$30,000 registration fee for NDP leadership candidates?

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Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture
$30,000 registration fee for NDP leadership candidates?

In the last leadership campaign, the fee was only $15,000...still exorbitant for what is supposed to be a "people's party"...but what possible grounds can there be for doubling that?

And how can a $30,000 fee lead to anything but a guarantee that only the blandest, most conservative, most anti-social movement people possible will be allowed to seek the leadership of the only party in Canadian politics that has any potential at all for being a force for social and economic transformation?

Why should the party be using the entrance fee as a means of preventing change?

And what possible defense can there be of doing this?

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

This is being discussed here:

http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/michael-laxer/2016/05/ndp-inhibits-inter...

But I thought it merited a Babble thread as well.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

I could see $5,000...but $30,000?

Can't we pretty much assume that the people who'd be able to raise that kind of coin would be free of any real core values?

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

The NDP's defense will of course be that they only want people to run who are "serious" about being leader of the NDP. Which of course implies that any one who is too outside the "mainstream" of the NDP is not worthy of "serious" consideration for the leadership. Ditto anyone who can't scrounge up $30,000 (read: low and modest income people who are more likely to be too radical for the party insiders.).

Also note that the 16-17 month time-frame for the leadership vote is likely to give ample time for the centrists wing of the party to scrounge up another candidate for the leadership in the likely event that Cullen flakes on them.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
read: low and modest income people who are more likely to be too radical for the party insiders.

Uh, isn't the next leader kind of likely to be an MP or former MP who enjoyed an income over TWICE the national average?

I'm not saying $30K is chump change, but it's a lot closer to that if you earn $167K a year.

mark_alfred

I think the fee to enter the Liberal leadership race was $70,000 and the Conservative race was $90,000.  The fees are partially to cover costs of renting venues for debates, promotion, organizing the voting (OMOV), etc.  And there's a longer time period for this one too, making it a more costly undertaking.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

I'd like to see leadership candidates be given the opportunity to either pay a fee or gather a set number of signatures in support of their candidacy.

Say, for example, a $10,000 fee or 25,000 signatures.

There's no good reason for the fee to be twice as high was it was when Mulcair was elected.

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
read: low and modest income people who are more likely to be too radical for the party insiders.

Uh, isn't the next leader kind of likely to be an MP or former MP who enjoyed an income over TWICE the national average?

I'm not saying $30K is chump change, but it's a lot closer to that if you earn $167K a year.

Setting the entrance fee at $30,000 because you think the likely leadership aspirants will be current and former MPs who can afford it, has a way of becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. It will skew who enters the race, and that's not a good thing.

The $30,000 entrance fee will also likely dissuade some MPs from running if they don't think they have enough support to justify spending $30,000 to enter the race.

R.E.Wood

But grassroots fundraising campaigns can generate a lot of money in support of candidates... just look at Bernie Sanders, who's raised countless millions of dollars with an average donation of just $27. 

If a candidate has the support of individuals, they'll have absolutely no problem with the entry fee. If they don't have (&/or can't get) the support of anyone, then what's the point of them wasting space on the proverbial debate stage?

quizzical

i think 30,000.00 entry fee is peanuts.

 

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

quizzical wrote:

i think 30,000.00 entry fee is peanuts.

Tell that to the 95%+ of NDP members who could never afford this entrance fee.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Very socially democratic. What exactly seperates the NDP from the LIberals these days?

quizzical

95% of NDP members, though i think the number is too high, wouldn't have any idea how to be a leader of a national party or an MP.

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

R.E.Wood wrote:

But grassroots fundraising campaigns can generate a lot of money in support of candidates... just look at Bernie Sanders, who's raised countless millions of dollars with an average donation of just $27. 

If a candidate has the support of individuals, they'll have absolutely no problem with the entry fee. If they don't have (&/or can't get) the support of anyone, then what's the point of them wasting space on the proverbial debate stage?

Once candidates pay the $30,000 an oficially join the leadership contest, they can use the platform afforded them by the contest to gain support and donations.

Prospective candidates without a pre-existing support base* won't have the ability to raise the $30,000.

*By pre existing-support bse I mena the support or lack thereof for a person becoming NDP leader, rather a more general support for them and their ideas.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:

I'd like to see leadership candidates be given the opportunity to either pay a fee or gather a set number of signatures in support of their candidacy.

Say, for example, a $10,000 fee or 25,000 signatures.

+1

radiorahim radiorahim's picture

Well if just 1,111 people kicked in $27 to their favourite candidate, their candidate could get in the race.

I smell a crowdfunding campaign.  Cool

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

quizzical wrote:

95% of NDP members, though i think the number is too high, wouldn't have any idea how to be a leader of a national party or an MP.

And you think political competence grows in direct proportion to income level? 

Why would you insult the vast majority of NDP supporters like that?

mark_alfred

alan smithee wrote:

What exactly seperates the NDP from the LIberals these days?

One thing is the leadership entry fee for the NDP race is less than half what it was for the last Liberal race.  It's $30,000 for this upcoming NDP leadership race, whereas for the last Liberal leadership race it was $75,000 (link)

quizzical

Ken Burch wrote:
quizzical wrote:
95% of NDP members, though i think the number is too high, wouldn't have any idea how to be a leader of a national party or an MP.

And you think political competence grows in direct proportion to income level? 

Why would you insult the vast majority of NDP supporters like that?

nice putting words in my mouth. never said a fkn word about competance.

do you have any idea what i think of what it takes to be a mp or leader? i'd say no.

and i go back to my point of if they don't have enough support to get 30,000.00 worth of donations how can they become PM of Canada as leader of the NDP? or if their credit is so bad they can't get a line of credit until they get supporters money then they won't win any elections either now will they?

 

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

quizzical wrote:
and i go back to my point of if they don't have enough support to get 30,000.00 worth of donations how can they become PM of Canada as leader of the NDP? or if their credit is so bad they can't get a line of credit until they get supporters money then they won't win any elections either now will they?
Some of us believe, on principle, that nobody should be turned away from running for the leadership due to lack of money.

quizzical

on principal? what principal would this be?

setting someone up for failure?

Unionist

This is a party bereft of creative ideas.

They should decree: No leadership contest until we have at least 100 contestants candidates!

That's a cool $3 million for the party coffins coffers - or else, Tom stays.

felixr

I think the entry fee should be the cost of a membership. Let them swarm the decks and lets annul the debates. There can be a first round of voting online and whoever doesn't score in double digits is cut. Everyone else goes to convention and dukes it out there the old fashioned way, with boring stump speeches and a debate. If someone wins outright on the first online vote (>50%), I think they should still face convention and IRV at convention but the alternative would be a convention where they would be coronated and the convention could be a policy conference/debate. That makes more sense for the culture of the NDP. 

As for the whole "covering costs" argument for the entry fee, that is only valid if the NDP hosts events like debates. Dump the debates and open the process to grassroots organizing :D

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

mark_alfred wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

What exactly seperates the NDP from the LIberals these days?

One thing is the leadership entry fee for the NDP race is less than half what it was for the last Liberal race.  It's $30,000 for this upcoming NDP leadership race, whereas for the last Liberal leadership race it was $75,000 (link)

Thanks for the link. But I think anyone should be able to run either with no money or at most a sizeable number of signatures in support of said candidate.

It's a lot cheaper than running for President but jacking the fee up 100% is not very socially democratic.

For example,I should be able to run regardless. I don't know about you,but I don't have $30 000 to burn. Who do you think does? Certainly not your garden variety activist.

Aristotleded24

quizzical wrote:
and i go back to my point of if they don't have enough support to get 30,000.00 worth of donations how can they become PM of Canada as leader of the NDP? or if their credit is so bad they can't get a line of credit until they get supporters money then they won't win any elections either now will they?

Because anyone with good credit can just walk into a bank or financial institute and get a $30,000 line of credit? Or someone who lost a job or got sick and whose credit suffered as a result shouldn't aspire to lead a political party?

I thought the NDP was supposed to represent the interests of the average working person. $30,000 is a lot more than some people see in one year, and even moreso for people who would be naturally inclined to support the NDP.

Stockholm

To run a serious credible campaign for the federal NDP leadership will likely take at least a million dollars. Anyone squawking about the $30,000 entry fee better prepare to raise about 30 times that amount if they plan to be a serious candidate.

Interestingly I have not seen ANY criticism of the entry fee from anyone who wants to run for the leadership - only from the useful half a dozen malcontents most of whom long ago decamped for the Socialist party of Ontario 9does that even still exist?)

Unionist

Stockholm wrote:

To run a serious credible campaign for the federal NDP leadership will likely take at least a million dollars.

These political donations and expenditures must be publicly reported, I would imagine. Does anyone have a link?

 

Stockholm

Unionist wrote:

Stockholm wrote:

To run a serious credible campaign for the federal NDP leadership will likely take at least a million dollars.

These political donations and expenditures must be publicly reported, I would imagine. Does anyone have a link?

Of course - leadership contests are regulated by elections canada and all donations have to go through the party so that people can get their 75% rebate.

Unionist

Stockholm wrote:

Unionist wrote:

Stockholm wrote:

To run a serious credible campaign for the federal NDP leadership will likely take at least a million dollars.

These political donations and expenditures must be publicly reported, I would imagine. Does anyone have a link?

Of course - leadership contests are regulated by elections canada and all donations have to go through the party so that people can get their 75% rebate.

Stockholm - just to clarify: Where can I find out which individuals contributed how much to which leadership candidate - and exactly how much each candidate spent? 

aka Mycroft

Stockholm wrote:

Unionist wrote:

Stockholm wrote:
 

To run a serious credible campaign for the federal NDP leadership will likely take at least a million dollars.

These political donations and expenditures must be publicly reported, I would imagine. Does anyone have a link?

Of course - leadership contests are regulated by elections canada and all donations have to go through the party so that people can get their 75% rebate.

Leadership campaign donations aren't eligible for rebates. Do you have a link to support  your claim?

Stockholm

Yes, they are eligible as long as they are filtered through the party. If I write a cheque to (e.g.) Boulerice c/o Canada's NDP then the party takes a cut of the donation, forwards the money to Boulerice and receipts are issued that aloow me to get the tax credit but I still cannot give more than $1,500 per year in total.

http://www.ndp.ca/news/ndp-selects-time-frame-leadership-vote

aka Mycroft

Are you sure that's legal? Bernier's campaign site doesn't mention a tax credit. 

Stockholm

Unionist wrote:

Stockholm - just to clarify: Where can I find out which individuals contributed how much to which leadership candidate - and exactly how much each candidate spent? 

We are talking about a contest that has not officially begun yet - but I assume once candidates officially register this will be searchable on the Elections Canada website just like it is for all donations. In terms of how much each candidate spends - since the party is imposing a ceiling of $1.5 million - either that will also be published by elections canada or the party will publish. In the last few party leadership contests it was a matter of public record how much debt each candidate had etc...

Unionist

Stockholm - and anyone else who knows - when I give money to the NDP (which I do), you can find my name and the amount online. Please let me know whether the same is true for contributions to NDP leadership candidates. I'm trying to make this simple.

Stockholm

aka Mycroft wrote:

Are you sure that's legal? Bernier's campaign site doesn't mention a tax credit. 

It may depend on how the parties choose to structure their contest. There are pros and cons to having a party make donations flow through the party since it comes out of the $1,500 maximum...the Tories may have decided to opt out of that system and instead not issue any receipts. i dont think its compulsory

quizzical

let me get this straight Mulcair was gotten rid of because he didn't win. but now some are advocating just any old person should be able to run for leader so the fee should be low?

what a bunch of bs. let's deal in a bit of reality here.

any old person will not be able to win and would most likely drop the NDP to NO seats.

with advocates like this the NDP needs no enemies.

 

Unionist

Quizzical - what exactly is wrong with anyone at all - anyone - being allowed to run? Members will be too stupid to figure it out and will self-destruct? If so, then what the party desperately needs is not a new leader, but new members.

quizzical

unionist, i've sat on Boards where people didn't know how to even run one or lead one. it's always a disaster. and all good intentions come to naught and the community at large lost. same thing would happen here.

why waste money and time and let anyone off the street run? i believe they wouldn't get anywhere which is why i believe it would be a waste of time and resources. they shoulda just left Mulcair in then.

and if Joe or Jane Schmoo with no experience won then the stupidity of the NDP membership wouldn't matter or be up for debate. the party would go down to nothing.

 

 

 

Unionist

Because I think the leadership thing is overrated - and toxic to real democracy - I'm inclined to agree with you, quizzical. And I don't understand why they're getting rid of Mulcair - other than revenge.

quizzical

i lean egalitarian and don't agree with the leadership syndrome but the most of the world currently does. the reality is we have to function in it.

i got no time for counterproductive sentiments.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I thought electing Mulcair was going to lead to electoral disaster and it did.  The problem is not the fees it is the process that will last for a year and a half. It will be impossible to keep up interest in this marathon and the amount of money to fight a leadership campaign lasting that long is ridiculous. 

CanadaApple

$30,000 seems a bit high, especially since it was only $15,000 the last time and that was only four years ago. 

felixr

-

Caissa

I have a spare $30 k kicking around.Undecided

mark_alfred

Unionist wrote:

Stockholm - and anyone else who knows - when I give money to the NDP (which I do), you can find my name and the amount online. Please let me know whether the same is true for contributions to NDP leadership candidates. I'm trying to make this simple.

Stockholm did give the site to look for this, which is elections.ca.  Anyway, political donations with the donor's name are listed, and donations to leadership campaigns are considered political donations.  Here's a link to a list of donations from the last Liberal leadership:  link

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

[url=https://you.leadnow.ca/petitions/open-up-the-ndp-leadership-race-drop-th... Open up the NDP Leadership race, drop the outrageous entry fee.[/url]

Quote:

To: NDP President Marit Stiles, and Federal Council of the New Democratic Party

Please reconsider your decision to set a high financial barrier to enter the NDP leadership race.

To ensure renewal can take place consider making some of the following changes to the entrance fees:

1) Make it a requirement for Candidates to show they have raised $30,000 - but don't take it away from their campaigns. Let them spend it on outreach, volunteers, and communications materials.

2) Lower the initial administrative fee to $5,000

3) Impose a progressive administrative tax on all donations collected so that those candidates who raise lots of money and are able to afford to pay more, give more back.

Why is this important?

Despite being well meaning as a fundraising tool, this high entry fee actually risks preventing donors and assets from entering the process. It makes the party less accessible and will have the inevitable effect of shrinking the pool of candidates.

After such a disappointing 2015 loss the overwhelming majority of NDP supporters are looking for deep party renewal. Nearly every candidate elected at convention promised renewal and a commitment to stronger engagement with communities outside the NDP.

While successful candidates for leadership must raise lots of funds, at their core leadership races should not singularly be about money.

They are about ideas and the hard work of rebuilding a party. Having such a large filing fee will stop outside candidates that could be incredibly helpful in signing up members, having conversations and doing the hard work of engaging the base at the doorstep and in the community.

Let's open up the process and invite a diversity of ideas, and campaign tactics into the debate, we have nothing to lose and everything to gain from opening up the process.

Geoff

I don't recall a similar plea being made by lead.now when the Liberals were electing their last leader. I love the idea that no money and a lttle more more kumbaya will win the next election for us, but honestly, I don't see anything coming from it.