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Conservative Condemns CUPW Support of BDS Movement

terrytowel
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Joined: Jan 8 2012

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terrytowel
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Joined: Jan 8 2012

Today is Opporstion Motion Day

The Conseravtives have chose to seek all party support to condemns groups that support the BDS Movement, particularly on University Campuses across Canada.

The NDP opposes this saying it is stifling free speech no matter how much you disagree with the movement. People still have the right to speak out.

But Conservative MP Michelle Rempel challenged that saying she will condemn this movement, even if NDP members won't. Saying she condems CUPW support for the BDS Movement.

Video below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcBQcLj7hz4

 


J. Baglow
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Joined: Jun 12 2005

Next step: make BDS illegal. Bring it, Liberals. Just bring it.


josh
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Joined: Aug 5 2002

So, the Trudeau government intends to join with the Conservatives next week and condemn the United Church of Canada and the Quakers, along with every other organization and individual participating to any degree in a boycott of Israeli goods and services.

Blanket government condemnation is not a very sunny thing to do, and the Liberals, quivering with outrage, are making it clear they really don't want to do it.

But they are going ahead because, apparently, they're being bullied, the poor daisies.

It's just not fair, the things you can be forced to do when you have a parliamentary majority. 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/conservative-motion-bds-macdonald-1.3454...


NDPP
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Joined: Dec 27 2008

 Zionist power and influence, so pervasive across the Canadian political class, must be opposed. I predict an explosion of BDS militancy should this condemnation proceed. These anti-BDS moves  are worldwide and are further powering a renewed determination to oppose and defeat this Jewish State supremacist lobby and its continued defence of an indefensible Israel.

Public Outrage as UK Plans To Label BDS 'Anti-Semitic'

http://www.palestinechronicle.com/public-outrage-as-uk-plans-to-label-bd...


NDPP
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Joined: Dec 27 2008

Criminalizing Actions Against Israeli Occupation  - by Glenn Greenwald

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/35315-criminalizing-activ...

"There is a very coordinated and well-financed campaign led by Israel and its supporters literally to criminalize political activism against Israeli occupation, based on the particular fear that the worldwide campaign of BDS - modeled after the 1980s campaign that brought down the Israel-allied apartheid regime in South Africa - is succeeding."


Arthur Cramer
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Joined: Nov 30 2010

Can we try and focus here? As a Jew, I'm getting really tired of all this Zionist bashing, I'm sorry, its borderline anti-Jewish. Not all Jews are Zionists, but there is no question when you bash "Zionists", you're pretty much basing Jews because that is its effect. Now the issue is really, what the hell is Isreal doing? I'm all for hitting them hard in the pocket back. But lets stop this crap about Zionism. If you object to Israels' conduct, say so. If you bash Zionism, tell us what you mean and tell me why Jews aren't colataeral damge in this. I'm really tired of this. I'm no brain-dead supporter of Israel, but I'm suspsicious of any movement, that, by virture of its exclusion in use of langauge, blanket attacks everyone. I say this is borderline anti-Jewish. I'm tired of it. If you dont care what I think, fine, but be clear with your words and upfront about what you want. I remind all of you of Newmulller. Dont think you'd never need to start looking over your own shoulders. I wouldn't be too smug if I were you.


Rev Pesky
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Joined: May 1 2012

I will not say a word about Zionism here. I will support moves to allow Palestinians to build settlements in Israel, and allow the Palestinians nuclear weapons.

And I challenge anyone who says Israel is 'the Jewish state'. One-fifth of the population of Israel is Arab, and unless one denies their citizenship, Israel cannot be a Jewish state.


brookmere
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Joined: Jun 23 2005

I don't get your argument. For example Eastern Orthodoxy is the constitutional state religion of Greece and I think almost all Greeks would describe it as a Christian state, although one need not belong to the church to be a citizen. The Greek president is requiired to take an oath in the name of the Trinity.

Most Islamic states allow non-muslims to be citizens (Saudi Arabia being a notable exception), and few apart from extremists would argue that means they are not really Islamic.

There's also the example of Buddhism in Thailand.

 


NDPP
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Joined: Dec 27 2008

John Ivison: House United in Violent Agreement on Boycott, Divest, Sanctions Against Israel

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/john-ivison-house-united-in-vi...

"In a debate on Israel Thursday, the parties agreed that the boycott, divestment and sanctions movement against the only democracy in the Middle East is a misguided idea that undermines the prospects of peace.

Liberals have continued to vote against Arab-sponsored Un resolutions targeting the Jewish state and Dion was rock-solid in opposition to BDS.

'We must fight anti-Semitism in all forms,' he said. 'We must oppose the boycott, divest, sanctions campaign in our communities and continue to speak out forcefully against them..."

 

Justin Trudeau Has Israel's Back

https://youtu.be/OTvO_SeTvrU

 

 

Ask Your MP To Vote Against The Anti-Boycott Motion

http://cjpme.nationbuilder.com/aa_2016_02_21

"Last week, a Conservative sponsored motion was launched in Canada's parliament calling for the condemnation of organizations and individuals promoting the 'Boycott Israel' (i.e. BDS) movement. The vote is due to take place Monday, Feb 22, 2016

Please email your member of Parliament and ask him/her to vote against this motion. Even if you see this alert after the 22nd, please go ahead and email your MP, as he/she should still hear how you feel on this issue."

Free Palestine! Boycott Israel!


milo204
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Joined: Feb 3 2010

It's so ironic because every western government fully supports BDS--when they're called sanctions--but pretends it's not a valid form of plitical action when undertaken by their citizens.  I think most reasonable people can see right through this one.

 


milo204
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Joined: Feb 3 2010

Also a good insight into how power thinks:  when they do it, it's noble and we should all applaud even though they're elected by like 30 percent of the people and there is no consultation with the public, it's not an electin issue and a huge propaganda machine goes to work to reminind us how noble the powerful folks are. 

When it's regular people imposing their own limited sanctions--the power system understands it must be stopped and acts accordingly...what BS.

 

Also, since all the parties basically support anti bds bs, even the NDP...at a time when more people than ever are siding with the m ore moderate elements on both the israeli and palestinian side, gives you an idea as to the limitations of our "democratic" system.


alan smithee
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Joined: Jan 7 2010

'anti-semitism' has absolutely no meaning when it's used to tar and feather individuals or groups that condemn a government and/or a country. What next? The 'new anti-christianity' label when a group or individual criticizes the USSA?

Get real.


Arthur Cramer
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Joined: Nov 30 2010

alan smithee wrote:

'anti-semitism' has absolutely no meaning when it's used to tar and feather individuals or groups that condemn a government and/or a country. What next? The 'new anti-christianity' label when a group or individual criticizes the USSA?

Get real.

I don't know who you are aiming that at, but its me, why don't you say so. You make if my assumption is correct. Say what you and mean and be direct or discuss. I don't know if you're Jewish or not, but here goes.

You notice I deliberately did not use the word Antisemitism. That's because people throw it around to stiffle debate. However, it is my opinon that there is a signficant porportion of those who say they are anti-zionist who are anti jewish as well; this has been my life experience talking to many of them. I know I haven't spoken to all of them, but this is my experience. Now, the ideao of Zionism is integral to Jewish belief, and whether you or anyone else believes it or not, it is impossible to divide the two from each other.

Now, I am fully supportive of BDS, view Israel is acting like an apartheid state, and am of the opinion that demagraphics will see the Jewish State of Israel eventually dissapear as a Jewish State; what replaces, who the hell knows? Assuming the Israelis don't go crazy and use nukes, maybe we'll fiind out in our life times. Time and histoery are relentless, and these forces will eventually over whelm the Jewish state.

However, it is my opionon that anyone who thinks the issue of Anit Jewishness is not valid, can, in my opinion, talke a walk. There is a significant degree of anit jewishness that makes up the underpinnning of the ideoly that espouse its "anti Zionism". So, in terms of "getting real". If you aimed at that at me, I'd suggest you do the same. I don't care if that isn't your experience if you are Jewish, or because you aren't Jewish. That isn't my problem, that's yours.

And I say to anyone who'd like to jump on the band wagon here, go ahead. I have no issue, so lets not pertend my post was about suprrssing speech or disucsssion. Considering how much has gone on behind the scenes here by some to have me banned, the idea I'd be opposed to debate is absurd. But, just be a little more carefull about your language, and maybe, a little more honest? OK? OK!

 


alan smithee
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My comment wasn't aimed at you,Arthur. But I appreciate your comment. My main problem with Israel is the Likuds. I've never singled out those who are Jewish. They are not the problem. It's the right wing faction of Israelis and fundamental Christians. They are a sickening bunch.


NDPP
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Joined: Dec 27 2008

Arthur Cramer wrote:

 

Now, I am fully supportive of BDS, view Israel is acting like an apartheid state, and am of the opinion that demagraphics will see the Jewish State of Israel eventually dissapear as a Jewish State; what replaces, who the hell knows? Assuming the Israelis don't go crazy and use nukes, maybe we'll fiind out in our life times. Time and histoery are relentless, and these forces will eventually over whelm the Jewish state.

 

Glad to hear it Arthur. We agree. I have nothing against anyone practicing their religion or ethnicity. I do have something against a small, powerful and well funded lobby  advancing the interests of a foreign power Israel above all else here in Canada, a fact that is now well known to the world and that has made us a notorious, international embarassment in this regard. The fact that our own politicians have apparently been captured by this lobby to do its bidding or vet political candidates in national elections based on their servility to Israeli interests is unacceptable to me and other Canadians.  The racist supremacist settler-nationalism and active ongoing genocide against Palestinians is similarly intolerable and should not be supported by our country.

We are now facing the open treachery of Canadian politicians formulating a process which could criminalize a lawful, Canadian democratic opposition movement on behalf of apartheid Israel. This is what is at issue here. What the hell do people plan to do about it?


Ken Burch
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Joined: Feb 26 2005

Arthur Cramer wrote:

Can we try and focus here? As a Jew, I'm getting really tired of all this Zionist bashing, I'm sorry, its borderline anti-Jewish. Not all Jews are Zionists, but there is no question when you bash "Zionists", you're pretty much basing Jews because that is its effect. Now the issue is really, what the hell is Isreal doing? I'm all for hitting them hard in the pocket back. But lets stop this crap about Zionism. If you object to Israels' conduct, say so. If you bash Zionism, tell us what you mean and tell me why Jews aren't colataeral damge in this. I'm really tired of this. I'm no brain-dead supporter of Israel, but I'm suspsicious of any movement, that, by virture of its exclusion in use of langauge, blanket attacks everyone. I say this is borderline anti-Jewish. I'm tired of it. If you dont care what I think, fine, but be clear with your words and upfront about what you want. I remind all of you of Newmulller. Dont think you'd never need to start looking over your own shoulders. I wouldn't be too smug if I were you.

The best way to combat the hostility to "Zionism" as a concept, Arthur, is for those who identify as Zionists or "Pro-Israel" to make their voices heard, publicly and LOUDLY, calling on the Israeli government to stop doing what it is doing to Palestinians-to stop the settlement expansion, to stop the land theft, to stop the collective punishment. 

Zionism as a concept gets blamed(and distorted-a lot of people on the Israeli right and their allies in the Diaspora now basically argue that a person isn't a "Zionist" if they don't support keeping the IDF in the West Bank for the rest of eternity and building enough settlements-there are nearly enough now-to make the creation of a Palestinian state impossible) because Netanyahu and his outside enablers have been brilliant at creating the false impression that all Israelis, all supporters of Zionism, the world's Jewish communities as a whole-are unquestioning supporters of what the Israeli Right does and that all regard any criticism of those actions as an attack against Jewish people as a group.

People who support Israel's existence, whoever they may be, need to stand up and tell the LIkudniks and their allies to STOP equating all criticism of Israel with hatred of Jews, and to stop trying to silence all public discussion of the Occupation and the illegal settlements. 

If there was a mass public rejection in the "pro-Israel" community, of the hardline policies and the efforts of the Israeli propaganda machine to silence and demonize all dissent about those policies, an entirely different set of feelings about Zionism would emerge. 

Antizionism is a largely a product of despair about the possibility of that kind of pro-Israel activism ever making itself heard.


Rev Pesky
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brookmere wrote:

I don't get your argument. For example Eastern Orthodoxy is the constitutional state religion of Greece and I think almost all Greeks would describe it as a Christian state, although one need not belong to the church to be a citizen. The Greek president is requiired to take an oath in the name of the Trinity.

Most Islamic states allow non-muslims to be citizens (Saudi Arabia being a notable exception), and few apart from extremists would argue that means they are not really Islamic.

There's also the example of Buddhism in Thailand.

I am opposed to all state religions, and for the same reason. State religions create tiers of citizenship. There's a reason the writers of the US constitution expressly forbade the state from establishing a religion. They had experience of it in their original country.

But how about the argument for allowing Palestinians to build settlements in Israel?

 


iyraste1313
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Joined: Jan 18 2014

of course thery will criminalize BDS...so it will go underground...then watch Bill C51 kick in.......they only need next to perfect their mind reading devices to catch us before we advocate....no doubt it´s coming


terrytowel
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Joined: Jan 8 2012

The two Liberal MPs who voted against the BDS motion were Larry Bagnell (Yukon) and Rene Arseneault (Madawaska–Restigouche)

58 Liberal MPs skipped the vote.

 


josh
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Joined: Aug 5 2002
And more than double that amount voted for it. Gutless Trudeau and the majority of his caucus.

terrytowel
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Joined: Jan 8 2012

josh wrote:
And more than double that amount voted for it. Gutless Trudeau and the majority of his caucus.

The NDP voted against condemning the BDS movement.

But at least Trudeau let a free vote on the issue (three Lib MPs voting with the NDP), and over 50 Lib MP DID NOT show up to vote (even though the vote was free)

Did the NDP whip their vote?


lagatta
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Joined: Apr 17 2002

Arthur, I know that Zionism did not mean just the way the Israeli government is acting now. Though remember that Zionism was long a minority movement among Jewish communities in European (not to say Maghrebi and Middle-Eastern) countries. I also know that whatever people thought of Zionism before the war (as per the very critical opinions voiced by Freud, Einstein and other Jews who weren't exactly stupid!) it was a lifeline for the people in DP camps who had survived the Shoah.

Anti-semitism is, of course, disgusting racism, and we've seen its resurgence among some of the "9-11 truthers", and of course the followers of Daesh. But the idea that people who advocate peaceful means of protests about the deplorable behaviour of the Israeli government and the nutcase fundie settlers (the Brooklynite equivalent of Daesh, with similar attitudes towards women and gay people) are somehow anti-Jewish is an insult not only to me but to all my Jewish friends from Paris to Buenos Aires who say "Not in My Name".


iyraste1313
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from Boycott Israel...You die......Richard Edmundson......

So where is all this leading us? How long before referring to Israel as an apartheid state, or saying the words “free Palestine,” are also made illegal? Perhaps a Jewish lobby will one day succeed in having the kaffiyeh banned as well, perhaps on the grounds that so adorning oneself in public will constitute “hate speech” or “discrimination.”

Israel is more than simply a small cubicle of totalitarian rule where young girls are shot in the street and men in wheelchairs are turned upside down. What is growing increasingly clear is that gradually, piece by piece and country by country, the whole world is coming under its control and the control of its billionaire Jewish supporters.

How such a smothering trend can be turned back and reversed is a matter worthy of debate, but it’s important for people to realize that this struggle is no longer simply about winning the freedom of Palestinians–for the Zionist yoke is around all our necks now.


lagatta
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Joined: Apr 17 2002

Oh cripes. I've been involved in Palestine solidarity for decades, but iyraste's antisemitic tropes are no help to the Palestinian people, to put it mildly.

Tropes about the international Jewish conspiracy are really, really not useful, again to put it very mildly:

What is growing increasingly clear is that gradually, piece by piece and country by country, the whole world is coming under its control and the control of its billionaire Jewish supporters.

Who are you, Henry Ford?

 


iyraste1313
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Joined: Jan 18 2014

read the article...coincidence that every western country is passing anti BDS anti freedom of speech and association legislation?

Are you not outraged about this?

Of course I can understand the zionist movements desperate panic to stop the BDS movement at any cost...it is a very successful threat and a very powerful movement...

please no more bs anti semitic stuff...if you have info to counter the info presented then offer it!


lagatta
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Joined: Apr 17 2002

Of course I'm outraged about the anti-BDS motion. If you had read me, that would have been obvious.


mark_alfred
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I posted some of the debate from the House about this in the "Trudeaumeter 2" (post #185).  Dion was the main mouthpiece for the Liberals.  At one point he says the Libs support it because it's important to get a free trade deal with Israel, and they don't want to do anything to jeopardize that. 


alan smithee
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Joined: Jan 7 2010

I don't care. The government is not going to shut me up and can't stop me from refraining from buying anything from Israel. I say good luck to them,their policy won't stop me. Israel is an Apartheid state verging on a terrorist state. And I will continue to scream that fact.

BTW,fuck the Liberals.

ETA Has anyone else noticed all the exposure the media has been giving the Conservatives? I don't remember the NDP getting a tenth of it when they were the official opposition. And so far,the Cons have been getting their way to the point that I feel they are still the official government of Canada.

The Liberals are a joke. With a majority they could and should have told them to sit down and shut up and pushed ahead with their promises and agenda. Clearly,that ain't gonna happen.


6079_Smith_W
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Joined: Jun 10 2010

lagatta wrote:

Tropes about the international Jewish conspiracy are really, really not useful, again to put it very mildly

No kidding. It basically gives these governments all the ammunition they need.

I can't believe the number of times I have seen the old Rothschild lie online recently, and how some boneheads just buy it.

 

 


6079_Smith_W
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Joined: Jun 10 2010

x

 


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