I am Canadian.
Dont' ask me why. I just feel like posting something like this.
I am Canadian. I was born in the hospital that now honours Dr. Gerstein. He delivered me. My mum had only one kidney. Somehow, I lived. The City of T------ asked my dad only one question when the hired him. "Why do you live in a Jewish neighbourhood?"
"The rent is cheap," said my dad. They hired him.
I am Canadian. I grew up in a village named after the leaf on the flag. I love the fall. I can never be too close to the ocean.
I am Canadian. In my boyhood, I played hockey on frozen streets and dreamed of being Dave Keon and making slapshots like Big Frank. Once or twice I saw my heroes play in the Gardens. And, as a boy, now long forgotten, I once saw a junior named Orr play for the Generals. My dad says I was there but I cannot remember. Dad says he scored a goal skating backwards all the way from the blueline. I believe my dad.
I am Canadian. Winnipeg was my home for decades. I know the North End like I know the #17 McGregor bus.I know all the rooms in the Labour Temple. All of them! When I lived on Furby street, my neighbour once joked that even the bikers were afraid of this neighbourhood. They would walk down the middle of the street. But I have known bikers since I knew the 101 Knights and dreamed on being one of them.
I am Canadian. I once mailed a mouse to the Health Deparment because they did nothing about the infestation. They did not get the joke.
I am Canadian. Who are you?
Comments
VGE you would come off better if you didn't start your posts with a straw man. You give a tentative definition of progressive and then attack your construct. It would be easier to respond if I didn't think you had tried to define most of the people on this board negatively instead of discussing the issue in a nonjudgmental manner.
One of the reasons many of us are negative about our country is because it is going backwards. We are going back to being an empires biggest cheerleader and the first colony to answer the imperial call. i was proud that in the 50's 60's and 70's Canada was a middle power that tried to have a real impact on the international stage.
In the tradition of Ginger Goodwin and J.S. Woodsworth I will speak out against imperialism and consider it a patriotic act.
P4 the US voters only elect leaders who are willing and able to bomb the shit out of the latest enemies that will not give up control of their resources. What was the word for that?
Imperialism
Who warned you, and by this I do not ean individual names, I mean a babbler or rabble staff?
As I do not believe for 1 minute it was staff, nor even for that matter a regular community babbler.
remind this will be my last post on this topic. Not that I'm pouting but I think I'm causing a bit of a thread drift.[And I wanted to run away still feeling clever for my smart alec comment against Al Q lol].
I feel your pain.
thanks...yes there is definitely problems in Canada, we can all name them but in general when I look at other countries in the world I am pretty happy where I am. I am aware of the negative and will fight areas that I believe are wrong, but in the most part I think the positive out weighs the negative, so it is with proud and patriotic enthusiasm I say I am Canadian, more Canadians should get on board
Get on what board? How about you get outta my face and mind your own business?
If you want to attend your version of Nuremberg rallies, that's your affair, but don't knock others for finding overt displays of jingoism distasteful.
I agree with him. Lots of people are quick to say FUCK CANADA! but have no problem taking advantage of the benefits of being Canadian.
I hate the cliche "if you don't love it, leave" but to me anyways it does have [somewhat of a] a ring of truth to it. If you really can't stand Canada either leave OR do something about it. Try to change it. Don't just blog about it.
Do try to be less binary in your thinking. Are our options limited to either waving red-and-white pom poms or excoriating Canada?
By not not jumping up and down like a baboon, howling CA-NA-DA and shaking my scarlet, maple-scented buttocks at foreign passers-by, am I somehow expressing criticism of Canada?
Perhaps not. But it IS a glorious image of defiance. "Maple scented"?
Al Qa'bong's shit doesn't stink (= [Sorry couldn't help it]
Sorry, I'm the one NOT cheerleading.
...petards...hoisting...
not really a baboon as I see it, the article was based on the positive things about Canada and it really didn't touch on the serious topics, which we are all aware of and I will do my best to give my opinion or participate where I believe there needs to be change. We can be progressive and move forward for change but we can do it with the positive things in sight because we don't want to lose what is good in our mission to change and to lose focus that in comparison to many countries we do have a pretty sweet deal most times...
Get on what board? How about you get outta my face and mind your own business?
If you want to attend your version of Nuremberg rallies, that's your affair, but don't knock others for finding overt displays of jingoism distasteful.
mind my own business..you responded to my comment with outrage, so I responded back. Also I am so the last person you would see at a Nuremberg Rally and honestly I am not sure how me liking Canada would give you the interpretation that I want to attend Nazi rallies a little off topic and pretty assuming I must say.
Boy this thread got a bit nuts in a few spots eh? kinda sums up our country, I personally love my country warts and all, I've got a maple leaf tattooed om my chest but my shirts on most days of the year, I didn't get it because it was trendy or we did well in the olympics, I got it when I was 18 yrs old in the mid 80's because I felt like no other place on earth could give me what I had, I still get furious at other Canadians for royaly screwing things up here and there, but we eventually and thankfully get rid of them and hopefully get them to move to Arizona or some other desert, my inspiration always came from the Terry Fox, Jean Beliveau, Rick Hansen and Joe Sakic types, there are so many more, they love where they are from but are certainly not ramming it down peoples throats, they are to me the best type of person to look up to, there is lots of room for the other extreme we can see that with the Don Cherry types and that's OK too, WE ARE CANADIAN!
Boy this thread got a bit nuts in a few spots eh? kinda sums up our country, I personally love my country warts and all, I've got a maple leaf tattooed om my chest but my shirts on most days of the year, I didn't get it because it was trendy or we did well in the olympics, I got it when I was 18 yrs old in the mid 80's because I felt like no other place on earth could give me what I had, I still get furious at other Canadians for royaly screwing things up here and there, but we eventually and thankfully get rid of them and hopefully get them to move to Arizona or some other desert, my inspiration always came from the Terry Fox, Jean Beliveau, Rick Hansen and Joe Sakic types, there are so many more, they love where they are from but are certainly not ramming it down peoples throats, they are to me the best type of person to look up to, there is lots of room for the other extreme we can see that with the Don Cherry types and that's OK too, WE ARE CANADIAN!
yes I am new to this site and def it did get crazy in some areas to my surprise (didn't know being proud to be Canadian was such a heated debate..hhhhmmm). You summed it up really well..thumbs up.
al Q there was no reason for you to go after Wildflower, a new babbler, with such vehemence. Back off. On this kind of topic there will always be disagreement.
Hey Ranger, not sure what you mean by the thread getting a bit "nuts" (try to avoid this kind of wording, eh?). As I said upthread, people can engage in this topic in many ways, and we will clearly not agree with each other. That needs to be okay without resorting to name calling or aggressive posturing.
al Q there was no reason for you to go after Wildflower, a new babbler, with such vehemence. Back off. On this kind of topic there will always be disagreement.
Hey Ranger, not sure what you mean by the thread getting a bit "nuts" (try to avoid this kind of wording, eh?). As I said upthread, people can engage in this topic in many ways, and we will clearly not agree with each other. That needs to be okay without resorting to name calling or aggressive posturing.
thanks Maysie 
, I agree we all have different opinions on many topics..am good with that..like to read others point of views find it interesting
al Q there was no reason for you to go after Wildflower, a new babbler, with such vehemence. Back off. On this kind of topic there will always be disagreement.
Hey Ranger, not sure what you mean by the thread getting a bit "nuts" (try to avoid this kind of wording, eh?). As I said upthread, people can engage in this topic in many ways, and we will clearly not agree with each other. That needs to be okay without resorting to name calling or aggressive posturing.
I'm very very sorry if I offended in any way, believe me "I come in peace" 
al Q there was no reason for you to go after Wildflower, a new babbler, with such vehemence. Back off. On this kind of topic there will always be disagreement.
Oh please. When we're told to "get on board" with blind displays of patriotism it ought to be fair to give examples, extreme as they might be, of toward what sort of foolishness such patriotism may lead.
Besides that, I'm not directing my comments to any one person in particular, but to an attitude that's being expressed.
blind displays of patriotism
Some have pointed out humbleness is one quality we might be proud of, but I'm not sure we've been any clearer about why this is so than those who are claiming freedom is a quality to be proud of.
So. Let me spell out the reason for my vote. I vote for humbleness as I feel much of the benefits, freedoms and oppurtunities I 'enjoy' through the sheer chance(I don't know about you but I haven't done much for what I've been given) of having been born within these seemiinly arbitrarily defined borders is often inextricably linked to opression and deprivation elsewhere(that is elsewhere both in and outside these seemingly arbitrarily defined borders). Similarly I wouldn't expect a feudal lord to be proud of the freedoms and benefits they have inherited at the expense of the lives of others. I believe in equality and co-operation and dislike domination and hierarchy. I vote for humbleness because though I often want and do try to devote myself to changing things for the better and finding ways of removing myself from actvities and practices I fundementally disagree with I often find myself tired, forlorn, beaten, submiting to a path of less resistance and ostracized by other people within these seemingly arbitrarily defined borders. I am canadian.
ach... don't worry about Al'q apparently thinks only he has brains, as after all the rest of us are just willing slaves to blind patriotism.
and on that note al'q; yes ya did direct, even threw a quote back....nice try though.
Hey Ranger, not sure what you mean by the thread getting a bit "nuts" (try to avoid this kind of wording, eh?). As I said upthread, people can engage in this topic in many ways, and we will clearly not agree with each other. That needs to be okay without resorting to name calling or aggressive posturing.
My goodness, I seem to have wandered into a finishing school of some kind. I thought this was a progressive board?
Hey Ranger, not sure what you mean by the thread getting a bit "nuts" (try to avoid this kind of wording, eh?). As I said upthread, people can engage in this topic in many ways, and we will clearly not agree with each other. That needs to be okay without resorting to name calling or aggressive posturing.
My goodness, I seem to have wandered into a finishing school of some kind. I thought this was a progressive board?
Finishing schools don't "feel" things. When folks let things "hang out" here, you know you are looking at honest expressions of feelings. Who the frig wants the farce of finishing school? Or does emotiion inconvenience you?
My goodness, I seem to have wandered into a finishing school of some kind. I thought this was a progressive board?
Since you have been a member here all of a few hours why don't you tell us how a progressive board should act?
It's better here than Albania or Burkina Faso. Way. Leaders in those countries aren't as perplexed with how to achieve so little with so much natural wealth at their disposal.
It's better here than Albania or Burkina Faso. Way. Leaders in those countries aren't as perplexed with how to achieve so little with so much natural wealth at their disposal.
Can't say I am upset to what was mostly an exercise in nationalism come to an end.
Why should any of us be proud of "belonging" to a nation founded on imperialism, violence and stolen land? Using justifications for being proud based on the standard of living is acknowledgement that robbing and stealing resources within the territory and from other territories is justifiable as long as they are reasonably distributed within Canada. Even this notion of fair distribution is a pile of bullshit as capitalism "works "(or better yet, malfunctions) unevenly across space.
...nice try though.
They say that mimicry is the sincerest form of flattery.
Aw shucks.
Can't say I am upset to what was mostly an exercise in nationalism come to an end.
Why should any of us be proud of "belonging" to a nation founded on imperialism, violence and stolen land? Using justifications for being proud based on the standard of living is acknowledgement that robbing and stealing resources within the territory and from other territories is justifiable as long as they are reasonably distributed within Canada. Even this notion of fair distribution is a pile of bullshit as capitalism "works "(or better yet, malfunctions) unevenly across space.
The reality of maldistribution of life chances - in fact the impossibility of total equality of opportunity - is coming to be recognized as the old hope of capitalism's defeat pales. All are becoming invested in corporate health for their golden years. So ithe inequities are threatening to grow like Topsy. But I don't know what you offer for the individual reformer if it's not working at getting "Canada" right. A muted pride in the maintenance of a system of values that can openly and forthrightly say, without fear of contradiction, that "this notion of fair distribution is a pile of bullshit." And building on those values, perhaps we should "use" nationalist spirit to say that it is not "Canadian" to dismiss concerns for inequality. Make the libertarians uncomfortable in their belief that, like Maggie Thatcher said, "There is no such thing as society."
well I'm proud to have participated in this nutty thread, proud to find out that drum roll I posted in the smiley face above is from a canadian, if I had to go to finishing school I'd wish it'd be full of nuts like us. It's a strange world, thanks to all of you for making the canadian interwebs a bit of a more interesting place to reside.
Can't say I am upset to what was mostly an exercise in nationalism come to an end.
Why should any of us be proud of "belonging" to a nation founded on imperialism, violence and stolen land? Using justifications for being proud based on the standard of living is acknowledgement that robbing and stealing resources within the territory and from other territories is justifiable as long as they are reasonably distributed within Canada. Even this notion of fair distribution is a pile of bullshit as capitalism "works "(or better yet, malfunctions) unevenly across space.
The reality of maldistribution of life chances - in fact the impossibility of total equality of opportunity - is coming to be recognized as the old hope of capitalism's defeat pales. All are becoming invested in corporate health for their golden years. So ithe inequities are threatening to grow like Topsy. But I don't know what you offer for the individual reformer if it's not working at getting "Canada" right. A muted pride in the maintenance of a system of values that can openly and forthrightly say, without fear of contradiction, that "this notion of fair distribution is a pile of bullshit." And building on those values, perhaps we should "use" nationalist spirit to say that it is not "Canadian" to dismiss concerns for inequality. Make the libertarians uncomfortable in their belief that, like Maggie Thatcher said, "There is no such thing as society."
We can challenge capitalism by other means. I agree with the sentiment, but I disagree that we have to make the same mistake of reproducing the nation-state all over again. Part of the nation-state's logic is to secure other states that threaten sovereignty by using the military apparatus. Another is the practice of internal policing to ensure the correct order of people and things. I would prefer other possible worlds than one with Canada.
I agree with George Victor. The nation-state is currently the only corrective we (that's everyone on the planet, folks) have in the struggle against the barons of corporatism. Internationalism is a swell ideal, and something to strive for, but it has no divisions (figurative or otherwise) right now.
Then again, my weltanschauung has been formed by a life growing up under the Westphalian system, and hence I'm probably no more perceptive about this than is a fish of the water in which it swims.
All that aside, if one takes the steamengine of thought that runs from Rousseau through Kant to Hegel, one sees that the state is an expression of the will of either God or The People (or the two are the same). One state (or the manifestation of the will of one people) is no better than another state, nor is one people any better than another. There may be regimes that at any time may be qualitatively better or worse than another, but we're all peoples of the world, and none of us is better than another.
Since you have been a member here all of a few hours why don't you tell us how a progressive board should act?
I'm afraid to. The Moderator's watching.
Maybe being happy about being a Canadian isn't so much, "Rah-rah-rah!! We're #1 and we're better than you!!" as it is: "I'm really thankful that I'm a Canadian because there are billions of people in the world far less fortunate than us, so it's good to be a Canadian."
Personally I share the same view at George and Al Q. Canada IS going backwards, and I am not proud of that. Nor am I proud of the way the first people's are treated here. Now proud of our government, nor its policies.
It is by accident of birth we were born here.
Kroptokin1951 - seems as if we share some history. My father's side of the family were a part of the Acadian Expulsion. I think this is why I have such an interest in LA. I've met a lot of people from NOLA and the surrounding areas and we all share a common history.
Personally I share the same view at George and Al Q. Canada IS going backwards, and I am not proud of that. Nor am I proud of the way the first people's are trated here. Now proud of our government, nor its policies.
It is by accident of birth we were born here.
It may have been an accident, but I hardly think we're going 'backwards' more like sideways and southward to a more American style world view and system of social interaction. Not necessarily backwards, just the wrong course for this country. There isn't a lot to be proud of when it comes to viewing the Canadian state.
Maybe being happy about being a Canadian isn't so much, "Rah-rah-rah!! We're #1 and we're better than you!!" as it is: "I'm really thankful that I'm a Canadian because there are billions of people in the world far less fortunate than us, so it's good to be a Canadian."
Yeah, I don't think many Canadians are like that. I think the Olympics will be a soon-forgotten aberration of general expressive behaviour for this country. It was loud and silly and corny and phoney and a bunch of other stupid things and really, other than watching hockey and curling, the Olympics didn't make me feel more Canadian. It just made me aware of how many bad choices our government makes
But, eh, there isn't much of the world that I know through anything other than books and such. I love the ground that the world calls Canada because its the only home I've ever had. Fuck the government - love the land and the peoples. That's what ho-hum doldrum Canadian 'pride' is to me.
Thanks N. Beltov. I'm not much of a writer but I'll give it a go.
I am Canadian. I know we can do better.
I am Canadian. I sit here and wonder why I need my laptop and high-speed internet.
I am Canadian. My friends snickered about my 20" CRT TV's until I succumbed and bought the big high def thingy.
I am Canadian. Therefore, I don't drink that swill.
How long before we see an influx of Molson Golsens!
I am Canadian. Because of the birth of the nation-state, colonialism, migration from Europe to the Americas.
I am Canadian. Because other people keep trying to dupe me into believing that's what I am by asking me my nationality, giving me a birth certificate, sin card and passport with the word "Canada" on it, and making me sing a damn anthem at public events.
I am Canadian. Not because I call myself one, but because other people identify me as such because they cannot construct identities of themselves and others at different scales, nor can they acknowledge that the scale of the nation-state is a reality through social construction.
I am Canadian. Because membership to a sovereign power is a requirement for being included in humanity, right? Otherwise we be excluded from humanity.
I am Canadian. I was born here. And I know a lot of Canadians who weren't.
I am Canadian, because knowing not much else I really like the land and also enjoy many stereotypical past times. But I know a lot of Canadians that don't talk about maple syrup, make Mountie jokes, wear plaid winterwear or other such silliness.
I am Canadian, I drink whatever beer is available when I feel like having a beer - be it Bud, Canadian or Mill Street Organic. I know some Canadians who cannot drink beer or do not.
I am Canadian, I like CBC and TVO. But I know a lot more Canadians that don't.
I am Canadian, because currently my address is located here, my citizenship is solely Canadian, the Canadian bureaucracy has me marked in their books more than any other and they seem to keep those books up to date, and I am not sure wherever the genesis of ol' clan Last Name occured, either, so, yeah. Canadian.
they call me canadian, because i was born in winnipeg in 1980. If i had been born a few hundred years earlier i'd probably be called something else.
they call me canadian. they issue passports and photo ID and social insurance numbers and T4's and flags that tell me so.
they call me canadian. they make laws, invade countries, steal land, support terror and hurt people for me.
they call me canadian, but they also call me a taxpayer, a consumer, a voter, a number.
They call me canadian. but i'm just a person.
I am Canadian because I was born in a dedicated space, correctly or incorrectly, called Canada.
And I am thankful I was, as for all the numerous faults contained within this established country framework, had I been born elsewhere, my life as a women would have been much more difficult than it was/is.
This space called Canada has defined us as individuals, you hate the space that has defined you, then I believe you have a good deal of self-loathing occuring. And that is always a externally imposed reality, that does no one any good.
Last night I was watching a show on Orca's, and I learned a good deal from it. The 2 things which stuck out, actually 3, were:
1. Orca's are not whales, let alone killer whales, they are part of the dolphin family.
2. They are very chatty individuals and have different accents depending on where they are located in the world. The ones off of the BC coast have long lilting voices, the ones off of the coast of New Zealand, actually sound like Kiwi human accents, and the ones off of Antartica sound like they have been swallowing helium.
3. They make no apologies for who they are.
Growing up, I never thought I'd ever need to apologize for being a Canadian. Everywhere I looked there was progress against injustice and bigotry and ignorance.
And then came Brian Mulroney and Paul Martin and Stephen Harper (not forgetting Ralph Klein, Mike Harris and Gord Campbell). I've learned how one's nation can be a source of shame and embarrassment.
I know that one day I'm going to have to answer the question: How could you just stand by and allow the country to be taken over?
I am Canadian because I told my boss to go F@#$ himself and didn't get fired.
I am Canadian.
What's on TV?
Growing up, I never thought I'd ever need to apologize for being a Canadian. Everywhere I looked there was progress against injustice and bigotry and ignorance.
And then came Brian Mulroney and Paul Martin and Stephen Harper (not forgetting Ralph Klein, Mike Harris and Gord Campbell). I've learned how one's nation can be a source of shame and embarrassment.
I know that one day I'm going to have to answer the question: How could you just stand by and allow the country to be taken over?
My thoughts exactly. It could have been a good country. Our home on native land has been transformed into a Northern Puerto Rico with voter turnouts close to what they are in Fiji and Benin. And I'm not even sure where Benin is.
I am a Canadian who wishes he was still living in Acadia not Canada. i am a Canadian that does not like imperial war and warmongers. I am proud of the fact that in WW1 when they sent out draft notices over 80% of them were completely ignored. I am ashamed that the government murdered Ginger for being one of that large majority. As a Canadian I was stunned to learn that prohibition was enacted in BC when the WW1 vets were still in Europe and couldn't vote.
I am proud as a Canadian of the generation of working people from every political stripe who in the 40's, 50's and 60's built the social net that makes us the caring society we are. I am ashamed to be from the generation that has spent 30 years giving every single gain back to the elite because time and time again it was more expediant to not fight than risk it all over any one issue.
As you know, Kropotkin, the NDP fought two elections against CUSFTA and the expanded version. Liberals lied and Canada died.
My parents were born outside Canada as citizens of another nation, and still live in the same place they were born. I was born as a Canadian citizen in the same area that they were born in. They have been Canadian citizens for quite awhile now, but have never taken an oath of Citizenship.
Hmm I guess they wouldn't have to, slumberjack, after their government voted to join confederation.
I'm Canadian, eh.
I am a Zionist. Oh, woops, wrong thread.
edited to add something postive:
remind, you made a typo. "women" should read "white, settler, woman with citizenship". Unless you think that the 600+ missing Indigenous women would have been less not investigated in other jurisdictions? And I know that you could give another 10 000 examples of why Canada does not make things that easy for a whole bunch of other women.
I find these bizzaro displays of nationaiism kinda disapointing. I mean most of you have expressed your "Canadianess" through the efforts of people and communities who have resisted the state. You all strike me much more as citizens of the world committed to justice than a nationalist brand used to make us feel special and win our continued support for the extreme violence and oppression that make Canada possible.
You are all so much better than that.
Shitdisturber.
Yeah, it stands - even after the addition was edited in.
remind, you made a typo. "women" should read "white, settler, woman with citizenship". Unless you think that the 600+ missing Indigenous women would have been less not investigated in other jurisdictions? And I know that you could give another 10 000 examples of why Canada does not make things that easy for a whole bunch of other women.
You know Le T, I disagree factually, but not in essence. Am 6 generations Canadian, though like slumberjack my heritage could not be considered "Canadian" until 1949, just a few years before I was born, and have no choice to be other than what I term Canadian, there is no other "ethnic heritage" available.
... had thought about all that you inferred, before I decided to respond, and indeed also thought about how someday we will all just be citzens of the earth, as opposed to citizens of countries, but I also understand we are not there yet as peoples who are accepting of all others and our differences, as part of the common "earthling" reality. I understand social change is a process, not an instant breakfast, no matter how much we want it to be.
... live right here at ground zero, of the Hwy of Tears, or Hwy 16, as others know it, and have been out searching for a young First Nations girl stolen from her family and friends, who was raped and murdered and then dumped like garbage beside the Hwy of Tears....have friends who lived in residental schools and suffer hugely still from that horrendous experience. My daughter is First Nations, and overall I believe I have a fairly good understanding of many of the dynamics at play, curent and historical, across this land mass.
So....I need no attempted guilt trips from you, at my words, nor recriminations. It does everyone a disservice and you are "so much better than that"...
I am Canadian, which is why last night I went to a perogy supper to help raise funds to go toward preventing human trafficking in Ukraine.
http://www.nashi.ca/news.html
I wasn't trying to guilt trip you. I was just suprised that you would make such a statment infering that living in Canada makes things easier for women, generally.
I wasn't trying to guilt trip you. I was just suprised that you would make such a statment infering that living in Canada makes things easier for women, generally.
Ummm, she has a point you know.
Unless you think a woman living in Africa Haiti or Afghanistan faces the same level of trials and difficulties as a woman living in Canada. If you do I suggest you get a plane ticket to Africa put some shoes on and start walking.
Was there ever any doubt about this thread turning into a "reasonswhy I hate Canada
thread? Not in my mind.
So add your own Canadian vignette(s). I think that was the original idea.
I wasn't trying to guilt trip you. I was just suprised that you would make such a statment infering that living in Canada makes things easier for women, generally.
Ya, you were, just as you still are.
I cannot speak for other women, I can only speak for myself, and my lived experiences, based upon my knowlege of the rest of the world and comparing those places and the plights of women, to where I live. And thus I say for MYSELF, I am glad to be Canadian.
...have every right as a human and a woman to be glad I am here and NOT anywhere else, and I am not going to allow myself to be trashed, nor frowned upon, for speaking MY truth.
I know my daughter and granddaughter are better off here in Canada, than they would be most anywhere else in the world, even if they are subject to colonial racism and sexism in Canada.
My bad Canada is awesome. It's the best country and is a beacon to world in terms of women's rights, queer rights, Indigenous rights, anti-poverty and the environment. If it wasn't for Canada we would all be worse off. Canada is the best. I mean think of what a shit hole Turtle Island would be today if it wasn't for the creation of Canada. God save the Queen!
We cannot change history Le T, we can only deal with what is, and what is reality currently and go from there.
And you know what, my daughter would rarther be a FN's person in Canada than one in the USA, or Mexico.
My bad Canada is awesome. It's the best country and is a beacon to world in terms of women's rights, queer rights, Indigenous rights, anti-poverty and the environment. If it wasn't for Canada we would all be worse off. Canada is the best. I mean think of what a shit hole Turtle Island would be today if it wasn't for the creation of Canada. God save the Queen!
So where else in the world have you lived?
We cannot change history Le T, we can only deal with what is, and what is reality currently and go from there.
And you know what, my daughter would rarther be a FN's person in Canada than one in the USA, or Mexico.
Not everyone shares those sentiments. Ask a series of indigenous people from South of the US border the same thing, and I am certain you will get similar biases.
I've never been of the blinders that come with nationalism or nationalism itself.
So whatever happened to the Picts?
We cannot change history Le T, we can only deal with what is, and what is reality currently and go from there.
And you know what, my daughter would rarther be a FN's person in Canada than one in the USA, or Mexico.
Sorry remind, I'm not trying to single you out in this thread. I think that everyone who has expressed their love of "canada" is a little misguided. I take exception to your "cannot change history" line, which we have heard so many times used to re-write and erase history for the benefit of those in power. I also think that using the heresay testimony of your daughter as a representative of indigenous people is a little out of line with the anti-racist and anti-colonial aspirations of the babble.
The point that I'm trying to make is that what most people in this thread are saying makes them proud "canadians" are things that were accomplished in spite of Canada, not because of it. We don't have rights because we are Canadian, we have rights because we are human. The state of Canada has stolen many of these human rights from many people (still does) and social movements have wrestled some back from the state.
It's not because of Canada that many women in Canada (depending on where they live and their imigration status) can control their own bodies, it's because of the many, many women and their allies that fought and died for the government to stop limiting this inherent right.
It's not because of Canada that we have a minimum wage, weekends, or other employment rights, it's because of the many, many workers who fought and died to force the government to reinstate these rights.
It's certainly not because of Canada that some indigenous communities have started to recover from the last 200 years of attempted genocide.
Canada is a fiction. It is a made up identity that keeps people from realizing what is really going on. The very fact that we have boarders defended by massive amounts of weaponry should be a sign to all of you that Canada has nothing to do with freedom, democracy or human rights.
Canada is a fiction. It is a made up identity that keeps people from realizing what is really going on. The very fact that we have boarders defended by massive amounts of weaponry should be a sign to all of you that Canada has nothing to do with freedom, democracy or human rights.
The nation-state is a construction that attempts to protect itself through internal policing and consequential and perpetual violence, too. It should be no surprise why all nation-states are essentially "police states" of one form or another.
I just want to share that I have very little to share with other so-called "Canadians" in other parts of this vast territory, except that I am shaped by many of the same forces as them.
I also think that using the heresay testimony of your daughter as a representative of indigenous people is a little out of line with the anti-racist and anti-colonial aspirations of the babble.
Really? Then why was Charter Rights "my mohawk friends tell me" not bad and why did you fail to condemn that to but instead praised it?
must have missed it. can you link to the thread?
Crap Le T, my apologies. I had you confused with E Tamaron.
Heres the link tho
We cannot change history Le T, we can only deal with what is, and what is reality currently and go from there.
And you know what, my daughter would rarther be a FN's person in Canada than one in the USA, or Mexico.
Sorry remind, I'm not trying to single you out in this thread. I think that everyone who has expressed their love of "canada" is a little misguided. I take exception to your "cannot change history" line, which we have heard so many times used to re-write and erase history for the benefit of those in power. I also think that using the heresay testimony of your daughter as a representative of indigenous people is a little out of line with the anti-racist and anti-colonial aspirations of the babble.
The point that I'm trying to make is that what most people in this thread are saying makes them proud "canadians" are things that were accomplished in spite of Canada, not because of it. We don't have rights because we are Canadian, we have rights because we are human. The state of Canada has stolen many of these human rights from many people (still does) and social movements have wrestled some back from the state.
It's not because of Canada that many women in Canada (depending on where they live and their imigration status) can control their own bodies, it's because of the many, many women and their allies that fought and died for the government to stop limiting this inherent right.
It's not because of Canada that we have a minimum wage, weekends, or other employment rights, it's because of the many, many workers who fought and died to force the government to reinstate these rights.
It's certainly not because of Canada that some indigenous communities have started to recover from the last 200 years of attempted genocide.
Canada is a fiction. It is a made up identity that keeps people from realizing what is really going on. The very fact that we have boarders defended by massive amounts of weaponry should be a sign to all of you that Canada has nothing to do with freedom, democracy or human rights.
On the point of histroy...what can one expect? To rewrite a false, just histroy? Things can be rewritten, but in the case of Canada a rewrite does nothing to fix past grievances. Unless my activism powered time machine is a success, then I think that the only way one can deal with history is through hard work to right the wrongs that make up the recorded past.
As for "We don't have rights because we are Canadian, we have rights because we are human." I'd argue it is a bit of both, because there are quite a few places in the world where being a human affords you nothing but horrific state control.
And you know what, my daughter would rarther be a FN's person in Canada than one in the USA, or Mexico.
Sorry remind, I'm not trying to single you out in this thread.
I do not mind if you were, it is not a subject I am going to veer away from, nor am I bothered by discussing it with you.
That is fair enough, as I believe the same of you.
Don't care if you do actually, as it is the reality of things. We cannot go back and change what has happened, we can only learn from it and change things in the now and in the future, thus ensuring we have learned from history, and make sure it does not happen anymore, or again.
There is nothing in my being that would suggest to you that I am attempting to re-write and erase history, thus your comment is pretty damn offensive in this instance. Plus it contains more than a bit of arrogant assurity that you know it all, and a heads up to you, ya don't.
Don't give a shit about what you think about that either, as I seldom speak of my daughter and my granddaughter in respect to their First Nations heritage, as I try very hard NOT to expropriate their voices. However, I am rethinking that forced upon me silence too, as I feel it marginalizes who they are, their heritage, and what OUR lived experience is as a family, under the pressures of a racist Canada and North America. And given the way Trisha Baptie and other First Nations people's are treated here, you will have to pardon me if I say I have absolutely NO belief in babble's anti-colonial, anti-racistness in respect to attitudes here when it comes to First Nations..
For example, do you have any idea how it feels as a mother or granddmother, to know your Granddaughter's friends, whom she has gone to school with for 7 years, are no longer allowed to visit her at her home, because she now lives on a urban Rez, as opposed to a home in the "good part of the community"? My heart is torn out that still my granddaughter faces racism of such a sort in this day and age, but yet I felt I could not speak of it here, and then thanks to this conversation, we are having, I realized I have every right to speak of it here, it is a family experience, just not an individual one. Asking me, no actually telling me, to isolate myself from those I love, is wrong, and indeed I believe racist to insist that I should remain mute. If I can speak of their experiences as women, and children, I sure as hell can speak of their experiences as being of First Nations.
These are the things we as a family live with, and learn from, and thus are shaped from, but they in no way detract from our understanding that should we have had the misfortune to live elsewhere, it could be a hellva lot worse, for us all.
heads up Le T people are shaped by the society they live in. The society is formed by numerous independant people with lived experiences sharing their knowlege and driving the communities and country of Canada.
An example of this would be, as it played out in Canadian history/herstory, my maternal grandmother died in child birth during the great depression on the farm during a blizzard, and her body got put out in the barn until the blizzard was over and they could take her to town to have her and the unborn baby declared dead.
Now, there were several contributing factors with that unfortunate incidence, one was lack of money to be able to afford a Dr and health care, another was no municipal road maintenance, and still the other was NO social safety net by way of welfare so they could have had money to live on as their crops blew away. Not going to go into why the crops blew away at this point, but it too was for a bs capitalist classist reason.
Canada changed the people who lived here and the people changed Canada. I do not buy the "inspite of" nonsense fed to us. It is short sighted and reeks of superiority complexes.
My family fought for social justice and universal health care because of their lived experiences, just like many others did across this country. And what social justice we have came about because of their and others lived experiences on the land called Canada. My personl heritage has brought me to fight for social justice and anti-war my whole life, and it came about from the lived experiences of my family over the generations and myself.
Fuck....grrr...I was just born yesterday and had no idea of Canadian women's struggles. Thank you for telling me. However, now that I know, I will have to disagree.
With this too, I disagree.
And with this too.
No actually it is not fiction, it is pretty damn non-fiction in all of its many and significant faults, and in all of it's good actions.
It is no different by way of weaponry than any other country in the world. Someday perhaps the many will realize there will be no need of any, today is not that day though.
It is no more of a made identity than you have tried to create, and perhaps less so, than you have tried to create.
Respect you in many ways, but you are way off base in trying to tell me what I do not know, and how I should be, or believe..
Really enjoying and agreeing with your posts in this thread Remind.
I love Canada and think it is the best place on Earth to live in. Every time I travel it makes me appreciate Canada all the more.
I love traveling and hearing people tell me how lucky I am to live in Canada. I love how many cultures we've embraced. I'm patient with people who think I am misguided because I figure they haven't seen what I have.
I love the freedom we have to protest and rally. I love all the random acts of kindness I see every day.
A small mind is easily filled with faith they say. Maybe I'm brainwashed "by the man" but I have a lot of faith in Canada and Canadians.
We are capable of great things and in the future we will be the leading force in human rights equality and tolerance.
Of course that's not anyone wants to hear. The glass is half empty seems common.
Canada is frigging awesome and for all our faults we still surpass SO many others IMHO.
Now, I wonder how many people's blood I sent boiling (=
Thanks P4.
But I will disagree about our superiority by way of tolerance and human rights..
Now having said that I am going to elaborate on this comment below of mine made above, in response to Le T calling canada fiction, because I am tired of editing it and adding on to the thought process.
Canada as a country has done terrible things to peoples here and around the world. To say that Canada is fiction is to internally shirk responsibility for those very real bad actions that Canada has committed.
Moreover, it diminishes the reality and plight of those who have lived negative experiences at the hands of "Canada". It was not fictional happenings that they experienced, it was life destroying or altering experiences.
Thought terminating cliches like that of "Canada is fiction" have no place here. it shuns and sets aside the very real experiences of those damaged by Canada, indeed I believe only one who has never experienced hurt at the hands of Canada, could say that Canada is fictional. Or that they so want to shirk the social justice responsibility, that is still occuring, that is theirs too, they refuse to look at what was done in THEIR name.
Actually, remind, anyone who wants to say Canada is fiction, or Canada is the best or the worst country ever, is entitled to say so.
For the record, N.Beltov, I blame you for this entire thread. And Canada as well.
Sure they can say so maysie, never said they couldn't, I said "have no place here" a bit of a play on Le T's actually telling me what I have a right to say, or not say, here.
Of course that's not anyone wants to hear. The glass is half empty seems common.
For me it's not that the glass is half empty but that it's half full of air.
I like hearing the unique individual stories that people have offered as to what makes them who they are, but I don't really want to hear self-congratulations nor congratulations from outsiders. It is making the best(whatever that means to you) of the situation you're in that is important. It is not the freedoms and privleges you have that counts but what you do with them that defines your place on the spectrum between pride and shame.
Personally, I don't like to spend much time looking at spectrums or comparing my GNH with others. I like discovering my surroundings, I like discovering how I fit into the bigger picture, I like making the most of what I got. I am Canadian.
Mea culpa. It was late at night and I'd had a few.
yes, Catholic guilt is also part of Canada.... ;)
I am citizen of the world in a construct called Canada.
FTW Le T!! You rock.
I forgive you N.
And I refuse to answer your question on the grounds that I will be immoderate.
This is all you're gonna get about me.
The Pope has spoken. I think you deserve to be at least a high priestess of anti-racism calling you the pope is so wrong.
[this is a reference to comments on the Dr. Dawg blog]
Yeah I still can't see where those comments are. My life is not in tatters because of it however.
I have to say, comparing me to the Pope is a grievous insult indeed. What would my atheist lapsed-Jewish mother say, never mind my deceased Buddhist-Christian father?
I believe I've enjoyed the label Feminist Anti Racist Thug, but someone pointed out a problem with the acronym.
Maysie... didn't your copy of Feminism 101 have the chapter about not being ashamed of bodily functions? It's a perfectly charming acronym, and wearing it proudly would seriously undermine those concerns about "humourless feminists". And just wait a few years till you become the Abbess of anti-ageism.... then you can be an old Feminist Anti Racist Thug.
Wow, this is even more fun than a Nyah bomb.
bagkitty, that's not funny.
.
.
.
ROFLMAO
I am Canadian
.
.
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so what?
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.
.
eh?
I am Canadian too, and know Furby and Langside very well, the North End the West End, St. Vital, you name it I have been there it was amazing where 65 cents and transit tom would take you.
I am a Canadian from Manitoba and know that to us here in Manitoba Groundhogs Day means nada, the snow will hang on as long as it likes and the geese will walk around in this snow like it is something new each year,
I start sentences with it is only 20 below today and I am actually excited about this fact truly I am during the winter, I own toques for many occasions, life on the prairies.
But I am Canadian because I love our freedoms, our people and what we stand for, I believe in our country and who we are. Through tough times we always seem to unite and we are always willing to lend a hand to our neighbours. I watch a show on a Canadian channel before I watch it on an American channel. I think we have the best of every world multi-culturals, friendly people. This is the best country in the world with its vast land areas, mountains, lakes, prairies, ocean, tundra, canadian sheild etc. I am Canadian and proud of it..
This cheerleeding boosterism over being Canadian seems rather un-Canadian to me.
I'm a Canadian. So what?
It is un-Canadian for many people and I do think that is very sad.
It is comments like that "I'm a Canadian. So what?" that are very disturbing, I bet you take advantages to all the benefits of being Canadian and I will not point them out if you don't know what they are then move to another country, where you feel you would be happy. But as for me when people ask me what I am I may explain my heritage but my first reply is "I am Canadian" and damn proud of that fact.
I'm happy enough where I am, but this "Rah rah rah, we're better than all the other countries" nonsense is the kind of attitude that leads to swell stuff like My Lai and Buchenwald.
As for this:
"Canada, love it or leave it" is so Queens c. 1970.
I guess those Olympics worked.
double post
It is un-Canadian for many people and I do think that is very sad.
Actually, it would make me very happy. Propegating the myth that it's uncanadian to be proud without reason is the kind of thing of thing that makes me proud(or at least little more so). There have been many posts in this thread that have done a pretty good job a pointing out that advantages and benefits are not reason enough to be proud. Particularly if you are unable to account for how those privleges were obtained.
Forkin olymics on the otherhand make me depressed.
It is un-Canadian for many people and I do think that is very sad.
It is comments like that "I'm a Canadian. So what?" that are very disturbing, I bet you take advantages to all the benefits of being Canadian and I will not point them out if you don't know what they are then move to another country, where you feel you would be happy.
My ancestors came to Acadia in 1651 and have been fighting imperialism ever since. I hate macho nationalism it leads to things like the Grand Derangement. So if I don't like your vision of Canada I can just leave. The imperialists tried ethnic cleansing in the 1750's and it didn't work because the Acadians who survived came back to their 'homeland." Except for those who escaped the roundup and fought a guerilla war for 15 years against the British and Americans. And you dare to tell me what I must my believe to live in a country that was created over two hundred years after my ancestors arrived and settled in peace in the Bay of Fundy.
Here is some culture for you that is proudly Acadian.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybir6-zmgTg
People can rarely appreciate something they were born into. I'm not big into Rah, Rah - Canada's # 1 type statements
On the other hand - the ignorance of what's it like to live in truly repressive countries can lead to idiotic statements by right-wingers comparing living in Canada to North Korea or well intentioned but naive left wingers saying life for women in Pakistan is no different than women living in Canada, to give just a couple of examples.
It almost seems that to be progressive one must deny that any progress has ever been made. I have more thoughts on this but don't really have the time to write now.
If I talk about the incredible contributions that african americans have made to the world's art and culture in the 20th century am I defending the slave trade. One wouldn't have happened without the other.
I'm happy enough where I am, but this "Rah rah rah, we're better than all the other countries" nonsense is the kind of attitude that leads to swell stuff like My Lai and Buchenwald.
I disagree. I'm not sure what Buchenwald is but speaking about My Lai, while there are probably a bunch of other factors I would argue that if those soldiers had MORE Rah Rah rah they might have thought twice about disgracing their country. Anytime I'm on the fulcrum point of doing something stupid I ask myself how would this look int he news? Would I bring dishonour to Canada if this hit the national news? Obviously ethics and morals play a role but sometimes people don't "Think big". Maybe this is more accurate today given how closely embeded the media is with all things military.
I agree with him. Lots of people are quick to say FUCK CANADA! but have no problem taking advantage of the benefits of being Canadian.
I hate the cliche "if you don't love it, leave" but to me anyways it does have [somewhat of a] a ring of truth to it. If you really can't stand Canada either leave OR do something about it. Try to change it. Don't just blog about it.
Buchenwald is an example of nationalism and xenophobia run amok, driven by a ego maniac charismatic leader, who was funded by corporations intent on establishing a fascist world order, and used everyone and everything to that end, and who had cutting edge propaganda devices still in use today..
Godwin.
Thank you for the link Remind.
hell, what a gruesome gruesome place. I wasn't expecting or ready for that it made my stomach turn and brought tears to my eyes. I see the link to nationalism and xenophobia but it goes well into the realm of evil and madness.
Point?
Frankly, am pretty sick of chirpy snide little personal attack comments spewing forth, from someone pretending they are oh so above it all. The smell of hypocrisy in the morning is decidedly unpleasant.
Have you been reading your own posts again, Remind?
I agree with him. Lots of people are quick to say FUCK CANADA! but have no problem taking advantage of the benefits of being Canadian.
I hate the cliche "if you don't love it, leave" but to me anyways it does have [somewhat of a] a ring of truth to it. If you really can't stand Canada either leave OR do something about it. Try to change it. Don't just blog about it.
Do try to be less binary in your thinking. Are our options limited to either waving red-and-white pom poms or excoriating Canada?
By not not jumping up and down like a baboon, howling CA-NA-DA and shaking my scarlet, maple-scented buttocks at foreign passers-by, am I somehow expressing criticism of Canada?
I agree with him. Lots of people are quick to say FUCK CANADA! but have no problem taking advantage of the benefits of being Canadian.
I hate the cliche "if you don't love it, leave" but to me anyways it does have [somewhat of a] a ring of truth to it. If you really can't stand Canada either leave OR do something about it. Try to change it. Don't just blog about it.
Do try to be less binary in your thinking. Are our options limited to either waving red-and-white pom poms or excoriating Canada?
By not not jumping up and down like a baboon, howling CA-NA-DA and shaking my scarlet, maple-scented buttocks at foreign passers-by, am I somehow expressing criticism of Canada?
yes. A narrow view see's better
ya'all better love it or leave! If you don't love it ur a darn freedom hater! C'mere while I paint this flag on you where's your support the troops sticker?!
Just kidding.
No your options are not limited to that. You know that though- and you know that I'm not suggesting it either.
I'm speaking about the "fuck Canada!" crowd that critique everything yet offer no plan to improve it. The quote I agreed with mentioned people who have no problems with the associated benefits.
If someone REALLY has that big of a problem with Canada then as far as I'm concerned they can move somewhere else OR try to change it. 10 years ago I noticed something at my work that really bugged me. I could have quit or just complain about it but instead I tried to do something about it [and 10 years later still quietly fighting trying to change it]
I agree with him. Lots of people are quick to say FUCK CANADA! but have no problem taking advantage of the benefits of being Canadian.
I hate the cliche "if you don't love it, leave" but to me anyways it does have [somewhat of a] a ring of truth to it. If you really can't stand Canada either leave OR do something about it. Try to change it. Don't just blog about it.
Do try to be less binary in your thinking. Are our options limited to either waving red-and-white pom poms or excoriating Canada?
By not not jumping up and down like a baboon, howling CA-NA-DA and shaking my scarlet, maple-scented buttocks at foreign passers-by, am I somehow expressing criticism of Canada?
Perhaps not. But it IS a glorious image of defiance. "Maple scented"?
I agree with him. Lots of people are quick to say FUCK CANADA! but have no problem taking advantage of the benefits of being Canadian.
I hate the cliche "if you don't love it, leave" but to me anyways it does have [somewhat of a] a ring of truth to it. If you really can't stand Canada either leave OR do something about it. Try to change it. Don't just blog about it.
Do try to be less binary in your thinking. Are our options limited to either waving red-and-white pom poms or excoriating Canada?
By not not jumping up and down like a baboon, howling CA-NA-DA and shaking my scarlet, maple-scented buttocks at foreign passers-by, am I somehow expressing criticism of Canada?
Perhaps not. But it IS a glorious image of defiance. "Maple scented"?
Al Qa'bong's shit doesn't stink (=
[Sorry couldn't help it]
No your options are not limited to that. You know that though- and you know that I'm not suggesting it either.
I'm speaking about the "fuck Canada!" crowd that critique everything yet offer no plan to improve it. The quote I agreed with mentioned people who have no problems with the associated benefits.
Given the context of your message in this thread I think al's binary comment is justified and your comments seems out of place. Nobody has said anything like "fuck canada"
Some of us have said something like "Canada's fucked".
No one's happy about it, though.
I agree with him. Lots of people are quick to say FUCK CANADA! but have no problem taking advantage of the benefits of being Canadian.
I hate the cliche "if you don't love it, leave" but to me anyways it does have [somewhat of a] a ring of truth to it. If you really can't stand Canada either leave OR do something about it. Try to change it. Don't just blog about it.
Do try to be less binary in your thinking. Are our options limited to either waving red-and-white pom poms or excoriating Canada?
By not not jumping up and down like a baboon, howling CA-NA-DA and shaking my scarlet, maple-scented buttocks at foreign passers-by, am I somehow expressing criticism of Canada?
Perhaps not. But it IS a glorious image of defiance. "Maple scented"?
Al Qa'bong's shit doesn't stink (= [Sorry couldn't help it]
Sorry, I'm the one NOT cheerleading.
...petards...hoisting...
No your options are not limited to that. You know that though- and you know that I'm not suggesting it either.
I'm speaking about the "fuck Canada!" crowd that critique everything yet offer no plan to improve it. The quote I agreed with mentioned people who have no problems with the associated benefits.
Given the context of your message in this thread I think al's binary comment is justified and your comments seems out of place. Nobody has said anything like "fuck canada"
hell, what a gruesome gruesome place. I wasn't expecting or ready for that it made my stomach turn and brought tears to my eyes. I see the link to nationalism and xenophobia but it goes well into the realm of evil and madness.
Well, frankly I could not believe you have never heard of it. Did not think there was anyone who hasn't participating here, especially those in the military.
the use of evil and madness suggest that it is a one of occurance, that never could happen again, it isn't.
This is why people are so insistent that Canadian military persons understand their responsibilities in respect to the Geneva Conventions and the results of the Nuremburg Trials stating individual culpability, if they act upon orders that are inhumane and war crimes against humanity. or if they fail to report breaches in the Geneva Convention.
Canadian politicians and bureaucrats who allow crimes against humanity to exist, are every bit as complicit as those in the military who let places and instances like those of mai Li and Buchenwald exist, on any level of the spectrum.
As Buchenwald was put in the same category, though IMV worse, as Mai Li, you should have been prepared, unless of course you do not understand it either.
It almost seems that to be progressive one must deny that any progress has ever been made. I have more thoughts on this but don't really have the time to write now.
If I talk about the incredible contributions that african americans have made to the world's art and culture in the 20th century am I defending the slave trade. One wouldn't have happened without the other.
and there is probably something interesting and worth discussing in here and I'd be sad if the conversation takes the other fork.
remind this will be my last post on this topic. Not that I'm pouting but I think I'm causing a bit of a thread drift.[And I wanted to run away still feeling clever for my smart alec comment against Al Q lol].
I wanted to reply you first though and let you know I wasn't ignoring you.
[Well, frankly I could not believe you have never heard of it. Did not think there was anyone who hasn't participating here, especially those in the military.
I've seen the concentration camps in person. I've read about them as much as the next person, that specific term/word is just on that I must have never crossed before.
the use of evil and madness suggest that it is a one of occurance, that never could happen again, it isn't.
I don't think so. It's madness evil and insane. It has every chance of happening again- I hope we can stop it before it does though.
This is why people are so insistent that Canadian military persons understand their responsibilities in respect to the Geneva Conventions and the results of the Nuremburg Trials stating individual culpability, if they act upon orders that are inhumane and war crimes against humanity. or if they fail to report breaches in the Geneva Convention.
Agreed. It's hard to debate this here. I was warned via PM when I first came here to STFU about anything to do with the war if I wanted to remain a poster here.
I say it's hard to debate it here because the feeling I get is that most here seem to believe once a Canadian soldier steps on the airplanw to goto Afghanistan they are war criminals violating the geeneva convention and going against the UN and killing for oil etc.. etc..
Still I agree that soldiers need to understand the part they are playing. Not so much in terms of national stuff but ont he front lines handing over prisoners, how they teach prisoners, reporting wrong doign they see.
As Buchenwald was put in the same category, though IMV worse, as Mai Li, you should have been prepared, unless of course you do not understand it either.
Without deeper introspection I see them as both evil but different.
US soldiers didn't have the support of people back home. Not a justification for what they did but I can imagine them not giving a shit how they look or the image/legacy they are leaving. For the SS it was on a much grander scale. They seemed to have the support [ignorant or not] of their whole country. i can't remember the psychological term for it but basically killing/commiting those types of crimes is easier when your ordered to by someone in a place of authroity.
Anyhow this might be better carried on in a different thread? If one pops up and you invite me to offer my opinion I'd be happy to do so.