Canadian Military

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NDPP

Liberals' Massive Increase in Defence Spending is a Budgetary Coup  -  by Murray Dobbin

http://rabble.ca/columnists/2017/06/liberals-massive-increase-defence-sp...

"The arrogance of power could scarcely be more dramatically demonstrated than by the tag team of Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland and Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan announcing that Canada was going to cave in to Donald Trump's demand that we spend two per cent of GDP on defence..."

NDPP

War Must Be Part of Canada's Future, Foreign Minister Declares

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/06/08/cana-j08.html

"The speech delivered by Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland in the House of Commons Tuesday marks a major escalation in the Liberal government's efforts to aggressively assert Canada's imperialist interests on the world stage.

Freeland's speech set the stage for Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan's presentation of Canada' new defence policy yesterday..."

 

mark_alfred

Trump says "Jump!" and Trudeau whimpers, "How high?"

Canada to boost military budget by 70% after pressure from US to spend more

NDPP

1st Canadian Troops Arrive To Start Mission in Latvia

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/canadian-military-latvia-1.4155341

"Over coming days, 450 Canadians to arrive in NATO effort to discourage Russian aggression."

Or to encourage NATO's...

Paladin1

We agreed to spend 2% but we don't; we ought to abide by our word when given.

We don't spend the money we have properly and effeciently. We're quite wasteful with how we spend what we have.  In example; imagine seeing $6000 worth of whiteboards purchased (including important uses such as writing down canteen prices) yet $400 worth of equipment tie-down straps gets denied (ever see what happens when you move heavy equipment with shitty straps?)

Our equipment is very dated and worn out. Our pistols are over 70 years old. If your life doesn't depend on it you won't give a shit  but imagine trusting a beat up and ratty 70 year old seatbelt.

The 450 soldiers in latvia is just politics, dog and pony shows and a safe way for some soldiers to get shiny new medals. Just like Iraq.

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Or to encourage NATO's...

NATO:  "Alright.  All we need is another 450 poorly equipped troops and we can invade Russia once and for all!"

NDPP

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NATO and Partners Hold Land, Sea Exercises in Eastern Europe

http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/world/nato-and-partners-hold-land-sea-exerc...

Britain leads 4,000 NATO troops to Russia's doorstep ready for WW3 wargames

NDPP

NATO Wants Canadians Back in Afghanistan: Sajjan

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/nato-wants-canadians-back-in-afghanistan-...

"The request came from the US through NATO, and could involve either civilian police trainers like the RCMP, or military trainers working with Afghan police, a defence official added. Sajjan says Canada is looking at all aspects of support for Afghanistan..."

 

Liberals Silence Opposition By Fulfilling Their Defence Spending Promises

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/althia-ray/liberals-defence-spending-harjit...

"The Liberals announced $62-billion in defence spending this week but you wouldn't know it listening to question period. The NDP devoted no questions - out of 33 - on defence spending..."

Paladin1

In Canada basic training lasts around 12 weeks and for combat soldiers another 16 weeks, which is at the more lenghtly end of training times for NATO countries.  We've been trying to train the Iraq and Afghanistan army for close to 20 years, not to sound defeatist but maybe we're doing something wrong.

It's clever how the budget only really "kicks in" after the next election.  Considering how much the Liberals deficit promise balloned after the last election (trippled? quadrupeled? what they promised) I'm willing to bet that 62 billion to the military gets slashed significantly lol

They're just pandering to conservative voters knowing full well they can do whatever they want and traditionally left wing voters will not go conservative. Also it keeps the US and NATO off our back for the state our military is in.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Paladin1 wrote:

In Canada basic training lasts around 12 weeks and for combat soldiers another 16 weeks, which is at the more lenghtly end of training times for NATO countries.  We've been trying to train the Iraq and Afghanistan army for close to 20 years, not to sound defeatist but maybe we're doing something wrong.

It sounds simple enough to me. The problem is that no matter who you train a large portion of them end up seeing you and the rest of the NATO troops as invaders, so they join the other side or just go home. The ones who stay are not necesarily the cream of the crop and in many areas of the country they are considered collaborators.

The root of the problem is in believing that we can train people to control their fellow citizens on behalf of foreign powers. Its never going to work because it is a flawed idea.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

The root of the problem is in believing that we can train people to control their fellow citizens on behalf of foreign powers. Its never going to work because it is a flawed idea.

Very true, K, but sadly, most North Americans don't seem to believe that is what we are doing. They actually believe the obvious lie that we are trying to train Iraqis and Afghans to defend democracy in their own, independent countries. Perhaps paladin even believes this.

NDPP

Serbia Sues NATO Over 1999 Bombing

https://youtu.be/WSUKEWSbzu4

"Serbia is launching a lawsuit against NATO over the 1999 bombing."

 

(1999) Canada's Military Boasts of its Role in Bombardment of Yugoslavia

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/1999/07/can-j07.html

"Canadian pilots participated in fully ten percent of all bambing missions against Yugoslavia."

The lawsuit by a daughter of Gadaffi would also involve Canada. 

Paladin1

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Paladin1 wrote:

In Canada basic training lasts around 12 weeks and for combat soldiers another 16 weeks, which is at the more lenghtly end of training times for NATO countries.  We've been trying to train the Iraq and Afghanistan army for close to 20 years, not to sound defeatist but maybe we're doing something wrong.

It sounds simple enough to me. The problem is that no matter who you train a large portion of them end up seeing you and the rest of the NATO troops as invaders, so they join the other side or just go home. The ones who stay are not necesarily the cream of the crop and in many areas of the country they are considered collaborators.

The root of the problem is in believing that we can train people to control their fellow citizens on behalf of foreign powers. Its never going to work because it is a flawed idea.

 

I'd wager the problem is culture, theirs and ours. 

In so far as theirs goes I think it's incompatable with ours. We don't act, think, behave alike. We can put a multicam uniform on them, give them an M4 assault rifle, train them in our doctrines but at the end of the day there's a good chance they're still going to stand up and blindly fire off bullets, oblivious to incoming fire. Why?  InShaAllah, if God wills it.  Their views on honour compared to ours, our views on sexual relations with minors compared to theirs.  Our cultures are drastically different and don't overlay well.

As for our culture we have a predisposition to just throw money at problems. Afghan contractors would make a deal to do some construction work, show up, then immediately sit down in protest and demand more money. Sometimes they would threaten to go work with the Taliban if we didn't pay them whatever they wanted.  Army and Police would expect then demand presents and gifts. While there are some aspects of their culture we can't or couldn't change we did manage to teach them to be materialist and greedy.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
but at the end of the day there's a good chance they're still going to stand up and blindly fire off bullets, oblivious to incoming fire. Why?  InShaAllah, if God wills it.  Their views on honour compared to ours, our views on sexual relations with minors compared to theirs.  Our cultures are drastically different and don't overlay well.

I actually value your posts when you say that we shouldn't be banning weapons based solely on how "bad-ass" they look.

But what's this?  You may have lost sight of the mission, soldier.

Paladin1

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
but at the end of the day there's a good chance they're still going to stand up and blindly fire off bullets, oblivious to incoming fire. Why?  InShaAllah, if God wills it.  Their views on honour compared to ours, our views on sexual relations with minors compared to theirs.  Our cultures are drastically different and don't overlay well.

I actually value your posts when you say that we shouldn't be banning weapons based solely on how "bad-ass" they look.

But what's this?  You may have lost sight of the mission, soldier.

 

Could you explain what you mean good sir?

For my part I don't think our training of them was very successful. The Iraq army, for example, was trained by the US (and allied) military including by very intelligent top tier special forces. They were given equipment that puts the Canadian Armed Forces to shame. (seriously, they're way better equipped to us down to their boots) 

When an out numbered rag tag band of an unheard of group called ISIS attacked, the Iraq forces folded and ran away. Litterally dropepd their guns and ran.  Now the US and friends are back and we're told we need to commit resources money and peoplepower (notice I didn't say manpower) to train them, again.  What the heck were we doing for 17 years?  The same with Afghanistan. After all the money resources limbs and lives we pumped into there we're being asked to go back to help train them more? At what point will we say enough is enough, the training mission is a failure. Either go into full invasion mode or leave them alone.

As for the culture thing I've mentioned it before the position our forces are put into while there. Ordered to hand prisoners over to the local police but the police will just murder them.  Afghan officer is having sex with a 12 or 14 year old boy, largely against his will, in full earshot of allied soldiers. Get involved and stop it from happening or ignore it because it's in their culture?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px0tQvldBvw   This soldier chose the former and was discharged from the military for it.

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Could you explain what you mean good sir?

To borrow from Game of Thrones, "I'm not a ser".  But all I mean is that you seem to be generalizing pretty willy-nilly here, and based pretty much solely on religion or nationality.  Saying "Oh, those Afghani recruits are cowards" isn't really helping advance anyone's understanding of what's going on.

Quote:
Afghan officer is having sex with a 12 or 14 year old boy, largely against his will, in full earshot of allied soldiers.

Yes, this.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Paladin you missed the main point of my post. You are getting the dregs of the Afghan society because no self respecting human being from any country works for a foreign government to subjegate their own people.  Their is no moral high ground in being a collaborator, there never is. 

Paladin1

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
Could you explain what you mean good sir?

To borrow from Game of Thrones, "I'm not a ser".  But all I mean is that you seem to be generalizing pretty willy-nilly here, and based pretty much solely on religion or nationality.  Saying "Oh, those Afghani recruits are cowards" isn't really helping advance anyone's understanding of what's going on.

 

I've never seen Game of Thrones so that one is over my head ;)

I didn't mean to imply they're cowards, I don't believe they are at all. If anything they do some pretty brave(read reckless) shit which sort of makes some of them look fearless.  In my opinion them turning tail and running (in the example I gave) is less of a reflection of cowardice than I believe it is a reflection of their training. Lots of factors come into play. Battle innoculation, training, leadership (and lack there of), level of supply (are their cigarettes smoked 3/4 of the way and discarded or smoked right down to the butt). Equipment and support available (these guys had air support and artillery on call).  Lots of reasons why someone would run away BUT considering the amount of time training and resources we invested, it shouldn't have happened with the speed and scale it did.  One might almost conclude that it was orchastrated (I'm not a tin foil hat guy but it seems like a more logical reason for what happened).

We're seeing the same issues in Afghanistan. I think it there needs to be some serious questions asked if we're going to buy into the idea that we need to go back and give them more "training". They're not a democracy and their not a western military.

NDPP

Probably best we don't "buy into the idea that we need to go back..."

https://on.rt.com/8ev6

NDPP

Trump Praises Trudeau For Canada's Increased Military Spending

http://thehill.com/policy/international/338234-trump-praises-trudeau-for...

"President Trump praised Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau on Friday for Canada's announcement it will bolster its military spending, according to the White House. The plan increases Canada's defense budget by 70 percent over the next decade."

Good vassal. Good doggie!

 

Canada's Top General Keeping Door Open to F-35s

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jonathan-vance-f-35-competition-1.4162998

"The chief of the defence staff says he is keeping the F-35 fighter jet on the table as a suitable option to bolster the air force's fleet, despite the Liberal's campaign promise not to buy the jet. The F-35 program has been embroiled in controversy since the Conservative government announced its intention to purchase them in 2010."

 

New Mission Against ISIS Won't Include Sending Troops To Syria: Sajjan

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sajjan-isis-ottawa-2020-1.4164740

"Canada's 200 Special Forces soldiers involved in the fight against ISIS are restricted to operating inside Iraq. But Canada also has a surveillance plane and refuelling aircraft involved in the mission." [Assisting US coalition bombing]

NDPP

Canada Quiet On Russian Threat To Shoot Down Jets in Syria

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/06/19/national-defence-mum-on-russian-...

"There are fears that Canadian military aircraft operating [illegally] over Syria could be caught in the middle of a new and potentially explosive dispute between the US and Russia..."

NDPP

Canadian Elite Special Forces Sniper Sets Record-Breaking Kill Shot in Iraq

https://t.co/IoayLOHU11

Aren't you proud Canada? JTF2 sniper 'killed IS insurgent in Iraq from a distance of 3,450 meters in a feat one military insider says may 'never be equaled."

The RCMP 'ERT' sniper at Gustafsen Lake was somewhat less lucky with  his 'kill-shot' attempts against a Secwepemc Sundancer 'target of opportunity' on his way to bathe in an agreed upon 'no shoot zone' in Sept 1995.  The special rifle was requested and obtained for the RCMP from the Canadian military as per a request from BC's NDP AG/Minister of Human Rights Ujjal Dosanjh, to Solicitor General Herb Gray requesting arms for use against Shuswap Sundancers at Gustafsen Lake.

'I must, therefore, ask that you requisition the following additional equipment from the Canadian Forces: Four (4) .50 calibre McMillan sniper rifles, complete with 4x40 Leupold scopes, accessories and ammunition. Your urgent attention and consideration is appreciated..." Letter Dosanjh to Gray, Sept 1995.

https://youtu.be/2VyXfxF9F_E

10: 55

 

 

Paladin1

Gotta admit that's a pretty skilled shot. Strange though considering we're peacekeepers and only in Iraq as a training role ;)

NDPP

Saudi Arabia Top Non-US Destination For Canadian Arms Exports: Federal Report

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/saudi-arabia-top-non-u-s-destinations-fo...

"Just the fact that the top recipient of Canadian military goods is what is known to be one of the worst human rights violators in the world [and sponsors/funders of international terrorism] must in my view raise questions about the purported strength of Canadian military export controls and the country's commitment to the protection and promotion of human rights internationally ,' said Cesar Jaramillo..." [Project Ploughshares]

NDPP

Record Breaking Sniper Shot in Iraq Should Be 'Celebrated' Trudeau Says

https://t.co/rckKW7k8xD

"...In an interview on Tuesday, Mulcair said he was 'more than surprised to hear the Canadian prime minister say that the killing of another human being is something that should be celebrated. 'The skills of our troops are something that we can all recognize, and that's one thing,' he said. But to use the word 'celebrate' in relation to the killing of another human being doesn't reflect my values."

Statement By Nycole Turmel on Death of Muammar Gaddafi

http://www.ndp.ca/news/statement-nycole-turmel-death-muammar-gaddafi

"Our troops have done a wonderful job in Libya over the past few months. I want to salute the efforts and courage of our troops."

How does bombing a country back to the stone age, safely esconced in a supersonic jetplane high above the unfortunates murdered by your bombs, possibly by any stretch of the imagination, constitute 'courage'?  And Mulcair epitomizes the liberal imperialist sensibility. The 'word' is the problem. Not the act aka 'skills of our troops'. What does he think JTF2 is trained to do, especially with a .50 cal sniper rifle, if not to kill? The NDP will never produce a Corbyn only parodies by bad actors . 

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