More on the God Delusion

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Rod Manchee

Intelligence being defined as a) the ability to avoid being eaten too quickly and/or b) the ability to reproduce more quickly.

DonnyBGood
Fidel

quote:


Originally posted by DonnyBGood:
[b][url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o]carlin[/url][/b]

Ha! Reward of afterlife, promise of an economic long run, same thing. Carlin's a laff riot.

Actually, Tom Harpur had something to say about religion's promise of an afterlife. On the flip side of that argument, most powerfully rich people have no interest in an afterlife, or that there is something more important than themselves. At least not until their end of days arrives. They sometimes have second thoughts in their last hours of life.

And then there is the finality of death, the end of life. Medical experts say clinical death occurs when brainwaves and vital signs no longer register. And sometimes the clincally dead come back from the "other side" and describe what are very similar experiences. Near death experiences from around the world increased at a time when heart resuscitation techniques were improving. Are these people seeing flashes of light in their brains as a result of oxygen starvation and dying neurons? Or is it something else, something "immaterial" to science?

[ 18 October 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]

DonnyBGood

quote:


Are these people seeing flashes of light in their brains as a result of oxygen starvation and dying neurons? Or is it something else, something "immaterial" to science?

I think one scientist talked about conciousness - I think it was Rutherford. He said that science and conciousness were intertwined aand that it was impossible to imagine the end of a powerful intellect seated in a sound conciousness.

The only quote I can find is

quote:


Of all created comforts, God is the lender; you are the borrower, not the owner.

Pretty socialistic concept in a way...

[img]smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Noise

Good thread. Has anyone challenged the assumption that life started here on earth yet?

Fidel:

quote:

"As far as what's really going on in the world, I don't have a clue, except that it's much stranger than we once thought, and somehow consciousness seems to be involved," -- Kuttner & Rosenblum , Quantum Enigma: Physics Encounters Consciousness

Good book... Ken Wilbur in a 'Brief History of Everything' introduces the term Holon to describe nearly everything as a whole on its own. This whole can be broken into it's parts (which are wholes themselves) or assembled as parts in a new whole. There seems to be a consciousness or will that takes these wholes and creatively assembles these parts. With this view, Evolution becomes a self-trascending process. As Whitehead puts it 'The ultimate metaphysical ground is the creative advance into novelty' (though I personally prefer the modified 'Creative emergence into novelty' version of the quote). The Quantum Enigma really plays well into this line of thought.

Any other authors along these lines that you follow Fidel? Always interested in increasing the span of my reading.

[ 31 October 2007: Message edited by: Noise ]

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

quote:


Has anyone challenged the assumption that life started here on earth yet?

Yes, life started in heaven inside the workshop of the giant, beloved, but violently jealous, watchmaker.

Noise

quote:


Yes, life started in heaven inside the workshop of the giant, beloved, but violently jealous, watchmaker.

Never sure of FM... But is this suggesting we were genetically engineered in some unearthly 'heavenly' environment and put here? [img]rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

GOD

er...well, it wasn't quite like all that.

Never made a watch in my life really, and that's a pretty long time.

Noise

"We think therefore You are"

So is highspeed common there, or should I request to be cremated with my wireless router?

GOD

The interface with all conceivable sources and entities is as fast and intuitive as you are yourself*, no more and no less.

*on a good day

Albireo

Listen, dude, if you are really GOD, how come your Babbler Number is 2781? Shouldn't you have held out for either 1 or 0?

GOD

If you can give me an justification of why any given numeral or series of numerals has a greater qualitative value or more goodness than another, I shall make it thus.

Numerals and ordinals are for linear thinkers. I know it's difficult for you to function outside of your four dimentional box, but I am pleased when you try.

spillunk

How is the word "dimensional" spelled in the 5th dimension and higher?

Or did God just make a typo.

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

GOD messed up. Again.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

FM stop that blasphemy. It is obvious you are not smart enough to see the intelligent design behind the spelling.

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

You're right! Finally I see the lyte.

GOD

Actually, my way is correct. Everyone else has it wrong. Even the good people at Oxford and Webster are wrong, but they are good, earnest and sincere people, and I forgive them.

Come to think of it I pretty much forgive most stuff.

Noise

Any way your intelligent design can include a reminder for me to ask for the forgiveness on my deathbed but not a moment before?

[ 02 November 2007: Message edited by: Noise ]

GOD

Meh..what's to forgive? You've certainly never offended me. Try and work it so that there aren't too many others who's forgiveness you might think of seeking and you'll be fine. So far you're doing ok. Fortunately I don't expect the same burden of perfection that many seem to place on me. I bet I'm the only poster here who gets spelling flames.

BTW, thanks for describing the design as intellegent. Some time I'll have to tell you how it really all went down way back then.

Geneva

quote:


Originally posted by Noise:
[b]Any way your intelligent design can include a reminder for me to ask for the forgiveness on my deathbed but not a moment before?
[/b]

that is like the alleged deathbed quip of Voltaire, who was asked by a priest if he was "ready to renounce the devil", to which he replied:
"Now is not the time to be making enemies! "

Noise

Heh, thanks Geneva... I knew I stole that from somewhere

quote:

I bet I'm the only poster here who gets spelling flames.

Meh, if God doesn't play dice why must God use a spell check?

Fidel

quote:


Originally posted by Noise:
[b]Good thread. Has anyone challenged the assumption that life started here on earth yet?[/b]

I think there are scientists who would say without a doubt that life exists and has evolved out there a long time ago in a galaxy far-far away. Hey I once shook hands with Obi Wan Kenobi(Alec Guiness really) when I was a kid, and it affected me. [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img] I like what one person said on the subject, that we are proof that life exists in outer space.

[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=&xml=/eart... Quantum Theory of Dreams[/url]

quote:

A physicist claims to have come up with the first successful use of quantum theory to explain features of consciousness in research hailed as a landmark in efforts to bring mathematics to bear on the mysteries of the human mind.

Some say it's possible evidence for quantum underpinnings of human consiousness. And there are skeptics as usual. A York University(Ontario) professor says the brain is a macroscopic machine not a microscopic one where quantum theory rules. How does he know for sure?

eta: If you ever have the opportunity to try a virtual reality "VR" computer simulation, you'll notice something weird. The headset has to be adjusted for the individual wearer, because not everyone has the same peripheral range of vision. Your eyes are arranged in your head differently than the next person. And it gives a different, what is referred to as, binocular parallax visual experience. I have no idea what that may or may not have to do with quantum consciousness, just that if the headset isn't adjusted right, you'll become nauseous viewing a different image projection in each eye.

[ 04 November 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]

Tommy_Paine

I'd be willing to bet that if a person wore an uncorrected VR for a long enough period of time, his or her brain might correct the double image to produce a single one.

jrootham

Absolutely, there was an experiment where people wore glasses that flipped the world upside down. I recall it took less than 2 days for them to start seeing the world normally. When they took the glasses off it took the same amount of time for them to see normally again.

Noise

I was watching the Race to Mars crap on the discovery channel yesterday, which was centered on finding life on Mars... Brings up a few potentials as far as the 'life started on Earth' view goes.

It's possible we'll find signs of life (fossils) but no actual life. Not quite sure what we info we can get from that, except comparissons to life here on Earth.

Possible we'll find dead life on Mars (instead of fossils, actual 'dead' life forms like bacterias an so on). This would allow us to compare the genetic make-up of the life and see if it follows the same as life here. The major distinction would be to say life on earth and mars are related and came from the same source.

Final option would be to find live bacterias and other life forms... Which opens more possiblities as to how that life relates to life on Earth.

From what I see/read/know, I would expect any life on Mars to be related to life on Earth (I'm under the belief that Earth is a seeded planet and didn't create life on it's own)... But I'm sure there will be many other opinions on that.

I guess the final option would be to find no life what-so-ever, but of all the possibilities, I now think thats the least likely.

quote:

Absolutely, there was an experiment where people wore glasses that flipped the world upside down. I recall it took less than 2 days for them to start seeing the world normally. When they took the glasses off it took the same amount of time for them to see normally again.

The human mind is an amazing thing... I know people that have trained themselves to read upside down. For the first little while it's exceedingly difficult, but once you've trained yourself you can easily flip it over in your mind. If you haven't done it yet... flip your mouse to the other side and see how long it takes to your mind to train your off hand on mouse use.

[ 05 November 2007: Message edited by: Noise ]

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