Erin Weir accused of "harassment"

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Mobo2000

From the article above, Christine's statement:

"“I welcome the opportunity to participate in the independent and fair examination of these allegations. Out of respect for the fairness and the integrity of the process, I will not be commenting further on these allegations at this point,”

I hope she gets a fair process.   She's a step up on Erin Weir in that she knows the name of her accuser.

NorthReport

Glen Kirkland Describes His Encounters with Christine Moore

http://www.cpac.ca/en/programs/primetime-politics/episodes/61971507

NorthReport
Cody87

So I've been out of the loop for a week or so...and I come back to 300+ new comments...which is TL:DR even for me...but then I saw another post where Rev Pesky is unhappy with what happened to Weir...so I assume there is interesting developments. Can someone please sum up what happened here?

NorthReport
Rev Pesky

From Cody87:

.but then I saw another post where Rev Pesky is unhappy with what happened to Weir..

In fact, if you read my posts, you'd see what I was unhappy with is the way the party treated Weir. Now, perhaps that is what you meant when you posted the above, but that was not clear to me.

Mighty Middle

Jagmeet Singh said he always 100% will support the victim/survivor

So in that case I guess he is on the side of Corporal Glen Kirkland.

Right?

JeffWells

queenmandy85 wrote:

Is there a civil war breaking out in the Party?

That would be a sign of life. Alas I'm not optimistic. I think the party is more likely to continue its spiral into irrelevance and absurdity.

The best outcome may be to kick everybody out of caucus. The bar for booting Weir was so ridiculously low I'm sure every MP could stand accused of something.

R.E.Wood

JeffWells wrote:

That would be a sign of life. Alas I'm not optimistic. I think the party is more likely to continue its spiral into irrelevance and absurdity.

The best outcome may be to kick everybody out of caucus. The bar for booting Weir was so ridiculously low I'm sure every MP could stand accused of something.

It's an interesting tactic for a political party to kick your own members out before the voters get a chance to do it for you. The kind of innovative, fresh thinking the NDP needs from Singh.

Debater

NorthReport wrote:

The NDP now need to do the right thing and bring Erie Weir back into the Caucus no matter how much Trudeau supported Singh on this matter last week.

I'm not sure why Trudeau was asked to comment on this matter in the first place.

It's not really his business.

It's up to the NDP to decide how to handle this.

NorthReport

I wonder if Singh will now realize that perhaps the advice he had been receiving from the back room folks is not all that it is cracked up to be.

How will it now be possible for the NDP to emerge from this debacle without serious loss of support?

Is there anything that Singh can do now to restore confidence in the party?

So the public will now have to wait for a few weeks or months for another report

Regardless of the outcome unless the investigation into Moore is on a par with the investigation into Weir and that means soliciting other complaints against Moore etc there will be probably be another uproar against Singh and the NDP and it will quickly spiral downhill again for the NDP. 

If  Moore is exonerated or kept in the Caucus will anyone believe in the process?

If Moore is booted from the Caucus the NDP will have lost 2 MPs

How will the NDP ever again hope to regain the confidence of the electorate?

Paladin1

JeffWells wrote:

queenmandy85 wrote:

The bar for booting Weir was so ridiculously low I'm sure every MP could stand accused of something.

 

Who needs due process and that innocent until proven guilty crap eh.  Someone could have made an off handed joke 15 years ago and that's their marching orders right there. I don't blame the NDP really. Our society is all about FIRE THEM! for even the slightest transgression. Why make politics different.

josh

NorthReport wrote:

I wonder if Singh will now realize that perhaps the advice he had been receiving from the back room folks is not all that it is cracked up to be.

How will it now be possible for the NDP to emerge from this debacle without serious loss of support?

Is there anything that Singh can do now to restore confidence in the party?

So the public will now have to wait for a few weeks or months for another report

Regardless of the outcome unless the investigation into Moore is on a par with the investigation into Weir and that means soliciting other complaints against Moore etc there will be probably be another uproar against Singh and the NDP and it will quickly spiral downhill again for the NDP. 

If  Moore is exonerated or kept in the Caucus will anyone believe in the process?

If Moore is booted from the Caucus the NDP will have lost 2 MPs

How will the NDP ever again hope to regain the confidence of the electorate?

I think it’s probably a safe bet that they won’t kick Moore out.

bekayne

progressive17 wrote:

A long time ago, it was alleged that someone said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." The NDP seem to be a party of sinners who cast stones.

Circular stoning squad.

Mighty Middle

josh wrote:

I think it’s probably a safe bet that they won’t kick Moore out.

If this was a MALE NDP MP who used the power of his office to initiate a sexual relationship with a female witness at a committee hearing, this male NDP MP would be thrown out of caucus. 

 

Debater

josh wrote:

I think it’s probably a safe bet that they won’t kick Moore out.

I think it's too soon to reach any conclusions.

The allegations against Moore are pretty serious.

Not only is she alleged to have used her position as a Member of Parliament to pursue a relationship with an injured veteran, but there are also allegations that she gave him alcohol while he was on medication and may have tried to take advantage of him.

Misfit Misfit's picture

 She could lose her nursing status. Her nursing career could be over. 

Mighty Middle

Cpl. Glen Kirkland on CTV about why he went public about his allegations against Christine Moore

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3Rcp06MF-k

NorthReport

What role did Moore play, if any, in what happened to the 2 Liberal MPs, Scott Andrews and Massimo Pacetti?

Mighty Middle

NorthReport wrote:

What role did Moore play, if any, in what happened to the 2 Liberal MPs, Scott Andrews and Massimo Pacetti?

Allegedly she was the one who blabbed to Justin Trudeau

 

NorthReport

So Christine Moore as far as we know, has already been involved in 3 MPs, 2 Liberals, and Weir getting kicked out of their respective political parties. Is this correct?

Mighty Middle

NorthReport wrote:

So Christine Moore as far as we know, has already been involved in getting 3 MPs, 2 Liberals, and Weir, getting kicked out of their respective political parties. Is this correct?

Yes that is correct. I assume all three men are now thinking "Poetic Justice" and "Karma"

NorthReport

I wonder what the rest of the MPs on Parliament Hill, particularly the NDP MPs, are thinking? Are any of them now having second thoughts about what happpened to Weir? Because if they are, they need to speak up, and if need be, go public with their concerns.

Mighty Middle

NorthReport wrote:

I wonder what the rest of the MPs on Parliament Hill, particularly the NDP MPs, are thinking? Are any of them now having second thoughts about what happpened to Weir? Because if they are, they need to speak up, and if need be, go public with their concerns.

On The National a few NDP MPs scrummed still supported Weir expulsion and the investigation into Christine Moore

NorthReport

I am not a big fan of this author, however it may offer some information for those that don't work on the Hill.

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/christie-blatchford-moore-may-not-be-the...

NorthReport

What's the latest on the situation with Kent Hehr? 

Trudeau says he’s dealing with sexual harassment claims against Liberals on a ‘case-by-case’ basis

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/trudeau-says-hes-dealing-w...

NorthReport

B.C. venue hires ‘consent captain’ to help prevent sexual harassment, assaults

‘Mentally and emotionally, we’re all signing up for consensual culture, but a lot of folks don’t know how to catch up with their behaviour,’ says Tanille Geib.

https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2018/05/08/bc-venue-hires-consent-capt...

Pondering

Mighty Middle wrote:

Again this is Frank magazine, so take it with a grain of salt.

We are not supposed to identify survivors or link to stories that do. 

Mighty Middle

Pondering wrote:

Mighty Middle wrote:

Again this is Frank magazine, so take it with a grain of salt.

We are not supposed to identify survivors or link to stories that do. 

Well it is a bit too late now because in Christie Blatchford column tonight, she has outed Christine Moore as the instigator from a few years ago.

Debater
Pondering

Paladin1 wrote:

JeffWells wrote:

queenmandy85 wrote:

The bar for booting Weir was so ridiculously low I'm sure every MP could stand accused of something.

He was not booted  anyover anything in the report. He was returning to caucus as he stated he had accepted the findings of the report and would take anti-harassment training. 

Who needs due process and that innocent until proven guilty crap eh.  Someone could have made an off handed joke 15 years ago and that's their marching orders right there. I don't blame the NDP really. Our society is all about FIRE THEM! for even the slightest transgression. Why make politics different.

It since became clear that he did not accept the findings of the report which he should have said in the first place if that is what he thought. Then he released identifying information about one of the complainants, or who he assumed them to be. 

He could be in caucus right now if he had stuck to the agreement.

NorthReport

Well did Moore not break confidentiality herself here in relation to the 2 Liberal MPs?

NDP MP Breaks Silence On Allegations Against Liberal MPs

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/11/25/ndp-harassment-allegations-mass...

Pondering wrote:

Mighty Middle wrote:

Again this is Frank magazine, so take it with a grain of salt.

We are not supposed to identify survivors or link to stories that do. 

NorthReport

The MPs are correct I suppose in that it can happen to any party, and usually it is men, but it can be women as well, and that we just have to wait and let the process unfold.

Debater wrote:

NDP MPs react to sexual misconduct claim against Christine Moore

Video:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/video-ndp-mps-react-to-sexual-misconduct-claim-against-christine-moore/

Pondering

Mighty Middle wrote:

josh wrote:

I think it’s probably a safe bet that they won’t kick Moore out.

If this was a MALE NDP MP who used the power of his office to initiate a sexual relationship with a female witness at a committee hearing, this male NDP MP would be thrown out of caucus. 

Would he? I don't think so. Not from the facts I've heard. She was not not in a position of authority over him. He doesn't look like a teen or even a 22 year old. 

He said he went because she is a registered nurse so suggested she could help him with his medication. That sounds very bizarre. Why would he consider her medical advice over his doctor's? Did he have a medication list with him? Sounds like "come see my etchings" to me if Moore suggested that as a reason.  Did he feel intimidated by her authority? 

He does not claim that he was inebriated. He said she followed him to his hotel, he did not say that she wasn't invited to. 

He said what happened was consentual. Was his plan a one night stand, which is fine. Nothing wrong with it. 

Did she use her position to obtain his phone number and address or did he give it to her? 

There absolutely should be an investigation but he seemed to be having a lot of trouble keeping a smirk off his face. 

If it was all consentual and he didn't feel intimidated by her then she did nothing wrong. Certainly if there are more allegations against her she too should be offered anti-harassment training like Weir was offered. 

Seems to me she is being attacked for having spoken up over what she was hearing on the grapevine. Investigations followed and found wrong-doing, but she is the one being condemned for coming forward rather than the men who misbehaved. 

Welcome to the 1950s.

Mighty Middle

Pondering wrote:

She was not not in a position of authority over him

Like it or not a Member of Parliament is in a position of authority.

Pondering

Mighty Middle wrote:

Pondering wrote:

She was not not in a position of authority over him

Like it or not a Member of Parliament is in a position of authority.

Being an MP is not a position of authority over anyone. She doesn't have the right to order anyone to do anything unless she is their direct supervisor.  

Mighty Middle

Pondering wrote:

Being an MP is not a position of authority over anyone

If you really think that you are in the minority.

Mighty Middle

Clip from the movie "Disclosure" seems to illustrate this situation Christine has found herself in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grUKRkZ14aI

Cody87

Rev Pesky wrote:

From Cody87:

.but then I saw another post where Rev Pesky is unhappy with what happened to Weir..

In fact, if you read my posts, you'd see what I was unhappy with is the way the party treated Weir. Now, perhaps that is what you meant when you posted the above, but that was not clear to me.

I was definitely careless in my representation of your position. Textbook case of the broken telephone game. Sorry about that, and thanks for the clarification.

 

Rev Pesky

From Pondering:

If it was all consentual and he didn't feel intimidated by her then she did nothing wrong. Certainly if there are more allegations against her she too should be offered anti-harassment training like Weir was offered. 

It is interesting how you can find excuses for the some and not others. However, this 'one-night stand' was instigated by her, followed up by constant texting, further attempts to arrange a meeting, and finally showing up on the victim's doorstep.

This is far more serious behaviour than anything Weir is accused of.

further from Pondering:

...he seemed to be having a lot of trouble keeping a smirk off his face. 

The above comment, if used where the shoe was on the other foot, would invite at least clamorous condemnation if not outright banning from babble. I'm a bit surprised that you would disrespect the victim in this way.

josh

Pondering wrote:

Paladin1 wrote:

JeffWells wrote:

queenmandy85 wrote:

The bar for booting Weir was so ridiculously low I'm sure every MP could stand accused of something.

He was not booted  anyover anything in the report. He was returning to caucus as he stated he had accepted the findings of the report and would take anti-harassment training. 

Who needs due process and that innocent until proven guilty crap eh.  Someone could have made an off handed joke 15 years ago and that's their marching orders right there. I don't blame the NDP really. Our society is all about FIRE THEM! for even the slightest transgression. Why make politics different.

It since became clear that he did not accept the findings of the report which he should have said in the first place if that is what he thought. Then he released identifying information about one of the complainants, or who he assumed them to be. 

He could be in caucus right now if he had stuck to the agreement.

How has it become clear that he didn’t accept the results?  Because he defended himself from a violation of the process?  Which apparently is a one-way street.

pookie

Rev Pesky wrote:

From Pondering:

If it was all consentual and he didn't feel intimidated by her then she did nothing wrong. Certainly if there are more allegations against her she too should be offered anti-harassment training like Weir was offered. 

It is interesting how you can find excuses for the some and not others. However, this 'one-night stand' was instigated by her, followed up by constant texting, further attempts to arrange a meeting, and finally showing up on the victim's doorstep.

This is far more serious behaviour than anything Weir is accused of.

further from Pondering:

...he seemed to be having a lot of trouble keeping a smirk off his face. 

The above comment, if used where the shoe was on the other foot, would invite at least clamorous condemnation if not outright banning from babble. I'm a bit surprised that you would disrespect the victim in this way.

Yep. How do you know it was a smirk? I saw an interview on CTV PowerPlay and he seemed totally forthright to me.

I thought victims react in all sorts of ways?

josh

Would he be a victim or a survivor?

Pondering

josh wrote:

Pondering wrote:

Paladin1 wrote:

JeffWells wrote:

queenmandy85 wrote:

The bar for booting Weir was so ridiculously low I'm sure every MP could stand accused of something.

He was not booted  anyover anything in the report. He was returning to caucus as he stated he had accepted the findings of the report and would take anti-harassment training. 

Who needs due process and that innocent until proven guilty crap eh.  Someone could have made an off handed joke 15 years ago and that's their marching orders right there. I don't blame the NDP really. Our society is all about FIRE THEM! for even the slightest transgression. Why make politics different.

It since became clear that he did not accept the findings of the report which he should have said in the first place if that is what he thought. Then he released identifying information about one of the complainants, or who he assumed them to be. 

He could be in caucus right now if he had stuck to the agreement.

How has it become clear that he didn’t accept the results?  Because he defended himself from a violation of the process?  Which apparently is a one-way street.

When he said he had not been angry and belligerent and that the charges were trumped up in retaliation for his position on carbon pricing. 

There was no violation of the process. Complainants are not sworn to silence about their own experiences. In fact the accused is also free to speak. They are not free to reveal the identity or give identifying information about the complainant. 

The anti-harassment training was offered because he accepted the findings of the report, which he said he did so he was offered that solution. When he made it clear he did not accept the findings of the report the deal was off. 

josh

He said he had not been "angry and belligrent" as to one incident.  And it's not even clear that that was an incident for which he was charged.  Maybe instead of sending him to re-education camp, they should have just demanded that he take Xanax every hour on the hour.

Pondering

Rev Pesky wrote:

From Pondering:

If it was all consentual and he didn't feel intimidated by her then she did nothing wrong. Certainly if there are more allegations against her she too should be offered anti-harassment training like Weir was offered. 

It is interesting how you can find excuses for the some and not others. However, this 'one-night stand' was instigated by her, followed up by constant texting, further attempts to arrange a meeting, and finally showing up on the victim's doorstep.

This is far more serious behaviour than anything Weir is accused of.

further from Pondering:

...he seemed to be having a lot of trouble keeping a smirk off his face. 

The above comment, if used where the shoe was on the other foot, would invite at least clamorous condemnation if not outright banning from babble. I'm a bit surprised that you would disrespect the victim in this way

The man is not claiming to be a victim. He said it was consentual. 

He is claiming that it was inappropriate for her to come on to him because she is in a position of authority.

She was not in a position of authority over him.  Police officers are allowed to make passes at and have relations with women, just not women in their custody or that they have some official power over.

She had zero power over him. He is not claiming that he felt in any way intimidated by her. He is talking about what she did but not what his response was. Did he respond to her texts? 

If she used her position to find out what his phone number was or his address then that was definitely an abuse of power but if he gave her the information then it wasn't. 

He said in his interview that he came forward because of the hypocrisy because she reported on Weir. 

All Christine Moore did was report what was on the grapevine to people in authority. From that point on it was up to the authorities to decide what to do. 

But don't worry, she has been suspended and an investigation will occur. Let's see if there are any other accusers.

Pondering

josh wrote:

Would he be a victim or a survivor?

He hasn't claimed to be either. He stated the sex was fully consentual. He did not claim to be intimidated by her therefore at this point he is neither. 

R.E.Wood

Ex-NDP MP Nystrom calls Weir probe ‘flawed,’ as party starts new investigation into MP Christine Moore

“The leader [of the NDP] had a press conference in front of the main doors of the House of Commons at the height of the publicity of the #MeToo movement around North America and that made this a big national issue when it should have been handled internally,” Lorne Nystrom, a former Saskatchewan NDP MP for 32 years, told The Hill Times. He said the presumption of innocence in Mr. Weir’s case was overlooked.

Mr. Nystrom, who backed MP Guy Caron (Rimouski Neigette-Témiscouata-Les Basques, Que.) in last year’s leadership race, said the investigation was “flawed,” as such examinations are supposed to be started based on a specific complaint from someone directly affected and not unspecified allegations from a third party.

https://www.hilltimes.com/2018/05/09/weirs-dismissal-brings-questions-nd...

R.E.Wood

NorthReport wrote:

I am not a big fan of this author, however it may offer some information for those that don't work on the Hill.

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/christie-blatchford-moore-may-not-be-the...

Wow. Lots of interesting information on Christine Moore in that article! So she's now ruined the careers of three (3!) male MP's for highly dubious reasons. I found her complaint of after-the-act sexual harrassment (she says she didn't give "explicit consent") against Massimo Pacetti particularly rich, considering she provided the condom. I think the picture is much clearer now. Moore is dangerous. She's the one who should be out of the NDP caucus, and Weir should be reinstated immediately.

progressive17 progressive17's picture

Now is the time of the secret lawyer investigation, so we will soon see.

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