Erin Weir accused of "harassment"

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Aristotleded24

jerrym wrote:
It amazes me that so many posters on the left cite the 68 former Saskatchewan NDP MPs and MLAs support of Weir while criticizing Singh for not being left-wing enough when the Saskatchewan NDP was largely neoliberal in the Romanow and Calvert governments from the 1990s onwards, as the following article written in 2012 demonstrates.

Not everything is about ideology. It is basic group leadership and how people treat one another. I'll also note that these Saskatchewan politicians are also coming to a defense of an MP who was on the left flank of the party.

jerrym wrote:
I suspect the former NDP Saskatchewan legislators oppose Singh on much more than the Weir issue and are particularly opposed to his opposition to the Trans Mountain pipeline, just as they have opposed meaningful reductions in greenhouse gases in a province with the second largest fossil fuel industry and are using Weir to push back on Singh on his Trans Mountain pipeline decision. Meanwhile, the 2014 global average temperature broke the all-time historical record, which in turn was broken by the 2015 global average record, which in turn was broken by the 2016 global average temperature record.

However, I guess we can all relax because 2017 was only the second worst global average temperature record and only seventeen of the top warmest eighteen years have occurred since 2000. No need to be concerned about 88,000 people had to flee Fort MacMurrray in 2016 because of wildfires even though environmental scientists and computer generated models predicted these kind of outcomes of continuing use of fossil fuels; no need for concern for about the thousands who had to leave their homes due to wildfires in Saskatchewan in 2018; no need for concern for the 65,000 who had to flee their homes in BC in 2017 record setting wildfires that burned an area more than twice the size of Prince Edward Island; and no need to be concerned about the 12,984 square kilometres and still growing in size, an area 2.3 times the size of Prince Edward Island, burnt by 2018 BC wildfires that broke the 2017 record.

I've read some of Erin Weir's work, and he seems like a smart person. If only he could be elected as an NDP MP, he could help shape public policy to reduce GHG emissions while providing vialbe economic alternatives for provinces like Saskatchewan and Alberta.

Notalib
jerrym

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Do you all understand what is happening here? We have a Conservative party flirting with far-right racist elements. We have a Liberal government that is going ahead with the Kinder Morgan pipeline in BC against all opposition, and is not putting forward its best negotiating foot with the NAFTA renegotiations. Meanwhile, BC went up in flames, we have had record heat from the Rocky Mountains to the east coast which killed a large number of people in Quebec, Manitoba has been under drought conditions for a year, and Lake Winnipeg is at a low level I have never seen. I still see people begging for change on the streets when I go out. The quality of jobs has not improved. First Nations are still without clean drinking water. We are still struggling to integrate the large influx of refugees we've seen fleeing both the Syrian civil war and entering Canada through unconventional means. And yet, what is the NDP in the news for? Not for challenging the 2 big parties or proposing solutions to any of the issues I mentioned, but a civil war that is only getting worse and is not going to go away no matter how the NDP establishment wishes it so. This kind of thing is only distracting the party for focusing on the things that really matter.

It's time to get back to work, let Weir back into Caucus, and let's work together to fix these things.

 

Do you seriously think the people screaming for Singh's head would stop if he let Weir back into caucus?

Some of them can't even stand the clothes he wears. Some don't like his bringing new members into the party because they believe many of them joined  based more on a common ethnic background than their political philosophy. Some are deeply opposed to his anti-Trans Mountain pipeline policy because they see it hurting the party's chances in their region, despite all of the evidence that global warming is already having disastrous consequences here, such as the damage done in Fort MacMurray in 2016 by wildfires, and in record-breaking 2016 and 2017 wildfire years, as well as around the world. 

Do you think the MSM would praise such an act or call Singh weak and indecisive for changing his mind?

 

Aristotleded24

jerrym wrote:
Some don't like his bringing new members into the party because they believe many of them joined  based more on a common ethnic background than their political philosophy.

What new members has he actually brought into the party? The party's fundraising and public opinion figures since his election are abysmal.

jerrym wrote:
Do you think the MSM would praise such an act or call Singh weak and indecisive for changing his mind?

As far as I recall, once he was in the race the MSM practically declared him the inevitable winner, even though previously he had no name recognition outside of the GTA. It was also the MSM who made a big issue of Singh's fashion choices.

It's not the MSM I'm worried about. It's the fact that many people within the NDP are feeling frustrated. So many people on these boards who staunchly supported the NDP in the past have declared that next year they will either vote for other parties or will not vote at all. You can say that just a few babble posters won't make a difference, but consider this. In the last election, Daniel Blaikie barely took the eastern Winnipeg riding of Elmwood-Transcona from the Conservatives. I volunteered on that campaign. Would you rather the NDP have tried to win that seat with my help or without?

And the main thrust of this post is that the Weir debacle has actually distracted from the issues that affect people’s lives, including climate change.

jerrym

During the leadership campaign the NDP membership tripled from 41,000 to 124,0000, mainly from new members brought into the party by Singh. All parties lose many of their new members after a leadership campaign. (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ndp-leadership-members-1.4265642)

In the seven of the eight polls immediately before the selection of Singh as party leader the NDP was polling between 14.5% and 16.0% (September 8th to October 1st, 2017 with one outlier of 20%).  In seven of nine polls from July 20th to August 20th, 2018 the NDP received 17.8% to 20.1% with the two others at 17.3% (July 26th) and 15% (August 12th). In other words, until less than a month ago the NDP had increased its support since Singh was chosen leader and was polling near its 2015 election support of 19.7% despite the two years in which it was adrift waiting for Mulcair to retire. The four polls from August 24 until September have been 16.5%, 18%, 15.8% and 14.9%. An unsurprising drop in view of the ongoing recent coverage of the internal dissent and low funding levels. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_in_the_43rd_Canadian_feder...)

So Singh's leadership had increased party support over the last year until very recently. Could he do a better job? Yes. Do new leaders usually have to learn on the job? Yes. Do I believe there is someone else who would unite everyone in the NDP before the next election? No. Could he still do well in the election? Possibly. In three byelections on November 29, 2010, less than six months before Jack Layton led the NDP in the 2011 election where they elected 103 MPs with by far its greatest election support, the NDP lost 21.4% of their previous support and the riding of Winnipeg North, were 30.4% behind the Conservatives in Dauphin-Swan Lake-Marquette and won a measly 1.7% in Vaughn. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/By-elections_to_the_40th_Canadian_Parliament)  The MSM said the NDP and Jack Layton were in deep trouble. What will happen in 2019? I don't know. But in the modern world, where there a lot fewer people with long-term support of a particular party, things can change quickly. 

The following party contributions graph shows that even when the NDP was the official opposition from 2011 to 2015 when people viewed the party as the likely alternative government with 103 elected MPs, the party's funding levels went up and down and spiked in the 2015 election year. Is the NDP having funding problems - yes, but every party except the Conservatives have had drops in their recent contributions. 

Graph of party donations       https://ipolitics.ca/2018/04/30/882142/

One area where I think the NDP is way behind is in communicating to members and the public about issues through social media, which elections in Canada have shown can be done effectively without huge expenditure if done correctly. However, that has been a problem for the NDP for at least a decade. 

 

 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..i believe we need to stop looking to political parties to save us. hope lies in ourselves. mobilizing at the community level in order force parties/governments to make different decisions. direct democracy. 

..look what's going in ont, in man, in que. were in deep shit here. i'll say it again the ndp is able to change given the right amount of pressure. right or wrong weir/singh cannot be the line in the sand here.

eta:..just to be clear i consider qs to be based on direct democracy.

josh

"I am not going to change my decision because people of a position of privilege want to intimidate me to change that.

What a jackass.

Aristotleded24

josh wrote:

"I am not going to change my decision because people of a position of privilege want to intimidate me to change that.

What a jackass.

Yeah, if someone from the GTA wants to pick a fight over the idea of "people of priviledge" with people on the Prairies, guess who's not going to come out on the winning end of that argument.

Aristotleded24

jerrym wrote:
During the leadership campaign the NDP membership tripled from 41,000 to 124,0000, mainly from new members brought into the party by Singh. All parties lose many of their new members after a leadership campaign. (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ndp-leadership-members-1.4265642)

That 124, 000 would represent how many members the NDP had during the leadership convention. How many members does the NDP have now?

jerrym wrote:
In the seven of the eight polls immediately before the selection of Singh as party leader the NDP was polling between 14.5% and 16.0% (September 8th to October 1st, 2017 with one outlier of 20%).  In seven of nine polls from July 20th to August 20th, 2018 the NDP received 17.8% to 20.1% with the two others at 17.3% (July 26th) and 15% (August 12th). In other words, until less than a month ago the NDP had increased its support since Singh was chosen leader and was polling near its 2015 election support of 19.7% despite the two years in which it was adrift waiting for Mulcair to retire. The four polls from August 24 until September have been 16.5%, 18%, 15.8% and 14.9%. An unsurprising drop in view of the ongoing recent coverage of the internal dissent and low funding levels. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_in_the_43rd_Canadian_feder...)

So the best case scenario, no big change overall.

jerrym wrote:
So Singh's leadership had increased party support over the last year until very recently. Could he do a better job? Yes. Do new leaders usually have to learn on the job? Yes. Do I believe there is someone else who would unite everyone in the NDP before the next election? No.

"Someone else" isn't currently leading the NDP. Singh is. And I agree that new leaders will struggle a little bit. Every new leader has things that other people will find concerning. Singh's tenure so far, rather than addressing those concerns, has only served to strengthen and amplify them.

jerrym wrote:
No. Could he still do well in the election? Possibly.

Could Elizabeth May be elected Prime Minister next year? Possibly. Whether that is in the realm of probability is another question.

jerrym wrote:
In three byelections on November 29, 2010, less than six months before Jack Layton led the NDP in the 2011 election where they elected 103 MPs with by far its greatest election support, the NDP lost 21.4% of their previous support and the riding of Winnipeg North, were 30.4% behind the Conservatives in Dauphin-Swan Lake-Marquette and won a measly 1.7% in Vaughn. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/By-elections_to_the_40th_Canadian_Parliament)  The MSM said the NDP and Jack Layton were in deep trouble.

2 out of those 3 ridings were areas where the NDP had no support and could not be expected to win. It's not a surprise that the NDP would win 1% in a rich 905 riding, or that they would lose by over 30% in a rural Manitoba riding. The by-elections were an indicator of things to come in one sense. Not only did the NDP in Manitoba fail to win back Winnipeg North, it also went on to lose Elmwwod-Transcona to the Conservatives.

By the way, Jack took the time to come to Dauphin during that campaign to help out and offer support to NDP members there. Did Jagmeet Singh ever show up in North Battleford when they had their election? Don't give me that crap about North Battleford being a longshot NDP riding. It is no less a longshot than Dauphin was, and Battleford elected NDP MPs much more recently than Dauphin ever did.

jerrym wrote:
I don't know. But in the modern world, where there a lot fewer people with long-term support of a particular party, things can change quickly.

If the comments on babble are any indication, the number of long term NDP supporters is becoming fewer and fewer.

And I'll ask you again: I am one person who helped out on Daniel Blaikie's campaign in 2015. Would you rather Blaikie have fought for that seat with or without my help?

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..i suffer from arthritis. i've lost both me knees and 1 thumb joint to it. it moved on to my hip so i began the process for a replacement. at the time the doctor told me 6 mon until i see the surgeon and 6 mon after that to have the surgery. since the cons are in power and making cuts i expected that waiting period to change.

..yesterday i finally saw the surgeon. they took an xray of my hip and the cartilage is now totally gone and i'm down to bone on bone. my wait for surgery now was extended to 10 - 14 months. this could change though and i was grateful the doc was willing to talk about it. the cons set a budget for hips. once that budget is meet all hip replacement stops until the next budget. that next budget could be less than the present one. this process creates and ever increasing stacking up of folks needing the surgery that will never be satisfied because there will never be enough money. 

..i/we face this because the behaviours of consecutive ndp administrations were appalling. but in the here and now i want them back for so many reasons. i understand what is going on with weir. the injustice of it. i understand that the singh leadership is failing. but can't help knowing/feeling that it is a tempest in a teapot compared to what we are facing from the right.   

robbie_dee

epaulo13 wrote:
i understand what is going on with weir. the injustice of it. i understand that the singh leadership is failing. but can't help knowing/feeling that it is a tempest in a teapot compared to what we are facing from the right.

The right is terrible and getting worse. If given the choice between a Conservative candidate and an NDP candidate, even after everything that has happened with Weir (and various other betrayals by the Party along the way), I would generally support the New Democrat. Given the choice between a New Democrat and a Liberal, though, which is what I am expecting in my riding in the next election? I dunno.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..without a doubt absent a strong ndp the liberals will be to go futher right. effective mobilizing drags the parties left. a lesson learned from bc.

robbie_dee

Generally yes, but I am wondering if in this circumstance what the NDP really needs is a good shellacking from the voters to remove the deadwood and wake up the rest of the Party to the need for change. Other parties, like the Greens, can also play the NDP's traditional role in keeping the Liberals honest on many issues although regrettably the Greens are not very pro-union. OTOH I'm not sure whether the current crop of people in charge of the NDP grasp important labor-relations concepts like "just cause" or "due process" for that matter either.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..they've needed and had a good shellacking many times. yet here we are today. what we need is a different way of making decisions. again bc shows us the path. broad collaborations based on needs of the community. developing strategies and tactics on how to achieve them. from here we can build new structures or as in the case of the municipalist movements take control at the community level. our work is not to design something for the future but defend and protect what we have now. do this and the future will take care of itself.  

MegB

Continued here.

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