Calling Shenanigans on the NDP Convention
NDP CONVENTION RESOLUTION PANELS SCHEDULED TO HAPPEN BEFORE THE CONVENTION EVEN STARTS!
One of the most important aspects of any NDP Convention is the debating and voting on policy resolutions. The Convention is the supreme governing body of the party, and it is through debating and passing policy resolutions that the will of the NDP membership is made known.
The federal NDP has a two-stage process for dealing with resolutions at convention. Each resolution is put into one of eight sections, and there are eight simultaneous meetings where delegates can vote on the priority each resolution should be given in its section.
The second step is for the resolutions to be brought before the entire convention, for a debate and a vote on whether to accept the resolution as party policy.
The first step of prioritizing resolutions is extremely important, because usually only a short time is allocated to debate and vote on resolutions, and so only the first few resolutions in each policy section actually get debated on the convention floor.
At this coming convention in Halifax, the first step of forming eight different panels to debate the order of resolutions is scheduled to happen on Friday morning, before the Convention Call to Order!
I have been to over a dozen provincial NDP conventions over the past four years, and this is NOT the normal procedure. I have never seen this being done in this fashion before. Indeed, I have never seen any important meetings happen before the Call to Order, especially not one so key to determining party policy!
Clearly, holding these key meetings before the Convention even begins means that most delegates will not be able to attend, and won't know where to go even if they can attend.
It is difficult to see this schedule as anything but an attempt by the NDP Executive to limit debate and ensure that the resolution process is tightly controlled.
I have spoken with delegates, riding association presidents and others who have become very frustrated in finding out any information in regards to what time the convention begins.
Usually, NDP Conventions begin on Friday afternoon and go til Sunday afternoon. To begin with the Resolution Panels first thing Friday morning, with little or no advance notice given to delegates, ensures that the democratic resolution process is being subverted.
It looks like the Convention is already shaping up to be even more undemocratic and tightly controlled than the last one.
You can not be surprised at this outcome?
The fact that any of this surprises you at all speaks to the larger issue of the wholesale fraud of the NDP, where people continue to cling to fanciful delusions of actually going somewhere, when all that occurs is that they're being taken for a ride to nowhere. My suggestion...get off now before the inevitable collision with reality, which if it isn't visible by now, is heading your way.
Keep voting for the two stale old line parties. Youll get more of the same.
Yes, except that you missed one.
Ah yes, that party which a federal Liberal government report stated in 2005 are the most fiscally responsible of all when in government: The NDP. Keep voting old line party - youll get more crooks and liars and crooked-liars in Ottawa than before, stupid bastards anyway.
Just so people know where I got this information, it is found only on the pdf file "Guide to Resolutions" on the Convention page.
The Guide to Resolutions is here:
http://www.hfx09.ca/downloads/GuideToResolutions.pdf
According to the Guide to Resolutions:
"Resolution Panels that correspond to the seven groups will meet on the first day of Convention (Friday) before the Call to Order."
"The first order of business of each Resolution Panel will be to consider the priority list developed by the Resolutions Committee. Consideration of priority order for resolutions will be limited to 30 minutes of the one and a half hour session."
"Each resolution assigned to a Resolution Panel will require Panel participants to move and second the resolution in order for it to be considered by the Panel."
"The Panel will dispose of a resolution by adopting, defeating, or tabling it. Resolutions may be amended or combined by the Panel."
"Each Panel’s ranking of resolution priorities becomes its report to plenary and will be dealt with in the corresponding Resolution Block."
Fidel, do you believe the convention as described by Dana is running in a proper manner?
This kind of thing happens in every political party, it's hardly isolated to the NDP.
Every party has an inner circle which tries to both lead and restrain their core supporters, while trying to still keep themselves "mainstream" enough to supposedly appeal to a broader base of voters.
For instance, many hardcore Conservative party members would support things like the death penalty, laws against abortion and so on, but the inner circle knows these things are unpopular with most voters, and so tries to squelch their debate within their own party and block these kinds of resolutions getting to the convention floor.
However, in this instance I think the NDP is going way too far, and being way too obvious. How will delegates feel when they come to the Call to Order and find out that the resolutions panel they were hoping to attend already happened that morning? This just seems completely bizarre to me.
The website says Convention is August 14th to 16th. What makes people think call to order is Friday evening or that people are being misled as to when Convention begins? This is not a provincial Convention but a federal Convention. Also there is a social event Friday evening.
You should also look again at the procedure, as the panels do more than determine priority. The panels process is no different than it was in Quebec City, as far as i know. That said, there is a new resolutions procedure this year whereby most resolutions will be amendments to a policy booklet prepared by the Policy Committee. It is unclear to me when the manual itself will be accepted (before or after the amendments are passed), but presumably there will be chance to discuss the booklet itself and possibly refer it back to the Policy Committee, if it is found to be wanting.
Keep voting for the two stale old line parties. Youll get more of the same.
So...similar to the aforementioned 'old line' parties then. Roger that.
Someone would have to torture me for a lot longer than they did Khalid Sheihk Mohammed before I ever consider voting Liberal or Tory. Sorry.
I have been to over a dozen NDP Conventions, and I have never ever seen one where anything important happens BEFORE the Call to Order.
The Resolutions which have been passed have not been circulated to Riding Associations yet, and I have been told that there is no intent to do so. So no delegate will be able to see a list of Resolutions and the order in which they have been placed until they arrive in Halifax.
So delegates arriving at the Convention will have to decide which of the eight sections to attend, read all the policies, and then debate and vote on them, before the Convention even starts! This is unheard of in my experience.
If I am wrong or misunderstanding something I welcome clarification or correction. I am simply sharing what I have read on the NDP Convention website. Information from actual Convention organizers is very difficult to come by.
Indeed you are correct. In fact, the Guide to Resolutions states that the Resolution Panels must spend only 30 minutes of their 90 minutes time to debate the order of resolutions. The other 60 minutes should be devoted to debating the resolutions themselves.
At the last Convention, the result of this time imbalance meant that in the Resolution Panels we had a rushed debate on resolution priorities, and then a bunch of speeches in support of the resolutions which we all already supported as that was why we put them at the top of the list.
Meanwhile, on the convention floor, where debate and votes actually mean something, everything is rushed and only a few resolutions ever get debated.
Fidel, you are a proud and loyal defender of the party. You devotion is fanatical; the party will reward you well one day.
I see once again you avoided the question with another sly grade one come back.
So if we want real change in Ottawa after this country has endured old line party rule for twice as long as Soviets ruled the USSR, we'll have to fight for a Venezuelan style MMP electoral system at the very least before Ottawa will trust Canadians with democracy. It's either that or a military coup.
Slyness requires a mastery of at least the grade two curriculum.
So what's your excuse then?
So...similar to the aforementioned 'old line' parties then. Roger that.
This has nothing to do with 'old line' parties versus 'new line' parties or whatever you are trying to say.
This is similar to every political party, large and small. The same kind of power struggles happen in the Greens, in the Marijuana Party, in the Communist Party, in the Reform Party, in every party...
The difference is that the bigger the party, the greater the stakes, and more people are involved.
I love the New Democratic Party, and I believe in our party's potential to make positive political and social change. I see Jack Layton as the best person to be Canada's Prime Minister, and I have a great deal of admiration for Layton and many other leaders and elected members of the New Democrats.
I am an idealist, who devotes most of his time and money into making what I see as positive social change. And I am certainly willing to spend a great deal of time and effort on working within the NDP to make our party more democratic, more accountable, and more successful in every way.
I've had a few emails informing me that the federal Conventions always start early on Friday morning. Whereas Provincial Conventions typically start Friday afternoon.
So it would seem wise to plan to arrive Thursday evening.
It's too bad the Convention Website has no information to be found about the exact timing of the convention opening and closing. This seems like key information for anyone trying to book a flight to the convention.
And I am still confused... The Guide to Resolutions specifically stats that "Resolution Panels that correspond to the seven groups will meet on the first day of Convention (Friday) before the Call to Order."
How can these 90 minute meetings be held before the Call to Order? It still seems wrong to me. I thought the Call to Order was the official beginning of the convention.
I would be pleased if I am mistaken and making a big to-do about nothing.
When the the last of the oil and gas and timber and profits have been siphoned-off and carted away to corporate America, Canadians might then consider cleaning the two old line parties out of Ottawa for the first time in 140 years. Until then consider the health benefits associated with eating bananas. DAY-O!
The fact that it comes in an assortment of colourful flavours, red, orange, blue, green etc, doesn't change the fact that it is all being slopped on the floor for consumption near the table leg.
Dana
I hope you are correct about being mistake inregards to the convenetion. I understand the feeling seeing something that you have devoted time and engery fall apart due to corrupt individuals.
There may still be some confusion about the new procedure. It will be interesting to see what is done with resolutions that do not amend the policy booklet. I've attended every federal Convention since 1989 and they always start the Friday morning as I recall. As for sending out resolutions in advance; it takes time for translation.
When the the last of the oil and gas and timber and profits have been siphoned-off and carted away to corporate America, Canadians might then consider cleaning the two old line parties out of Ottawa for the first time in 140 years. Until then consider the health benefits associated with eating bananas. DAY-O!
You should pay attention to Saskatchewan, since you missed the French uranium companies who have been doing this alongside the yanqui oil and lumber companies. By the way, the Romanow and Calvert NDP governments were their accomplices while they did so.
So if we want real change in Ottawa after this country has endured old line party rule for twice as long as Soviets ruled the USSR, we'll have to fight for a Venezuelan style MMP electoral system at the very least before Ottawa will trust Canadians with democracy. It's either that or a military coup.
No argument on that. Canada, like the U.S., needs a New Chartist Movement.
I woke up in a bit of a funk today, thinking about this thread and others. I'm all for voting NDP and BQ to keep the governing party, be they Con or Lib, to the smallest minority possible, but then I realized that the Cons are governing like a majority because of the !@#$!!! Liberals constantly giving them a pass on confidence votes. That is the situation we have today with Harper and Iggy. I have no doubt the Liberals will be just as bad under Iggy - and maybe worse - if they become the next government, and the HarperCons are more than likely to prop up the Liberals led by Iggy at every opportunity. The NDP will never form government at the federal level, at least in my lifetime, and we're locked into extreme neoconservatism because of Harper and Iggy for at least as long as these two bastards lead their respective parties.
With a three-day convention, I took it for granted that it would start Friday morning as it always does. So I booked my train ticket to arrive Thursday at 4:23 PM.
The information on the resolutions panel was easy to find. I went to "PROGRAM" on the top line, then to "Resolutions Panels," then to "Guide To Resolutions."
I did not notice anything odd about the wording "Resolution Panels that correspond to the seven (7) groups will meet on the first day of Convention (Friday) before the Call to Order." I expected them to meet early Friday, and this wording confirms that. I don't know what time the Call to Order is scheduled for: no detailed agenda is posted on this site. (But I now see the start time of 1:00PM on the convention Facebook page.) Whether the Call to Order usually comes before the Panels, I don't recall. The only relevance to postponing the Call to Order to 1:00PM would be if someone had wanted to try to amend the agenda from the floor to split a panel or re-organize the panels, highly unlikely to succeed anyway.
My only complaint is that the "Guide to Resolutions" mentions the new policy book but fails to include a link to it. In fact it is at http://hfx09.ca/downloads/Policy.pdf
Dana, your hyper-tense act might require some immediate medical attention. You don't care about the NDP. You care about you. What a disgrace.
I don't care if you have criticisms of the party. that's fine. but don't make shit up (like somehow panel discussions starting on the Friday of a three-day! convention is new), and quit playing the victim.
YOU chose to smoke marijuana while driving, and film it. Then run for politics. You've even defended it since. Like you've defended Mark Emery handing out marijuana joints to minors in Saskatoon - which no one in their right mind would defend.
You are an impedement to your own cause, and you just keep proving why no one should take you seriously.
I'm not quite sure how this is relevant. But if you're referring to the incident in Saskatoon which resulted in Marc Emery getting a 3 month jail sentence, he was sharing joints with University students, who are adults, not minors.
I stand by my concern that holding this most important meeting before the Call to Order is poor planning and will create confusion among delegates.
And this is new, since this is only the second time we've had this system in place for a federal convention, and last time these panels didn't happen until later in the day on Friday.
Coyote, this has nothing to do with my nomination in the last federal election, or the issues you raised in your post. Further, I don't see how my concerns about the convention process mean I am "playing the victim." This isn't to do with me personally at all, it has to do with internal democratic structures and accountability.
Anyone want to lay odds that the resolutions regarding fund sharing will be put so far down the list that there is no chance they will make it to the floor -- sort of a repeat of the Quebec City experience? I just hope that someone has the good sense to tile the doors before the votes on order to be presented are taken so that the flying squads of the National Executive aren't rushing from room to room in order to circumvent the delegates from the riding associations -- again.
To the extent that Dana is personally associated with any resolution on drug use at the convention, I'm afraid no-one will be paying any attention to the resolution's details.
I'm really sorry to say this, because I know it's an issue near and dear to his heart, and in fact there are many aspects of that are similar to what is now coming out of a lot of ridings (the need to treat drug use as a public health issue, the ineffectiveness and sheer stupidity of criminal sanctions, the need to improve the situation with medical marijuana, and the necessity of giving InSite some legal stability and allowing its success to be replicated elsewhere, among others).
But it could be true that the best thing Dana can do for his issue is to keep a low profile on it, and allow other supporters to carry the can on it at this convention. The videotape is just too fresh in the media's mind, and as a New Democrat I'm still a little raw when I think about the impact it had on our campaign last time. I don't think it was out of malice, perhaps naivete, but it hurt us badly at a time when we couldn't afford to lose momentum, and had consequences for a lot of people besides just Dana.
Sorry if this is hard to hear, Dana, but you may as well know how some people are feeling.
Fascinating discussion. When twisting and turning ends up being ineffective, personal attacks ought to put the discussion and, heaven forbid, dissension, to rest.
It looks like there's a lot of good stuff in the policy document. Anything missing (aside from Afghanistan) that ought to be addressed at the Convention?
Well, they could be brave and openly address the funding issue. Since the initial series of reforms that took place in January 04 negated the previously negotiated funding formula for riding associations, party conventions have been mysteriously silent about addressing the issue. The attempt by the BC and Alberta sections of the party to address the issue in Quebec City were thwarted (albeit masterfully) and never reached the convention floor. I have yet to see any meaningful proposals coming out from Council to address the concerns raised. It seems that Council and the Executive are quite happy to decide these matters themselves without having to negotiate directly with the sections and riding associations -- surely every managers wet dream, to settle these matters at the board table without having to talk to the worker bees directly...
I always appreciate honesty. And of course I am well aware that I am something of a controversial figure within the party now. My candidacy could have been handled better by everyone, including me of course. I wasn't pleased with how that all went, and I regret any harm I might have caused the party.
But this thread isn't really meant to be about me and my personal challenges with the party. How the convention is scheduled and organized should be interest to all New Democrats. I'm not the only one who has concerns about these issues.
There were lengthy threads and discussions here after the last federal convention, and there were debates and complaints about the way the resolution panels were run and whether it had been a truly democratic process. I don't think I'm out of line to raise some issues for discussion.
And as I've said, if I am wrong and this isn't something to be concerned about, please correct me. But in terms of forming policy, these Resolution Panels are the most important meetings of the convention, and I think that scheduling them as the very first event will be confusing and result in less participation from delegates.
Dana, your hyper-tense act might require some immediate medical attention. You don't care about the NDP. You care about you. What a disgrace.
I don't care if you have criticisms of the party. that's fine. but don't make shit up (like somehow panel discussions starting on the Friday of a three-day! convention is new), and quit playing the victim.
YOU chose to smoke marijuana while driving, and film it. Then run for politics. You've even defended it since. Like you've defended Mark Emery handing out marijuana joints to minors in Saskatoon - which no one in their right mind would defend.
You are an impedement to your own cause, and you just keep proving why no one should take you seriously.
No wonder you never catch that Roadrunner.
I don't see what the issue is. The proposed schedule is well-publicized. It allows delegate input into which resolutions get debated (this used to be done by a small committee meeting in advance of convention and delegates only had a chance to approve their report or not). It allows more time to debate resolutions than there would be if the process started later.
There were lengthy threads and discussions here after the last federal convention, and there were debates and complaints about the way the resolution panels were run and whether it had been a truly democratic process. I don't think I'm out of line to raise some issues for discussion. And as I've said, if I am wrong and this isn't something to be concerned about, please correct me. But in terms of forming policy, these Resolution Panels are the most important meetings of the convention, and I think that scheduling them as the very first event will be confusing and result in less participation from delegates.
I'm probably not the best to ask on that one. I can't be at this convention, and haven't been to one for awhile in fact. But the centre is always going to try and manage certain issues, because of problems they've had with similar issues in the past. And the membership is always going to push back; and frankly that's the way it should be on both sides.
You probably remember how coverage of the Afghanistan debate last time got totally eclipsed last time because of one preamble on a Nanaimo version of an Afghanistan resolution that didn't even make it to the floor. The folks at the centre see the national media up close on a daily basis and, give them some credit, have an idea of what is likely to go terribly wrong when seen through that narrow and grubby lens in light of past experience.
I wish the resolution well, I really do.
"The folks at the centre see the national media up close on a daily basis and, give them some credit, have an idea of what is likely to go terribly wrong when seen through that narrow and grubby lens in light of past experience."
I thought that the "centre" or central leadership was supposed to represent the wishes and decisions of the members even when they may disagree? Isn't the "it won't play well in the media argument" the same rationale provided when parties ignore democratically arrived at policies set by the members?
And isn't the so-called tug of war always weighted in favor of the "centre" which has developed procedural maneovers (and dirty tricks when required) to neutralize or silence those who are "off message" or would like to take the message in a different direction?
Under the first past the post voting system, parties are big tents which span a range of ideological and political positions and generally tend to "settle down" somewhere in the political centre. That's bad enough for minority views. Shutting down discussion of some issues - even when the movers are probably going to lose anyway - is even worse because the message is - "you have nowhere else to go so shut the f*** up because we know best about what should and shouldn't be debated".
ETA - I have no evidence one way or another to suggest that anything is being squelched for the upcoming convention.
Not only that but you have no evidence to support any of your other contentions.
It is? Can you tell me then what time the Convention Call to Order happens? Or what time these Resolution Panels are set to take place?
The only time shown anywhere is on the Convention's Official Facebook page, and that says the Convention starts at 1pm.
The only indication that the Resolution Panels are taking place before the Call to Order is a single line in a pdf file explaining the Resolution Process.
Maybe there is a schedule forthcoming.
There were lengthy threads and discussions here after the last federal convention, and there were debates and complaints about the way the resolution panels were run and whether it had been a truly democratic process. I don't think I'm out of line to raise some issues for discussion. And as I've said, if I am wrong and this isn't something to be concerned about, please correct me. But in terms of forming policy, these Resolution Panels are the most important meetings of the convention, and I think that scheduling them as the very first event will be confusing and result in less participation from delegates.
I'm probably not the best to ask on that one. I can't be at this convention, and haven't been to one for awhile in fact. But the centre is always going to try and manage certain issues, because of problems they've had with similar issues in the past. And the membership is always going to push back; and frankly that's the way it should be on both sides.
You probably remember how coverage of the Afghanistan debate last time got totally eclipsed last time because of one preamble on a Nanaimo version of an Afghanistan resolution that didn't even make it to the floor. The folks at the centre see the national media up close on a daily basis and, give them some credit, have an idea of what is likely to go terribly wrong when seen through that narrow and grubby lens in light of past experience.
I wish the resolution well, I really do.
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TURNING and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
======================================
WilliamButler Yeats The Second Coming
-------------------------------------------------------------
I basicaaly agree with you Ottawa Observer about the tension between the centre and the edges, If there is too heavy handed an approach by the centre to stifle the "edges", to stifle debate around issues like ending prohibtion or Afghanistan or economic policy, allin the name of a "feel good, media op" event It could be destructbve. Right now howver, my sense is most New Democrats going to Halifax are , for good or evil going there for a vacation and exactly that sort of "feel good, media op" event. that the centre wants. Most of us are really tired of elecion after lection after election. If we are going to spend a thusnad dolalrs or so and travel a thousand miles or so to go to a convention where there is no leadership rqace and no Red Glagged polciy debate, we will just want to relac and feel good.
So, well I support End Probhibiton,and think the centre is being silly in not allowing the ad, my adive to Dana and others is to contiuenb to be cool and take the "high road" and take the hihg raod.
On the handling of the policy process and substantive issues, much as they like to presnt thmeselves as hip and media savvy ,the centre still has a lot to learn For example It would be a simple matter to put resolutions on the webiste. andhave an openbpublic discussion on NDP policy up to and including Haliofax. . that of coursxe is eomthing the centre shies from , "Iit's bad enough members want to know NDP polciy, God help us if the media or the public ever heqrs about it"..
solidarity Peter
Not only that but you have no evidence to support any of your other contentions.
Evidence? Who needs evidence, OO? As long as you can beat your breast and claim you are wronged, the world is as it should be.
:-)
Exactly, when Dana asked for evidence that his ad violated an NDP policy, none was produced. Why does the membership think they need to know or have any access to the policies the inner clique keep in their tickle trunk? And we all know these magic invisible policies override anything the membership decides to vote on during the pretend policy debates at the convention.
A name change would be a good idea for the party-it might be time for truth in advertising and getting rid of the D word. How about just the Friendly Centrist Party?
Other contentions? Such as?
1) That the NDP is a big tent party? Isnt' it? Two or three elections ago I volunteered to work on a local campaign for a banker running under the NDP banner. We know who's on the other end of the NDP spectrum.
2) That party backroomers use procedural maneouvers sometimes to control the debate and outcome? Don't they?
3) That party backroomers or their operators sometimes resort to dirty tricks or personal attacks to "win"? Thought I just read at least one such attack in this thread whereby a policy position is reduced to someone's personal agenda which can then be dismissed.
4) That elected representatives don't always adhere to convention/party policy (for the good of the party) if there's a risk that it won't play well in the media? Has that not been known to happen?
Call it chest beating if you like but isn't that just another way of being dismissive.
Manipulation of conventions and NDP government ignoring convention policy was one of the chief reasons I left the NDP decades ago. That's why I find it sad to read this thread. You may recall Corvin Russell's account of how the groundwork was prepared to allow the federal caucus to shamefully support Harper's omnibus crime agenda, including the age-of-consent changes, by shafting the youth and LGBT caucuses:
On the Friday, in the panel to prioritize resolutions on equity issues, Joe Comartin, MP for Windsor - Tecumseh and Bob Gallagher, Layton's chief of staff, can be seen frantically trying to stifle resolutions that criticize the NDP caucus' support of Stephen Harper's law and order agenda. Particularly contentious is a resolution on the age of consent. The day before, at the youth convention, keynote speaker Jane Doe fired the young people up by calling the NDP's support of Harper's age of consent law “bullshit,” to huge cheers.
The youth and LGBT caucuses are pushing a resolution that will oppose the Conservative legislation. But Gallagher and Comartin don't want it to hit the convention floor and the eyes of the media. The party will support Harper in Parliament, and they want to avoid the “embarrassment” of a policy driven by the party members who will be most affected by the new law: youth and queers. The resolution has been put 60th on the list by the party management's own pre-convention committee, meaning it will never be heard.
After the youth succeed in prioritizing the resolution to go to the convention floor, Gallagher and Comartin organize against them. Gallagher furiously works his Blackberry to stuff the panel with caucus staff and union friendlies. Caucus members glower at the youth delegates who are arguing for their resolution. At the last minute, MP Jean Crowder moves that it be tabled. Gallagher's people are filing in even after the doors are supposed to have been “tiled.”
That's just a small excerpt - read the whole thing. It was extensively debated on babble at the time. The usual suspects on all sides took the predictable position, including "my party leadership right or wrong".
Unfortunately, Corvin's article - which was written for rabble.ca - has disappeared from the "new" rabble, so I had to find an alternative source. Anyway, I never attended a federal convention - only provincial ones - but I understand and share Dana's concerns.
Well it seems as if I am banned from making any posts on the Official NDP Convention Page on Facebook.
Here's the page: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=92933656333
Over the past few weeks I have made three posts to the Facebook page wall, and all of them have been deleted within 48 hours or less.
I don't have the exact wording anymore, but the first post said:
* If you are an NDP member who supports drug policy reform and wants to come to the Convention, contact info@endprohibition for information on how we can help to get you there.
The second post said:
* Why are the Resolution Priority Panels being held BEFORE the Call to Order?
The third post said:
* Long live the NDP! Jack Layton for Prime Minister.
I sent a message to Jen Anthony and Marena Winstanley, who are the two admins on the page, and who are both "Convention Organizers" in some way. I politely asked if they knew why my posts get deleted.
Jen didn't reply, and Marena sent me a reply which said:
* I'm afraid I don't have much to say in response to your messages. These are not my decisions to be made.
I replied asking politely who it is that is making these decisions, but I have received no further response.
In my opinion, even if you agree with the decisions to ban the End Prohibition ad from the Convention Guide and to regularly delete my posts from the Facebook page, there should be someone who is willing to take responsibility for these decisions.
Everyone I have spoken to on these issues says that it is not their decision, and then cuts off communication with me.
Whose money is funding these eNDProhibition ads? Where does this group get its money? I would like to know.
I usually pay for the ads myself. They're not very expensive really, and it's a small-sized ad.
I receive donations from supporters and members sometimes, but mostly it comes from me.
I've actually decided to register End Prohibition as a non-profit organization, we're beginning that process soon.
Do you have any evidence to support that contention?
Why should there be any shenanigans. What i would do is put the Pot motions at 9 o'clock in the morning on the first day of the convention. That ought to ensure their defeat.
I notice that the party is sending notices to everyone soliciting donations and trying to get anyone and everyone to come to convention. Honestly, is anyone going to convention? I've got better things to do like get my back waxed.
From what you are telling us Dana, it appears to me that the NDP is no friend to anyone who wants to see the laws regarding marijuana changed. I am sorry to hear that they are behaving in this manner, it only confirms to me that they are a political party without respect for their membership.
And you expect what? That they don't bother encouraging people to attend Convention?
Big Daddy, here's the text from the latest e-ad I received about the Convention from this morning. it does have a lot of emphasis on the 'money' aspect which does make it sound like a fundraising plea.
"
My Fellow New Democrat,
One month ago, Darrell Dexter and Nova Scotia New Democrats made history - winning a majority government and kicking out the Conservatives after 10 years of rule.
And now, New Democrats across Canada are gearing up to do the same by defeating Stephen Harper. And it all starts at HFX09 in Halifax this August.
I want you to be there. If you register right now - by July 15 - you'll even save $100.
We'll learn from New Democrat winners like Premier Dexter and Premier Doer. And we'll hear directly from Barack Obama's inner circle - including Director of Communications Anita Dunn and key advisor Marshall Ganz.
Join Jack Layton and thousands of revved up New Democrats as we launch the next election campaign.
Don't wait. Register right now online and save $100.
See you there,
Brad Lavigne,
National Director,
Jack Layton's New Democrats"
Dana, if Jack is telling someone like ME that he wants ME to be there, i figure we should become convention buddies and sit next to one another the whole time. ; )
Since the deadline for the savings is today, if they *hadn't* sent out that email, they would have been criticized by someone else here too in a week's time for sneakily trying to promote the convention after the discount came off.
As to fundraising, I don't suppose anyone here noticed that the federal party backed away from fundraising during the first two quarters in favour of the two provincial elections and two leadership campaigns. Now they have to catch up before the Liberals and their friends in the MSM get their latest "NDP is broke" meme fully promulgated out there.
This just makes me laugh .....it really does.
As I said for quebec city they were so ahead of things they came and met us in montreal on the train to tell us the cannabis resolutions were never going to reach the floor.
They told us point blank and had already decided what was what.
You are ridiculous in your continued support of laytons ndp (now done party) as really you should be helping the green party who has already said many many times it will re- legalize cannabis.
This is plainly just about you as most from your cannabis groups have already said.
Seems he wrote he will become a MP and do it all himself ...LOL
Give it up or at the least quit trying to tear down the greens who already have a RE- LEGALIZE CANNABIS POLICY !!!!
Good grief......
"This just makes me laugh .....it really does."
It is cheap for the Green Party to say whatever they want.
In the worst voter turn out in Canada's history.....last election.
With the most ever ever spent by the ndp and all others.
Only one party went up in votes and they went up by 41% !!!
THE GREEN PARTY
I know the RE- LEGALIZED cannabis policy was hugely responsible as I paid the price for its inclusion and still am.
Yes with out a seat we are no one.....but just wait ......as I have more coming for this election!
DON'T LET THEM TELL YOU IT CANT BE DONE .......LOLLLLLLLLLLL
When have I ever tried to tear down the Green Party? I didn't mention them in this thread at all.
I never say anything bad about the Green Party at all. Instead it is you Sway (aka John Shavluk) who obsessively follows me through different forums, posting under different names, constantly attacking me because of the party I belong to.
Besides, aren't you, John Shavluk, suing your own Green Party friends? It seems like it is you who is trying to tear things down, not me.
I am glad to see people in every party working to end this terrible drug war. I am happy to know that Boris St-Maurice, former leader of the Canadian Marijuana Party, is working within the Liberals. We need activists in every party.
By the way, I never meant to imply that the "shenanigans" in regards to the timing of the Resolution Panels is a direct attempt to stop the drug policy resolution.
I think it is more a general attempt to control these meetings, to ensure that only the "right" resolutions get prioritized and make it to the floor.
Every party has a tension between wanting to be democratic, and wanting to limit the ability of various party factions from taking over the agenda.
The Conservatives hold their policy meetings at convention "in camera" so no outsiders can see their discussions.
The Liberals decided to have no policy meetings at all at their last convention, just so they could focus on the greatness of Michael Ignatieff.
So it's not like the NDP are worse, it's just that we expect our party to be better than this, and to uphold a higher degree of democracy and integrity than the other two.
"Democracy" and "integrity", DL in the name of freedom to smoke pot?
Who is paying you to make this an issue more important than economy and climate change - which the New Democrats are grappling with out there in competition with that cynical, manipulative and very secretive opposition you describe? Because your petty position can only be destructive to the only party that makes an attempt at being democratic and maintaining integrity.
Or have you simply smoked one too many and can no longer see beyond your own narcissistic image?
While I personally think there is nothing wrong with placing importance on not wanting to be called a criminal or see your friends and family called criminals by your government it's just sheer ignorance to think that's the whole argument. 'Nationalists'who think the opposite frankly scare me.
The reality is its perfectly easy to smoke pot in BC and ALOT of people do. And I've met ALOT of professionals in Toronto and New York(Engineers, Lawyers, Doctors, Teachers, Dentists) who don't have much difficulty doing it either. Of course these aren't the targets of the drug war, anyone with half a clue about the justice system in North American knows that. It's hilarious to me how many of the professional and academic class still try to maintain that the Drug war is about drugs and isn't a Class war and more often than not, a Race war. I once shared a joint with a law school graduate from Calgary who thought marijuana had been decriminalized-that's the kind of a bubble a lot of members of this class live in. Not a second thought about the illegality of their crime(because they know they aren't in any real danger of ever being on the brunt of this law), where what they are using came from or for the people in prisons because of it. I just can't take seriously Political Parties and indiciduals who think this very blatant and basic systematic reality is a 'petty issue'. They are either so sheltered they live in complete ignorance or they support the current classist and racist application of the law. Still, nice 'National Post-esque' rhetoric to pit one progessive issue against another.
Oops.
You should have seen which ndp were out side smoking joints before they went back in to the Quebec City 2006 ndp convention just to kill the cannabis resolutions
Nice party.....actually hypocrites
This thread is not complete without the other half of it ...sorry
http://www.rabble.ca/babble/canadian-politics/end-prohibition-ad-blocked-ndp-convention-guide
It should all be one thread based on the usual rules here ...should it not?
That didn't make any sense. You have any links beside your anonymous story?
"Democracy" and "integrity", DL in the name of freedom to smoke pot?
Who is paying you to make this an issue more important than economy and climate change - which the New Democrats are grappling with out there in competition with that cynical, manipulative and very secretive opposition you describe? Because your petty position can only be destructive to the only party that makes an attempt at being democratic and maintaining integrity.
Or have you simply smoked one too many and can no longer see beyond your own narcissistic image?
A good question and one that I would like to see you answer, Dana.
That didn't make any sense. You have any links beside your anonymous story?
Yeah buddy sure here is the list of names .....LOL
Sorry pal but I wont be ratting out the ndp I smoked with or knew were smoking
I said I was in the ndp for 30 years...its not their faults the current leadership is cowardly manipulative and not really leaders
The membership wants a policy like the greens have.
I know based on what was said in Quebec City and by whom.
You maybe missed my point above but at this point I wont name names.
I think Dana was right when he pegged sway as Shavluk.
Now WHO (pun intended) represents us?
I recently expressed my concerns about the whole New World Order/WHO Flu etc., to a friend who is a very active NDPer. The person didn't seem to fazed by it.
I thought to myself, "Geez, if I was in a political party that supposedly represented the people, I'd be researching all of these coincidences to see what's going on here."
But no. The noose seems to be tightening on our freedoms and this post about the NDP brass attempting to close off grassroots discussions before their meeting just about convinces me that the NDP has no more authority to say it represents the people and cares about Canadian soverignty than the other two parties.
I was a staunch NDP voter, and one-time volunteer. Next election, or sooner, I'm going to be looking around for some other political outlet that wants to address what its members wish to discuss or question. Looks like our mainstream political parties all wear the same stripes.
I just hope I haven't misinterpreted this post.
... sigh
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
This thread was intended to be about the scheduling of the Resolution Prioritization Panels being held BEFORE the Call to Order. This should be a concern for anyone who supports democracy and open debate within the NDP.
The resolution is not about the freedom to smoke pot. It is actually calling for an end to prohibition and creating a drug policy based on human rights and reducing harm, not based on punishment and imprisonment.
Some might argue that legalization of cannabis could help with both those issues.
Certainly legalized, taxed and regulated cannabis would generate billions for the Canadian economy. Indeed, California is looking to legalize cannabis now mainly due to the economic benefits that would be gained.
Increased cultivation of cannabis hemp would help with climate change and reducing CO2 in the atmosphere. Using hemp to make concrete, called "hempcrete" or also "isochanvre" will actually remove CO2 from the atmosphere and lock it into the buildings made from hempcrete.
Growing more hemp would also help our economy, and provide us with a renewable and local source of food, fuel, fibre and medicine.
However, I've never claimed that ending prohibition is "more important" than other issues. But it is an important issue and one that needs to be addressed.
Pretty niave thinking here....of course they can do what ever they want and do.
10 to 1 odds I will give !!
for you gamblers
against the ndp accepting one cannabis resolution or even debating the issue with Mr Lsd running endpro
any takers?
Of course though ....I have already seen some of the approved resolutions ...again.
5 to one odds .......the endpro team does not even get out of bed on time .....for a debate if one does happen.....AGAIN !!!
Meaning just like last convention.
Good luck all....LOL