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Get ready for Justin-mania!

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Brachina
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Joined: Feb 15 2012
Trudeau's the best thing to happen to Harper, while everyone is obsessed with Trudeau mania the public and the media are ignoring Harpers bad decisions.

Arthur Cramer
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Joined: Nov 30 2010

From a LPC youth member hiding as an "independant" blogger on Huff Post:

"Probed about the NDP at the media scrum after the Facebook summit, Trudeau said, "I'd say they have to watch out. I look forward to waving at the NDP as I pass them on the way to the Prime Ministership."

Stay classy Justin.


janfromthebruce
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Joined: Apr 24 2007

Justin sure sounded like he is entitled to be PM based on his name. So shallow and not classy. In fact, he sounded like a rich snob (which is what he is, so no surprise there).


Arthur Cramer
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Joined: Nov 30 2010

Jan, he may indeed be, but we could still end up calling him the Rt. Hon, the PM before its all said and done. What gets me is the obvious sense of entitlement not only he, but all these Libs have. I mean, I don't have to keep getting hit over the head with a stick to get it. What gets me is the disingenousness. I had some blogger on Huff Post write me that BC Libs "are independant minded". I haven't responded to it, but I see it as typical of their attitue. I mean, what is so independant minded about voting for the NDP because it is the only choice provincially, but voting LPC Federally? How is that independance? But, in their minds, that is how they see the world, and can't understand why no one else could see it differently. It is asstounding. And I say it again, what makes them so damn sure that Tom Mulcair can't compete with JT for the "youth vote"? I mean talk about arrogance, obviously they assume that youth are shallow, and can be herded. How patronizing and patriarchical is that?


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

Boom Boom wrote:

CTV's QP had an interview with Deborah Coyne, and the host said her website is 50 times more informative than Justin's, and went on to talk about a bit of family rivaldy, and Coyne said no, both families keep separate.

Speaking of family, her uncle James Coyne (Andrew's father) died Friday in Winnipeg. He was 102 years old.

 


janfromthebruce
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Joined: Apr 24 2007

I read a wonderful obit on James Coyne, so thanks Unionist.

We have lots of younger MPs in our caucas who have shown to have done much for progressive politics, and without the famour name and all the money.

I think we are forgetting our own ability to fight back - this isn't just about who is at the top but who is actually sitting in those seats. If you go back to May/June of 2011, it was the full court press of Liberals who battered Ruth Ellen Brosseau, a young single mom. Ruth Ellen is now extremely popular in her riding, where one mayor said she will win the next election in a "cake walk".

Our MPs are not manor born and thus have much more in common with ordinary Canadians.


Arthur Cramer
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Joined: Nov 30 2010

Jan, you hit the nail on the head, our abilty to fit back. I forgot we are being led by Tom Mulcair. I forgot how good a leader we have. And when you talk about people like REB, I am sure our other MPs are doing just as well, not only in Quebec, but elsewhere. This is a different NDP then we have seen in the past, and one very capable of taking the fight to the LPC and the Harper Fascists. I feel very optimistic!


autoworker
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Joined: Dec 21 2008
Aristotleded24 wrote:

autoworker wrote:
@Aristotleded24: Nothing is carved in stone, and, indeed, Ontario is diverse (with strengths and weaknesses for all parties, in different regions of the province), but I still believe that the road to 24 Sussex requires a majority of the votes there (something that Harper achieved last election), and the Liberals may be able to reverse that, should Justin retain his current popularity. If Liberals feel that they have a thoroughbred in the next race, organization and money will not be an obstacle.

Ontario is not the whole country, and even if the Liberals were to sweep all of Ontario (which is highly unlikely for the reasons I outlined above) that still doesn't give them enough seats to form a majority government, especially when they are so unpopular in other parts of the country that are gaining more clout in Parliament as they add more seats compared to Ontario. And it is possible to win government without winning Ontario, as Mulroney demostrated in 1988, and as Harper demonstrated in 2006 and 2008.

You're right. I might have said that the keys to 24 Sussex, and a majority government, require a popular majority in Ontario. Mulroney's 1988 win deserves an astirix, I think, because his government was really a coalition with what became the BQ, after Meech. My point is more that electoral victory is now independent of Quebec.

jjuares
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Joined: Jan 21 2012

autoworker wrote:
-- thus proving once again that, in matters of the heart, emotion trumps reason, and charisma reigns triumphant. It may yet come down to a difference in hairstyles.

 

Let us hope that this type of cynicism from the Liberals is rewarded, as it should be, by a stinging rebuke by the people of Canada at the ballot box. 


autoworker
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Joined: Dec 21 2008
I wonder what effect Justin-mania might have on the Ontario Liberals' leadership race, and the prospective ambitions of pretenders to either the provincial or federal party thrones. I can't see anyone losing the Ontario race running against Justin. Then again, there may be some federal hopefuls who might see an opportunity.

jerrym
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Joined: May 30 2009

As noted my many others, Nanos's numbers always tend to be high for Cons or Libs compared to most other polls. However, the 40.6% for BC is truly laughable, as word Liberal is hated in the Interior of BC and northern Vancouver Island. The last Liberal to be anywhere near these numbers would be Pierre in 1968 before he alienated Westerners. It was also only weeks after being chosen leader and the day after refusing to leave after independentists in Quebec started rocks and bottles at him during the St. Jean Baptiste celebrations in Quebec, thereby making Pierre look like a hero to the ROC.

With three years to go before an election, Justin, unlike Pierre, has lots of time in which his meteoric rise can flame out. Furthermore, unlike Pierre, who had numerous legislative accomplishments as Justice Minister, including legalizing abortion and contraception and decriminalizing homosexual acts between consenting adults, has no Parliamentary accomplishments unless you consider boxing match victories part of a MP's role.

Should he continue to do well in polls, the Cons will soon be training their big guns on him, trying to define him before he can, which will easier because Justin still has no program, let alone accomplishments, to provide a stable base on which to build. 

Justin may succeed in building an image without having to show any substance but such an approach usually fails over a three year period. 

 


jerrym
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Joined: May 30 2009

As noted my many others, Nanos's numbers always tend to be high for Cons or Libs compared to most other polls. However, the 40.6% for BC is truly laughable, as word Liberal is hated in the Interior of BC and northern Vancouver Island. The last Liberal to be anywhere near these numbers would be Pierre in 1968 before he alienated Westerners. It was also only weeks after being chosen leader and the day after refusing to leave after independentists in Quebec started rocks and bottles at him during the St. Jean Baptiste celebrations in Quebec, thereby making Pierre look like a hero to the ROC.

With three years to go before an election, Justin, unlike Pierre, has lots of time in which his meteoric rise can flame out. Furthermore, unlike Pierre, who had numerous legislative accomplishments as Justice Minister, including legalizing abortion and contraception and decriminalizing homosexual acts between consenting adults, has no Parliamentary accomplishments unless you consider boxing match victories part of a MP's role.

Should he continue to do well in polls, the Cons will soon be training their big guns on him, trying to define him before he can, which will easier because Justin still has no program, let alone accomplishments, to provide a stable base on which to build. 

Justin may succeed in building an image without having to show any substance but such an approach usually fails over a three year period. 

 

 


socialdemocrati...
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Joined: Jan 10 2012

I'm crossing my fingers that the timing of McGuinty's resignation pushes some Ontario issues onto the federal stage. Namely, teachers, bargaining rights, austerity, dutch disease. Let's see the Federal Liberals either stand with the people, or unmask themselves as stooges for the rich.


Ippurigakko
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Joined: May 30 2011

let hope they elect dalton for liberal leader of canada becuz he will be collapsing in 2015. ;)


janfromthebruce
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Joined: Apr 24 2007

Well Dalton the Liberal did enact legislation that removed education workers' "charter rights". Smooth move considering it was Sr. Trudeau's signature legislation back in the day. But yeah, rights can be paused when it's the libs doing it, just ask another bygone Liberal how that worked out for him - Gordon Campbell - washed up Lib premier of BC.

P.S. I really really love Ontario, Canada, my mom and dad, and red and the maple leaf. What is it with Liberals who wrap up themselves in the flag, like nobody else likes their country. yuke


Aristotleded24
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Joined: May 24 2005

autoworker wrote:
Aristotleded24 wrote:

autoworker wrote:
@Aristotleded24: Nothing is carved in stone, and, indeed, Ontario is diverse (with strengths and weaknesses for all parties, in different regions of the province), but I still believe that the road to 24 Sussex requires a majority of the votes there (something that Harper achieved last election), and the Liberals may be able to reverse that, should Justin retain his current popularity. If Liberals feel that they have a thoroughbred in the next race, organization and money will not be an obstacle.

Ontario is not the whole country, and even if the Liberals were to sweep all of Ontario (which is highly unlikely for the reasons I outlined above) that still doesn't give them enough seats to form a majority government, especially when they are so unpopular in other parts of the country that are gaining more clout in Parliament as they add more seats compared to Ontario. And it is possible to win government without winning Ontario, as Mulroney demostrated in 1988, and as Harper demonstrated in 2006 and 2008.

You're right. I might have said that the keys to 24 Sussex, and a majority government, require a popular majority in Ontario. Mulroney's 1988 win deserves an astirix, I think, because his government was really a coalition with what became the BQ, after Meech. My point is more that electoral victory is now independent of Quebec.

Sorry, there is life in this country outside of Ontario. Aside from Ontario, there are 2 other big regions: Quebec and the West. Winning any 2 of those 3 areas will gain a majority.

Besides, how are the provincial Liberals in Ontario doing right now?


Arthur Cramer
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Joined: Nov 30 2010

janfromthebruce wrote:

Well Dalton the Liberal did enact legislation that removed education workers' "charter rights". Smooth move considering it was Sr. Trudeau's signature legislation back in the day. But yeah, rights can be paused when it's the libs doing it, just ask another bygone Liberal how that worked out for him - Gordon Campbell - washed up Lib premier of BC.

P.S. I really really love Ontario, Canada, my mom and dad, and red and the maple leaf. What is it with Liberals who wrap up themselves in the flag, like nobody else likes their country. yuke

I have written Irwin Coltler twice on Huff Post when he publishes Human Rights based commentary regarding the Teacher's and the fact the Canadian Civil Liberties Association have sided with the teachers assertions that their Civil Rights have been violated. Cotler has not replied, of course. I mean why should he? So I asked if its ok if its a Lib government taking away people's rights int he name of "fiscal responsibility". You know, Lib are "socially progressive" and "fiscally conservative". Translated, screw working people, we'll do whatever Bay Street tells us to do, after all, we're Liberals.


Arthur Cramer
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Joined: Nov 30 2010

In the Huffington Post, "Trudeau to McGuinty, bring it on". I think Trudeau has decided he is a shoe-in to win the leadership and alredy believes he's going to be the next PM. I think he is basing it on bascially turning out a "youth army", who will flock to him and the Liberals because he is young, new and fresh. I think he has decided that this is going to be his strategy and cynically thinks he can resurect his father's memory to appeal to older voters, When you stop to think about it, he is pretty clever, and calculating, It is so cynical though. This guy is unbelievable.


Winston
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Joined: Feb 17 2007

Arthur Cramer wrote:
 alredy believes he's going to be the next PM. I think he is basing it on bascially turning out a "youth army", who will flock to him and the Liberals because he is young, new and fresh.

Justin Trudeau is NOT new and fresh, no matter how often the Liberals keep repeating it, Art. You just keep repeating this to everyone you know:

"Trudeau is not young; he's 41 - that's middle-aged (even if it does make him one of the youngest Liberal MPs)"

"Trudeau is not engaging or empowering young people; he's using them to toil in the backrooms on his vanity campaign."

"The NDP actually puts young people into positions of influence - we ensure they get elected to Parliament."

"This is the same OLD and tired Liberal Party...they STILL haven't learned their lesson, rather than find new and innovative solutions they're hoping to coast on a fabled name from...1968"

"This is the same OLD and corrupt Liberal Party - their defeat at the Federal level did not end their corruption...they continued their theft and lies in Quebec and Ontario and BC at the hands of Charest, McGuinty, Clark"

"This is the same OLD Liberal sense of entitlement - 'I deserve to be PM because my name is Trudeau and I'm a Liberal'."

"Would you trust a PM who was 44 YEARS OLD and NEVER held down a real job for more than 3 years? I know 25-year-olds with more practical life experience!" 


Unionist
Online
Joined: Dec 11 2005

Negative advertising directed against the third party? Sounds like a winning strategy to me.

 


jjuares
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Joined: Jan 21 2012

Trudeau isn't the "last best hope" for the Liberals, he is their only hope.


Winston
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Joined: Feb 17 2007

Unionist wrote:

Negative advertising directed against the third party? Sounds like a winning strategy to me.

I didn't say the party should take out ads; I said that grassroots people should repeat these (absolutely true) memes.


Arthur Cramer
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Joined: Nov 30 2010

Winston wrote:

Justin Trudeau is NOT new and fresh, no matter how often the Liberals keep repeating it, Art. You just keep repeating this to everyone you know:

Uncle, Winston, Uncle.

I wasn't saying I agree with Trudeau's premise; I am just saying that this is his argument and this is the argument his supporters are going to use. I agree with you, its gut wrenching disgusting. And I agree, I think a lot of this is based in his belief that he is entitled to be PM. There is no question that this is foremost in his pyche, and explains his contemptuous remarks aimed at Mulcair.

From my standpoint, it is just one of his many weakneseses, and the NDP should use it against him.

But to get back to brass tacks, again, all I was saying is I was outlinging what I think his strategy is going to be. I think the points you make are good ones and the NDP "brain trust" hopefully is paying attention.


Slumberjack
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Joined: Aug 8 2005

Arthur Cramer wrote:
I think he is basing it on bascially turning out a "youth army", who will flock to him and the Liberals because he is young, new and fresh.

Like flies to the young, new and fresh?


Arthur Cramer
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Joined: Nov 30 2010

I am not saying I believe what Trudeau said. I am saying that is the approach he is going to use. I am a New Democrat, and have voted NDP all my life. I have a party membership. I am not a Liberal. All I was doing was speculating at what I think his strategy will be. Ok, just so this is clear, I can't stand Trudeau, think he is a fake, and hopefully everyone will see him for what he is.


socialdemocrati...
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Joined: Jan 10 2012

Yeah, I get what Arthur Cramer is saying. Trudeau is presented as a "young, new guy". But hard to do that when your dad was the Prime Minister for almost 20 years. And it's hard to galvanize youth to the Liberal party no one under the age of 30 will have been alive when Trudeau was PM. So who are these youth are they hoping that Justin willl appeal to? But they'll keep repeating it, and knowing the media, it might even work.


Boom Boom
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Joined: Dec 29 2004

The panel were laughing at JT's 20 pages of photos (including the cover) in MacLean's last night. The guy on the panel who works at MacLean's (Marty Patriquin)  was clearly embarrassed about it all, but he laughed it off.


Ken Burch
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Joined: Feb 26 2005

Slumberjack wrote:

Arthur Cramer wrote:
I think he is basing it on bascially turning out a "youth army", who will flock to him and the Liberals because he is young, new and fresh.

Like flies to the young, new and fresh?

Well, like flies to fresh...er...something...


Brachina
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Joined: Feb 15 2012
This blog post on Iggy endorsing Justin and Mark is funny. You'd think Iggy would realize he's pure political toxin. Maybe he does and he,really supports Dalron :D http://bigcitylib.blogspot.ca/2012/10/please-just-go-away.html?m=1

Arthur Cramer
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Joined: Nov 30 2010

I dont' know how to ask this question without it maybe appearing rascist, but I am going to ask it any way. Trudeau was in Winnipeg this weekend and packed the house to overflowing at the Punjab Banquet Hall in the North End. Is it a real possibility that the immigrant community vote (I hate writing that; again apologies) is ready to vote for another Trudeua out of nostolgia for an era that never existed under his dad? Is that community bascially unthinking when it the LPC finds the right candidate, or has the NDP actually managed to break through this? I just am not convinced the NDP has. I am absolutely beside myself with the idea that that little punk Kevin Lamoureux might be able to ride Trudeaumania to a seat on the government side as someone's Parlimentary Secretary. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Am I being unfair about this? Is this maybe just rascist garabage from mouth? I mean I don't know. I don't really trust users to vote for their own best interests, I mean look at the US where Romney now has a very likely chance at winninng. Can the LPC dupe voters one more time? Thoughts please.


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