time itself"

Who was approaching and modeling at the beginning of time? Itself?

Platonic Solids..... Plato?

Quote:
Plato’s theory combines elements of the views of many of his predecessors.Plato’s Cosmology: The Timaeus

An attempt, at a foundational approach to understanding the world.

 

absentia

Slumberjack wrote:

absentia wrote:
Heaven doesn't have a ruling class. No god(s), no seraphim or cherubim or saints. Pure, sweet anarchy. 

I don't know about that.  The last time there was a hint of revolt, we ended up with expulsions, eternal hell, and a talking snake that fucked us over royally.  The literature suggests somebody's in charge of something.

Oh, that literature! Read another book. Ra knows, there are plenty of models to choose from. But maybe i'll pass on Plato's.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Plato Pointing toward ideas

Quote:
And thus, Glaucon, the tale has been saved and has not perished, and will save us if we are obedient to the word spoken; and we shall pass safely over the river of Forgetfulness and our soul will not be defiled. Wherefore my counsel is that we hold fast ever to the heavenly way and follow after justice and virtue always, considering that the soul is immortal and able to endure every sort of good and every sort of evil. Thus shall we live dear to one another and to the gods, both while remaining here and when, like conquerors in the games who go round to gather gifts, we receive our reward. And it shall be well with us both in this life and in the pilgrimage of a thousand years which we have been describing.Plato's Republic-Book X, end: The Myth of Er

Babble Heaven :)

Fidel

Cool music. However, Michio Kaku(YouTube) says it's a foregone conclusion that we are not alone in the heavens. It would be supremely arrogant to believe that we are the most significant beings in the whole universe, or even just the Milky Way. Unfortunately even some of us lefties are not immune to thinking in terms of dominant culture and Euro-centrism on a more subtle level.

 Earth-centric thinking will one day give way to the realization that our own galaxy is teeming with life. Evolutionary theory now says that life proliferates in environments that were previously thought to be impossible for life. Sightings of visitors to the new world have been occurring for a long time. Like the pre-Columbian inhabitants of the new world, people all over the world have reported sightings of the newcomers' mainsails approaching on the horizon. 

Biologists visit CERN for help with the origins of life.

And, the evidence that we are being observed by extraterrestrial intelligence is everywhere all around us. There are photographs of UFOs which pre-date Adobe's line of computer based photo and video editing software. 

The problem today is not that people aren't willing to blow the whistle on every kind of written and unwritten government-corporate policy for secrecy and non-accountability to the public whom they serve - the problem is actually that of deep-seated corruption and lack of transparency and accountability in government and their corporate owners. The problem is a lack of democracy in countries professing to be the torch-bearers of democracy. The struggle for democracy and truth continues.

Sven Sven's picture

When I saw Fidel's name on the AT page next to this thread, I thought his would be a one-word answer to the query posed by this thread's title:

CUBA!!!

Tongue out

Snert Snert's picture

If I'm not mistaken, Gammy and Gampy will be there, and so will Rusty, who I haven't seen since he went to live with that nice farmer.  We'll walk on clouds and it's always summer, and everything smells like cookies.

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