Are Trudeau’s Sarcastic Comments to Female Indigenous Protestor at Liberal Fund-Raiser the Final Nail in his Political Coffin?

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NorthReport
Are Trudeau’s Sarcastic Comments to Female Indigenous Protestor at Liberal Fund-Raiser the Final Nail in his Political Coffin?

Just askin’ as Trudeau dropped his mask Wednesday, March 27, 2019 in the evening at a $1,500 a plate Liberal Fund-Raiser, and now all Canadians are afforded an opportunity to see what Justin Trudeau is really all about, and it is definitely not pretty.

NorthReport

Opposition lashes out at ‘arrogant’ Trudeau after he thanks First Nations protesters for donations

'Thank you very much for your donation tonight,' Trudeau told protesters from Grassy Narrows First Nation at a high-end Liberal Party fundraiser

 

 Prime Minister Justin Trudeau came under withering criticism Thursday after a sarcastic put down of a protester highlighting mercury poisoning in a First Nations community.

Trudeau offered a swift apology for his lack of respect, but his comments at a high-end Liberal fundraising event on Wednesday drew widespread condemnation.

“Trudeau’s apology rings hollow while our people are suffering without the care and support that we need,” said Rudy Turtle, the chief of the Grassy Narrows First Nation, the northern Ontario community suffering the impact from mercury poisoning.

Perry Bellegarde, chief of the Assembly of First Nations, said the prime minister’s comments were “completely unacceptable and offensive,” and called on Trudeau to visit the affected communities in order to “see the impacts of the mercury contamination firsthand.”

Last night I lacked respect towards them and I apologize for that

 

Trudeau apologized after a video surfaced of him making a snide remark to protester Lana Goldberg after she unfurled a banner in front of the prime minister as he addressed a $1,500-a-ticket fundraiser in Toronto.

“Prime Minister Trudeau, people at Grassy Narrows are suffering from mercury poisoning,” she said.

As she was dragged out, the prime minister said, “Thank you very much for your donation tonight. I really appreciate it,” drawing applause and laughter from the audience.

On Thursday, Trudeau apologized for his comments to the protester and to the broader First Nations community.

“From time to time I’m in situations where people are expressing concerns or protesting a particular thing, and I always try to be respectful and I always try to engage with them in a positive way,” Trudeau told reporters in Halifax.

“Last night I lacked respect towards them and I apologize for that.”

Any funds that the protesters contributed in order to gain access to the event would be refunded, he added.

“They wanted to express their concerns about an issue and I do take that seriously and I apologize to them.”

“I’ve never seen him give that kind of cynical or shut-down response,” said Mark Calzavara, a member of the advocacy group Council of Canadians, who captured the comments on his phone. Calzavara was also raising awareness about the First Nations community.

Opposition members of parliament blasted Trudeau’s comments as being flippant, saying it contradicted the Liberal government’s carefully crafted brand of reconciliatory and progressive politics.

“What a smug, mean, aloof ass,” NDP MP Charlie Angus said on Twitter.

Conservative MP Michelle Rempel called Trudeau “smug” and “arrogant.”

NDP leader Jagmeet Singh tweeted, “Instead of showing respect for people fighting for clean water & funding, Trudeau sides with his rich donors to get a laugh.”

Grassy Narrows has been suffering from mercury poisoning in its local water supply for decades, after an upstream pulp and paper mill dumped thousands of pounds of effluent into the English-Wabigoon river system through the 60s and early 70s.

https://nationalpost.com/news/smug-arrogant-opposition-lashes-out-against-trudeau-after-he-thanks-first-nations-protestors-for-their-liberal-party-donations

NorthReport

Justin Trudeau made a smug remark to a protester. It’s hard to recover from that

 

Not since Laureen Harper told an Indigenous rights protester at a cat video festival in 2014, “Tonight we’re here for homeless cats” has a member of the Canadian political establishment screwed up so badly in the face of an ordinary person wanting to be heard.

In case you don’t know what I’m talking about because you’re too absorbed in the Prime Minister’s other scandal (hint: it starts with an S and ends with an N), let me explain: Justin Trudeau was speaking at an event at a luxury Toronto hotel Wednesday night when a protester holding a large banner interrupted him.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau talks to media in St. Stephen, N.B., Thursday. He apologized Thursday for a remark made Wednesday night.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau talks to media in St. Stephen, N.B., Thursday. He apologized Thursday for a remark made Wednesday night.  (STEPHEN MACGILLIVRAY / THE CANADIAN PRESS)

People in Grassy Narrows are suffering from mercury poisoning,” she called out, referencing the fact that people in Grassy Narrows — an Ontario First Nation — are indeed suffering from mercury poisoning because in the 1960s a paper company began polluting the river there. Many maintain, this protester included, that the government response to the crisis has been abysmally slow and insufficient. “You committed to addressing this crisis,” the protester said. But before she could continue, security approached her and escorted her away. And as they did the PM spoke.

“Thank you for your donation tonight,” he said. “I really appreciate it.”

It was in every way, the public speaking equivalent of kicking somebody when they’re already down.

And yet, laughter and applause followed — not from the protesters who presumably don’t think there’s anything funny about government inability to address a poisoning crisis, but from audience members who paid handsomely to be there, and whose experience with mercury poisoning is most likely limited to reading in a magazine that you can get it if you eat too much sushi.

Today they are eating their applause for a PM who is in apology mode.

Read more:

Trudeau apologizes for sarcastically dismissing Grassy Narrows demonstrators at Liberal fundraiser in Toronto

Grassy Narrows chief questions delay on promised mercury testing

You might be interested in

‘I started to have seizures at the age of 2.’ Ontario residents describe the ravages of mercury exposure

The backlash to Trudeau’s sarcastic response was swift from every source: from activists, from conservative voices on social media (who surprise, surprise, suddenly seem to have a vested interest in environmental protections), and from regular people of all stripes.

On Thursday, the PM apologized before the press. In his own words:

“As I think you all know from time to time I’m in situations where people are expressing concerns or protesting a particular thing and I always try to be respectful and always try to engage with them in a positive way. That’s how I believe a democracy should function and I didn’t do that last night. Last night I lacked respect towards them and I apologize for that.”

Trudeau said he’d reimburse the protesters for the donation they made that granted them access to the fundraiser and he announced plans to revisit the Grassy Narrows crisis with his staff.

It seems like the least he can do but hopefully it produces some positive change (in this lifetime) for the protesters who told him off.

None of this, however, is positive for Justin Trudeau, a man heading into an election, whose approval rating, according to a new Ipsos poll conducted for Global News, has dipped below U.S. president Donald Trump’s. After this week’s events I won’t be surprised if we see another dip.

Laureen Harper’s response (“That’s a great cause but that’s another night ... tonight we’re here for homeless cats”) to a protester who wanted to know why she appeared to care more about felines than she did about missing and murdered Indigenous women was inappropriate. But it wasn’t smug.

On Wednesday night Trudeau was smug. To be precise, he was as smug as they come.

And it’s hard to recover from smug. In fact, much like a cat, once “smug” is out of the bag — you can’t stuff it back in. Once people see it on your face and hear it in your voice, they have a hard time seeing and hearing anything else when they look at you. And unlike SNC-Lavalin — a scandal that is complicated — “Smug PM” is very simple.

This could be Justin Trudeau’s Mitt Romney moment.

In 2012 in advance of the US presidential election, American magazine Mother Jones released surreptitiously recorded footage of Romney talking about Democratic voters in disparaging terms.

Romney says in the recording: “There are 47 per cent who are with him [Obama], who are dependent upon government…My job is not to worry about those people. I’ll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.”

Romney never recovered from this incident, not only because it obliterated his nice guy disguise, but because his opponents ensured that everywhere you looked, there it was: that recording, online, on TV, and in your head.

From now until October, prepare to watch Justin Trudeau being smug again and again and again. Christmas has come early for Andrew Scheer. Meanwhile, the people of Grassy Narrows wait.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/2019/03/28/justin-trudeau-made-a-smug-remark-to-a-protester-its-hard-to-recover-from-that.html?li_source=LI&li_medium=star_web_ymbii

WWWTT

“Thank you for your donation tonight,” he said. “I really appreciate it.”

What a fuckin bastard this asshole is!

Im 99% sure this is dickface’s first and last term as pm.  

He’s a real piece of fucking shit. Makes Harper look like a saint.  This fucking clown has no business representing Canada!

Total garbage human being!!!!!!

Paladin1

The PMs comments, his attitude, tone of voice and bearing during that exchance is an excellent window into seeing who he really is. Past all the sunny ways and femminist and FN bestie posturing bullshit.

A woman from a reserve that's suffering from serious mercury  poisoning. What's his reaction? To make a joke at her expense infront of all his $1500 a plate donars. Lots of laughs.

 

There's your real Justin Trudeau. He behaves like that because he knows he can get away with it.

Sean in Ottawa

WWWTT wrote:

Makes Harper look like a saint. 

No. Don't even think that CPC spin.

NorthReport

Agreed!

Sean in Ottawa

Was Trudeau's comment sarcastic?

I ask becuase I am faced with another possibility. Could he have been that stupid as to not realize the context he was speaking in.

I am increasingly wondering how much of what Trudeau does is accidental. hapless, so incompetent that we try to ascribe motive where there is only stupidity. Could he have been so gobsmackingly dumb as to think thanking her was a good and nice idea?

I really wish I could rule that out.

How do we know how much of any achievement this government has had actually came from the brain of Trudeau and not people around him? How can we presume that he makes the most basic connections?

Is his speaking poor or is it actually good and just a reflection of a really incapable mind?

WWWTT

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

WWWTT wrote:

Makes Harper look like a saint. 

No. Don't even think that CPC spin.

Comment was never intended to be any sort of pro Harper spin. Just using Harper as a water mark or standard. And Justin is way below it!

WWWTT

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Was Trudeau's comment sarcastic?

I ask becuase I am faced with another possibility. Could he have been that stupid as to not realize the context he was speaking in.

I am increasingly wondering how much of what Trudeau does is accidental. hapless, so incompetent that we try to ascribe motive where there is only stupidity. Could he have been so gobsmackingly dumb as to think thanking her was a good and nice idea?

I really wish I could rule that out.

How do we know how much of any achievement this government has had actually came from the brain of Trudeau and not people around him? How can we presume that he makes the most basic connections?

Is his speaking poor or is it actually good and just a reflection of a really incapable mind?

Obviously Justin's stupidity is a huge part of it. You could be right in this comment you're making? Sounds like a bit of both. But either way, this corporate circus freek has to go! 

Someone who is prone to make such comments is not fit to represent this country!

NorthReport

Trudeau may not be well. If so, it would probably be kept secret, unfortunately.

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Was Trudeau's comment sarcastic?

I ask becuase I am faced with another possibility. Could he have been that stupid as to not realize the context he was speaking in.

I am increasingly wondering how much of what Trudeau does is accidental. hapless, so incompetent that we try to ascribe motive where there is only stupidity. Could he have been so gobsmackingly dumb as to think thanking her was a good and nice idea?

I really wish I could rule that out.

How do we know how much of any achievement this government has had actually came from the brain of Trudeau and not people around him? How can we presume that he makes the most basic connections?

Is his speaking poor or is it actually good and just a reflection of a really incapable mind?

voice of the damned

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Was Trudeau's comment sarcastic?

Depends what you mean by sarcasm. He wasn't saying rhe polar opposite of what he believed, since he probably was happy that the protestors had put money in the Liberal coffers by buying a ticket.

But he wasn't seriously thanking them. He was just pointing out the supposed irony of them paying what I understand to be a hefty bit of cash for the purpose of listening to a speech by someone they don't like.

According to wiki, Gary Gygax, the founder of Dungeons and Dragons, while discussing fundamentalist Xtians who bought DND manuals for the purpose of burning them, shrugged it off with "Thank you for the purchase, feel free to do whatever you want with them now." Trudeau's comments were along those lines, though obviously in a more sombre, arguably inappropriate, context.

 

Misfit Misfit's picture

I think that he is entitled, narcissistic and shallow. This is the real Justin Trudeau st play when he is not speaking from carefully scripted and rehearsed lines.

remember him saying that Russia was going to invade Ukraine because they lost a game in Olympic hockey. The spin after the fact was that it was just a joke and Ttudeau just trying to be funny. But during the comment his face was dead serious.

He has made a lot of bone  head gaffes and I am actually pleasantly surprised that he had been very carefully scrutinized since the last election and has kept that down to a minimum.

i also wonder if Gerald Butts played a strong role in containing JT’s verbal diarrhea and now that he resigned that we will see more of this surface publicly.

Article

voice of the damned

And to answer the question in the OP...

No. It'll be like Trump's pro-military supporters, the kind of people who normally wail about Democrats disrespecting "the troops", who nevertheless managed to laugh it off when their draft-dodging hero made fun of John McCain for getting shot down in Vietnam. 

 

Pogo Pogo's picture

You have to allow anyone a moment of weakness.  I think though that there is a pattern emerging...  

swallow swallow's picture

There is a pattern of utter contempt emerging. As Romeo Saganash says, we can see that JT really doesn't give a fuck for Indigenous people. 

Liberal partisans, of course, will simply respond "Andrew Scheer is worse!" 

NorthReport

Bingo!

NorthReport

Justin Trudeau’s treatment of an Indigenous protester reminds us of what’s worth being truly angry about

https://www.thestar.com/politics/political-opinion/2019/03/29/justin-trudeau-reminds-us-of-whats-worth-being-truly-angry-about.html

NorthReport

The damage that Trudeau has created here is mind-boggling!

 

‘Trudeau’s apology rings hollow:’ Grassy Narrows chief rejects apology, calls for long-term mercury treatment funding

A new mercury treatment facility lags behind schedule, while Grassy Narrows said it has only received 1 per cent of the required funding

Rudy Turtle, chief of the Grassy Narrows First Nation in northwestern Ontario, is seen here on the reserve on Friday, May 18, 2018.Colin Perkel / The Canadian Press

Jesse Snyder
Jesse Snyder

March 29, 2019
12:44 PM EDT

 

 

 

OTTAWA — The chief of the Grassy Narrows First Nation has rejected an apology from Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, saying Ottawa needs to put its promised funding for a mercury poisoning treatment centre into a trust in order to ensure the money will be available over the long term.

“Trudeau’s apology rings hollow while our people are suffering without the care and support that we need,” Grassy Narrows Chief Rudy Turtle said in a written response to the National Post.

Trudeau apologized to Grassy Narrows after a video surfaced of the prime minister telling protestor Lana Goldberg “thank you very much for your donation” in response to her interruption of a high-end Liberal Party fundraiser Wednesday, where she was raising awareness about the First Nations community.

Grassy Narrows has been suffering from mercury poisoning in its local water supply for decades, after an upstream pulp and paper mill dumped thousands of pounds of effluent into the English-Wabigoon river system through the ’60s and early ’70s. Goldberg was representing an advocacy group called Free Grassy Narrows, which aims to help the community secure a long-term care facility for patients of mercury poisonings.

https://nationalpost.com/news/trudeaus-apology-rings-hollow-grassy-narrows-chief-rejects-apology-calls-for-long-term-mercury-treatment-funding

    contrarianna

    WWWTT wrote:

    Sean in Ottawa wrote:

    WWWTT wrote:

    Makes Harper look like a saint. 

    No. Don't even think that CPC spin.

    Comment was never intended to be any sort of pro Harper spin. Just using Harper as a water mark or standard. And Justin is way below it!

    Way below the standard? As vile as the idiot Trudeau is, I'm glad to be an atheist with a memory--no votive candles from me for Saint Stephen:

    Harper, Serial Abuser of Power:   The Evidence Compiled  The Tyee’s full, updated list of 70 Harper government assaults on democracy and the law.

    By David Beers and Tyee Staff and Contributors 10 Aug 2015 | TheTyee.

    https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2015/08/10/Harper-Abuses-of-Power-Final/

     

    voice of the damned

    From the Tyee's list of Harperite assaults on democracy...

    Harper’s Own MPs Protest Muzzling

    In a caucus known for his tight discipline, in 2014 some members finally rose up to contest being censored at question period by the Prime Minister’s Office. Former Conservative backbencher Brent Rathgeber turned independent and published a book, Irresponsible Government, decrying anti-democratic practices.

    Doing the research, it seems that the "muzzling" was against "pro-life" Conservative backbenchers, who were prevented from introducing anti-abortion motions in the House. Trudeau accomplished basically the same thing, and probably more thoroughly, by forbidding anyone from running as a Liberal who was not commited to abortion remaining completely legal.

    Neither of which is particularly undemocratic. Anyone can still run as an anti-abortion candidate, they just can't do so with the backing of the Liberal Party. And Conservative backbenchers who still want to ride their favorite hobby-horse are free to cross the floor and sit with another party, or as independents.

    Sean in Ottawa

    contrarianna wrote:

    WWWTT wrote:

    Sean in Ottawa wrote:

    WWWTT wrote:

    Makes Harper look like a saint. 

    No. Don't even think that CPC spin.

    Comment was never intended to be any sort of pro Harper spin. Just using Harper as a water mark or standard. And Justin is way below it!

    Way below the standard? As vile as the idiot Trudeau is, I'm glad to be an atheist with a memory--no votive candles from me for Saint Stephen:

    Harper, Serial Abuser of Power:   The Evidence Compiled  The Tyee’s full, updated list of 70 Harper government assaults on democracy and the law.

    By David Beers and Tyee Staff and Contributors 10 Aug 2015 | TheTyee.

    https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2015/08/10/Harper-Abuses-of-Power-Final/

     

    No -- you cannot easily get below Harper. Trudeau may not be much better but he does not make Harper look like a good guy. And a saint? Do you have amnesia?

    Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

    swallow wrote:

    There is a pattern of utter contempt emerging. As Romeo Saganash says, we can see that JT really doesn't give a fuck for Indigenous people. 

    Liberal partisans, of course, will simply respond "Andrew Scheer is worse!" 

    The response to which is "Trudeau and Scheer aren't the ONLY options, y'know!"

    Sean in Ottawa

    Ken Burch wrote:

    swallow wrote:

    There is a pattern of utter contempt emerging. As Romeo Saganash says, we can see that JT really doesn't give a fuck for Indigenous people. 

    Liberal partisans, of course, will simply respond "Andrew Scheer is worse!" 

    The response to which is "Trudeau and Scheer aren't the ONLY options, y'know!"

    Liberal partisans understand the playbook -- when their party has screwed up and is being rejected point to the worst option and claim to be better to save yourself.

    quizzical

    you read it wrong Sean 

    Sean in Ottawa

    quizzical wrote:

    you read it wrong Sean 

    Read what wrong? How is my comment wrong? I have seen them do this all my life -- every election when they are in trouble the point to the Conservatives and tell the NDP voters vote for us or you get that.

    How is that wrong?

    Hint: not every comment is a disagreement with the post it is quoting.

    jerrym

    Sean in Ottawa wrote:

    Was Trudeau's comment sarcastic?

    I ask becuase I am faced with another possibility. Could he have been that stupid as to not realize the context he was speaking in.

    I am increasingly wondering how much of what Trudeau does is accidental. hapless, so incompetent that we try to ascribe motive where there is only stupidity. Could he have been so gobsmackingly dumb as to think thanking her was a good and nice idea?

    Is his speaking poor or is it actually good and just a reflection of a really incapable mind?

    Whether he was being sarcastic or stupid, this incident goes a long way towards saying he should not continue to be PM.

    NorthReport

    The commentary on the CBC right now, attempting to justify Trudeau's behaviour, and attack JWR and Philpott, makes one want to vomit.

    NorthReport

    Just curious -  is the Grassy Narrows area represented in Parliament by Charlie Angus? 

    Sean in Ottawa

    NorthReport wrote:

    Just curious -  is the Grassy Narrows area represented in Parliament by Charlie Angus? 

    Not yet I don't think. Presently the seat I think is Kenora held by Bob Nault of the Liberals.

    NorthReport

    Thanks. 

    Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

    It may not have been a mistake on Justin's part.   It may have been, in part, a coded appeal to the sort of Western Canadian "macho man" types, the ones who live under the delusion that FN people are on a gravy train and that anything done for FN communities is somehow a theft from what the macho men are entitled to.  

    Yes, he apologized-but a day later, after letting it stand for a full 24-hour news cycle.   

    And it tracks with a long pattern of making tiny gestures of "reconciliation" towards FN, alternating with heavy-handed public shows of "putting them in their place".

    It would not surprise me if PET advised his son, were he ever to go into politics and become party leader that, in order to avoid the Liberal wipeout in most of the West that PET experienced in 1979 and 1980 Justin would sometimes need to show a mean streak towards FN and social activists just to reassure the "Western resentment" types that he was on their side when it came right down to it.

     

    Pondering

    Misfit wrote:

    I think that he is entitled, narcissistic and shallow. This is the real Justin Trudeau st play when he is not speaking from carefully scripted and rehearsed lines.

    remember him saying that Russia was going to invade Ukraine because they lost a game in Olympic hockey. The spin after the fact was that it was just a joke and Ttudeau just trying to be funny. But during the comment his face was dead serious.

    You think he seriously thought that Russia was going to invade based on losing a game? He was joking. In this latest case he wasn't thinking and he was flippant. He has a dry sense of humor. 

    In my opinion he doesn't think fast on his feet which is not a sign of low intelligence. 

    He is a man of his class so yes he has a sense of entitlement. I don't think he is particularly narcissistic. The protester had to pay to get into the event so he thought it was funny that someone who opposes him contributed 1,500.00 to his war chest so he said thanks for the donation before realizing it was inappropriate due to the particular nature of the protest. If the protester was protesting Trudeau's welcoming of refugees we probably wouldn't hear much about it. 

     

    WWWTT

    @ contrarianna and Sean in Ottawa

    Ya I disagree with both of you. There’s nothing you can post that’ll change my mind either because I also remember what Harper and the conservatives did when in power. 

    Two things to keep in mind. This is an argument we wouldn’t be having 2 years ago and Harper isn’t coming back. The only people that want Harper to come back are the liberals, especially Justin!

    Sean in Ottawa

    WWWTT wrote:

    @ contrarianna and Sean in Ottawa

    Ya I disagree with both of you. There’s nothing you can post that’ll change my mind either because I also remember what Harper and the conservatives did when in power. 

    Two things to keep in mind. This is an argument we wouldn’t be having 2 years ago and Harper isn’t coming back. The only people that want Harper to come back are the liberals, especially Justin!

    Your two things to consider are completely irrelevant to a comparison.

    It is nice to be so well protected by arrogance that nothing will ever change your mind. Clarifies that you are here to write but not read (except to retort). At least that is similar to many here.

    Another point about the whole saint thing is that a person -- even if they are worse (which I do not concede in this case) does not make the problems of the other go away. Like a murderer does not make a bank robber a saint.

    Harper did not make Mulroney a saint (or if you wish the reverse).

    The comparison between Trudeau and Harper is really quite bogus anyway. They were each bad in different ways. I will concede that on some issues Trudeau is worse but on others it is Harper who is worse. The whole point of measuring is largely a waste when you consider that both are truly awful.

    I am not interested in contrasting Harper and Trudeau on specific as that is exactly the proposition that the Liberals would like us to do. They think we should reward their awful party and shitty leader with re-election if we measure Trudeau one iota better than Harper. The comparison that is valid is against the options available at the time and the most important time is now.

    Trudeau compares badly agaisnt Singh in my opinion

    Trudeau compares badly against Mulcair in my opinion

    Harper compared badly agaisnt Layton and Mulcair in my opinion

    I really could not care very much how the two awfuyl options that were not the best ones available compare against each other.

     

    WWWTT

    Are you done yet Sean in Ottawa? Technically, a saint is a term used in the catholic christian religion for followers who have passed away at least decades (probably centuries) ago whom apparently created some kind of miracle or heroic virtue. Some are even mythical angels and or people who probably never even existed such as sao Miguel or in English saint Michael, the arch angel who fought lucifer and driven him and his followers to hell (or something along those lines). 

    What Harper did is done and can’t be changed. But Justin is still pm, and still digging his grave. I don’t think you really “get” that part

    As a side note, I don’t think the catholic church in Rome has received any requests to canonize Harper yet? 

    But you better be on the safe side Sean in Ottawa, write the Vatican a letter in protest!

    Misfit Misfit's picture

    Sean,

    please don’t respond to the above post. You explained yourself  appropriately already. Nothing more needs to be clarified.

    swallow swallow's picture
    Pondering

    When we say someone is a saint compared to it doesn't mean the person is a saint. It means the opposite. If they were a saint there would be no reason to add compared to.  It just means the other option is even worse. I think I have read you acknowledging the Liberals as better than the Conservatives although that is faint praise as it doesn't take much to be better than the Conservatives. 

    That is always an argument for strategic voting, to vote Liberal lest the Conservatives win, and that is a valid argument though not the only consideration.

    I would not vote Liberal for fear of the Conservatives winning unless I were in a riding with a race between Conservatives and Liberals. Fortunately I am not in that situation so I can vote NDP with a clear conscience. 

    Fears are rising that the Conservatives could be back in power as a result of Trudeau's SNC problem. I don't think that will happen but it brings us to the issue of strategic voting which is so detrimental to the NDPs fortunes. 

    If progressive people vote Liberal to stop the Conservatives then the more progressive party, the NDP, can never win. 

    The NDP isn't even all that progressive. They are saints compared to the Liberals and Conservatives but they are far from a radical party. They are still a centrist party. 

    The Liberals and Conservatives are not "the same" but their differences are small. The Liberals do showy stuff that is more progressive than the Conservatives (and is good like a gender balanced cabinet) but they are easily still just as corporate friendly and that is where the battle line is. 

    After 10 years of Harper it was easy to see Trudeau as a relief, he is nicer, but he is a nicer neoliberal not a progressive. 

    Neoliberalism isn't even up for discussion. Progressiveness is almost solely defined from a social perspective so in that regard Trudeau is referred to as a progressive. He only had to do a little better on social issues than Harper to hold the progressive mantle. 

    It's a right wing dream. Our two main parties are both dedicated neoliberalists. The Liberals are just a little less free market. 

    If we say we must vote Liberal to stop the Conservatives then we are trading the possibility of genuine progress in exchange for supporting nicer neoliberalism.  

    The orange wave led to 10 years of Harper but it also led to the NDP becoming a much more serious contender longterm even though their numbers are back down. Notley's win has also burnished the NDP even if she loses this time around. 

    We can't tell the future. Maybe the Liberals and Conservatives will continue trading power back and forth for the next 50 years but it is certain that they will if we don't support the NDP for fear of the Conservatives winning. 

    If the Conservatives win they will be a bit meaner to women and LGBTQ but we now know they will not reverse gay marriage rights or pass abortion laws. They will nibble at the edges to try to please their base but won't deal any fatal blows. That is still a negative for the people impacted but it pales in comparison to the damage done by neoliberalism. 

    The only hope we have of tackling even the edges of neoliberalism is through the NDP. 

     

    WWWTT

    Misfit wrote:

    Sean,

    please don’t respond to the above post. You explained yourself  appropriately already. Nothing more needs to be clarified.

    John Baird!

    Take all the time you want to think about this person.