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Syndicate
I don't believe it, either. This is just a mental game i play: furnish heaven. Moments like that - a perfect sunset, a beautiful tree, a warm night breeze in Vegas, a pebly beach on Vancouver Island, a red fleece vest, the bluejay outside my window doing that pleasant little warble instead of his usual racous call, chocolate mousse, Mozart, irises, a good joke - i collect them to take into the next world.
Of course if i'm destined to start over as a baby dinasour on an orange/purlple planet, it'll probably all get confiscated at the exit.
I "got" your post about materialism at #20 btw. I realize some people think of reality in the old scientific way. Newtonian atomic theory had to be scrapped sometime after turn of the last century.
I think there are many possibilities for reality in the scientific sense. Apparently M-theory says there are 10^500 different universes, each with its own set of laws for the way things are. Could there be a god or god-like beings residing in one of them? Are we able to experience some of these parallel worlds by our dream states, imaginations, creativity and even on psychic levels as Fritjof Capra suggests? Apparently the possibilities are more than we knew. Atheists say no, but mathematicians and leading edge theoretical physicists say yes, it is possible and more probable than at any time since the overthrow of Newtonian atomic theory.
Heaven doesn't have a ruling class. No god(s), no seraphim or cherubim or saints. Pure, sweet anarchy.
The probability outcome is a deviation from what was perfect(asymmetrical). You can call it heaven if you like too?:) In a Platonist kind of view. It is speaking to an outcome situated in the valley from such an expression, as to what can reside in that valley. Think of a pencil pointed standing on end and asking which way it will fall. It is a example of the geometrical demonstration of "degrees of freedom" as to the model of a calabi yau in expression. Which one?
Ha! That is almost precisely what I was thinking!
I am glad you got to know me. It also present the opportunity for understanding a model of approach that is as old as time itself in terms of the densities of matter perspectives as a overarching description in the expression of the geometrical proponents of the Pyramid itself.
The earth discipleship based on the square and the direction viewed from above(triangle and arch), as to perfection within the body itself?
An ascent with mind as to what can transpire in reaching toward the inductive/deductive approach as to what can enter mind when raised from the lower centers of our evolution, to avenues of mind with body. Not just from reaction of body alone. This is an emotive correlation with overcoming this primitive based expressions, as ever the struggle toward such perfection. No one is perfect, but of awareness about choice, then such evolution is of a choice recognized as being retained in our quest toward truth and understanding, allocates our place in the reality of our expressions?
I have read some stuff on bio-centrism and I think the model they are working within is extremely interesting. I believe that matter and energy are not separate. What does animate all animals and life forms? Does the energy that is a part of my whole exist after this body dies? I think it is obvious that in a physical sense it does. Heaven myths seem to me to all be attempts to capture that reality. Although we die our bodies both as mass and energy get recycled in new forms.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31393080/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/biocentrism-how-life-creates-universe/
Aside from "Huh?" in generaL, i have a question in particular:
"a model of approach that is as old as time itself"
Who was approaching and modeling at the beginning of time? Itself?
Omega Point is a term coined by the French Jesuit Pierre Teilhard de Chardin (1881-1955) to describe a maximum level of complexity and consciousness towards which the universe appears to be evolving.
David Deutsch(atheist) has done a lot of work with the Church-Turing thesis and has suggested that universal quantum computers exist at the end of space-time in every universe and operated/controlled by "sentient beings". Deutsch suggests that information, as opposed to raw data, is part of an ever evolving complex and increasingly conscious universe(s).
Oh. I know some words and could define most of those individually, but can find no meaning in this configuration. Well, i'm uneducated - the most esoteric thing i studied in tech school was blood-spatter.
Oh believe me when I say that I only vaguely understand what they are talking about in general. They are only theories for now, but the math seems to be pointing them in the direction of Hugh Everett's multiple worlds theory. Deutsch and Greene and Kaku and Witten etc are people at the leading edge of theoretical physics. This string theory stuff used to be considered only at the fringes of theoretical physics back in the 1970s. Today it's mainstream. Standard model theorist Larry Krauss is one of string theory's biggest critics. He wrote recently, though, that it seems as if metaphysics is on the verge of becoming science WRT new discoveries at CERN and Hubble etc.
Platonic Solids..... Plato?
An attempt, at a foundational approach to understanding the world.
I don't know about that. The last time there was a hint of revolt, we ended up with expulsions, eternal hell, and a talking snake that fucked us over royally. The literature suggests somebody's in charge of something.
Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens
Babble Heaven :)
Oh, that literature! Read another book. Ra knows, there are plenty of models to choose from. But maybe i'll pass on Plato's.
Cool music. However, Michio Kaku(YouTube) says it's a foregone conclusion that we are not alone in the heavens. It would be supremely arrogant to believe that we are the most significant beings in the whole universe, or even just the Milky Way. Unfortunately even some of us lefties are not immune to thinking in terms of dominant culture and Euro-centrism on a more subtle level.
Earth-centric thinking will one day give way to the realization that our own galaxy is teeming with life. Evolutionary theory now says that life proliferates in environments that were previously thought to be impossible for life. Sightings of visitors to the new world have been occurring for a long time. Like the pre-Columbian inhabitants of the new world, people all over the world have reported sightings of the newcomers' mainsails approaching on the horizon.
Biologists visit CERN for help with the origins of life.
And, the evidence that we are being observed by extraterrestrial intelligence is everywhere all around us. There are photographs of UFOs which pre-date Adobe's line of computer based photo and video editing software.
The problem today is not that people aren't willing to blow the whistle on every kind of written and unwritten government-corporate policy for secrecy and non-accountability to the public whom they serve - the problem is actually that of deep-seated corruption and lack of transparency and accountability in government and their corporate owners. The problem is a lack of democracy in countries professing to be the torch-bearers of democracy. The struggle for democracy and truth continues.
When I saw Fidel's name on the AT page next to this thread, I thought his would be a one-word answer to the query posed by this thread's title:
CUBA!!!
If I'm not mistaken, Gammy and Gampy will be there, and so will Rusty, who I haven't seen since he went to live with that nice farmer. We'll walk on clouds and it's always summer, and everything smells like cookies.
ewhat kinda cookies, maybe I am interested then?
Sounds like youre describing the ideologues' free market utopia. Keynesians refer to it as the political right's solemn promise that things will be better for a still significantly large and desperate humanity ... in the economic long run. Yes, there are some who actually do believe in the strangest things without demanding a shred of proof. At least religionists have the promise of an eternal afterlife as a reward for keeping the faith. Neoliberals promise only the economic long run which never seems to deliver for half to two-thirds of the world's population.
I asked you guys to share your childish, original, picturesque fantasies, not to present proofs.
Cuba could be an approximation of heaven on earth.* Fine climate, lovely people, a pretty okay social structure, plenty of brains, some decent attitude. Maybe on another thread we could explore how they should proceed.
*which is all right, but leaves little room for musical instruments, esoteric means of propulsion, chromatic idisyncrasy and puffy clouds.
I think it must be you and about 36% of Americans/Republican Party supporters who are obssessed with a tiny country in the Caribbean. Because I haven't mentioned Cuba in quite a while. Try turning yourself off of the omnipresent right wing radio/TV/newsprint propaganda for a time, and tell us how you feel then.
Taurean Scatology has always been one of my favorite subjects. I am glad to see it is alive and well on rabble.ca
Exactly. Even during the most devout period of my youth I always felt deeply unsettled by the thought of spending eternity in heaven.
If there are dogs, you are in purgatory.
If there are squirrels, you are in hell.
If there are cats, then, and only then, you are in heaven.
So Paul Martin winds up at the Pearly Gates and St. Pete says "Because you were a famous person you get to choose whether you want to go to heaven or hell". Martin opts to try heaven first, and it was very quiet, nice and bright, and full of people talking about Theology and praising the Lord. So after a few days of that he asks St. Pete to send him down to hell to check it out. Down he goes, and although the place is done up like Cherry Cola's Rock & Rollers bar, hell has nice ladies who look like Marilyn Monroe walking around serving nice drinks, cigars, cocaine and giving out their phone numbers. Not only that, but Trudeau and Nixon are down there too, and the conversation is amazing! After a few days of that he goes back to St. Pete to give him the final decision, and he opts for Hell.
Down he goes, and suddenly Hell is as depicted by Heironymous Bosch, with endless suffering, pain and torment, gnashing of teeth, wailing... Already in pain, he pleads with the Devil... "What happened to the place with the girls and the cigars and the drinks?"
"Oh you should know, Mr. Martin.... Promises...."
You're describing different flavours of the same snake oil. Well done.
Well no because with the new science since Durac, Einstein, Bohr, and Heisenberg etc there is the possibility for both in a parallel universe or whatever the case may be. Both the capitalist economic long run and religion require faith to be believed, but religionists have always held that their utopia exists somewhere else. Capitalists are running the same shell game except with fewer rewards in the here and now for the large majority of humanity. At least one of these groups has been lying, and without any great scientific effort we know which of them is lying right off the bat without having to investigate infinity in all directions.
IOWs one of these man-made belief systems promises equality for all and everlasting life, punishment for the wicked, and barred entry into heaven for those who refuse to part from faith in materialism and personal wealth.
Evolution says that technically, anything is feasible given long enough periods of time. Immortality and scientific victories over hunger, disease, ignorance and material poverty are theoretically possible. Perhaps it's been done by some advanced species out there somewhere. We're too busy fighting one another and enslaving one another with debt servitude to afford serious space exploration and alternative energy sources in order to avoid ending ourselves. It's a stupid species, or at least a technologically adolescent species that designs a global economic system around dead plants and non-renawables as energy sources. Talk about bad central planning.
For capitalists this is heaven. Things couldn't be much better for them. There is little incentive for them to part with personal wealth and investing in the future. Capitalism is all about investing the least and extracting the most ASAP without much thought for the future. Predatory capitalism and aggressive behaviours in general are throwbacks in human evolution. We will probably not evolve into much until we change our ways. Capitalism is month-to-month balance sheet planning and quarterly earnings projections. It's short term with no regard for advancing evolution. It's threatening every living thing on earth by pollution, resource stripping, and an economic system designed around artificial scarcity or using up and wasting resources. Wars of aggression and resource depletion whichever comes first will end us before we have a chance to develop technologies of the future.
But this is how the world is run by a mafia-like hierarchy of thundering nit wits and evil-clever monkeys with highly evolved senses of self-interest and appalling greed. And democracy is the cure for economic and evolutionary stagnation caused by these low forehead types monopolizing power. Democracy is the holy grail for us socialists who believe that heaven has to exist in our own minds before it can be realized. Anything is possible according to the new science and socialists alike. I believe that the new science since turn of the last century and old world religious ideas are merging in a way. We have to believe though, because there is a spark of divinity in every one of us. We have the capability for achieving great things larger than ourselves and contributing to a greater good. We can't allow these supreme idiots in power to hold back human evolution for much longer. We have to outsmart them and beat them at their own game for the sake of the future. Our future that is and not their's because the right doesn't believe in promoting or investing in any viable future for humanity. Predatory capitalism is a dead end for humanity, and the challenge is to try to change the path we're on.