Federal Israeli Apartheid Week motion defeated

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aka Mycroft
Federal Israeli Apartheid Week motion defeated

Quote:

Dear Friends,

Thank you so much for taking the time to write and express your views about the motion proposed by a Conservative MP, about Israeli Apartheid Week. I have heard from many people on this issue.

The motion came forward on March 11th, and did not receive unanimous consent, and so was not approved by Parliament. A second motion from the Bloc Québécois also failed to receive unanimous consent.

The Conservative motion was designed to be divisive and to censure legitimate debate on the issue of Israel's policies as well as to specifically target activists who are engaged in debate and other activities on various campuses across the country.

I didn't support either motion, and whatever one thinks about the term "apartheid" in reference to Israel, I don't believe that Members of Parliament should have any role or influence in stifling open discussion and education on this issue. As someone who has visited the West Bank and Gaza twice (most recently in August of 2009), I know first-hand the impact and destruction caused by Israeli policies towards Palestinians.

Copies of the report from my trip can be found at:
http://www.libbydavies.ca/sites/default/files/Parliamentary%20Delegation...

I really appreciate that so many people have taken the time to support freedom of speech and the rights of the Palestinian people. I will continue to do the same.

Sincerely,
Libby_

Doug

And that seems a good and classy way of having dealt with it. Yay Libby!

Skinny Dipper

I want to thank Libby Davies and any other MP who opposed the Conservative motion.  It was designed to shut down discussion and debate.

I do hope that both the Israelis and Palestinians can become pro-active in seeking a mutually agreed solution.  I encourage all Canadians to join the discussions in helping seek peaceful solutions.

Thanks again, Ms. Davies.

remind remind's picture

proof enough that the federal NDP is not that of provincial NDP, I would say.

skdadl

Well said and well done, Libby.

 

With your indulgence, Mycroft, I've copied to BnR -- ok?

Kaspar Hauser

-=+=-

Once again proud to have voted for Libby Davies, as I have in every election since moving to Vancouver East.

Slumberjack

Thanks to Libby Davies and others that share her conviction, this is a huge victory for democracy by any standard.

aka Mycroft

skdadl wrote:

Well said and well done, Libby.

 

With your indulgence, Mycroft, I've copied to BnR -- ok?

 

np

KeyStone

This is good news that not all politicians are afraid to stand up to the Israeli lobby. What does condeming the event actually do?
Nothing really. This whole thing seems like a tactic for the Conservatives to add to their pamphlets the names of those that didn't support the motion to condemn IAW and imply that they are anti-semitic.

 

aka Mycroft
Paul Gross

The CIC says "a similar motion introduced by the Bloc Quebecois also denouncing the use of the term apartheid to describe Israel." failed. Does anyone know the difference between the Bloc's and Uppals' motions? Did the Bloc support Uppal's motion?

skdadl

The Bloc motion (remember: these are motions for unanimous consent, so they fail if even one voice is raised to say No):

 

Quote:
Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille:
Mr. Speaker, I also wish to seek the unanimous consent of the House to adopt the following motion:

That this House denounce the use of the word apartheid to describe the Israeli policy on Palestinians and the word anti-Semitic to describe any criticism against Israel, and that this House reaffirm its support for Israel's right to live in peace and security within sound, established borders, and reaffirm its support for the right of the Palestinian people to have its own state within sound borders and to live there in peace and security.
The Speaker:
Does the hon. member for Beauharnois—Salaberry have the unanimous consent of the House to move this motion?

Some hon. members: Agreed.

Some hon. members: No.

The Speaker: There is no consent.

 

Actually, I would have voted No as well. I believe it is wrong on principle for people with public power to be "denouncing" the political views of citizens, and I think the importation of the practice of calling for ritual public denunciations is a scandal to democracy.

Ripple

Mr. Tim Uppal (Edmonton-Sherwood Park, CPC):
 
Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, there have been consultations with all parties, and I hope you would find consent for the following motion: "That this House condemns Israeli Apartheid Week for seeking to delegitimize the State of Israel by equating it with the racist South African apartheid regime, and that this House continues to support a peaceful resolution through a negotiated two-state solution that respects Israel's right to exist".
 
The Speaker:

Does the hon. member for Edmonton-Sherwood Park have the unanimous consent of the House to propose this motion?
 
Some hon. members: Agreed.
 
Some hon. members: No.
 
 
Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille (Beauharnois-Salaberry, BQ):

 
Mr. Speaker, I also wish to seek the unanimous consent of the House to adopt the following motion:
 
That this House denounce the use of the word apartheid to describe the Israeli policy on Palestinians and the word anti-Semitic to describe any criticism against Israel, and that this House reaffirm its support for Israel's right to live in peace and security within sound, established borders, and reaffirm its support for the right of the Palestinian people to have its own state within sound borders and to live there in peace and security.
 
The Speaker: 
 
Does the hon. member for Beauharnois-Salaberry have the unanimous consent of the House to move this motion?
 
Some hon. members: Agreed.
 
Some hon. members: No.
 
The Speaker: There is no consent.

Ripple

Oops.  Cross-post.  What's the etiquette here?  Do I edit my post?  Can I delete it? 

(I realize, of course, that I've now added a second unnecessary post to this thread, but I'm thinking for future reference ...)

bcruth

The Canada Israel Committee is busy busy busy trying to disinform and divide and conquer!  I wonder if they congratulated the Bloc for putting forward a motion in the House to "denounce" the use of the term of anti-semitism in relation to criticism of Israel? (The other part of the motion they are "congratulating" the bloc on in the above link.)

Meanwhile, the CIC's friends at B'nai Brith were busy earlier this week bullying the Bloc Quebecois for calling out the Parliamentary Coalition to Combat Anti-Semitism for what it is: a pro-Israeli lobby. Here is the media release they issued:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

B’nai Brith Canada disappointed by Bloc decision to pull out of
parliamentary coalition against antisemitism

TORONTO, March 11, 2010 – B’nai Brith Canada has expressed concern at
reports that the Bloc Quebecois (BQ) has walked out of a national coalition
designed to cooperatively examine and address the issue of antisemitism in
Canada. 

“The move by the BQ to pull out of the Canadian Parliamentary Coalition to
Combat Antisemitism (CPCCA) has politicized a non-partisan issue of concern
to all Canadians, said Frank Dimant, B’nai Brith Canada’s Executive Vice
President.  “The decision by the BQ to turn its back on the process of an
all-party initiative against antisemitism, before the Coalition has even
begun to reach conclusions or offer recommendations, is counterproductive
to say the least.

“Canadians were optimistic when they witnessed the overwhelming response to
the CPCCA’s important initiative to combat antisemitism in Canada - police
chiefs, academics, victims of antisemitism and the human rights
organizations that assist them - all came together to work cooperatively on
examining antisemitism in all its many manifestations and finding
solutions.  We would ask the Bloc to reconsider this decision.”

-30-

For more information, please contact, Dan Rabkin, Communications Officer:
416-633-6224 X 140 / cell: 416-312-9173

 

skdadl

Ripple wrote:

Oops.  Cross-post.  What's the etiquette here?  Do I edit my post?  Can I delete it? 

(I realize, of course, that I've now added a second unnecessary post to this thread, but I'm thinking for future reference ...)

 

Not to worry, I think.

 

The more voices we raise here, the better.

Fidel

Am I ever glad we have democratic voices like Libby's in Parliament.

Stockholm

Someone should try to start a Parliamentary Coalition to Combat Islamophobia and see whether it will be joined by all the parties and MPs who are so enthusiastic about joining the Parliamentary Coalition to Combat Anti-Semitism. Or better yet - why not propose that the Parliamentary Coalition to Combat Anti-Semitism be scrapped in favour of a new grouping called the Parliamentary Coalition to Combat Anti-Semitism AND Islamophobia!

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

Yeah, too bad we don't have them in Ontario.

Lord Palmerston

Stockholm wrote:

Someone should try to start a Parliamentary Coalition to Combat Islamophobia and see whether it will be joined by all the parties and MPs who are so enthusiastic about joining the Parliamentary Coalition to Combat Anti-Semitism. Or better yet - why not propose that the Parliamentary Coalition to Combat Anti-Semitism be scrapped in favour of a new grouping called the Parliamentary Coalition to Combat Anti-Semitism AND Islamophobia!

BTW, the BQ has resigned from the HUIC for it's blatant pro-Israel agenda.

Fidel

Theyre always praising up the NDP in these threads. It's sickening.

NDPP

Stockholm wrote:

Someone should try to start a Parliamentary Coalition to Combat Islamophobia and see whether it will be joined by all the parties and MPs who are so enthusiastic about joining the Parliamentary Coalition to Combat Anti-Semitism. Or better yet - why not propose that the Parliamentary Coalition to Combat Anti-Semitism be scrapped in favour of a new grouping called the Parliamentary Coalition to Combat Anti-Semitism AND Islamophobia!

NDPP

Great idea for a Parliamentary Coalition to Combat Islamophobia - unfortunately, Islamophobia is a crucial component of the imperial rampage currently being conducted by our own government in concert with other gangsters and war criminals including Israel. The Coalition to Combat Anti-Semitism should be scrapped and renamed FOIA (Friends of Israeli Apartheid)

contrarianna

I salute the courage of Libby Davies who is unfortunately now a target for CIC  and the rest of the lobby (and though it's not at all clear which MPs voice-voted for or against the two very different motions, the CIC has apparently decided to target the entire NDP in a pressure move for allowing Davies vocal dissent).

Meanwhile:

Quote:

Progressive Jews Welcome Defeat of Motion Condemning Israeli Apartheid Week

OTTAWA, March 12 /CNW Telbec/ - Independent Jewish Voices (IJV), a national network of Jewish human-rights activists, welcomes yesterday’s defeat of MP Tim Uppal’s House of Commons motion condemning Israeli Apartheid Week.

“This shows courage to stand up to the Orwellian attempts by Israel’s supporters to bully Israel’s critics into silence,” said IJV spokesperson Sid Shniad. “Apartheid”, the term Israeli Defence Minister Ehud Barak and former prime minister Olmert used to describe the occupation’s effects, shouldn’t be controversial.

“Whether or not you agree with the term ‘apartheid’, all Canadians should defend free speech and oppose limiting debate, especially considering these terms are part of the Israel mainstream debate,” said Shniad.

IJV also commends Ontario NDP leader Andrea Horwath for her statement calling a similar provincial motion by MPP Peter Shurman “divisive by nature” and calls for the Ontario legislature to reject such motions in the future.”

Founded in 2008, IJV-Canada is a large national organization of Jewish activists committed to social justice and universal human rights.

http://ijvcanada.org/ijv-vji-statements-enonces/communique-de-presse/ijv...

Skinny Dipper

I don't know if this is the right forum, but it's as close as I could find on the topic of Israel Apartheid Week.

Lorrie Goldstein of the Toronto Sun writes about "Jew haters, free speech and the Toronto District School Board.

I won't argue about the TDSB decision to prohibit IAW activities on school board property. I do think there is a difference between the universities/colleges and secondary schools. Adults attend universities and colleges; children (even older ones) attend secondary and elementary schools. The school boards and staff members have the right to act in loco parentis with the students. The schools are resonsibile for the students' well-being whereas at the university and college levels, the students are adults who are responsible for their own well-being. People may not agree with the TDSB decision. Nevertheless, the schools and staff members are legally responsible for the well-being of the students.

If "Jew-hater" events such as IAW should not be allowed on TDSB property, then the board should also be banning Arab and Muslim hater groups such as the Jewish Defense League, B'nai Brith, the Canadian Israel Committee, and the Canadian Jewish Congress.. Perhaps we should be identifying these organizations as hate groups.

Unionist

Skinny Dipper, I think I (vaguely) understand your argument, but the answer to the TDSB's attempt to ban criticism of Israel isn't, "well, you should ban support for Israel also!" There are many who would like to ban all political education, discussion, and organization in schools - not to protect the "well-being of the students", but to shelter young minds from all thought except that of the ruling classes which pervades the education system, the mainstream media, and what passes for popular culture in some quarters.

Jaku

Skinny Dipper wrote:

I don't know if this is the right forum, but it's as close as I could find on the topic of Israel Apartheid Week.

Lorrie Goldstein of the Toronto Sun writes about "Jew haters, free speech and the Toronto District School Board.

If "Jew-hater" events such as IAW should not be allowed on TDSB property, then the board should also be banning Arab and Muslim hater groups such as the Jewish Defense League, B'nai Brith, the Canadian Israel Committee, and the Canadian Jewish Congress.. Perhaps we should be identifying these organizations as hate groups.

Can you give some direct proof that CJC, CIC and B'nai brith are "Arab and Muslim hating" groups. It is one thing to engage in passionate disagreements and quite another to claim that these groups "hate" Arabs and Muslims. Since at least one of these groups act very much as a representative of the community (excluding some like IJV) claiming CJC "hates" all Muslims is way off base I believe.

Skinny Dipper

Hi Unionist,

I think I also vaguely understand your point as well.  There's nothing wrong with being pro-Israeli as these organizations are.  I will state that some high school student may complain to the teacher or principal that these same organizations are anti-Arab and anti-Muslim.  The Jewish and pro-Israeli organizations don't need to state that they hate Arabs or Muslims--just their presence in the schools could affect the learning envionment for some students.  Their pro-Israeli stance could also mean that they hate Arabs and Muslims.  Their message could be implied instead of being explicit against the Arabs.  While the pro-right-wing Israel supporting groups may claim that IAW displays explicit hatred against Jews and Israel, I haven't see any such information in the IAW's website.  I haven't seen anything implicit either.  Then again, my views are subjective just as my views about the Jewish or pro-Israeli groups could also be deemed subjective.

If one were a principal or teacher at a school, would you consider banning T-shirts with JDL, CJC, CIC, or B'nai Brith logos?  These groups could be preaching hatred.   What if you don't?  Arab and Muslim Canadian students may complain by either bringing in their own T-shirts or by disripting the learning environment because they will claim that the pro-Israeli students are first disrupting the learning environment.

Outside the school enviroment the IAW supporters can now state that the pro-Israeli groups are hate groups.  One may agree or disagree.  The point is that they can state this now.  I do believe that in the United States, the JDL is considered a terrorist organization along with KACH.  In Canada, only KACH is considered a terrorist organization.

I'm starting to ramble on.  I don't dispute the decision of the TDSB.  The problem for pro-Israeli groups is that people will start calling their groups pro-hate groups whether or not one agrees.

Skinny Dipper

Hi Jaku,

As I stated to Unionist, it doesn't matter if the Jewish organiztions are hate groups or not.  The opponents of these groups will find a way to state that they are hate groups.  For example, if one supports the taking of land from Arabs to build Jewish settlements on the West Bank, then one hates Arabs.  If one supports Israeli checkpoints thoughout the West Bank in order to inhibit the movement of Palestinians, then one hates Arabs.  If one supports the wall, then one hates Arabs.

If a girl asks some boys to join in a game of soccer and the boys say "No," the boys could state that they don't hate girls.  They are just being pro-boys for the soccer game.

remind remind's picture

Oh jaku you surely are not saying that the IJV, does not represent people in the Jewish community are you?

skdadl

Skinny Dipper, I take it that Unionist is saying that we should not become what we behold. You are in danger of advocating the logic that drives, eg, the CPCCA, and that seems to me a very bad idea -- in fact, a totally unprincipled one.

 

Point of information: I don't think the U.S. lists the JDL as a terrorist organization, but the FBI have repeatedly described their activities as terrorist, both before and after 9/11.

remind remind's picture

Now back to the CIC commentary in response to Libby's position,

 

This little comment stood out:

Quote:
The attempt to compare Israel, a democracy that provides full rights to its Arab minority population

 

Really, they dare fabricate and yet feel justified that they are speaking truths and can thus condemn Libby and the NDP, after such a load of BS?

It seems we are supposed to overlook roads that Palestinians are not allowed on, the encroachment of settlers, the wall, the blockade of Gaza, failure to allow equal movement through other bordering country's borders, in order to accept their words?

 

What the hell is "its minority population"? They are speaking as if Palestinians are not their own population, in their own territory.

 

Which indeed interestingly lead them to make a huge mistake, as they followed the falsification of the actions above with:

 

Quote:
part of a larger concerted campaign to delegitimize the State of Israel.

 

Where they actually apparently unknowingly acknowlege, they are colonial occupiers of another people's land. And indeed have indicated that Israel can honestly be delegitimized as a country. They seriously undercut themselves with that addition. Good for them.

Skinny Dipper

Hi skdadl,

Yes, I am still here.

No matter what the IAW and pro-Palestinian supporters may say, the anti-IAW will still describe IAW and its suporters as Jew-haters and anti-Semitic.  Take the high or low road.  It's up to the IAW supporters.

If your infomation is correct about the JDL, thanks for correcting me.

remind remind's picture

The FBI did not describe the JDL as terrorists it listed them as terrorists see this thread

 

aka mycroft wrote:
I guess the JDL will also be suing the FBI for calling it a "violent extremist Jewish organization", listing it in its Terrorism 2000/2001 report and referring to its activities as "terrorist". The JDL is also listed in the Department of Homeland Security funded MIPT Terrorism Database which refers to "the group’s terrorist campaign".

 

Skinny Dipper

I'll write one more comment before I depart from the computer. (I do need a life away from the keyboard.)

Just because the TDSB has banned IAW and its related activities, it doesn't mean that life becomes impossible.  One does not need to have a group in a high school to get the message through.  Activities can take place off school property.  Here are some options:

Set up a separate organization to work with high school students.  Give it a completely different name.  Give it a positive name.  Have youth organizers.  This won't get you into the high schools, but that does not matter.

Distribute literature and locker magnets off school property.  Hold a few speeches in front of the Pizza Pizza or similar place.  Give out more magnets.

Note: IAW has been banned.  So far, there is no ban yet on "Israel = Apartheid."  If there is a ban, that will be good publicity for you.

One advantage that you will have over pro-Israeli student groups is that your group will likely be multi-ethnic and multi-racial.  There will probably be a diversity of leadership that can reach out to many students.  Based on my high school experience as a student, many Jewish students (especially staunch pro-Israeli students) live in their own little cliques.  They have very few non-Jewish friends.  This will make it harder for them to reach out to their fellow non-Jewish students.  Their only option is to seek support from the school administration through their parents.  Use that to your advantage. "Young people vs. Jewish parents."

IAW may not be acceptable in the high schools.  You might be able to get away with BDS.  It means boycott, divestment, and sanctions.  One does not need to attach BDS with Israel on a T-shirt.  Just talk about BDS off school property.  The students will get the message of BDS like a Nike swoosh. Have T-shirts which state "Bob, Doug, and Sandra."  Be imaginative.  Tell them to imagine living in suburban Toronto and not being allowed to go to the Rogers Centre for a concert because the authorities have set up a wall and checkpoints which inhibit your movement.  A high school student may understand that.

Have fun.

Added comment:

Do remember that if you wish to target high school students, make sure that your message is at a high school level.  Yes, they are intelligent, but they may not have the same kind of worldly experience that an adult may have.  Your messages should be at grade-nine to twelve levels.  Have printed materials and video featuring young people in the West Bank, Gaza, and Israel.  Use Deborah Ellis's Three Wishes as a reference.  Again, have young people involved in the planning.  Have young people talking to young people.

B-Bob

D-Doug

S-Sandra

Jaku

Skinny Dipper wrote:

Hi Jaku,

As I stated to Unionist, it doesn't matter if the Jewish organiztions are hate groups or not.  The opponents of these groups will find a way to state that they are hate groups.  For example, if one supports the taking of land from Arabs to build Jewish settlements on the West Bank, then one hates Arabs.  If one supports Israeli checkpoints thoughout the West Bank in order to inhibit the movement of Palestinians, then one hates Arabs.  If one supports the wall, then one hates Arabs.

If a girl asks some boys to join in a game of soccer and the boys say "No," the boys could state that they don't hate girls.  They are just being pro-boys for the soccer game.

Skinny Dipper, I first want to note how appreciative I am of your civil tone.

I understand your point though I would add that a single issue matter that might be interpreted as highly offensive or targeting a specific faith group is far different in my view than labeling an entire organization. CJC for example while strong supporters of Israel are also well known for their human rights and inter-faith/ethnic dialogue work. One, I believe must show great care in not wrongly tarring a group because you disagree with a position it takes, as long as that position is not seen as advcating hatred or contempt.

Jaku

remind wrote:

Oh jaku you surely are not saying that the IJV, does not represent people in the Jewish community are you?

Moi? Why would I say that? Im sure they represent at least a dozen.

aka Mycroft

Jaku wrote:

remind wrote:

Oh jaku you surely are not saying that the IJV, does not represent people in the Jewish community are you?

Moi? Why would I say that? Im sure they represent at least a dozen.

As I recall, public opinion polls indicate that a rather large percentage of American Jews have views on Israel that are far more consistent with those of a group such as IJV than with pro-Zionist groups. If we extrapolate that to Canada I suspect that the CJC represents far fewer Canadian Jews than they, and you, claim. Now that the CJC doesn't even have members (what kind of Congress has no membership?) there's no way to quantify their claims to represent the Jewish community though I suspect B'nai Brith Canada would have some objections to your claims. 

BTW, Hasn't the turnout at the Israel Walk in Toronto dropped by half over the past five years or so?

aka Mycroft

Jaku wrote:

CJC for example while strong supporters of Israel are also well known for their human rights and inter-faith/ethnic dialogue work.

This has some rather interesting results. For instance, CJC has been quite outspoken about the genocide in Darfur but has been absolutely silent when it comes to Israel's decision to close its doors to Darfuri refugees. I suppose this means that for CJC, a belief in the inerrency of the Israeli government trumps human rights but we already knew that, didn't we? 

Jaku

aka Mycroft wrote:

Jaku wrote:

remind wrote:

Oh jaku you surely are not saying that the IJV, does not represent people in the Jewish community are you?

Moi? Why would I say that? Im sure they represent at least a dozen.

As I recall, public opinion polls indicate that a rather large percentage of American Jews have views on Israel that are far more consistent with those of a group such as IJV than with pro-Zionist groups. If we extrapolate that to Canada I suspect that the CJC represents far fewer Canadian Jews than they, and you, claim. Now that the CJC doesn't even have members (what kind of Congress has no membership?) there's no way to quantify their claims to represent the Jewish community though I suspect B'nai Brith Canada would have some objections to your claims. 

BTW, Hasn't the turnout at the Israel Walk in Toronto dropped by half over the past five years or so?

I simply do not believe this. While many American Jews are more progressive on Israel related matters they would still be pro-Israel and never support BDS campaigns as do IJV. In Canada the numbers, Im willing to bet are much more different tending to be more conservative. Would like to see your studies you mention that would prove your point.

aka Mycroft

Jaku wrote:

aka Mycroft wrote:

Jaku wrote:

remind wrote:

Oh jaku you surely are not saying that the IJV, does not represent people in the Jewish community are you?

Moi? Why would I say that? Im sure they represent at least a dozen.

As I recall, public opinion polls indicate that a rather large percentage of American Jews have views on Israel that are far more consistent with those of a group such as IJV than with pro-Zionist groups. If we extrapolate that to Canada I suspect that the CJC represents far fewer Canadian Jews than they, and you, claim. Now that the CJC doesn't even have members (what kind of Congress has no membership?) there's no way to quantify their claims to represent the Jewish community though I suspect B'nai Brith Canada would have some objections to your claims. 

BTW, Hasn't the turnout at the Israel Walk in Toronto dropped by half over the past five years or so?

I simply do not believe this. While many American Jews are more progressive on Israel related matters they would still be pro-Israel and never support BDS campaigns as do IJV. In Canada the numbers, Im willing to bet are much more different tending to be more conservative. Would like to see your studies you mention that would prove your point.

I'd like to see your "evidence" that only a dozen Jews support IJV:) BTW, you haven't responded to my comment about participation in the annual Israel Walk falling by 50% over the past 5 years, and this despite (or because of) the Gaza War and the increasingly desperate and jingoistic pro-Israel campaign from CJC, BBC, CIC et al.

Prophit

aka Mycroft continues to engage in trying to divert and confuse. Jacu asked to see proof of his allegations which he then tries to maniputae by demanding that Jacu show proof of his insinuation that there are only a dozen supporters of IJV. And here's the difference; Jacu made no claims of studies and the like. Indeed he wrote (as I read it) in a more sarcastic vein, but that is just me.

I agree that Jews in Canada are not always in sinc with CIC but there is no doubt in my mind that unlike IJV the overwhelming number of both Canadian and American Jews pass the "J-test".

 

“ According to the paper, “By implicitly shifting the debate from Israeli policy to Israel’s right to exist, BDSers have provided what we could call ‘the J-Street Test.’” The “test,” Troy explains, is a way of drawing the line between honest criticism of Israel and its policies on the one hand, and demonization that seeks Israel’s destruction on the other. J Street, much castigated by many the Jewish community for its ongoing, strident criticism of the Israeli government, “passes the test” as an honest critic of Israel because it condemned the BDS movement, he said. The paper quotes Tal Shechter of J Street U, who wrote, “We should be investing – not divesting – in our campus debate, in our communities and in the people who will bring about change in the region. That’s why J Street U is launching an ‘Invest, Don’t Divest’ campaign today to raise money for two organizations – LendforPeace.org, a Palestinian microfinance organization set up by students like us, and The Center for Jewish-Arab Economic Development, which promotes Jewish-Arab Economic Cooperation in Israel.” “I disagree with J Street, and I’ve written publicly about my disagreements,” says Troy, “But they didn’t get dragged, like some other well-meaning activists, into a prejudiced, obsessive campaign over Israel’s very existence.”

 

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=170710

 

IJV does not come close to passing the "J-Test"

Ripple

I was in my teens when Mandela was released from prison, so maybe someone more involved in the South African anti-apartheid movement at the time could tell me ... did white South Africans - allies or otherwise - determine the legitimacy of the tactics of the struggle?

Unionist

If I were an Israeli, I would press for the immediate elimination of all laws and practices that provide any favoured status to Jews (starting with the obscene "Law of Return", then the JNF land ownership polices, checkpoints, walls, etc.); for the immediate withdrawal from all occupied territories to pre-1967 borders; for the immediate dismantling of all the illegal settlements therein (that is - all of them); for the immediate dismantling of Israel's nuclear arsenal; for the immediate recognition of the Right of Return of Palestinians to their homes and/or compensation for losses incurred. Whether all this would lead to one state, two states, a federation, or some other solution, would be up to all the people of the region to decide jointly - once their national rights were recognized and restored.

Do I pass the "J-test", Prophit?

Because I'll tell you something. By putting the plight of the Palestinian people in second (or shall we say last) place in all your posts, you have dismally failed the H-test. Let me know if you don't get it.

aka Mycroft

Attachment to Israel Declining Among Young American Jews

 

Anyway, neither Jaku nor prophit have addressed the progressive drop in numbers attending the annual Israel Walk.

aka Mycroft

Hannah Arendt and Albert Einstien fail the "J-Test" too not to mention Yehudi Menuhin.

Jaku

AKA Mycroft "I'd like to see your "evidence" that only a dozen Jews support IJV:)"

 

I asked you first for your proof which you noted. I never claimed to have proof, I was being a bit obtuse so maybe two dozen. So waiting for your proof...mine is just guess work.

Prophit

aka Mycroft wrote:

Hannah Arendt and Albert Einstien fail the "J-Test" too not to mention Yehudi Menuhin.

Do you mean this Albert Einstein who supported the Zionist cause:

 http://www.zionism-israel.com/Albert_Einstein/Albert_Einstein_zionism.htm

Lord Palmerston

Jaku wrote:
In Canada the numbers, Im willing to bet are much more different tending to be more conservative. Would like to see your studies you mention that would prove your point.

More conservative than IJV?  I don't doubt it.  But much more progressive than CIC, Bnai Brith and probably the CJC as well.

Jaku

Ya probably true.

genstrike

Keep in mind that there is still work to do on this issue - a tory MLA has promised to bring in a similar motion in Manitoba.

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