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Get ready for Justin-mania!

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jjuares
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Joined: Jan 21 2012

Unionist wrote:

Yes, and in Mulcair muzzle-mania:

Quote:

 

Well, I sure hope he doesn't try and muzzle people by citing non-existent policy. That would be just plain wrong.


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

jjuares wrote:

Well, I sure hope he doesn't try and muzzle people by citing non-existent policy. That would be just plain wrong.

I didn't mean to set you off on this tangent, jjuares. Nor was my post directed at you. The previous poster called Debater a "Liberal Party shill". That's a personal attack on a current babbler. Then he speculated that autoworker, another current babbler, was really Debater. You joined in the fun. These are personal attacks, they're hurtful to real people, and are strictly banned under babble policy. From a political standpoint, they also are regressive and cheap. If you can't refute someone's posts (assuming everyone is posting in good faith - not trolling, which neither Debater nor autoworker have done), then perhaps it's best to take a break and examine one's own deeply held partisan convictions. In any event, "nyah nyah you're an imposter, you're a shill, lousy Liberal, sock puppet" - it ain't how the left operates. Not on babble, in any case.

 


janfromthebruce
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Joined: Apr 24 2007

Whose Liberals Will Justin Trudeau Lead?

I so loved many lines in this article by Dobbin:

You would think that federal Liberals would by now have immunized themselves against the affliction that almost did them in: delusional giddiness at the prospect of a political saviour. It is embarrassing watching Liberals talk about Trudeau 2.0 -- as if outpunching a Conservative in the boxing ring somehow qualifies for him taking on Stephen Harper's right wing political machine.

It's time for some distance and really see this messiah for what he represents or doesn't in my view.

Any euphoria accompanying Trudeau's leadership bid is rooted in a convenient amnesia about just what the Liberal party is and what it has stood for over the past 18 years under Jean Chretien and Paul Martin. While Justin might make people feel good, his party effectively paved the way for what Stephen Harper is now doing to the country by establishing the new political paradigm by which big business runs the country.

To be sure, Harper, with his unvarnished libertarianism is unique in Canadian political history in the degree to which he wants to dismantle the activist state and democratic governance. But the Liberals are so complicit in this grand project the notion that we should turn to them for salvation is laughable. It was Paul Martin who, more than any other finance minister including Flaherty, gutted the federal state and boasted that he had taken federal spending (as a percentage of GDP) back to levels not seen since 1950.

Paul Martin's legacy consists of two principal items: slashing 40 per cent of the federal contribution to social programs while ending the universality principle and then implementing a five year, $100-billion tax cut for corporations and the wealthy that ensured those cuts would never be reversed.

Convenient amnesia is right - they want Canadians of the progressive side to forget who they actually represent and always have and it's the folks associated with the occupy movement or the 99%. Again, this is about trying to fake left and as always rule right.

Ouch but so on the mark!

Where was Justin then? Did he write an op-ed denouncing this vicious attack on what previous Liberal and NDP parties had created? Did he call up Paul Martin and ask him what the hell he thought he was doing? If he did, now would be a good time to tell us about it.

Nay, Trudeau did squat and said squat except to go around the country giving youth empowerment talks to high school kids making them all think he was one with the kids. He's not, and never was.

Why?

There is no indication that Trudeau thinks any mistakes were made. He is, in his attitudes, ideology and patrician background, a full patch member of the Liberal gang. The only thing likely to be renewed is classic Liberal opportunism: run from the left and hope to govern from the right. The 1993 Red Book of Liberal promises turned out to be a book of lies. Trudeau will have to work hard to convince people he won't play the same game.

I really think that the younger members of our party need to get out and we need them to go talk to our high schools across the country. I know that Ruth Ellen B has gone out and about and is well received and is famous in her own right.

Rookie NDP MPs say it’s been a steep learning curve

I think that the previous author provided a homogeneous comment about the newer MP NDPers that isn't true and especially for all.

Alexandre is a real pitbull and has made his mark in parliament. Also another commented that she changes her talking points to suit her. There is nothing wrong with being given talking points and than changing them to reflect how you would say it.

More than a year ago, Alexandre Boulerice was a union rep working for CUPE in Montreal and he used to contribute money to the Quebec separatist party Québec Solidaire. Today, the 39-year NDP MP, who is no longer a member of Québec Solidaire, is a hot ticket in Question Period.

Last week, Mr. Boulerice was angrily asking the Conservative government on national TV why it allegedly pushed for a man named Robert Abdallah, now accused of participating in a kickback scheme, to be appointed to a Port of Montreal post in  2007.

“Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the Hon. Member for Nepean-Carleton once again behaved like a clown. Instead of answering serious questions about pressure exerted by the Prime Minister’s Office, he called into question my love of Canada,” he said. “Yet, his histrionics do not change the fact that the Prime Minister’s advisers twisted some arms to get Robert Abdallah, a man now accused of being part of a corruption scheme, appointed to a post with the Port of Montreal. Why was the government so determined to get Robert Abdallah appointed to this position? What was it expecting in return?” fired off Mr. Boulerice.

 

 

 


Arthur Cramer
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Joined: Nov 30 2010

Did no one listen to Cross Country Checkup other then me? Has anyone else been cut off when they got on but wanted to say something that went contrary to the domniating meme of the discussion occurring that day? I was on hold, told I was next, they took 2 calls ahead of mine and I was cut off. Anyone else have this treatement. I put in a complaint with the ombudsman.


Arthur Cramer
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Joined: Nov 30 2010

My complaint to the CBC Ombudsman:

 

I called into CCC this weekend to make a comment that was contrary to the dominating meme of the day's discussion, mainly that Justin Trudeau was getting a free ride in the media, and to dispute the meme that somehow he represented change.

I called at 1625 and was called back almost right away and told I would be getting on. I was subsequently told by a Producer, a women with an English accent that I was next. Rex next took two calls, and with 10 minutes in the show I was disconnected.

Almost the entirety of the show consisted of guests and callers extolling Mr. Trudeau's virtues. This was also reflected on the show's website where listener emails as a whole were friendly to Mr. Trudeau.

I called in and go on the air at the time of 2011 election, and got into a shouting match with Rex. He cut me off and after doing so accused me of being untruthful.

So, my question is this, does Rex see who is calling and does he tell Producer's whether he will speak with the caller? Or does he have the ability to remove the call from the queue himself. Does he take calls as given to them or does he chose to whom he speaks.

Clearly, I was going to make comments that entirely opposite to what he had been aired up to that point. I had the same experience last week on another topic of discussion when I was told that I would get on and then told i wouldn't. Again I had been told by I am assuming the same producer, a women with an English accent I was next and then towards show's end apologized by her for not getting on.

Is Rex controlling who is getting on and what actions will you take if this is the case to prevent his doing so?

I look forward to your quick reply. Thank-you.


Arthur Cramer
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Joined: Nov 30 2010

I am so sick of the CBC. I don't care what happens to them. Really, what good are they? The are simply another LPC mouthpiece. What a bunch of creeps.


kropotkin1951
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Joined: Jun 6 2002

I haven't listened to Cross Country Upchuck for a decade because Rex is a biased asshole and a bully.  Why would anyone give him support by driving up his listeners total.  You have a choice just turn the right wing jerk off.

Here Arthur is a website to most of the radio stations on-line in Canada.  Checkout the campus radio stations and you will find some good debates and discussions as well as music.

http://www.canadianwebradio.com/


Arthur Cramer
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Joined: Nov 30 2010

K1951:

Thanks very much for that. Why listen? Because I just can't help myself. But, really, yesterday was just ridiculous. I am teling you they screened out every anti Lib/Trudeau phone call or response. If were to believe the CBC the election is over, because Canadians don't need to hear what the Lib's ideas are because the LPC is still "Canada's Natural Governing Party". It makes me so mad. I really don't care what happens to the CBC. They are totally useless as an alternate voice nationally. It drives me jus to crazy and makes me so mad.


Brachina
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Joined: Feb 15 2012
Another example for compasion sake of Mulciar's leadership. http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1267999--tim-harper-... Why go with a phony like Justin when you have the you have the real thing like Mulcair.

felixr
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Joined: May 6 2012

Arthur Cramer wrote:

I am so sick of the CBC. I don't care what happens to them. Really, what good are they? The are simply another LPC mouthpiece. What a bunch of creeps.

Just like Radio Canada. Not even the Liberal "sell my grandma for a dollar" rump caucus is going to cry when Harper yet again rips the heart out of the CBC in 2013 budget. In fact, if the CBC Liberal shills are lucky, maybe Justin Trudeau will prove the Liberal Party's salvation and can plunge the knife himself in 2016.


mark_alfred
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Joined: Jan 3 2004

Interesting article from Dobbin about Trudeau.  However, I do feel that Mulcair likewise has been a bit too vague about policy direction intentions (especially regarding tax reform).


Brachina
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Joined: Feb 15 2012
http://www.nationalpost.com/m/search/blog.html?b=fullcomment.nationalpos... http://www.nationalpost.com/m/search/blog.html?b=fullcomment.nationalpos... Some interesting thoughts on Trudeau and in Frum's case its via a comparison with the American system and which I agree.

jjuares
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Joined: Jan 21 2012

Unionist wrote:

 You joined in the fun.

Thank you for the response I really don't want to spend any more time on this. However, I dislike it when people ascribe motives to me that are false. My only point was that I didn't want you to bully me into silence invoking a non-existent rule. That was breaking babble policy by stating an inacurate piece of information. One that you could have easily verified before posting. You broke the rules not me.

 As for "joining in the fun". I find that comment demeaning.The irony is not lost on me that your insult is accompanied by a lecture on civilty.  


MegB
Online
Joined: Nov 28 2001

David Young wrote:

Arthur!

I don't know about you, but 'autoworker' is sounding more and more like 'debater'.

Remember THAT Liberal Party shill?

When personal remarks and speculation about individual babblers get thrown around, things frequently go south.  If you must disagree, please stick to criticizing the ideas and not the individual.


autoworker
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Joined: Dec 21 2008
Justin appeals to those who are not dispassionate in the voting booth. He represents, to many who actually vote, youthful vigour, emotional engagement, and a refreshing paucity of intellectualism. He's a populist who's currently popular because he's not a pretentious philosopher king (corronated or not). At the moment, he has a certain je ne sais quoi that defies gravitas. That may be enough to float the Liberal balloon over the Rideau.

Brachina
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Joined: Feb 15 2012
I'd refute Autoworker's last statement if I actually knew what it actually meant. What's Paucity? Truth is Justin the MP/Man isn't dangerous, Justin Trudeau the myth is very dangerous. He has smart people backing him that can weave an illusion of substance around him. Its the NDPs job to expose him and remind Canadians how many times he voted with Harper.

Brachina
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Joined: Feb 15 2012
I'd refute Autoworker's last statement if I actually knew what it actually meant. What's Paucity? Truth is Justin the MP/Man isn't dangerous, Justin Trudeau the myth is very dangerous. He has smart people backing him that can weave an illusion of substance around him. Its the NDPs job to expose him and remind Canadians how many times he voted with Harper.

Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

Brachina wrote:
What's Paucity?

It's where my cat was born.

 


Catchfire
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Joined: Apr 16 2003

autoworker wrote:
a refreshing paucity of intellectualism.

This is maybe my favourite phrase ever.


Stockholm
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Joined: Sep 29 2002

autoworker wrote:
He's a populist who's currently popular because he's not a pretentious philosopher king (corronated or not).

In other words, he's famous for being famous,

btw: I hate to be picky about "grammar" but this is one pet peeve of mine - there is no such word as "coronated" or "coronate"...the noun for event is a "coronation", the verb is "to crown" as in "...he's not a pretentious philosopher king (CROWNED or not)."


kropotkin1951
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Joined: Jun 6 2002

Politics for Dummies is going to be his theme.  What Canadian youth are looking for are leaders with good hair, a fine pedigree and patrician airs.  Policy is boring.


Ippurigakko
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Joined: May 30 2011

kropotkins1951, i disagree with you, im a youth i wasnt looking for handsome! Im looking for party platform.

Innovative Research says

Youth Issues
Which party was most in touch with youth issues?
The NDP were seen as talking the most about the issues youth care about. Nearly half of respondents

(46%) felt the NDP were talking the most about issues they care about in this election, followed by the
Conservatives at 23%, the Liberals at 16% and the Greens at 8%.

• The NDP issues that resonated with their supporters were largely issues related to social services
such as healthcare funding and the commitment towards a public delivery of healthcare,
education and tuition and family support services.

• Conservative issues that resonated with their supporters were strengthening the economy, jobs
and tax cuts.

• Liberals were seen by their supporters as talking primarily about financial assistance for students,
education and tuition.

• Green supporters heard almost exclusively environmental issues coming from the party.

• Bloc supporters heard sovereignty and defending Quebec’s interests as the most important issues
to come out of the party,


autoworker
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Joined: Dec 21 2008
Stockholm wrote:

autoworker wrote:
He's a populist who's currently popular because he's not a pretentious philosopher king (corronated or not).

In other words, he's famous for being famous,

btw: I hate to be picky about "grammar" but this is one pet peeve of mine - there is no such word as "coronated" or "coronate"...the noun for event is a "coronation", the verb is "to crown" as in "...he's not a pretentious philosopher king (CROWNED or not)."

Actually, one of my pet peeves is anal-retentive pedants who fail to detect their own catachresis, in their haste to point out incorrectness in other people's grammar, when a simple word search would confirm that "coronated" is a proper verb (although, mea maxima culpa, I did spell it incorrectly). What is it about Justin that brings out the nastiness in Dippers?

MegB
Online
Joined: Nov 28 2001

Unionist wrote:

Brachina wrote:
What's Paucity?

It's where my cat was born.

 

[tea squirting out nose laughing]

THAT's funny!

[/tea squirting out nose laughing]


socialdemocrati...
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Joined: Jan 10 2012

Yeah, I don't think Justin will really do anything substantial on policy. I'm also not sure that he needs to.

He'll start with some token opposition of Harper: on abuse of power, on ignoring facts.

Then he'll claim Canada has a unity problem: between left-and-right, between Quebec-and-Alberta.

Which, of course, isn't Canada's problem at all, and has nothing to do with why we're losing manufacturing jobs, or why we're slashing our safety net, or why there's zero action to save the planet from global warming.

But the framing sounds nice. The world is becoming too mean, too divided, too polarized. If only there were a third party that was positioned BETWEEN the two main parties, who can promise everything to everyone, and then wait until after election day to break every one of those promises?

It sounds like a winning formula to me.


kropotkin1951
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Joined: Jun 6 2002

Sorry Ippur there is no sarcasm or tongue in cheek button.  I was certainly not serious. I was joking.

Undecided


MegB
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Joined: Nov 28 2001

Sorry if I'm repeating stuff already posted (I really can't do more than skim the 170-odd posts in this thread), but the last time we had Trudeaumania, we ended up with hundreds of Quebecois arrested and held in custody on no grounds whatsoever (other than them being French-speaking).  Not that we'll see another War Measures Act imposed, but Trudeau Sr. milked the whole Platonic philosopher king thing to the max, and then promptly turned into a despot. We seriously don't need another demagogue.

The Liberal party needs a lifeline and Justin Trudeau is it.  He's a smart kid - though not as smart as his Dad - but I can't believe that he would be anything other than a poster-boy for the party in the next election.  The problem is, voters are desperate for someone with charisma, someone who will give them a sense of hope.  Maybe JT is Canada's Obama ...


Arthur Cramer
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Joined: Nov 30 2010

 The problem is, voters are desperate for someone with charisma, someone who will give them a sense of hope.  Maybe JT is Canada's Obama ...

You nailed it Rebecca. I still think we can handle this guy if we have to, but it won't be any easier with the MSM SO in his back pocket; did you hear CBC this weekend? Disgusting!


autoworker
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Joined: Dec 21 2008
If Pierre Trudeau was such a right-wing despot, then why did Castro attend his funeral?

MegB
Online
Joined: Nov 28 2001

Arthur Cramer wrote:

 The problem is, voters are desperate for someone with charisma, someone who will give them a sense of hope.  Maybe JT is Canada's Obama ...

You nailed it Rebecca. I still think we can handle this guy if we have to, but it won't be any easier with the MSM SO in his back pocket; did you hear CBC this weekend? Disgusting!

Yeah, we had Newsworld on as much as we could stomach.  It's clear they already see the Libs as their next master and overlord. 

If I were a Lib supporter, I'd go for Gerrard Kennedy.  Yeah, he's a knee-dipper in Liberal clothing, but he's probably the only person in the party who isn't a completely glib insider who uses progressivespeak without content, or serious intent.  He's useful, but he'll never be an insider unless the party radicalizes. But, although the Berlin Wall fell and Apartheid ended in my lifetime (against any of my expectations), the Libs will be liberal only to USians who long for something better in government.

 


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