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HPV Vaccine should be free for everyone

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jas
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Joined: Jun 6 2005

Yes, let's definitely spend more time worrying about an STD that mostly goes away on its own and whose link to cancer is highly tenuous.

In fact, let's not just worry about it, let's hijack entire health budgets in our collective hysteria about it, and demonize those who don't live, like we do, in constant terror over micro-organisms.

And let's spend lots of time talking about very specific health issues that just coincidentally benefit the pharmaceutical industry, while utterly ignoring vast, ongoing, industrial, water and food sovereignty threats to community health. We could even try to frame vaccination agendas as issues of racism, economic equality, or discrimination. That would make us look, like, really progressive.


Mr. Magoo
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jas
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Joined: Jun 6 2005

From the posts of some I can glean that they care about the larger issues, care about public health in its broadest sense: that is, the importance of clean air, water, access to appropriate nutrition, food sovereignty, and maybe even health sovereignty.

But from a typical pro-vaxxer/medicalization crowd, you only ever see concern for medicalized solutions. You only ever see discussion of issues that involve a corporate profit agenda ("coincidentally", to them). This is why so many of these arguments ring false. They're not grounded in the real world where real health solutions don't require massive expenditures on patented solutions or high tech equipment or bloated hospital administrations. Real health, based on verifiable results, comes from a basic provision of the natural means of communities to a healthy life. Things which are increasingly denied to us by the very "solution" providers who profit from it.

Ironically, you get arguments from this same camp about alt health being all about swindling people and somehow generating massive profits, while they ignore the obscene profit agenda in the industry they claim has the final word on these matters.

Real public health issues are about communities and access to clean air, water, appropriate livelihood, appropriate nutrition and appropriate (for that community) health care. Not about exporting profit-generating, medicalized technologies to captive markets.


Mr. Magoo
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Quote:
But from a typical pro-vaxxer/medicalization crowd, you only ever see concern for medicalized solutions.

When the discussion basically boils down to vaccination or non-vaccination.  How is that surprising?

Quote:
They're not grounded in the real world where real health solutions don't require massive expenditures on patented solutions or high tech equipment or bloated hospital administrations. Real health, based on verifiable results, comes from a basic provision of the natural means of communities to a healthy life.

I don't think any of that ever prevented polio.


Timebandit
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Joined: Sep 25 2001
That's what the government/the Illuminati/Big Pharma/the Reptilians *want* you to think!

jas
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Joined: Jun 6 2005

Timebandit wrote:
That's what the government/the Illuminati/Big Pharma/the Reptilians *want* you to think!

Just an example of how the pro-pharma crowd is incapable of progressive self-analysis.


BRF
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Joined: Feb 6 2015

Brachina wrote:

 Its disgusting that the HPV vaccine isn't free for everyone in Ontario. Boys are discriminated against as are older people, it only free for young girls, boys need not apply, even though it causes all kinds of different cancers in men, throat cancer, penile Cancer and in the case of gay men anal cancer (which also makes this homophobic).

 Free HPV vaccines for everyone! People are dying for fuck sakes!

Ah I'll pass , you can take my place in the big pharma lineup.


Timebandit
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Joined: Sep 25 2001
jas wrote:

Timebandit wrote:
That's what the government/the Illuminati/Big Pharma/the Reptilians *want* you to think!

Just an example of how the pro-pharma crowd is incapable of progressive self-analysis.

We are perfectly capable of self-analysis, but it gains no ground in the discussion. I'll make no claims as to your abilities but I will note your ongoing refusal to engage with facts contrary to your feels. This is why I make fun of you. Any attempt at actual debate is pointless, bordering on the absurd.

jas
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Joined: Jun 6 2005

Timebandit wrote:
  We are perfectly capable of self-analysis, but it gains no ground in the discussion.

It's actually fundamental to this discussion. On a progressive board, anyway.

It's not that you can't express your preference for one solution or another, as jerrym has kindly done, but to vilify or ridicule a critical perspective of the profit motive in the pharmaceutical industry and the unnecessary medicalization of a host of health care issues is not a progressive position, imo.


Timebandit
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Joined: Sep 25 2001
Yes, and over innumerable threads we've debated in good faith. There comes a point where your insistence on being completely full of shit leaves no other response.

bagkitty
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Joined: Aug 27 2008

Every time I read something by the vaccine skeptics I recall sitting in about 3 inches of lukewarm water, my back and chest coated with calomine lotion and totally miserable - usually the rash that accompanies rubella is only moderate, I wasn't so lucky. I remember the measles much more clearly, I got the bonus ear infection, it became so severe that pressure built up and the tissue of my tympanic membrame (eardrum) tore... some hearing loss, but at least when the eardrum ruptures or tears the incredible pain that occurs leading up to the actual rupture or tear stops. I didn't get mumps. I did get chickenpox in elementary school, and as a bonus, I managed to suprise the family physician when I had a severe shingles outbreak when I was in high school - he was surprised to see it in someone my age, but was able to diagnose it quickly because it manifested as a "classic" case - I never did see the rash on the left side of my back, but I could see it on both sides of my chest and especially after the pus had dried out, it looked remarkably like a shingled roof... unfortunately when I went in on the Friday he only prescribed an ointment which was supposed to reduce the chance of scarring... it was only 72 painful hours later when he had office hours again that I got the prescription for pain killers that he had overlooked on the Friday.

The MMR vaccine was only became available in the early 70s, too late for me to have benefitted from it... but I swear that if I was ever directly involved in health decisions for a child, I would insure they were vaccinated to save them from the misery of having to endure the symptoms that accompany these diseases - doubly so to avoid the potential complications. In response to the vaccine skeptics who think it is all a plot by "big pharma" to increase profits... well I wish on them the experience of a perforated eardrum... and a shingles rash without benefit of pain killers.

ETA: just wanted to mention that I would only wish the pain and discomfort on the parents who refuse to have their kids vaccinated... while I am not the biggest fan in the world of children in general (picture a middle age guy in a cardigan shouting at those damn kids to "get out of that jello tree") I wouldn't actually want to see pain inflicted on them. Wink


Mr. Magoo
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Joined: Dec 13 2002


bagkitty
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Joined: Aug 27 2008

This one is just for you, Magoo:

"He wants to know if you ever watch Mr. Magoo"

 


jas
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Joined: Jun 6 2005

ETA: never mind.

Am enjoying the good vibes too much right now to get pissy.


jas
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Joined: Jun 6 2005

Here's a great example of how public health policy is influenced by pharmaceutical profit agendas.

B.C. Liberals a favourite of big pharma

Drug companies, pharmacies gave almost $600,000 to governing party between 2005 and 2012 — and lobbied Victoria extensively

... The Sun analyzed political donations between 2005 and 2012 and, while the tally may not be exhaustive, found drug companies, pharmaceutical organizations and pharmacies donated $582,549 to the Liberals and $41,850 to the NDP.

These include:

• Johnson & Johnson — $49,121 to the Liberals, $0 to the NDP;

• Pfizer Canada — $39,427 to the Liberals, $645 to the NDP;

• GlaxoSmithKline — $32,412 to the Liberals, $0 to the NDP;

• Canada’s Research-Based Pharmaceutical Companies (Rx&D) — $26,000 to the Liberals, $450 to the NDP;

• Merck Canada — $24,716 to the Liberals, $0 to the NDP;

• Amgen Canada Inc — $23,275 to the Liberals, $0 to the NDP.

And many of those big Liberal donors — including Pfizer and Merck — are among the most active lobbyists who meet with politicians to speak about policy decisions.

What influence these multinational drug companies may or may not have had over past provincial governments has been raised during the election campaign.

Pro-vaxxers here could be following this thread, about the BC Liberals attempting to shut down an agency that was analyzing public health expenditures on pharmaceuticals: BC Liberals Forced to Reinstate Wrongly Fired Therapeutics Initiative Employees

 


jas
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Joined: Jun 6 2005

An earlier Babble thread on the subject:

Epidemiologist suggests caution for HPV vaccine program

 

A more recent article from this same researcher:

Evidence and the Marketing of the HPV Vaccine

To start, many of the studies supporting the safety and effectiveness of the HPV vaccine are compromised by conflict of interest. Nearly all of the research cited by the American College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists in its 2014 opinion paper endorsing the use of the vaccine was partially or completely funded by Merck (the makers of one HPV vaccine, Gardasil) or by GlaxoSmithKline (the makers of a similar HPV vaccine, Cervarix). While such conflicts of interest are common practice in pharmaceutical research, they are not to be taken lightly, as industry-funded studies are widely reported to produce results favourable to their sponsors. In some cases, the research was actually designed by and/or reported in publications written by employees of the vaccine manufacturers. Moreover, these studies, and particularly the randomized control trials, have focused on short-term (mostly immunologic) effects of the vaccine. This makes them insufficient for determining the long-term risks and effectiveness of inoculation.

 


jerrym
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Joined: May 30 2009

In October 2016, the Canadian Cancer Society warned that the rate of mouth and throat cancer in males is growing quickly and may even surpass that of cervical cander in females, putting more pressure on provincial helath ministries to vaccinate boys against HPV, and not simply girls as is done currently. 

 

Quote:

The Canadian Cancer Society is warning the Newfoundland and Labrador government that it's no longer enough to vaccinate only girls for the human papillomavirus (HPV).

New statistics suggest boys need the vaccine too.

A report released by the Canadian Cancer Society says the number of Canadian men with HPV-related mouth and throat cancer is rising, and could surpass the rate of cervical cancer caused by HPV.

The study says between 1992 and 2012, the number of men with HPV mouth and throat cancer rose by 56 per cent.

Threat to men and women

Matthew Piercey, CEO of the Newfoundland and Labrador chapter of the Canadian Cancer Society, said HPV was once seen as a threat only to women, but the society now knows the virus causes up to 35 per cent of mouth and throat cancers in both sexes.

"We need to work hand in hand with government," said Piercey.

"You can go to your family doctor ... to get the male child vaccinated, which we urge people to do, but it really needs to be within the school system as well."

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/b-c-to-provide-hpv-vaccination-t...

 

 


jerrym
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Joined: May 30 2009

ETA: Yesterday the BC government annoounced it will be giving free HPV vaccinations to grade 6 boys as well as grade 6 girls starting in September of the 2017-2918 school year. The vaccine is already offered to boys, as well as girls, in Alberta, PEI, Nova Scotia in 2015 and Ontario 2016. 

A BC Liberal policy that heps society is an improvement, even if this is a BC election year and even if it is a response to two Grade 6 brothers who filed a human rightrs complaint because boys were being discriminated against by not getting free vaccinations like girls. However they need a catchup program to deal with the boys who previously failed to get the vaccine when they were in Grade 6. 

Quote:

B.C. will begin providing the human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccination to Grade 6 boys beginning in September 2017.

The vaccine will be provided as part of the regular school-based, publicly funded immunization clinics. Two doses will be given at least six months apart, as it is to Grade 6 girls.

Health Minister Terry Lake announced the extension of the program, saying the move is to improve protection against a range of HPV-caused cancers that affect both men and women.

"We've targeted the program to Grade 6 girls and now Grade 6 boys to better promote the broad coverage needed for effective herd immunity," he said in a statement.

"The HPV vaccine is most effective when administered before a child is first exposed to the virus and will help protect them from HPV-related cancers and other serious health problems." 

The school immunization program will use the Gardasil 9 vaccine, which provides protection against nine types of HPV. 

Not a woman-only concern

HPV is one of the most common sexually transmitted infections, with three out of four sexually active people contracting the virus at some point in their lives.

Often HPV infections will clear on their own and most don't show any symptoms but can pass the virus on to others unknowingly.

In other cases, cells infected with the virus can become cancerous over time or cause genital warts.

Perry Kendall, B.C.'s provincial health officer, said that even though the most common cancer caused by HPV is cervical, the virus should be a concern for both men and woman.

"Your son can pick up HPV from a woman who isn't vaccinated and pass it on to another woman. While most people will clear HPV, some will go on to develop throat cancer, rectal cancers, as well as genital warts, which are quite unpleasant," he said.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-extends-free-hpv-vacc...

 


jerrym
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Joined: May 30 2009

Below is an aritcle about the happy reaction of the two boys who filed the human rightrs complaint that they were being discriminated against by not being provided with the vaccine like girls. My own son and many of his male friends felt the same way when the same way when they did not get the vaccine in Grade 6. In fact, he was the one who raised the issue with me, as I wasn't even aware of the situation at the time. 

See post #6 for the boys' letter to the local New Westminster newspaper that started their campaign to have boys as well as girls vaccinated. 

 

Quote:

010617-0107_hpv_boys_writethru.jpg-0107_hpv-W.jpg

This is a photo of Nelson and Elliot Roy (Elliot, with one 'T', is in striped shirt on the left), who had filed a human rights complaint after boys were excluded from getting the human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccination for free under the province's publicly-funded immunization program. However, the government announced Friday that boys will be able to get the vaccination for free in September, and the two boys are very happy with the government announcement. [PNG Merlin Archive] / VANCOUVER SUNof the vaccine Gardasil.HARRY CABLUCK / VANCOUVER SUNBritish Columbia Health Minister Terry Lake pauses while speaking about the overdose crisis of deaths involving fentanyl-laced drugs, in Vancouver, B.C., on Wednesday September 21, 2016.DARRYL DYCK / VANCOUVER SUN

Nelson and Elliot Roy are ecstatic that British Columbia will soon provide the human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccination to Grade 6 boys as part of the province’s publicly-funded immunization program.

“I think it’s great,” said Elliot, 13, who with his twin brother Nelson filed a B.C. Human Rights Tribunal complaint because the vaccination was only available for free to Grade 6 girls. “We’ve been fighting for it since Grade 6 and to finally see it come to realization is fantastic.”

Brother Nelson agreed. “It’s everything I hoped for because we wanted all boys to get this vaccine and I’m glad the right decision was made without having to go to a hearing.”

HPV is one of the most common sexually transmitted infections, with three out of four sexually active people getting HPV at some point in their lives.

The Gardasil 9 vaccine — which is used in B.C.’s HPV program — protects against nine types of HPV, including two types that cause most cases of genital warts.

http://www.theprovince.com/provide+vaccination+boys+part+immunization+pr...

 

 


jerrym
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Joined: May 30 2009

dp


Timebandit
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Joined: Sep 25 2001
Great to see progress being made!

Sineed
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Joined: Dec 4 2005

This is great news! What with the soon to be Drumpf presidency, we're going to see a war on science such as Harper only dreamed of. The Donald is a vaccine skeptic who has tweeted his belief that vaccines cause autism, and stated how he demanded an "alternate" vaccine schedule for his youngest, Baron.

My girls are now 18 and 21. When they got their HVP shots, it was only available for girls. Now Ontario funds it for all children.


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