Does anyone know where Jack's been?
April 20, 2009 - 12:08pm
The Hill Times, April 20, 2009
Does anyone know where Jack's been?
Since the collapse of the coalition idea, NDP Leader Jack Layton has basically limited his political activities to mourning the death of his dream.
By Angelo Persichilli
TORONTO-Does anyone know where Jack Layton's been? While federal Liberals and Conservatives are elbowing for positioning in the next federal election, it appears the NDP leader has fallen off the federal political radar screen. Since the collapse of his initiative of a centre-left coalition with the Liberals and the Bloc Québécois, Layton has basically limited his political activities to mourning the death of his dream.
Here is the link.
http://www.thehilltimes.ca/html/index.php?display=story&full_path=2009/april/20/backrooms/&c=2
It's best not to reproduce entire articles on babble. Please include only a relevant paragraph or two.
It's best not to reproduce entire articles on babble. Please include only a relevant paragraph or two.
Thanks.
Michelle is right.
But this "article" was pretty short and lightweight.
Its your standard format for criticisng the NDP on slow news days.
You know- the pro forma "I hope the leader of the NDP has used this Parliamentary break to prepare a strategy that goes beyond the rhetoric of criticism." And the "deadly mistakes" made- that no one except political junkies remember a month later.
And then sprinlked with some stuff where you just fill in the blanks with details from specific events at the time. The details change, but not the narrative or the structure.
Of course there is going to be an argument that there is some truth in what is said. Pretty safe place to sit. And what grain of truth there is certainly isn't anything new. [Goes with safe and easy to do when there's nothing else handy.]
And then there's the poster of said article, who joins Babble with just one apparent purpose in mind.
From the article:
In the meantime the government, with the help of the Liberals, is working hard to help Canadians to go through these difficult times with the NDP present only through an empty rhetoric in the House.
Wow - that is harsh.That's why the NDP and Layton have become irrelevant and their absence in the daily news is the first concerning symptom. And, more concerning than Layton's absence, is the fact that nobody notices it.
In the past few weeks I noticed Mulcair more than Jack. Does the media seek him out while ignoring Layton?
Fluff and feathers propaganda for the corporate fascism machine and nothing more.
"In the meantime the government, with the help of the Liberals, is working hard to help Canadians to go through these difficult times with the NDP present only through an empty rhetoric in the House."
It's as if he cannot forgive the NDP for refusing to bow and scrape in gratitude for Harper's great benevolence during "these troubled times". How dare the NDP not help Harper is great quest to help the underpriviliged!!! (sic.)
Appears in the Toronto Star a lot, also writes for or edits an Italian-Canadian newspaper too, I think.
Michelle is right.
But this "article" was pretty short and lightweight.
Its your standard format for criticisng the NDP on slow news days.
You know- the pro forma "I hope the leader of the NDP has used this Parliamentary break to prepare a strategy that goes beyond the rhetoric of criticism." And the "deadly mistakes" made- that no one except political junkies remember a month later.
And then sprinlked with some stuff where you just fill in the blanks with details from specific events at the time. The details change, but not the narrative or the structure.
Of course there is going to be an argument that there is some truth in what is said. Pretty safe place to sit. And what grain of truth there is certainly isn't anything new. [Goes with safe and easy to do when there's nothing else handy.]
And then there's the poster of said article, who joins Babble with just one apparent purpose in mind.
And what is that? I like posting topics which provide the opportunity to take an objective look at certain subjects.
objective???
Not much objective about it. Superficial partisan crap. A bit of filler written by someone who wouldn't want to see the MSM accused of never mentioning the NDP, even if their obsevations are as rare as they are worthless.
Say Debater, I notice you're not really debating.
BTW, in answer to the thread title, last thursday Jack was in my riding, Oshawa, at St. Stephen's United Church.
And "certain subjects"?
And its a coincidence that the minute you arrive the common thread is taking pot shots at the NDP?
I take LOTS of pot shots at the Liberals. But I show other interests around here. Not to mention that I bring nn small amount of new material to those potshots... I doubt I would be accused of wandering in just to stir the pot with rehashes.
And "certain subjects"?
And its a coincidence that the minute you arrive the common thread is taking pot shots at the NDP?
I take LOTS of pot shots at the Liberals. But I show other interests around here. Not to mention that I bring nn small amount of new material to those potshots... I doubt I would be accused of wandering in just to stir the pot with rehashes.
I haven't taken any "pot shots" against the NDP. The above article is not mine, but I thought it was interesting because it highlights a potential problem the NDP may have.
Most of my other posts here so far have mainly been about the Outremont riding.
What I am seeing though is that it's hard for certain people to engage in objective analysis - it's important to be able to do that if you want to be successful in the next election.
ah, the old Liberal "where's jack" meme surfacing again after the last election. this author is a known NDP basher, i stopped reading his columns ages ago. all the usual tripe repacked for the current issue/rant of the day.
so...where's jack been? hmmm...i was with him on Tuesday at the screening for Downstream, the first showing at the Bloor Cinema, and then the second at Innes College just down the road. It's a short documentary about the effects on the environment and community downstream from the tarsands. it was followed by a panel discussion and was packed for both showings.
i think his recent double knee surgery might have kept his profile low of late too. might explain the Mulclair observation. but hey, if Jack can be bashed, he will!
I didn't know he had knee surgery.
Neither did I. I guess Jack and Olivia have both had some health concerns over the past few years. I remember Lloyd Robertson and Craig Oliver talking about it when they were both elected together finally on the January 2006 election night coverage.
Appears in the Toronto Star a lot, also writes for or edits an Italian-Canadian newspaper too, I think.
Angelo Persichilli is in fact the Editor of that paper, Corriere Canadiense, and is very well connected in the Liberal Party. He's actually well worth reading when writing about the Liberals, because he knows them so well and is a reasonably astute political analyst. But he's not a big NDP fan, to say the least, and I doubt he did a lick of research before making the claim that he apparently already wanted to make right off the top of the column.
Others have pointed out what Layton's been up to, and I've seen quite a few interesting local news stories online about those travels myself, including Oshawa, Halifax and various other spots.
I can see that Debater is keen to post Liberal-friendly articles and see how upset Dippers will be with them. Sorry: no sale.
Appears in the Toronto Star a lot, also writes for or edits an Italian-Canadian newspaper too, I think.
Angelo Persichilli is in fact the Editor of that paper, Corriere Canadiense, and is very well connected in the Liberal Party. He's actually well worth reading when writing about the Liberals, because he knows them so well and is a reasonably astute political analyst. But he's not a big NDP fan, to say the least, and I doubt he did a lick of research before making the claim that he apparently already wanted to make right off the top of the column.
Others have pointed out what Layton's been up to, and I've seen quite a few interesting local news stories online about those travels myself, including Oshawa, Halifax and various other spots.
I can see that Debater is keen to post Liberal-friendly articles and see how upset Dippers will be with them. Sorry: no sale.
I have posted ONE article so far, and it's not meant to be friendly to any political party. Chill out.
No it is meant to be unfreindly to 1 specific party based upon nothings. And by the very nature of the piece it is friendly to 1 particular party.
(emphasis in bolding mine)
Bingo. That's all we need to know.
The point here is not to focus on the author's connections, but on the developing trend that the NDP has lost political ground and could get squeezed out by the 2 big parties.
Remember, the important thing is to focus on the bigger picture, and not attacking something just because you don't like what it says.
The point here is not to focus on the author's connections, but on the developing trend that the NDP has lost political ground and could get squeezed out by the 2 big parties.
Remember, the important thing is to focus on the bigger picture, and not attacking something just because you don't like what it says.
the point of an op-ed, or opinion piece as they are properly described, is precisely to focus on the author's connections, as it provides context for the reader as to why they are writing the op-ed in the first place. unfortunately in this case, there was no disclaimer at the bottom of the article, so he looks like one of thier staff writers, though he is not.
the NDP hasn't lost any "political ground" with it's base of voters. on the contrary, if you look at the polling numbers of late, the party is polling at between 15-17% nationally, where it typically does between elections, when support heads north of 18% due to the increased coverage.
the "bigger picture" is that very coverage. Angelo Persichilli can likely get whatever ravings pour out of his mind printed without much trouble. as a well connected Liberal insider, he has a ready forum in the Star, and obviously has friends at the Hill Times. the man has the worst grammar of any editorialist going, and his articles are heavy on opinion, and not a well informed one, that ususally repeats verbatim whatever current trendy political whim or theory going, but in a populist, man of the people writing style.
The reason the NDP drops out of the media cycle between elections is because the media in Canada can't stand us, and wouldn't even report what we have to say during elections if they didn't have to. Consider ownership. Canwest is owned by the Aspers, and both David and Leonard shill quite publicly for the Conservatives and Harper, either as campaign co-chairs or hosts of fundraising events, or just putting an editorial chill on anything they don't like. They own approximately 80% of the media outlets in the country. Quebecor, or the Sun Media chain, is solidly Conservative, and right wing populist. At one time it was chaired by Brian Mulroney himself, and Quebecor is intimately tied into the ruling business elite of the land. Torstar, owner of the Toronto Star, are avowedly declared Liberal. The Globe and Mail's bread and butter is business. It's target reader demographic is intentionally the well heeled business elite who vote Conservative or Liberal, depending on their geographic location. All of these media owners can't stand the NDP. we are anathema to everything they stand for editorially, and are their favourite socialist punching bag. Jack is the figurehead for that dislike.
I'm not wearing a tinfoil hat here. this is plain fact. it would be interesting to see our polling numbers if the MSM reported on the every conversation and press release and fart that the NDP made, like they do the Cons and Libs, and did it all the time, not just at elections. my guess is we'd have a solid three party contest in Ottawa.
eta: the decline in NDP between elections is part of what has become an established media cycle, for the reasons i describe above. the irony is, that each election since 2004 when Layton became leader, the punditry comes out of the woodwork declaring him irrelevant to the national picture, a washed up urban socialist peddling a tired product, and each time they ignore the glaring fact....that every election Jack has come out with a stronger message and increased our seats. Now, in the business circles the Cons and LIbs cater to, this would be considered a resounding record of success. but that would be to acknowledge the elephant in the room, now wouldn't it?
Hey farnival!! Good to see you! Kick off your shoes and stay a while!
The point here is not to focus on the author's connections, but on the developing trend that the NDP has lost political ground and could get squeezed out by the 2 big parties.
Remember, the important thing is to focus on the bigger picture, and not attacking something just because you don't like what it says.
Debater, I believe this is *your* point, but you can hardly be surprised when you drop by a mostly-lefty NDP board, post a lot of pro-Liberal, anti-NDP topics and get a bit of biteback.
I'm certainly happy to engage you for awhile, but at a certain point, you don't get to set all the parameters of the discussion.
What's Jack been? Well, he was on Don Newman's Politics programme tonight, as sharp as ever.
Oshawa?
This it totally off-topic, but frankly this thread deserves it. Today for the first time I noticed that people like PB, Wilf and others have little lines in their status secition. How the heck did that happen? I feel so uncool.
ETA -thanks I was shown how to get to eat at the cool kids table in the Caf.
Bang On, Farnival.
It's easy to become discouraged when one becomes set upon for offering up a somewhat unpopular OP, especially when the title itself unflatteringly contains the name of the dear leader himself. Anyways, if you care to look around, you'll find no shortage of criticism here pertaining to NDP policies and direction. It's just a matter of bracing oneself for the follow on.
Its not the criticism itself, which is pretty banal.
If it bit it would get a larger and substantive reaction.
It is someone coming who appears to have only one interest in practice, but at the same time calls themselves 'objective'. We've seen it before. "Just an observor." Etc.
Yes, I suppose a person who seldom posts, or is new, and thus has minimal input, would appear to have few interests of note. And political objectivity is now in vogue is it? That'll be the day.
Jack hasn't been in London. That despite a March visit from Harper and a very recent visit from Iggy. Jack needs to remember Irene Mathyssen is on an shakey island. She's working like a demon and could use a visit.
Or is this supposed to be Jack love-fest? Sorry to interrupt the slamming of the posted article.
I think there is a significant difference between the necessity to be getting out to areas and/or ridings like you point out Farmpunk and what the article is suggesting. The article is suggesting that Layton, since the failed coalition, has been sulking in the corner nursing his beer doing nothing. That is patently false. And given the author's continual tirades of this nature for many years it isn't worth the neurons it takes to read it.
Now a question of whether or not the NDP or the NDP Leader is paying enough attention to certain regions I think that is well worth considering.
How can a piece of fluff be 'slammed'.
I read the 'article' before it was posted here. If I though it had bite I probably would have posted it and commented on it- although unlikely a new thread.
I've even posted stuff Kinsella wrote- despite how much his glib bullshitting irritates me.
By the way. Today Steele- who is definitely not a fluff writer- put up 2 blogs on the Globe about the NDPs 'problems'
And the Liberal bloggers are talking about the referendum rumour. Which might be true, and I can see the sense in it. But a better guess is that it will turn out to be just a rumour.
A rumour that will still have legs as reviving the 'NDP props up Harper' red herring- distracting from the fact the Liberals are still the masters of that and will be for at least months still. The Lib blogs have the alternate universe of 'maybe Layton will deny Iggy his "dream of an election in the Fall." !!
Steele even muses that maybe its because the NDP is financial strained. Concidence I suppose that its a fact that the Liberals are financialy strained while the NDP has probably completely paid off its modest campaign debt a while back? Coincidence I suppose that the Lib Convention is in 2 weeks and there are lots of questions buzzing around about said finances... and has been lots of spinning and obfuscation for weeks that things are just peachy? Coincidence that the LPC structural reforms are in limbo?
Must be time for Kinsella to weigh in.
Sorry my comments don't pass your strict standards, KenS.
I just thought if the conversation was going to veer into a bigger, bash the msm and so forth, that comments outside the OP were fair game.
Where is Jack? Watching movies in Toronto?
FP, you live in the boonies, there is no reason for city folk will come to your part of the province.
Last time I checked London isn't in the boonies (what the heck is the origin of that word). FP asks a legitimate question, much more legitimate than the original article.
BA, you are correct that the original article is not very legitimate.
I am not sure where the term boonies came from.
Yes, I know London is not in the boonies.
Maybe it's not to us, but to some maybe London is the boonies!
How is the weather in your part of province? I was home a few weeks ago, however it was hard to tell if the water levels were low this year.
Are farm prices dropping any?
Wet and cold the last few days which is playing havoc on our chicks.
Been on the land for a bit before yesterday, but still a bit early on the clay. Our creek and the river seems closer to 'normal' this year than the last few years.
I haven't seen a drop in any prices, but then where I am there is lots of pressure from the Point and retiring city escapees buying up a hundred acres for the horse.
I am glad, water levels are better this year.
I am still looking for a place, there seems to be some reductions in price in central Grey this year, I doubt it will last long.
Like so much else, it comes form imperialism. It's short for boondocks, which is s corruption of the Filipino (Tagalog) word for mountains. Used by a former US army of occupation to mean remote, and hence unimportant.
Thanks Ze.
Maybe it's not to us, but to some maybe London is the boonies!
When I lived in Toronto, a number of my friends considered everything north of Bloor Street to be the boonies - :).
I suppose when London-Fanshawe goes Conservative next election, then it will become the boonies to most progressives.
Relatedly off topic. BA, checked out the lastest Ontario Farmer? A rep from a GTA ecological group slams ALUS because it pays farmers. "Deeply flawed", apparently.
Jack Layton effectively out parried in question period. While asking for a "2nd" stimulus package, the Conservative government effectively pointed out the NDP didn't support the 1st package.
The question was a lob ball and was hit out of the park. Whoever formed the basis of that question should have anticipated the reply forthcoming. If one wants to look hypocritical on the evening news, Mr. Layton effectively did just that, and the government gets off the hook.
Stimulus is soon going to become a bad word like "coalition", because people won't be able to realize that this first round of "TAX CUTS" has been worded as "STimulus" and it isn't going to change the direction of the economy, other then get the government deep in debt.
Jack appears to have been on the road doing a better job in meeting people across the country and communicating with them, then that minor setback in question period, that the news uses to help form public opinion.
"While asking for a "2nd" stimulus package, the Conservative government effectively pointed out the NDP didn't support the 1st package."
The obvious retort is that the NDP didn't support the 1st stimulus package on the grounds that it didn't go far enough - so it makes sense to ask for more stimulus.
I suppose when London-Fanshawe goes Conservative next election, then it will become the boonies to most progressives.
Relatedly off topic. BA, checked out the lastest Ontario Farmer? A rep from a GTA ecological group slams ALUS because it pays farmers. "Deeply flawed", apparently.
Yep, working on a response to it. Foolish really when you consider the collective action that has taken place to clean up the environmental messes in urban areas. I guess what is good for the goose isn't allowable for the gander to paraphrase an old saying.
Good, consider attaching Farmpunk to the reply. I considered penning my own, but I will gladly defer to the more eloquent and knowlegeable. Slamming one of the more foward thinking programs I've run across just seems like a deeply flawed idea itself.
Back to Jack.
I wonder if he's lost his taste for the London region after a poor showing of progressives, and people period, when he was in St Thomas a week before the January budget. Mathyssen will need a visit before long, however. She's working too hard for the NDP to not get recognized for her endless efforts.
"While asking for a "2nd" stimulus package, the Conservative government effectively pointed out the NDP didn't support the 1st package."
The obvious retort is that the NDP didn't support the 1st stimulus package on the grounds that it didn't go far enough - so it makes sense to ask for more stimulus.
It certainly does. However, I am not certain if there was an "obvious" retort, or not because the media only captured the CPC response to the question.
Jack's been touring across Canada..... Doing town halls and taking notes from real people across the country on the effect it has had on communities and listening to suggestions from real people on how to fix what the current government is NOT doing.
http://www.ndp.ca/video/new-democrats-getting-down-to-work-helping-middle-class-most-vulnerable
Mojoroad1
I am curious where these town halls meetings have been held?
Those people in the video you linked do not appear to be any of the types of folks in rural areas that I have been associated with.
Sorry my comments don't pass your strict standards, KenS.
I just thought if the conversation was going to veer into a bigger, bash the msm and so forth, that comments outside the OP were fair game.
Where is Jack? Watching movies in Toronto?
Farmpunk, did you check the link to the movie in question, Downstream, before you made your snarky comment? doesn't seem like it. as for the "veering" into bashing the MSM, as if that was off topic, the question was "does anyone know where jack's been?" he may well have been in the London area, but my point is that very few people would ever know about it, at any time, as the MSM just does not pay any attention or devote any lineage to the NDP, unless it is to report on something that in their opinion makes us look bad. that is the point. the author of the article in the opening post is a prime example.
How's Belleville, ON, Kenora, ON, Truro, NS, Sussex, NB, and Charlottetown, PE for you?
Plus earlier this year, he was also going to a lot of other non-incumbent ridings, including a number of rural ones.
I might be missing the point, because there might have been an implied ;-) at the end of your comment, Webgear.
But I will say that in general, I've been delighted to see Layton and the Caucus spending most of their touring time in ridings we don't hold (although you do have to do media centres as well).
I personally would not call Belleville, ON, Kenora, ON, Truro, NS, Sussex, NB, and Charlottetown, PE rural communities.
I would call them large urban centres. It is nice to see Mr. Layton visiting areas which do not hold NDP MPs.
Wikipedia claims that "Boonies" is derived from "Boondocks", which is a corruption of the Phillipine or Tagalog word "Bundok" literally translated as "mountain".
London qualifies for many things, but I'm not sure "boonies" is one of them, at least not from a babble context.
Anyway, for the media to say "where's Jack" it's the equivelent of "Nelson" from "The Simpson's" grabbing "Millhouses" hand and saying "quit hittin' yerself."
But, it's nothing to get upset about, as the main stream media is caught in a whirl pool of it's own creation, sucking itself into tighter and tighter circles of irrelevance.
Jack should do more Youtube, and we should pay attention to who advertises in these publications, and inform them that as long as they are advertising in idjit newspapers, we won't be buying their products or services.
It's easy to become discouraged when one becomes set upon for offering up a somewhat unpopular OP, especially when the title itself unflatteringly contains the name of the dear leader himself. Anyways, if you care to look around, you'll find no shortage of criticism here pertaining to NDP policies and direction. It's just a matter of bracing oneself for the follow on.
I see.
I was just pointing out that I have only posted one article so far that can be considered critical of the NDP. I also posted an article critical of the Liberals (their bad attendance record) and yet it doesn't have any replies last time I looked.
There is a fair bit of experience here with trolls who have no purpose other than to stir things up. Leaving aside that some people use the word 'troll' very loosely.
You fit the pattern, not just for this opening post. Pattern being an apparent sole interest in stirring up, and having just joined babble in time to make said comments.
The reaction does not come just from posing critical questions. In fact, the most likely thing to get a dismissive reaction is not what is most critical, but the criticism thats been heard a thousand times before... and often comes from people who seem to be just tossing it off.
It is easier to respect a person who after going through the trouble to register actually posts something with substance. Many people here have differences and will post substantive arguments but a question like where is someone lately is obviously a silly comment-- perhaps Layton was preparing something. The point is that leadership is held to account over a long period not short term in public. Strategy is not an open book.
As I have said elsewhere, I think the last campaign was good, the initial coalition work was good but a mistake was made on the budget tactics. A good adviser might tell a leader who has made a mistake but has good long-term branding to go out and get other publicity or might say since there is no election soon, now is the time to lie low and do some strategy and adjust the brand after a break. It is quite stupid to judge a leader on public profile over such a short time never mind the fact that a short break from the limelight is one way to reset the message.
It is easier to respect a person who after going through the trouble to register actually posts something with substance. Many people here have differences and will post substantive arguments but a question like where is someone lately is obviously a silly comment.
It's not a comment - it's the title of the author's article.
Mojoroad1
I am curious where these town halls meetings have been held?
Those people in the video you linked do not appear to be any of the types of folks in rural areas that I have been associated with.
Well for one, he was in Muskoka not too long ago... I can give you a dvd if you like. He had solid knowledge of the situation in the area.... and was taking notes.... he's been to many rural and urban communities across Canada.
Relatedly off topic. BA, checked out the lastest Ontario Farmer? A rep from a GTA ecological group slams ALUS because it pays farmers. "Deeply flawed", apparently.
Yep, working on a response to it. Foolish really when you consider the collective action that has taken place to clean up the environmental messes in urban areas. I guess what is good for the goose isn't allowable for the gander to paraphrase an old saying.
really, what is up with "ecologists", starting this recent slam fest against rural people? It is happening in BC too. As apparently rural preople/farmers are the roots of all environmental problems and only city folk are doing it right and keeping carbon foot prints low.
Eliza asked for some proof when someone asserted this in another thread, of course she did not receive a reply, but really where the hell is it coming from, and why?
The Press Gallery must have decided that it's "the NDP is falling" week again. This piece has about as much substance as Hebert's piece about the alleged panic being shown by the party. In fact, Jack has been pretty much everywhere since the collapse of the coalition -- including in the House of Commons voting against what the agenda of "the government, with the help of the Liberals".
Don't worry. Next week, they'll go back to ignoring us... until the next time they can't think of anything else to write. Then there will be another round of "the NDP is irrelevant" and/or "the NDP is on the verge of collapse" columns.
And we know exactly what Iggy's been up to since seizing control of the other wing of the conservative party. Liberal, Tory, it's the same old story for the last 14 decades in a row.
Of course if the NDP actually was so "irrelevant" why are all these pundits writing all these lengthy articles about the party??? Back when the NDP actually was irrelavant in the 90s under the two AMs - you could tell becuase no one could be bothered to write articles about the NDP at all.
"There is no such thing as bad publicity"
I agree with the youtube, even though I never use it, unless absolutely necessary.
And I figure that part of Canwest's problems are because of advertisers boycotts. They let it slip in one release they were having a hard time getting advertisers and blammed the economy. So let's move forward and boycott more msm advertisers.
Tories court Bloc and NDP in bid to hold onto power
On Wednesday, Parliament witnessed a bizarre move when the Conservatives voted in favour of a Bloc motion that transfers $2.6 billion to Quebec and allows the province to administer its own sales tax.
Meanwhile, NDP Leader Jack Layton appears open to the idea of working with the Tories. However, his support is contingent on the condition that Ottawa deliver EI reform, provide stricter credit card regulations and increase pension protection.
Jack Layton is still the effective opposition leader