Libel, fair comment, and Palestine
September 8, 2010 - 10:53pm
Hi fellow babblers,
As you know, I've been involved in the Palestinian solidarity movement. Unfortunately, given that the opposition seems to be really into smearing these days, that means that people say a lot of nasty things about me.
I'm curious, do false and defamatory statements in widely distributed printed material (campus newspapers) about me and my political views (that I am a racist, that I want to make Israel/Palestine "Judenrein", that I want to "exterminate" Israel) count as libel? Where is the line between fair comment and libel? Also, should I be looking into the legalities of this?
If it would make you look not as you are, and is not true, especially in print then yes it is libel and I would so very much look into the legalities of it. It strays from fair opinion if its not posed as an individuals opinion.
People have been sued for libel for a lot less. any false statements attributed to you that could harm you in any way (especially financially it seems) are libel.
check with a lawyer, i'd say. Good legal advice can be an activists friend. the key is to find a lawyer who understands where you're coming from.
People have been sued for libel for a lot less
Yeah, but I'm not CanWest Global ;)
Does anyone know if there have been similar cases in the past? I mean, I'm sure this sort of thing happens all the time to people who speak out.
Does your campus have a law faculty, genstrike? If so, they probably have a legal advice service for students, staffed by law student volunteers. They are not lawyers, and so can't advise on all matters, but they are definitely a good place to start.
If calling someone a racist is libel then the left should be aware, is there any other group that throws the term "racist" around more than the left???
Very positive and constructive comment, Mr. Smith. Thank you.
K.E. Smith, if you have nothing to add to the thread topic then stay out of it.
Naming racism isn't libel, if what's named is, you know, racist. If for some reason that really really bothers you, then please post your brilliant insights into race relations elsewhere.
K.E. Smith does have a point though. Labeling someone a racist whwther we believe said person is a racist can have consequences. Ultimately, a judge would decide if a libel has taken place.
Is there an "ignore Maysie" button out there today?
Sadly, someone being labelled a racist (There's stickers now? Why wasn't I informed?) has nothing to do with whether "we" (who the hell is "we"?) "believe" them. Words and actions tell "us" what we need to know.
And genstrike's question is a far cry from the knee-jerk right wing context of K.E.'s lovely contribution.
Enough. Of. The. Drift.
genstrike, I really hope the thread can get back on track.
Debating is not "ignoring."
I think genstrike's issue is important and he should seek legal advice. And, although it may not have been phrased in the best way K.E. Smith's posting does provide a caution to the Left. The courts in Canada have not proven to be friends of the Left. I fear a member of the left using the epithet "racist" is more likely than a member of the "right" to be found guilty of libel. It is good to stop and remember once and awhile that the courts are not our friends.
ooh, nice one Genstrike. If it's campus newspapers then you have room to play a little, don't you? It sounds like you've drawn a few idiots out of the woodwork, and they have presented you with a peerless opportunity to shine. Don't sweat the legal stuff, roll up your sleeves and get to work, speaking truth to, er, ignorance! Press on, press on, rebutt the smears. You have Reason on your side which is even better magic than God these days. Patiently and consistently use their own ignorance against them. If that includes threatening with legal action, go for it.
@Maysie:
In regards to the question "Is there an 'ignore Maysie' button out there today?": I know the word moderator appears under your screen name, to the left of the comment field, but it is not always clear if the comments you are making are those of Maysie the participant, or Maysie the moderator - given that another moderator (Catchfire) had just posted what I must assume was a sarcastic one-liner (again with no indication if he was posting as a participant or in a more "official" capacity) I don't think it completely improbable that you were interpreted as having made your comments as a participant. I don't want to be overly critical or drift off off totally into something that is better suited to a reactions thread, but a bit of formal notice as to which hat you were wearing would have cleared things up.
@genstrike
No particular expertise here, but some experience with the press (strangely enough, the student press - where everyone has [at least in the past] been given the nickel tour of libel law) - given the current climate, the generalized "anti-semitic" smear would probably be dismissed as, at worst, hyperbole... as a baseless accusation it is tossed around frequently enough that it is probably not actionable. Specific allegations, such as that you have called for Israel/Palestine to be "Judenrein" or calling for the extermination of Israel would in all likelihood be actionable. If the reference to you was a quote, the burden would be on the person who made the statement to document that you had actually made such a call. The paper would have a lesser responsibility a) prove that the quote was accurate (that the accuser has used those words) and b) to have confirmed that the allegation was accurate, at minimum presented you a chance to respond to it. I am not certain which campus publication you are referring to, you should have the ability to demand a retraction and apology from the publisher for not checking out and/or repeating the allegation.
In Canadian law, one does not libel or slander a group. An excellent example of this was the Toronto police union's failed attempt to sue the Toronto Star. So, if someone says This Group is racist, then, no, they can't be sued for libel or slander. However, if someone says, this person is racist, then a law suit is a possibility. The defense is fair comment. For example, if I say Ernst Zundel is racist, Naxi, scum, then his conviction as a racist, Nazi, scum would make my comment fair. And, of course, there is how a comment is phrased. For example, possible slander: "Brian Mulroney is a crook." Not necessarily slander: "In my own personal opinion, Brian Mulroney is a crook."
Now the law might look at the last statement differently if the speaker was an Osgoode law professor speaking in public to persons who do or may potentially do business with Brian Mulroney where it wouldn't amount to a hill of beans if stated by anyone of us over coffee at the JetFuel.
Well, I think it has been more or less sorted out... the campus paper printed a rather long response and is reviewing their comment policy to prevent this type of thing from happening in the future.
But it is a little wierd. I don't know, maybe I'm a little naive, but I would think that with the commentary on this issue, a lot of people are cruising for a libel lawsuit (assuming people have the time and money to fight it), no?
Ah, there's the rub. Who has the time and money?
Hint, hint.
So... you won. Congrats!
K.E. Smith, if you have nothing to add to the thread topic then stay out of it.
Naming racism isn't libel, if what's named is, you know, racist. If for some reason that really really bothers you, then please post your brilliant insights into race relations elsewhere.
What does my post have to do with race relations Incredible as it may seem to you, just because you call someone a racist does not mean it is so. Said person may take offence and initiate legal action, there are some posts on another thread here that call a certain person a murderer, this person could take a dim view of these accusations and also make things difficult for people. Sorry nothing on here particularly bothers me.