why we love babble

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NDPP

I love how babble mods can kill off babblers and nobody says a word. Latest casualty appears to be Slumberjack. Way to go, solidarity forever.

6079_Smith_W

Source please.

NDPP

Perhaps not 'progressive' enough for babble - unlike you Smith..

6079_Smith_W

What is your source for this information, NDPP?

 

Unionist

This happened around April 11. After several exchanges over a period of about a week, SJ was asked by a mod not to post in the feminist forum. He then posted in that forum, saying he would continue until unable to do so. His ability to post was then removed.

6079_Smith_W

Thanks. Just found it and was coming back to ask NDPP if "You're not the boss of me" is really the cause he wants to go to bat for.

And not a word? I'd say there's been perennial yapping and hand-wringing over this one. It was frankly a relief when four of them decided to go in one day, and if SJ decided this was the hill he wanted to go on then I don't see any difference. He's a big boy.

 

swallow

Four of who? 

6079_Smith_W

There was a lightning round of suspensions not too long ago.

The yapping and hand-wringing I am refering to...  the perennial allegations of heavy-handedness of the moderators in suspending or banning people after they have been warned about behaviour, and the whole myth (see above) that it is some force of oppression that we should be going to the barricades over.

Do I think it is a shame that posters get banned? Sure, but not enough to agree to be held hostage to their grandstanding. In this case there was a direct request to get banned. Someone wants to be a martyr? Fine.

 

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

It's surely hard managing a board that explicitly identifies as "an online community for folks who just won't shut up."

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Do I think it is a shame that posters get banned? Sure, but not enough to agree to be held hostage to their grandstanding. In this case there was a direct request to get banned. Someone wants to be a martyr? Fine.

I felt the same way about TT. Careful what you ask for you just might get it. I have reconciled myself to the fact that the moderators are always right when they speak as moderators. That is the nature of their role on this site.

Unionist

kropotkin1951 wrote:

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Do I think it is a shame that posters get banned? Sure, but not enough to agree to be held hostage to their grandstanding. In this case there was a direct request to get banned. Someone wants to be a martyr? Fine.

I felt the same way about TT. Careful what you ask for you just might get it. 

Very very different situation. TT was never banned, nor even warned by the mods so far as I recall. In fact, the mod's expressed opinion was that TT was bullied into leaving. He left voluntarily (regardless of what we may think about how he did it).

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Sorry I was comparing his leaving to the person banned for asking for it. TT asked people he had insulted and goaded whether he should stay or go. Like Slumberjack he asked for his fate to be determined by someone else. Of course unlike Slumberjack he is free to come back anytime he chooses. It is his prerogative.

Unionist

Got it, krop.

And I wish Slumberjack would compromise, agree to abide by the rules (even, especially, those he disagrees with), and ask to be re-admitted. I have never agreed with banning, except for obvious trolls and in otherwise impossible situations.

6079_Smith_W

Sure, their word is the last when it comes right down to it. I have had disagreements with them too, but when you conside te degree to which some abuse the work they do, and this place, I can see why that is unfortunately a hard rule. Who is it that pushes the point?

6079_Smith_W

And SJ is also free to come back if he honestly wants to. Let's not kid ourselves, and let's also not pretend this grand "death by mod" flounce isn't his decision. So it is going to be awhile, if ever.

Sure all these voices are important, but how far can mods cut people slack when they are asking for it?

lagatta

Misogyny, like racism, is not kosher on this board. I didn't want SJ banned either, but he was saying more and more hateful antifeminist stuff. He has interesting things to say, and I'm sure he can return if he agrees to refrain from the macho laddish outbursts.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

lagatta wrote:

Misogyny, like racism, is not kosher on this board. I didn't want SJ banned either, but he was saying more and more hateful antifeminist stuff. He has interesting things to say, and I'm sure he can return if he agrees to refrain from the macho laddish outbursts.

I agree. He was around this board long enough to know that the moderators defend the feminist forum with a passion. Given the dearth of places for feminist voices on the internet that is a very good thing.

6079_Smith_W

True, and it is important to say so. But it isn't just about one forum, one issue, nor even one poster. We have been down this road a tiring number of times, and it is a drag that so much of the blame gets tossed at the mods for things that, when we actually look at it, are the right choice. 

Unionist

What is all this exaggeration about? One person blamed the mods here. Virtually everyone agrees they have a thankless tough job to do and that they do it well. You asked about the banning of SJ, now you know. There is no need or demand to discuss it further. Let's move on.

 

6079_Smith_W

(Oookay, I think you actually aren't using the sarcarm font there).

Of course, no one here has ever accused the mods of being out to get them or playing favourites. No one has ever made a personal attack against them or accused them of being autocratic, and no one has ever second guessed their judgment over a difficult call. No one else has dared the mods to ban them. And no one has ever described this place as an autocracy that is quashing our free expression and needs to be resisted. 

I'm sure our good friend's cry of solidarity was really just an honest kumbaya. And you know, if I am mistaken and the general consensus is that this was a difficult but necessary act and we do move on, then no one will be happier than me. I'll be surprised too, because I have seen it go the other way far too many times. 

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Sealed

MegB

I hate like hell banning people. It feels really bad, regadless of how egregious and ongoing the so-called policy violations are. I like to extend second and third chances becuse so often they are deserved. Trolls, real trolls, don't get a lot of rope but regular babblers are allowed fairly wide leeway.

That said, Slumberjack basically asked for it. He can agree to stay out of the feminist forum any time and be welcomed back, but that doesn't seem to be happening. Terrytowel was totally different. Even though it was his choice to leave he was bullied off the board. For the record, I asked him to stay.

oldgoat

Of the six regular mods this place has had, including me, plus a few rabble staff who lent a hand now and then, I'm pretty sure every one of us would have done exactly the same thing under the circumstances, and none of us would have felt good about it. We get paid to do a particular job, and unfortunately sometimes this is part of it even if we don't like it.

 

oldgoat

Anyway, one of the reasons I love babble is that it's fun developing new metrics to measure/quantify where threads are at when they start in comparison to where they are as they approach their demise.  

 

Pondering

I love babble because you are always here :)

I got referred another baby/Mom that need free help so I will be here alot less for at least 3 months if not longer. Truth be told I love babies so much I feel like they are doing me a favor! Other times I just give myself a time-out if I feel I am getting too upset in some discussion.

Slumberjack was one of the people that discouraged me from posting in the feminist forum for the past year or two. It became too demoralizing.

I would rather people get long time outs than get banned but deliberately defying the mods cannot be permitted. It would undermine their authority and mayhem would ensue.

swallow

MegB wrote:

I hate like hell banning people. It feels really bad, regadless of how egregious and ongoing the so-called policy violations are. I like to extend second and third chances becuse so often they are deserved. Trolls, real trolls, don't get a lot of rope but regular babblers are allowed fairly wide leeway.

That said, Slumberjack basically asked for it. He can agree to stay out of the feminist forum any time and be welcomed back, but that doesn't seem to be happening. Terrytowel was totally different. Even though it was his choice to leave he was bullied off the board. For the record, I asked him to stay.

Thanks for sharing that Meg. Always interesting to know what happens behind the curtains! Would not wish your job on anyone. 

Misfit

Anybody see Takeitslowly lately?

oldgoat

I remember babbles very first banning.  Different sort of community then, really a close family.  There was a huge amount of angst and hand wringing about it.  I also remember the first flounce.  My God what a classic.  He set the gold standard for flounces pretty much forever.

 

 

Of course I also remember when the House of Plantagenet was a bit of a big deal.

oldgoat

Now if I could only start remembering my pants...........

lagatta

I'm not sure that image is particularly uplifting...

Pondering, up here there is a community group called "La Maison des Grands-Parents" that does that kind of work. La Maisonnette des Parents also helps families with problems, in a somewhat different ways.

While I fully understand the need to ensure that babies have a good start in life and that parents who are stymied need support, I'm afraid I'd rather foster kittens than the human kind of baby...

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

Misfit wrote:
Anybody see Takeitslowly lately?

 

I'm not here often but I hope Takeitslowly is doing well.

Misfit

Me too

MegB

swallow wrote:

MegB wrote:

I hate like hell banning people. It feels really bad, regadless of how egregious and ongoing the so-called policy violations are. I like to extend second and third chances becuse so often they are deserved. Trolls, real trolls, don't get a lot of rope but regular babblers are allowed fairly wide leeway.

That said, Slumberjack basically asked for it. He can agree to stay out of the feminist forum any time and be welcomed back, but that doesn't seem to be happening. Terrytowel was totally different. Even though it was his choice to leave he was bullied off the board. For the record, I asked him to stay.

Thanks for sharing that Meg. Always interesting to know what happens behind the curtains! Would not wish your job on anyone. 

You're welcome. It really can be a tough job, but I've met so many wonderful people both before and after I became a mod. I wouldn't ever want to give that up, the exposure to great people with big ideas.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

When there was a larger babble community discussions seemed to me to be much more self-moderated. If you didn't have anything constructive to say, then you got a digital slap upside the head. The number of intelligent lurkers was astonishing. At least that's the way it seemed to me. It reminded me a little of attending a political meeting for the first time - back in the antediluvian past for me now - where if you were paying attention then you were careful to just say your piece and mostly listen. I must confess that I learned a lot.

The other thing of note from those days was that we had visitors who, very obviously, viewed babble banning as a badge of honour. They were nauseously predictable and plentiful as weeds.

A smaller community just doesn't have that critical mass. We should, therefore, all be a little nicer to each other. So the mod arguments seem well thought out to me. Last resort and all that.

Besides, being such a polemical jerk, I can get away with murder. Bwa ha ha ha. Just kidding. A little. I suppose I could ...

quizzical

i now love babble because it gave me the opportunity to meet a former long time babbler and family in person this weekend, all the way from TO.

dinner was like the best dinner ever.

conversation was like slow rain in the desert turning it lush and setting was in the heart of the Rockies on the side of the Fraser River. literally flowing 15ft away.

stellar views, great food and even better companionship.

Unionist

quizzical wrote:

i now love babble because it gave me the opportunity to meet a former long time babbler and family in person this weekend, all the way from TO.

dinner was like the best dinner ever.

conversation was like slow rain in the desert turning it lush and setting was in the heart of the Rockies on the side of the Fraser River. literally flowing 15ft away.

stellar views, great food and even better companionship.

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