Canada Federal Election October 21 2019 (Wynne's Collapse in Ontario Could Spell Trudeau Trouble in Ottawa)

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gadar
gadar

300 acedemics urge Trudeau to condemn Israeli violence against Gazans. Will he listen, I wont hold my breath

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/letter-trudeau-isreali-violence-1.4716756

gadar

Bill to expunge gay-sex criminal records takes effect.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/lgbtq-criminal-record-law-passed-1.4716219

gadar

Tom Mulcair: party should be worried about the future

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tom-mulcair-ndp-quebec-1.4714919

josh

How stupid is Andrew Scheer?  Pretty darn stupid.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Tom_Parkin_/status/1010004026170265600

josh

gadar wrote:

Tom Mulcair: party should be worried about the future

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tom-mulcair-ndp-quebec-1.4714919

Yeah, and he’s a lot of the reason why.

MapleInTheEye

voice of the damned wrote:

I certainly don't like Kenney, and I also want to see the Alberta NDP returned to government. However...

I have 6th sense that if he wins, he's going to go on a rampage and try to force a harsh right wing agenda at a national level.

How can Kenney force any significant agenda at the national level? Even if he wins, he'll just be the premier of one province.

Okay, so maybe the feds and other provincial governments will like what they see in Alberta, and copy him? Not likely, if voters in the other provinces truly are opposed to what Alberta is doing. Their leaders will know not to implement anything remotely like the UCP program, lest they get tossed from office.

And if voters elsewhere don't really care enough to vote out their governments for adopting that agenda, or maybe even like the agenda, well, then you've got bigger problems than what's going on in Alberta.

 

 

--------

Here's why Kenney is a national threat. First of all, for all the problems of Doug Ford, he hasn't run on nor has he indicated he has any problems with the health care system from an ideological perspective. Kenney is part of a fairly extreme economical right perspective and has already campaigned on introducing serious privatization schemes should he be elected.

Why is he a national threat? People with extreme right wing economic views, like Kenney, tend to use every legal means possible to fight. They are tenacious. He can use his position in power to launch legal cases and use the power of one of the most powerful provinces in that fight. Dr. Day has already launched legal cases to challenge the health system as we know it, with cases leading high up the legal chain.

If the Supreme Court has to rule in favour or not in favour on a forced exteme agenda, watch out. It magically has national relevance. Imagine Dr. Day's lawsuit in BC, a discredited doctor who has double billed the government and charged his patients, in a lawsuit. Now imagine the power of one of Canada's most powerful governments fighting legal challenges. That's the power of an anti-government crusader by the name of Jason Kenney. He's the new generation of reformers.

I'm old enough to remember that reform conservatives have no resemblance to traditional conservatives. Harper ended up not being as extreme as many of us had imagined, he too at one point wanted to dismantle the health care system. He ended up wanting power a bit more than he wanted to shove his radical agenda, so he ended up doing virtually nothing on health care, thankfully.

Kenney is slightly younger, slightly more hot headed, and he's certainly more arrogant and condescending of a politician. Will he like power and tame his reform conservative heart and become a more Harper-like politician that doesn't force his real will and agenda, or does he go for the kill? That is yet to be seen.

But if Alberta's NDP can stop giving up the fight (just like pathetic Kathleen Wynne did) before an election is over? We shall see. IMO, seeing that the UCP didn't merge the right (it simply steamrolled over the centre-right PC's), Alberta NDP's best campaign method is to prove to those red Tories that still exist in Alberta that their party no longer exists, to leave that party, and be willing to continue a government that has worked hard for Alberta's interests, even against national NDP orthodoxy at times. It might be the magical serum to give the Alberta NDP a boost and win another election. But it takes a progressive campaign team with the ability to communicate and talk to Red Tory voters, be willing to step outside of conventional politics, and convince these voters that there's no room for Red Tories in the UCP. It is up to the NDP to make them feel a warm welcome and feel invited to vote NDP and stay with the NDP.

FWIW, Kenney has a hot mouth and loves to rant and rave. You could create some very juicy advertisements just with him ranting about the NDP 'accidental government' just to show how arrogant this guy is. Kenney has no respect for voters' decisions, he thinks he knows best. When he barks arrogantly about an 'accidental government' he is putting down voters who genuinely made a choice for change. He's barking against the voting public he's asking votes from. Most people dont pay attention to politics inbetween elections, and Kenney gives a lot of opportunity to bring his numbers down before Alberta's next election because of his hot, arrogant mouth.

Kenney is in every way a more powerful threat than Doug Ford ever was or could be. He's a far right anti-government conservative zealot. Doug Ford is just the buffoon that stumbled upon an election when Ontario PC got caught with its hands down someone's pants. From what I can tell, Doug Ford has no ideological bent against health care and has no privatization plans. Kenney is the bigger threat... All Canadians should pitch in to help the Alberta NDP through donations and messaging HQ's to tell them they need to start a campaign to communicate to red Tory voters now.

Alberta NDP needs to split the right. Just because they had a convention and merged the parties doesn't mean red Tories actually have a voice in this new 'UCP' conservative concoction. If red Tory voters and the few Liberals that exist in Alberta come around, that extra percent can deliver another Alberta NDP government. They already are polling at around 35%, which is extremely high. And polls in Alberta are extremely unreliable to begin with. Mere weeks after the NDP was elected with 40% of the vote, Wildrose went from the 24% actual vote to 40% in the polls.

Alberta NDP has potential to win another election, just because polls look bad does not mean they cannot do it. Since when does 35% support in a poll look bad in a Canadian election? LOL Anything is plausible.

MapleInTheEye

duplicate

NorthReport

Another Fail for Canada's Pipeline King PM 

Canada Won't Follow Europe's Lead And Beef Up Climate Plan

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/06/22/catherine-mckenna-canada-climat...

 

NorthReport

Canada's Pipeline King PM fined by Canada's Ethics Commissioner for breaking Canada's conflict of Interest Act!

https://www.blacklocks.ca/pm-pays-100-ethics-penalty/

 

bekayne
NorthReport

NDP MP to table bill pardoning pot crimes ‘immediately’ after Bill C-45 becomes law

https://globalnews.ca/news/4293240/ndp-mp-pot-crimes-pardons-bill-c-45/

NorthReport

Not only should you be clean, but you should also appear to be clean!

https://www.thestar.com/news/paradise-papers/2017/11/05/trudeau-bronfman-kolber-offshore-trust-taxes.html

NorthReport

According to Nik Nanos there has been a noticeable decline in Canadian Consumer Confidence

voice of the damned

Maple wrote:

Why is he a national threat? People with extreme right wing economic views, like Kenney, tend to use every legal means possible to fight. They are tenacious. He can use his position in power to launch legal cases and use the power of one of the most powerful provinces in that fight. Dr. Day has already launched legal cases to challenge the health system as we know it, with cases leading high up the legal chain.

If the Supreme Court has to rule in favour or not in favour on a forced exteme agenda, watch out. It magically has national relevance. Imagine Dr. Day's lawsuit in BC, a discredited doctor who has double billed the government and charged his patients, in a lawsuit. Now imagine the power of one of Canada's most powerful governments fighting legal challenges. That's the power of an anti-government crusader by the name of Jason Kenney. He's the new generation of reformers.

But if it's possible for a Premier Kenney to launch legal challenges to dismantle health-care, you don't think that right-wingers in other provinces will be able to come up with the same ideas, independently of what happens in Alberta?

Do you imagine that, back in the 90s, Mike Harris was planning to go with a Red Tory agenda, before he saw the example being set by Ralph Klein in Alberta?  

People seriously overestimate the influence Alberta has over the rest of Canada. Even the phrase "reformacon" understates the number of top ministers in Harper's cabinet who came from provinces where the Reform Party never even got a foothold.

Seriously, it's great that you want everyone to donate to the Alberta NDP, but don't let yourself believe it'll do anything to deter the barbarians in other provinces. If they'd be inclined to follow a right-wing agenda in the event of Kenney taking Alberta, they'll be inclined to follow it otherwise.

 

voice of the damned

Oh, and I've just been reading about this Dr. Day guy. According to the article, he works in Vancouver. So how the heck does the outcome of his court case have anything to do with Alberta?

EDIT: Oh, okay, I see your original point, ie. Day's lawsuit would be guarenteed to win, if it were backed by a government as powerful as Alberta's.

Still not seeing how that's gonna be the decisive factor if such a case gets to the Supreme Court. First off, you'd need a bunch of judges on the SCOC open to the arguments made by Alberta, and who is going to appoint judges like that?

And presumbaly, the feds would have lawyers arguing in favour of maintaining universality, I assume. And if they don't, well, like I say, that's not Alberta's fault.

NorthReport

Meanwhile Dr Day continues to extra-bill I presume. 

Medicare trial logistics beggar belief

http://vancouversun.com/news/national/medicare-trial-logistics-beggar-be...

NorthReport

Chaoulli was a terrible decision and less fortunate Canadians have been paying the price ever since.

What the B.C. government doesn't want Dr. Day to tell Medicare trial

 

By 2004, the restrictions on private health care were under review as unconstitutional in a Quebec case known as Chaoulli, where Day was an intervener.

The high court struck down the provisions in that province because of the waiting times. 

http://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/mulgrew-what-the-b-c-governme...

robbie_dee
NorthReport
NorthReport

My hunch is that Trudeau is going down, down, and down!

Does Justin Trudeau actually hate the West?

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-does-justin-trudeau-actu...

progressive17 progressive17's picture

Justin Trudeau hates anything which is not his face in the mirror.

MapleInTheEye

voice of the damned wrote:

Maple wrote:

Why is he a national threat? People with extreme right wing economic views, like Kenney, tend to use every legal means possible to fight. They are tenacious. He can use his position in power to launch legal cases and use the power of one of the most powerful provinces in that fight. Dr. Day has already launched legal cases to challenge the health system as we know it, with cases leading high up the legal chain.

If the Supreme Court has to rule in favour or not in favour on a forced exteme agenda, watch out. It magically has national relevance. Imagine Dr. Day's lawsuit in BC, a discredited doctor who has double billed the government and charged his patients, in a lawsuit. Now imagine the power of one of Canada's most powerful governments fighting legal challenges. That's the power of an anti-government crusader by the name of Jason Kenney. He's the new generation of reformers.

But if it's possible for a Premier Kenney to launch legal challenges to dismantle health-care, you don't think that right-wingers in other provinces will be able to come up with the same ideas, independently of what happens in Alberta?

Do you imagine that, back in the 90s, Mike Harris was planning to go with a Red Tory agenda, before he saw the example being set by Ralph Klein in Alberta?  

People seriously overestimate the influence Alberta has over the rest of Canada. Even the phrase "reformacon" understates the number of top ministers in Harper's cabinet who came from provinces where the Reform Party never even got a foothold.

Seriously, it's great that you want everyone to donate to the Alberta NDP, but don't let yourself believe it'll do anything to deter the barbarians in other provinces. If they'd be inclined to follow a right-wing agenda in the event of Kenney taking Alberta, they'll be inclined to follow it otherwise.

 

------

I never said conservative parties in other provinces don't have the potential to go full-blown right-wing crazy. I never said that, and that is not the point I presented. Potential for this is always present. But demonstrably, the UCP is the most right wing major political party this country has seen in a long time. This isn't the old PC.

I do think Alberta, as the 4th largest province, has a significant influence on the national scene. Albertans like to play up that they are forgotten (they aren't, and despite their hate of the NEP, Trudeau Sr. created the NEP to boost up Canadian industry, PetroCan was HQ'ed in Calgary afterall, and it was to price oil in Canadian dollars to be sold at a higher price on the world market, thus boosting Albertan fortunes. Alberta has never been left out.). The bottom line is Kenney himself, he is on record in the past stating he would like to dismantle a lot of Canadian social services that are the bedrock of Canadian society. He doesn't use that language directly all the time, but the question none of us know is will he be more dangerous than Harper, or will he tame those inner voices because he seeks power?

Alberta itself, even though its the most conservative province in the country, does have a progressive streak within its largely conservative makeup. I would like to believe even Alberta voters tend to care for their public services more than they care for hard right reform politics. They did, afterall, elect an NDP government consciously and willingly. Kenney has to understand this and realize this behind his 'illegitimate government' nonsense. If he does, I can only assume that even though he personally wants to dismantle the health system, he will be like Harper and 'go along with it' because he feels voters would completely destroy his party in a subsequent election. A party he just recently had to rebuild to get it back into power. Isn't it bitterly ironic that addiction to power is the only thing that keeps these extreme right wingers in check?

Maybe my fears are misguided, and I would hope they are. But seeing the Kenney record and his teeth-gnashing rhetoric, I am not so sure he's willing to negotiate and bargain. He sounds like a burn it to the ground type.

josh
NorthReport

Trudeau better start praying that Eby doesn’t launch a public inquiry into money-laundering in BC. Even without an inquiry the BC Liberals may never recover Look for a possible name change from them And from what is being bandied about in BC  there are serious ramifications for the Trudeau Liberals as well.

Liberals were on the ropes when Trudeau took over and he got them through the last election but my hunch is that’s about as good as it gets.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4315580/bc-attorney-general-david-eby/

gadar
gadar

Revenge of the Harperites, some are probably still seething at Trudeau but they will get theirs in 2019

https://www.hilltimes.com/2018/07/04/revenge-of-the-harperites/149940

 

gadar

Some MPs treat staff 'like cattle' while others are excellent. The MPs from the party with the attitude of 'entitlement to entitlements' are probably the worst

https://www.hilltimes.com/2018/07/02/mps-excellent-employers-others-gran...

gadar

US Border patrol is daring 'sunny ways', what rou going to do? Cry? 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/lobster-fishermen-stopped-us...

gadar

CON

verb

  1. persuade (someone) to do or believe something, typically by use of a deception.

     

noun

  1. an instance of deceiving or tricking someone.

     

gadar

Cons chose the right name for their party. Progressive Con doesnt quite work.

gadar

Cons doing what they are best at, deception and misleading

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/fact-checking-conservative-twitter/

Sean in Ottawa

When it comes to treatment of staff, I do not think that politics is the dividing line. The reason I suspect that the NDP reality is better is becuase they are unionized.

Workers should not be there at the goodwill of any employer but should be organized to have rights respected. This is just another example.

This does not mean bad stuff cannot happen in the NDP but the employer knows it will be an issue and the employee knows they have a place to go.

bekayne

 

https://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/531978/npd

Le Nouveau Parti démocratique perd un de ses gros joueurs au Québec. La députée montréalaise Hélène Laverdière — qui avait détrôné Gilles Duceppe en 2011 — quittera la politique fédérale l’an prochain.

josh

Getting out before the deluge in Quebec apparently.

R.E.Wood

I didn't realize this thread was home to posts about Christopherson and Laverdiere deciding to not seek re-election when I started separate threads for those subjects. Sorry about that. I agree with Josh - Laverdiere probably sees the writing on the wall.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

When it comes to treatment of staff, I do not think that politics is the dividing line. The reason I suspect that the NDP reality is better is becuase they are unionized.

The NDP MP's volunterily recognized their staff and bargained with them collectively when the staff had no right to unionize. I may slam the NDP for many things but in fact in this case they went the extra mile for the rights of their support staff.

R.E.Wood

Carrying on from a discussion in the thread about Helene Laverdiere not seeking re-election, which included the news (to me at least) that Romeo Saganash is also not seeking re-election...

When a party loses a popular incumbent it weakens the chances that the party will be able to hold the riding with a new candidate, unless the new candidate is a "star". Also, the fact that there seems to be a substantial and growing wave of NDP MP's deciding that this is the time for them to retire or move on to other things (like Kennedy Stewart) adds up to further bad optics for the party: these MP's have read the tea leaves and don't think it's worth their effort to stick around on the federal stage anymore. The NDP has fallen so far back from where it was during the 2011 Orange Wave that there is no hope of the party winning the next election, and worse than that there is every likelihood that the party will sustain further major seat losses. 

Jagmeet Singh and the party's current policy direction (or lack thereof) are not resonating with people across this country. The NDP has no chance of regaining any seats in the Atlantic Region or Territories, and stands to lose almost all of our current seats in Quebec (hopefully a few will survive). While we may pick up some seats in the GTA, we stand to we wiped out across the prairies, with the possible exception of Niki Ashton in northern Manitoba due to her personal popularity in her riding. And while there may or may not be any room for additional pick-ups in the Vancouver region, we stand to lose the couple seats we have in the BC Interior (Kootenay and Okanagan) regions. I think the NDP could easily be looking at net losses of 20+ seats, or to put it another way - about 50% of the existing caucus numbers.

josh

Seems about right.  If Singh wants to try to jump start things, he might want to consider running to replace Stewart.

Sean in Ottawa

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

When it comes to treatment of staff, I do not think that politics is the dividing line. The reason I suspect that the NDP reality is better is becuase they are unionized.

The NDP MP's volunterily recognized their staff and bargained with them collectively when the staff had no right to unionize. I may slam the NDP for many things but in fact in this case they went the extra mile for the rights of their support staff.

Yes absolutely. I was aware of this.

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