2018 polls 2

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Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

WWWTT wrote:

LOL! Hey Cody 87 how about you check you numbers again? Mine say that China produces less than half per capita than a country like Canada or the US. Lower than Germany and Japan PER CAPITA!

https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/science/each-c...

Edited to add

Actualy Cody87 I checked over the per capita numbers in your wikipedia link and they show that China is actually reducing their per capita numbers in relation to Canada and the US! But but but how can that be if they don't have a pro environment government as you suggest???

According to your logic, 1 Chinese person does not equal 1 Canadian person! That's fuckin racism! And you call yourself a progressive! How about you do the rest of us real progressives a favour and stop trying to stand so close to us.

As far as your western links about Islamic extremists in China goes, I know you're real disapointed that these religious fanatics are not allowed to rampage on atheists, killing innocent people at train stations durring holidays in their attempt to bring down the peoples communist government.

But hey, I predicted that closet imperialists like you would come out of the woodwork once these polls showing your darling Justin was in trouble for jailing a Chinese national at the wishes of his imperialist masters the US!

 

 

How do you know they're "extremists"?  Any regime that throws dissidents in prison is going to use inflammatory terms like "extremist" or "terrorist" to describe those they've imprisoned?  Do you actually just take their word about what they do?

WWWTT

@North Report Ken Burch and Cody 87

Hey this isn't the China thread, it's the poll thread. As far as Islamic extremists in China goes, this is what I think you're talking about.

http://www.xinhuanet.com//english/2015-03/24/c_134092965.htm

And here's another interesting one about an environmental geared program(out of hundreds) in China

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-12/20/c_137687700.htm

If you posters want to discuss Justin's liberals shocking poll numbers, and why, bring it! If you want to ignore the poll numbers and try to divert the debate to "hey everyone look at how bad China is", then I will treat you the same way I treat trolls and ignore you.

 

JKR

WWWTT wrote:

If you want to ignore the poll numbers and try to divert the debate to "hey everyone look at how bad China is", then I will treat you the same way I treat trolls and ignore you.

 

And trolls often blame others for what they are guilty of doing!!!

Sean in Ottawa

W suggested I was a Liberal in another thread as well. Generic insult I guess.

Debater

JKR wrote:

WWWTT wrote:

If you want to ignore the poll numbers and try to divert the debate to "hey everyone look at how bad China is", then I will treat you the same way I treat trolls and ignore you.

 

And trolls often blame others for what they are guilty of doing!!!

Very good point, JKR.

I haven't posted here in 6 months, but I see a lot of the same patterns are still evident here.

Eg. Feuds between NDP & Liberal supporters, and people attacking other fellow posters as "trolls".

That's probably why I, and many other people, don't come here often anymore.

JKR

Debater wrote:

JKR wrote:

WWWTT wrote:

If you want to ignore the poll numbers and try to divert the debate to "hey everyone look at how bad China is", then I will treat you the same way I treat trolls and ignore you.

 

And trolls often blame others for what they are guilty of doing!!!

Very good point, JKR.

I haven't posted here in 6 months, but I see a lot of the same patterns are still evident here.

Eg. Feuds between NDP & Liberal supporters, and people attacking other fellow posters as "trolls".

That's probably why I, and many other people, don't come here often anymore.

It seems that there a lot of tumbleweeds around here nowadays.

R.E.Wood

WWWTT wrote:

Send in the trolls! Oh no wait, they're already here.

WWWTT - you should refrain from calling other people trolls, especially when the people you're name-calling have been upstanding contributors here for far more years than you have been!

WWWTT

Here's a recent article from the cbc about the recent polls.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-year-end-polls-1.4953867

The impression I get from the this article is that, ultimately, if the trends continue, Justin and the liberals are out next election.

Up thread in a reply I made to another poster (more like a rant), I explained how Canadian election campaigns are pretty much dictated by who has the bigger stack of money ($100,000 being the desired war chest) and that this fact gives a huge discredit to so called Canadian democracy to the point that there really is no such thing in reality. Now, I'm only bringing this point back into my comment to calculate who will have the better chances going into the next election.

As we all know, the conservatives traditionally can raise the most money (and I don't see that changing any time soon) So I would expect the conservitive in the new year will be hitting with adds. How those will look I have not a freekin clue???

As far as the campaign funds the liberals have, I also, without doing further research, have no freekin clue??? And I would be really interested in seeing what those adds would look like!

And then the NDP. Oh man poor Jagmeet. I feel real heartbroken at this point for brother Jag. The campaign funds for the NDP, from reading the posts by other posters here at babble, is spelling bad news unless things change. The one add that Michael Moriaty shared was also not very promising. 

I think Jag is going to have to use the current events in Canada that Canadians are concerned with to heart! Besides what were some traditional NDP points of focus (housing, social programs, health care etc etc), include foreign policy! 

This may actually be one of the NDP's biggest weak points There seams to be no distinction in NDP foreign policy from the liberals conservatives.

WWWTT

R.E.Wood wrote:

WWWTT wrote:

Send in the trolls! Oh no wait, they're already here.

WWWTT - you should refrain from calling other people trolls, especially when the people you're name-calling have been upstanding contributors here for far more years than you have been!

Oh ok no problem! One condition though, these so called outstanding long time contributors take responsibility for the dwindling diversity among posters babble is famous for!

WWWTT

Debater wrote:

JKR wrote:

WWWTT wrote:

If you want to ignore the poll numbers and try to divert the debate to "hey everyone look at how bad China is", then I will treat you the same way I treat trolls and ignore you.

 

And trolls often blame others for what they are guilty of doing!!!

Very good point, JKR.

I haven't posted here in 6 months, but I see a lot of the same patterns are still evident here.

Eg. Feuds between NDP & Liberal supporters, and people attacking other fellow posters as "trolls".

That's probably why I, and many other people, don't come here often anymore.

Fair enough debater!

But by the same token, I myself have not even bothered looking at this thread for months on end because it suffered from chronic severe thread drift! After reading half a dozen comments or so, I would forget what thread I was in, and would even have to scroll back to the top of the page to see the actual thread title! And this would go on for pages and pages!

Are you willing to give my point the same consideration you request of me to give yours?

 

quizzical

nope.

Cody87

WWWTT wrote:

If you posters want to discuss Justin's liberals shocking poll numbers, and why, bring it! If you want to ignore the poll numbers and try to divert the debate to "hey everyone look at how bad China is", then I will treat you the same way I treat trolls and ignore you.

If you don't want people to talk about "how bad China is", don't promote Chinese propaganda.

In fact, the reason why there's isn't more discussion yet about Trudeau's falling poll numbers is because they have shifted quite rapidly and everyone here has been burned before at one point or other by trusting the polls and  celebrating prematurely. Trudeau could be 25% less popular than 6 weeks ago, or he could be 10% less popular + statistical noise. I suspect most others, like myself, are waiting to see more data. Even if opinion has shifted rapidly lately, there's nearly a year until the next election and there's a s***ton that can and will happen (both nationally and internationally) between now and then that could completely torpedo the current status quo.

But, with that said, I'll tell you why Trudeau is not less popular because of China. Broadly speaking, those on the right are nationalistic, not globalistic, and prefer individual liberty over collectivism - so they do not like China and certainly don't like the Chinese government. The left, which tends to be more globalist and collectivist, tends to like China. If Trudeau dissed China, the right would like him a bit better and the left would like him a bit less, and this would be reflected by an increase in support for the NDP (as lefty Liberals switch support from Trudeau to the NDP) and a decrease in support for the CPC (as a few "blue libs" switch from the CPC to Trudeau). This is not what we're seeing. What we're seeing is a decrease in support for both the NDP and Trudeau and an increase in support for the CPC. This could be part of the worldwide trend to the right seen basically everywhere in the western world since Brexit or it could be due to more local factors, but it's certainly not because that meanie Trudeau picked on the poor Chinese government.

WWWTT

Disagreed Cody87!

First off, from the cbc link I posted several comments backs, there’s evidence that there’s a trend underway. And as many of us know, these trends are really the thing to be looking for. Will this trend continue? I believe no one can say for sure. 

However, we have to look at why or what caused the trend in the first place. 

I speculated a year ago or so that Justin and the liberals wouldn’t slip anything significant until after marihuana became legal. So far I’m on target. And then the arrest of Ms Meng enters the picture. 

This event caused stock markets around the world to take noticeable hits as international investors get worried that the arrest of the cfo of one of the most important companies in the world may be a sign of economic chaos is approaching!

Then there’s the Canadian voters who sincerely believe that China is not an evil dictatorship. China is an important country that Canada should be reaching out to and expanding trade with. 

And finally the US and Trump! Justin and the liberals consistently doing whatever the US requests must have a negative impact. 

Will Wan Zhou Meng get released before the next federal election? I doubt it. Will the corporate media forget all about Meng Wan Zhou? I also doubt that. Will Ms Meng be sent to the US before the next election? Doubt that will happen to!

What I expect is this. In the new year, the cfo of HuaWei will appeal her extradition and there will be a series of court appearances, packed with journalists from around the world giving this case international scrutiny. Trump will keep being Trump, and use his tweets do his diplomacy. 

Keep in mind that Justin and the liberals are very inexperienced and are in way over their head in dealing with Trump and China ( they have already proven this) Unless the liberals get some kind of  unpredictable rare lucky break, I can’t see this trend lessening, only getting worse. 

 

bekayne

WWWTT wrote:

I speculated a year ago or so that Justin and the liberals wouldn’t slip anything significant until after marihuana became legal. So far I’m on target. And then the arrest of Ms Meng enters the picture. 

 

Nope, they slipped in March after the India trip.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_in_the_43rd_Canadian_feder...

WWWTT

Ya actually bekayne that was after the China and India trip!  The China trip, from what I recall, was an actual official visit. Justin tried to impose his new reinvented brand of liberal western morals into new trade with China. He also tried his corporate media circus freek side show selfy queen gig, but the Chinese authorities wouldn’t let the western corporate media photographers within 10-15M of the photo shoots. And whenever photographers got closer than allowed, security would just grab their cameras pointing them to the ground making for horrible pictures. 

During the trip to India, an unofficial visit, Justin was given all the rope he wanted to hang himself with!

After it became obvious that his selfy queen corporate media circus freek side show antics was revealing how much of an idiotic air head this guy really is, he dropped it. 

Not quite the same story with the arrest and now the upcoming case with Ms Meng now is it?

Its the holidays now so let’s give it a couple weeks to see what happens in the polls. I’m not even really sure if these pollsters even do polls at this time or if they’re accurate?

The courts won’t be doing anything with Ms Meng for a couple weeks so I expect Justin will probably be afraid to open his mouth and will want to stay in hiding for a bit.  

R.E.Wood

WWWTT wrote:

R.E.Wood wrote:

WWWTT wrote:

Send in the trolls! Oh no wait, they're already here.

WWWTT - you should refrain from calling other people trolls, especially when the people you're name-calling have been upstanding contributors here for far more years than you have been!

Oh ok no problem! One condition though, these so called outstanding long time contributors take responsibility for the dwindling diversity among posters babble is famous for!

No. I don't accept your condition. I suggested you should refrain from calling long-term Babble contributors "trolls", which they clearly aren't, and I stand by my suggestion. Be respectful.

Debater

With regard to the recent polls, just a few observations:

1.  Angus Reid has had low numbers for the Liberals for years, even when Trudeau was at the height of his popularity, so they seem to lowball Liberal numbers.

2. Angus Reid didn't provide any party support numbers -- they just said Trudeau has high disapproval, without providing the party support levels.  AR also says Trudeau has low approval in Quebec, even though other pollsters show him ahead in Quebec by a lot.

3. Ipsos, which usually leans Conservative, has Trudeau & the Liberals ahead (and higher in Quebec than they were in 2015).

4.  There's no doubt that Trudeau's honeymoon period is over and that the next election will be more competitive between the Liberals & the Conservatives than the Liberals were expecting.

NorthReport

More bad news for Team Trudeau.

Conservatives mounting charge ahead of federal election: poll

https://winnipegsun.com/news/national/conservatives-mounting-charge-ahea...

bekayne

NorthReport wrote:

More bad news for Team Trudeau.

Conservatives mounting charge ahead of federal election: poll

https://winnipegsun.com/news/national/conservatives-mounting-charge-ahea...

With those numbers, the Liberals would lose 2 seats to the Conservatives, and the NDP would lose Elmwood-Transcona to the Conservatives. So, yay?

Debater

NANOS (January 2, 2019)

Liberals 37

Conservatives 34

NDP 16

Green 6

People’s 1

http://www.nanos.co/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Political-Package-2018-12-28.pdf

Sean in Ottawa

Hard to say what will happen when an election is called. I think there is room for each of the parties to move in either direction so would not draw much from polls now.

NorthReport

When I read this I thought I was in the joke thread as this is more than a bit rich coming from Debater or whatever posting handles he is using these days.

 

quote=Debater]

JKR wrote:

WWWTT wrote:

If you want to ignore the poll numbers and try to divert the debate to "hey everyone look at how bad China is", then I will treat you the same way I treat trolls and ignore you.

 

And trolls often blame others for what they are guilty of doing!!!

Very good point, JKR.

I haven't posted here in 6 months, but I see a lot of the same patterns are still evident here.

Eg. Feuds between NDP & Liberal supporters, and people attacking other fellow posters as "trolls".

That's probably why I, and many other people, don't come here often anymore.

Debater

NorthReport wrote:

When I read this I thought I was in the joke thread as this is more than a bit rich coming from Debater or whatever posting handles he is using these days.

North Report, your post is an unncessary personal attack on me, and I'm tempted to report it to the moderator.

I don't post under any other handles here -- that is a total lie.

I was away from this forum for 6 months until a couple weeks ago, and it's stuff like this that keeps me and other posters from not coming here regularly.

You also ignored the point that JKR & I were making -- personal attacks on other posters and namecalling are not acceptable.

Debater

Nanos (released January 8, 2019):

Liberals (39)

Conservatives (33)

NDP (17)

Green (6)

People’s (1)

http://www.nanos.co/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/2019-01-04-Political-Package-Slides.pdf

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