Bob Rae on the comments of NDP Deputy Leader Libby Davies on the State of Israel

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writer writer's picture
Bob Rae on the comments of NDP Deputy Leader Libby Davies on the State of Israel

Quote:
"The appropriate decision, given her stature and responsibilities with the NDP, is for Mr. Layton to ask for her resignation as Deputy Leader and for Ms. Davies to issue an apology to all Canadians. Nothing short of that will do." — Bob Rae, MP, 613-992-5234, 416-954-2222, [email]raeb@parl.gc.ca[/email]

[url=http://us1.campaign-archive1.com/?u=b71b47a81da6e7d67dc2f2074&id=cdffd35... statement[/url]

Issues Pages: 
Catchfire Catchfire's picture

What a monster. It is rants like this which render clear how much this country needs Libby Davies. And any other federal parliamentarian with the courage to stand up against injustice and edge Canada towards the right side of history.

Caissa

I wonder who provided him with his talking points...

Unionist

Catchfire wrote:

What a monster. It is rants like this which render clear how much this country needs Libby Davies. And any other federal parliamentarian with the courage to stand up against injustice and edge Canada towards the right side of history.

What nouns and adjectives will we use when Jack Layton heeds this sage advice?

Caissa wrote:
I wonder who provided him with his talking points...

You mean, besides Tom Mulcair?

-=+=-

Grrrrrr.....Yell

Unionist

Oh, wait a minute - I know what happens next - Libby resigns as Deputy Leader, and Jack accepts her resignation with much regret but understanding why she had to do it!

I thought Jack was going to have to fire her, but that's a much neater solution, isn't it?

Her letter of apology to the Ottawa Citizen is what unfortunately triggered my thought that she is getting tired of holding up this banner alone.

Listen up: I posted a comment to her website last night, supporting her, saying she had nothing to apologize for, pleading with her to stand firm and carry on the good fight. The comments on her site are pre-moderated. My comment has not yet appeared. All we see are the [url=http://libbydavies.ca/news/update/2010/06/11/libbys-response-inflamatory... 7 frenzied Israel cheerleaders[/url] that were there last night.

That's why I'm afraid she's getting ready to bolt. Please, please, anyone who knows her or cares for her courageous actions, write to her, phone her, tell her she must continue! If Layton wants to fire her to suckhole to Harper and Rae, let him have to bear the sole responsibility for such a heinous act.

ottawaobserver

Layton defended her in the Commons during Question Period, and she was sitting right behind him in the camera shot clapping.  For your information.

George Victor

quote: "What nouns and adjectives will we use when Jack Layton heeds this sage advice?"

What could possibly be left in Robin Hood's quiver?

Why the histrionics?

Unionist

So, OO and George, will we be supporting Libby against these attacks? Or cutting her loose? I think it's time for people to take a stand. Life presents us with critical moments like these. Talk about her, please, not about me. Thanks.

6079_Smith_W

Unionist wrote:

Listen up: I posted a comment to her website last night, supporting her, saying she had nothing to apologize for, pleading with her to stand firm and carry on the good fight. The comments on her site are pre-moderated. My comment has not yet appeared. All we see are the [url=http://libbydavies.ca/news/update/2010/06/11/libbys-response-inflamatory... 7 frenzied Israel cheerleaders[/url] that were there last night.

That is distressing - seriously.

See what I mean about censoring some sites  - especially those of public figures - not being a good idea? At the very least they should have put the name of the poster and said that it was removed. That way at least you could see numbers.

ottawaobserver

I think it's time we didn't let ourselves get drawn in to these kinds of set-ups ... from either side.

Apparently the video blogger was interviewing people in an effort to trip them up ... what happened to Helen Thomas as well.

This is becoming a common tactic of the conservative movement, and will be employed heavily at the G8/G20 protests, I predict.  They will have a keen market for their video with the new 'Fox North' Sun TV News channel, should it receive a licence from the CRTC, I'm betting as well.

George Victor

You make it very difficult to avoid mention of yourself, U.  Libby is of course the honest one. But can you honestly say, at this point, that she is not wishing she had not been drawn out on Israeli history? 

No, you can't say that, because you don't know. So ease up on the histrionics.  And enough of the bullshit attempts to demonize those who don't join your rant.  That's schoolroom politics.

writer writer's picture

I see an overwhelmed staff, rather than censoring, in this Unionist. I imagine they also get some time off work, believe it or not. Maybe they slept last night!

I've just shot a letter off to Rae, Davies, Layton and Mulcair. I've also posted about this on my FB status - which is why I learned about Rae's drivel. And I've posted to Libby's fan page there - once you join, you can post freely. No moderation on the front end. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Libby-Davies/7154945923

Here's the letter I emailed. I encourage others to make contact, as Unionist suggests.

Quote:
Bob Rae, you are my MP. You do not speak for me. Your demand for Libby Davies' resignation sickens me.

No wonder we have so few women in the House. This kind of mean-hearted, hateful and reactionary venom will remind those on the margins that the political machine is no place for them. Well done. Please, the next time you are invited to speak about reinvigorating democracy, take a pass.

At this moment in history, too few politicians in the West honestly acknowledge the plight of the Palestinian people. Libby Davies is one of the few.

She got a few facts wrong in one recorded speech. But her insistence in standing with the oppressed, the dispossessed, the marginalized, the humiliated, the ignored is right. Is inspiring. Is desperately needed. Is where the NDP should be, or it shouldn't be at all.

Thank you, Libby Davies. Jack Layton, show that you are a leader. Stand strongly beside the courageous, just, thoughtful, kind, committed Libby Davies. Stand on the right side of history.

Let Bob Rae stand without you.

Toronto Centre resident

Addresses: Bob Rae [email]Rae.B@parl.gc.ca[/email] and/or [email]raeb@parl.gc.ca[/email] Jack Layton [email]Layton.J@parl.gc.ca[/email] Libby Davies [email]daviel@parl.gc.ca[/email] Thomas Mulcair [email]mulcat@parl.gc.ca[/email]

Pogo Pogo's picture

I (like Jack Layton) am supporting Libby.

 

Here is the letter I sent Bob Rae:

 

"Hon. Bob Rae,

Dear Sir, 

 

I am not a big follower on the Middle East, but even I can tell that Libby Davis comments in no way questioned Israel existence or it's right to existence.  Clearly she is referring to the Palestinian land that Israel has taken in addition to its own sovereign territory.  For someone as knowledgeable on foreign affairs as yourself to make these comments makes me wonder about why you are willing to twist another persons words into such lies.

 

I do hope to see a public apology to Libby Davis in the very near future."

 

 

Stockholm

This is the same Bob Rae that some people still swoon over as some sort of interlocutor between the Liberals and the NDP. Anyone who knows him knows that he is the single greatest obstacle to any cooperation between the NDP and the Liberals because he has such a personal hatred of everyone in the NDP and the feeling is entirely mutual.

ottawaobserver

I think the left is going to have to prepare itself for this next onslaught, and stick together a bit better.  The tiniest slip-up is going to get blown out of all proportion, and suck all the oxygen out of debate on issues we care about.

writer writer's picture

"Some people's" position on a merger / collaboration / coalition has nothing to do with this thread. Are you able to can the message-botism and actually participate in the thread's focus? Or stay out? Please?

Maysie Maysie's picture

Hey Stockholm, Bob Rae is writer's MP. He's mine too. That's icky but that's life. That's who we're writing to. Also, he's the doofus who made the asinine comment about Libby resigning which she should NOT.

And stay on topic, Stockholm.

George, calling the response of some babblers "histrionics" is not okay. Using that same word to describe Unionist specifically is also not okay. Stop. Debate the points, the issues, etc.

Stockholm

I'm being 100% on topic. I think Bob rae is an asshole. I've always thought he was an asshole. I think this is the latest example of how his first instinct to launch a histrionic, gratuitous attack on Libby davies because she's deputy leader of the party he hates with all his heart. If she were Liberal, he wouldn't give a hoot about what she said and wouldn't be trying to totally distort her comments in such a self-serving way.

I can think of a long list of reasons why Bob Rae should resign from Parliament and apologize to all Canadians for the damage he has personally wreaked on the Canadian body politic.

writer writer's picture

Thanks, Stockholm. This second post is on topic.

Unionist

And thanks for publishing the text of your letter, writer. I see why they call you writer.

Anyway, this thread title has been way bypassed by history. Harper has demanded that Libby be fired. So have the Friends of Wiesenthal. Mulcair has demanded she "apologize" for supporting BDS (which she didn't actually even support in the interview).

Sorry to be a pessimist, but I'm expecting the "no longer an asset but a liability" thing to be heard next. I'm reading between the lines on this very discussion board. It's amazing how fast things happen.

 

Ripple

I just spoke with Libby Davies' constituency office here in Vancouver. (No particularly close connection - she has been my MP, but I've since moved.)  They, Libby and the staff, appreciate calls of support; apparently they've listened to some pretty unpleasant stuff over the last few hours.

Not sure if I can post telephone numbers.  It's a public number, so I'll chance it, but please delete if inappropriate:

Telephone: 604 775 5800

writer writer's picture

Much appreciated, Ripple. There's no problem with posting the publicized contact information of politicians, government offices, etc. Now I've got a call to make.

ottawaobserver

BDS?  "Bush Derangement Syndrome"?

Oh ..... "boycott, divestment and sanctions" campaign.  Got it.

remind remind's picture

wrote to Layton demanding he stick up for Libby and  to denounce 'Muc'lair, I hope to fuck he bolts...."wanna lose your women voters NDP", side with the wrong side and see what happens.

remind remind's picture

the fact that Muclair Rae and Harper on the same side in this indicates much.

Just sent more letters off.

Life, the unive...

The fact that Rae (the Liberals) and Harper (the Conservatives) are attacking on such a flimsy pretext suggests that both parties are desperate to change the channel.  It also indicates that NDP polling is worry them very much, or they would not be targeting the 4th party in the House.  My guess is that the NDP vote 'universe' is quite big for them to take this step.

So far Layton has struck the right tone, and the fact that Davies is front and centre in the camera frame, as Deputy Leader suggests he will continue to do so.  If anyone should be asked to step aside it should be Rae who wouldn't know a principle if it bit him on the ass.

Hoodeet

Thanks, Ripple, for posting the phone no. for the constituency office. I just called to express support.  Phone calls and emails are running "about half and half", pro and con.  

This morning I wrote to Layton and the NDP caucus to express my disgust and promise to give up my membership publicly. More people should simply quit in a public statement.

QUESTION:  Does anyone know who the person who ambushed Ms Davies is?  Could it be the latest zionist/right wing strategy to "go viral"? 

We should probably go for the source and pillory and hound them into oblivion. 

Hoodeet

Just saw an irate Mr. Herpes berate Layton and demand Davies's resignation. He had the nerve to reference the Helen Thomas resignation as a good thing.

He is the one who should resign. 

Tommy_Paine

 

Is it the same Bob Rae that left the NDP to join the "None is too many" Party?

 

 

Stockholm

Hoodeet wrote:

Just saw an irate Mr. Herpes berate Layton and demand Davies's resignation. He had the nerve to reference the Helen Thomas resignation as a good thing.

He is the one who should resign. 

The difference of course is that Helen Thomas clearly said something pretty indefensible, while Libby Davies said something perfectly reasonable. I actually hope the full five minute video of her "interview" goes as "viral" as possible because i think that if people actually watch it - the vast majority of Canadians would nod their head in agreement and see the context in which she mentioned 1948 (though that was still a mistake and I'm glad she clarified her comments about that). To me it was akin to saying that the "occupation" of the Americas began in 1492 - which doesn't mean that Canada, the US and every other country in the western hemisphere is "illegitimate".

Michelle

So, Mulcair and Rae, up in a tree, k-i-s-s-i-n-g...

I'd like to know why these two are so bent on destroying Libby Davies over pretty much nothing.  Is this part of the new party coalition building we keep hearing so much about but that everyone keeps denying?

Are we looking at the new leadership of the Liberal Democrats or something?

Michelle

P.S. I wrote to Jack Layton, my MP, last night about this.  Haven't had a response yet.

Stockholm

I think Bob Rae wants to "destroy" Libby because his all-consuming passion in life is undermining the NDP and this is just his latest gratuitous attempt to do that.

As i wrote earlier, I think Mulcair just wants to get it "on the record" that he took a hardline taking her to task for saying the "wrong thing re: 1948" and its all about how it looks in his riding. He doesn't want to "destroy" anyone - except maybe Martin Cauchon.

JKR

This is all over the media. The common message being repeated that Libby believes that Israel is illegitimate and shouldn't exist.

The NDP should find a way to counter this message or Libby will end up being marginalized like Ignatieff was after the Conservative's ad campaign last year.

 Maybe Libby should make a statement?

writer writer's picture

He doesn't want to destroy anyone. Just backstab a very honourable colleague. I hope others will join me in an unwavering, impassioned defence of this extraordinary person.

Her commitment and integrity contrasts with the scrabbling, miserable, petty and dishonest feeding frenzy the machine men seem eager to unleash.

Who stands for democracy? Who stands as a voice to the voiceless?

Libby Davies.

ottawaobserver

Layton was on CBC Power and Politics.  He's firmly clarifying the party's policy, but I get no sense that he's prepared to give in to the right-wing hysteria on this.  I agree with Stockholm about what's probably going on here behind the scenes.  Note that one Conservative blogger on Twitter is now calling for someone to register the domain name "hezbolibby.com", and someone else is linking her partner to a "pro-Palestinian" website.

I think people are going to protect Libby, but if we let the rightwinters ramp it up any further, we're just waving a red flag at the bull-ies, and encouraging them to keep following people around with videocams.

Bob Rae is an ally of Martin Cauchon's within the Liberal party, by the way, so that's exactly what he's up to.  You don't see him doing the same with folks in his own party.

Debater

remind wrote:

wrote to Layton demanding he stick up for Libby and  to denounce 'Muc'lair, I hope to fuck he bolts...."wanna lose your women voters NDP", side with the wrong side and see what happens.

Layton will never criticize Mulcair - he is obsessed with keeping Mulcair's seat at all costs.  It means more to him than anything else.

But as you said on the previous thread, hopefully Mulcair will lose his seat in the next election.  Mulcair is a very unpleasant man.  

It's good that we can agree on something.

Life, the unive...

If that is Mulcair's intent, he is going about it in a very bizzare way- pissing off lots of NDP members and supporters/voters who look to Libby Davies as a person of integrity and virtue.  If Mulcair's is the future of the NDP, than he can have it.

Right now though I think Layton is hanging in there for Davies and I expect to continue to see him do so. 

If nothing else this should teach us that the left needs to be much more careful of its language than anyone else.  It is totally unfair, but seeing the lies, distortions and pile on happening it is pretty clear that even the most innocent of mistakes can lead to some pretty nasty behaviour by the media and others if it is said by someone on the left.  The right it seems can say all kinds of fantastical and repugnent things and that is fine and dandy.  This is a lesson we need to learn when criticizing those on the left that are trying to protect themselves from these kinds of attacks.

Unionist

There is nothing unusual about this hounding of Libby. How is it different from Carole James forcing Mable Elmore to apologize? Or Helen Thomas? Or Leslie Hughes? Or Svend Robinson? The dominant ideology in North America prohibits any thoroughgoing critique of Israeli aggression and apartheid. The NDP has never wavered from that, no more than the Liberal party or Obama. This is simply a question of taking sides and sticking with our allies and best voices. Libby falls in that category, and she needs unconditional support right now.

Life, the unive...

Exactly there is nothing unusual, which is why parsing every single word uttered by an NDP MP is so useless, but it goes on here ALL the time.

This incident shows they must pick their words carefully as the standard they are held to is much different than any other party in Canada, especially the Conservatives by the MSM.  You can make this about hating the NDP, but this issue makes it clear that the NDP is held to a much higher standard then anyone else from both sides.  It makes the job almost impossible when supposed allies attack as well.

ottawaobserver

Yes, she must be supported.

You do see how getting a simple date wrong has turned something into a story that has allowed the government and Liberals to squirm out of accountability for that deal on the detainee documents, though.

That's exactly the intent behind doing that kind of gotcha video blogging, and I think we're going to see more of it.  And I sure don't think Libby should be sacrificed to that kind of agenda.  I think our strength is to have both of them as Deputy Leaders.  We take the bait every time someone tries a divide-and-conquer, which is why they have so much fun doing it.

remind remind's picture

Life, that is pretty much what I wrote to Muclair and Jack this am.....you wanna see women walk away from the NDP? It would be over this.

 

'Muc'lair has shown himself to be just another ass nubby.

 

And you know as  I stated before about something else, if this was a man, who had said this, or similar, no a damn thing would have been done by Muclair. Nor perhaps by Rae and Harper... that it is a woman and a feminist they could not wait to "get her", IMV.

 

Drive women out of politics seems to be the order of the day.

Unionist

It's definitely odd to hear one deputy leader attack the other publicly.

Stockholm

Unionist wrote:
There is nothing unusual about this hounding of Libby. How is it different from Carole James forcing Mable Elmore to apologize? Or Helen Thomas? Or Leslie Hughes? Or Svend Robinson? 

Actually, each of these "incidents" needs to be judged on its own merits and they can't all be lumped together. I think that Libby's relatively benign and perfecctly defensible comments cannot in any way be compared with Helen Thomas saying that all Israelis should "go back where they came from" (ie: Poland and Germany) or Wendy Hughes suggesting wild conspiracy theories that the Mossad cooked up 9/11 etc...this is comparing apples and oranges. Quite frankly, I think its insult to Libby Davies to juxtapose her with those two idiots.

writer writer's picture

This came to me through Facebook. Thought others might find at least some of the information useful:

Quote:
... Contrary to the outright lies and distortions, nothing that Libby said was factually incorrect. Nor did Libby misrepresent the NDP's official policies on Israel/Palestine -- as outdated as they are. Libby is a highly principled politician and a supporter of many progressive causes. Now, she needs our support.

Yesterday I urged you (1) to send an e-mail to NDP MPs, (2) to "like" Libby's fan page on Facebook, and (3) to post a message of support on her page.

Tonight and especially tomorrow (Wed Jun 16), I am encouraging you to take the following FOUR very quick actions:

[1]► CONTINUE sending e-mails to the NDP caucus. Repeat e-mails with new thoughts and facts (see notes below) are definitely helpful. You can copy the list of e-mail addresses from: http://tinyurl.com/ybkemmd

[2]► TELEPHONE Libby's Parliament office to express your thanks and support for her and her accurate statements: 613-992-6030. (If you live in the Vancouver area, also call her constituency office: 604-775-5800.)

EXAMPLE of what to say (leave a voicemail if necessary):
"Hello. My name is _____ and I am an NDP member/supporter from _____. I am calling to express my total support for Libby and her recent statements about Palestine. Everything she has said is entirely accurate and perfectly legitimate, and she is to be commended for her courageous and principled stand. Please ensure that Libby receives my message. Thank you."

[3]► TELEPHONE Jack Layton's Parliament office (613-947-0867) to say that you support Libby, endorse her comments about Palestine, and that you are very disappointed in his criticism of Libby. It is shameful that Jack is siding with the Israel Lobby; we thought he was different from the Liberals and Conservatives. (If you live in Toronto, please also call his constituency office: 416-405-8914).

[4]► TELEPHONE NDP MP Thomas Mulcair's Parliament office (613-995-7691) to say that you are extremely disappointed and disgusted by his attack on Libby -- his colleague -- and by his decision to side with the Israel Lobby, the Liberals, and the Conservatives. His actions are absolutely shameful and an embarrassment to New Democrats. (If you live in the Montreal area, please also call his constituency office: 514-736-2727).

THANK YOU, FRIENDS. As a final step, please copy and forward this message to all like-minded and progressive people in your networks ... [W]e need to remind the Party that it should ... follow the lead of its supporting grassroots activists and its own founding principles.

PS. Remember to "like" and/or post a(nother) supportive message on Libby's Facebook fan page at: http://tinyurl.com/34rn63z

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

Life, the universe, everything wrote:

Exactly there is nothing unusual, which is why parsing every single word uttered by an NDP MP is so useless, but it goes on here ALL the time.

This incident shows they must pick their words carefully as the standard they are held to is much different than any other party in Canada, especially the Conservatives by the MSM.  You can make this about hating the NDP, but this issue makes it clear that the NDP is held to a much higher standard then anyone else from both sides.  It makes the job almost impossible when supposed allies attack as well.

No, the NDP is not. What is held to a whole other standard is Israel. All debate is always about poor Israel. Israel just murdered 9 people. The IRC has just announced Israel is in violation of international law for the purposeful and cruel brutalization of a parcel of land made up of mostly children. But there shall be no criticism of this. And any criticism of this shall be beaten down and the critic isolated and ruined.

The Liberals can't rise above the polls because Canadians recognize the party as morally bankrupt and weak. This is an opportunity for the NDP to stand apart and actually be the conscience of Canada and actually express the morality so many Canadians are waiting to grasp on to. Will they? I doubt it. This fiasco more than anything demonstrates how badly we need a new party of the left.

 

Life, the unive...

Frustrated Mess wrote:

Life, the universe, everything wrote:

Exactly there is nothing unusual, which is why parsing every single word uttered by an NDP MP is so useless, but it goes on here ALL the time.

This incident shows they must pick their words carefully as the standard they are held to is much different than any other party in Canada, especially the Conservatives by the MSM.  You can make this about hating the NDP, but this issue makes it clear that the NDP is held to a much higher standard then anyone else from both sides.  It makes the job almost impossible when supposed allies attack as well.

No, the NDP is not. What is held to a whole other standard is Israel. All debate is always about poor Israel. Israel just murdered 9 people. The IRC has just announced Israel is in violation of international law for the purposeful and cruel brutalization of a parcel of land made up of mostly children. But there shall be no criticism of this. And any criticism of this shall be beaten down and the critic isolated and ruined.

The Liberals can't rise above the polls because Canadians recognize the party as morally bankrupt and weak. This is an opportunity for the NDP to stand apart and actually be the conscience of Canada and actually express the morality so many Canadians are waiting to grasp on to. Will they? I doubt it. This fiasco more than anything demonstrates how badly we need a new party of the left.

 

 

That's right the continued occupation is all the fault of the NDP.  Get a grip.  But thanks again for proving my point about the standards the NDP are held too.

Michelle

Yes, it is odd to see a deputy leader go out of his way to attack the other deputy leader.  This is why I'd like to know just what he's got up his sleeve.  And whatever it is, Jack Layton better not be going along with it.

Life, the unive...

True I could have added that the stakes for a woman on the left are even higher.  

ETA

Sorry that was @remind just to make it clear.

-=+=-

JKR wrote:

This is all over the media. The common message being repeated that Libby believes that Israel is illegitimate and shouldn't exist.

The NDP should find a way to counter this message or Libby will end up being marginalized like Ignatieff was after the Conservative's ad campaign last year.

 Maybe Libby should make a statement?

I honestly don't think there will be any marginalization of Davies.

After the Gaza flotilla massacre, the lights went off on the "you're de-legitimizing Israel" attack.  It still plays in Ottawa, on media covering backroom politics, and in the Canwest papers.  But the average Canadian just doesn't accept that anymore.

And Davies, unlike Ignatieff, is a real politician who can communicate real issues and concerns with people.  Ignatieff was marginalized because he is a marginal political talent.

Further evidence:  Warren Kinsella, who previously would have denounced Davies as the devil incarnate because of this, has been silent so far.

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