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Green Party Troubles

Brachina
Online
Joined: Feb 15 2012
http://greencanada.wordpress.com/2013/01/27/unite-the-progressives-not-m... This explains why Emay wants cooperation deseperately. Very informative, the Greens maybe in big trouble organizationally. In a way its the opposite of the approach the NDP has taken, where the NDP has focused on building riding accoasations across Canada, especially Quebec, and has boosted funraising to become less dependant on the prevote subsidy. Not to mention the reputation self inflicted damage over the less then green sewage position. And of course May will be at the debates, which is a huge disadvantage for the Greens :p

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Boom Boom
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Joined: Dec 29 2004

Do you really want to knock Wonder Woman?


Brachina
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Joined: Feb 15 2012
LMAO

autoworker
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Joined: Dec 21 2008
Brachina wrote:
LMAO
It's typical for Liberal wannabes to kick 'em when they're perceived to be down. Concentrating scarce resources where they can achieve results is a sensible, 'horserace' strategy, until the other parties have the guts to implement fair voting. Meanwhile, the Official Opposition should stop calling itself democratic. BTW: Does this analysis now apply to the BQ as well?

Brachina
Online
Joined: Feb 15 2012
In part yes, the loss of the per vote subsidy will hurt the Bloc more then the NDP, Tories, or Liberals, but only focusing on Quebec means they can at least conserve some resources. And the interesting part isn't lose of the pre vote subsidy, which the NDP opposed removing, but the ego driven transformation of the Greens by Emay that even Harper would envy. The Green Party is now nothing more then the Emay party. Her ego and selfishness destroyed the Greens promising Quebec wing. Its now thing to focus resources on winnable ridings, its another to take that to the point were the party and the grassroots rot around you. Who fires talent that build what that Quebec Organizer did in what a year? And the NDP is very democractic, we support portional representation, abolishing the Senate, and so on. Doesn't mean we have to like the Emay. And the comparison to the Liberals from you,Automaker is laughable.

autoworker
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Joined: Dec 21 2008
It's all well and good for the NDP to pay lip service to PR and Senate abolition, when it suited them, but now that the horserace favours it with OO status, the idea remains stone cold, let alone simmering on the back burner.

Brachina
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Joined: Feb 15 2012
Simmering on the back burner? Are under the impression that the NDP is in government? Its not. The NDP still supports those positions, its can't put them in place.

Policywonk
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Joined: Feb 6 2005

Brachina wrote:
Simmering on the back burner? Are under the impression that the NDP is in government? Its not. The NDP still supports those positions, its can't put them in place.

If things work out as expected, we will see whether PR gets put on the front burner in BC.


janfromthebruce
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Joined: Apr 24 2007

policywonk, this is the federal NDP. I don't have a say in what happens in BCNDP. But at the federal level we have policy on both abolishing the senate and electorial reform to PP.

And for autoworker to suggest that we would just scrap a policy position supported, long ago, at convention, and part of your last campaigne and also before, is plain silly.

It's good that liberals finally adopted it and thus welcome to the 21st century of democracy. That said, this latest Liberal/Green strategy just reminds me of "strategic voting". Which was code to vote Libera.

It worked out well for the Libs because prior to the NDP becoming the OO, it was the party who came first or second in the riding where all those strategic voting sites "favoured". That had favoured the Libs but in 2015 it will favour the NDP.

So now the new ploy is this pick one out of 3 to run in ridings with a con winner. Let's see how many strategic voting sites start up in 2015 - I'm thinking not a lot.


Catchfire
Online
Joined: Apr 16 2003

I think Elizabeth May has been one of the best actors in parlilament in the current session. I think the NDP would do well to support her and the Green Party rather than wage petty, small-minded attacks on her.


janfromthebruce
Online
Joined: Apr 24 2007

actually nobody is attacking her in what I've noticed in the big politics. Not sure what the NDP needs to support her on: just because she wants to have one party doesn't mean the NDP has to go along because she is one of the best actors.

Obviously many NDP did support her in being rewarded with best parliamentarian but I don't like how she craps on the NDP anytime she wants and the NDP is suppose to remain silent.

Each party does what they want with the money they have. The NDP decided to built local riding associations, and the Greens, under May decided not to. That's the way it goes.


Unionist
Online
Joined: Dec 11 2005

Catchfire wrote:

I think Elizabeth May has been one of the best actors in parlilament in the current session. I think the NDP would do well to support her and the Green Party rather than wage petty, small-minded attacks on her.

What do you have against petty, small-minded attacks?

Sheesh.

Are you a closet Liberal, or what?

 


socialdemocrati...
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Joined: Jan 10 2012

I don't know about best actor... but she's one of the better actors.

Remember when she pretended she was an environmentalist, then ran to the right of the Conservatives in a by-election? Even the Conservatives were like "uh... yeah, I know we said we were for sewage treatment, but if May doesn't care..."

I'd also say her "let's cooperate" act is pretty decent, since she's happy to do it to help the Liberals, but never seems to suggest doing it when it will help the NDP.

She also had a pretty good performance when she stopped mid sentence due to some mumbling, and blamed the NDP for "shouting" her down.

I'd say Justin Trudeau probably has her beat in acting ability, if only because he was a supply drama teacher for three years.


addictedtomyipod
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Joined: Jan 18 2012

The NDP mentioned in question period today the disgusting move by Harper to add 5 more senators to an already bloated expensive bunch of yes men for Harper.  That hardly seems backburner to me.  They want the senate gone....

The Green party financial troubles has E.May worried.  There is no possible way to keep the party going with the per vote subsidy gone.  Their grassroots riding associations are thin to non-existant in many ridings. Their loss in both Calgary Center and Victoria by-elections, after pulling out all the stops and spending lots of money, must have been a bitter pill for her to swallow. 

I might like her if she didn't keep attacking the NDP more than she does Harper CONS and makes me wonder if she works for them.

Looks like a floor crossing to the Libs or going Independant is in her future.


autoworker
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Joined: Dec 21 2008
Brachina wrote:
Simmering on the back burner? Are under the impression that the NDP is in government? Its not. The NDP still supports those positions, its can't put them in place.
That hasn't precluded the BQ from calling for the repeal of the Clarity Act. Will the OO support them in their effort?

autoworker
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Joined: Dec 21 2008
@jan: It would be "silly" if I actually suggested they "scrap" their positions on PR, and the Senate.

autoworker
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Joined: Dec 21 2008
@addictedtomyipod: Good for them on the Senate appointments. You're more current than me. Now that they're batting .500 on those two issues, what about PR?

grangerock
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Joined: Nov 22 2012

Although EMay may not officially be working for Harper, she is doing his job in BC by attacking Mulcair--she is putting politics before climate change


addictedtomyipod
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Joined: Jan 18 2012

autoworker wrote:
@addictedtomyipod: Good for them on the Senate appointments. You're more current than me. Now that they're batting .500 on those two issues, what about PR?

 

Geez, autoworker, maybe I should ask the Mulcair NDP to react to your every whim and desire when you have one.  I could ask them to call autoworker to see what the flavour of his day is.   

 


autoworker
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Joined: Dec 21 2008
addictedtomyipod wrote:

autoworker wrote:
@addictedtomyipod: Good for them on the Senate appointments. You're more current than me. Now that they're batting .500 on those two issues, what about PR?

 

Geez, autoworker, maybe I should ask the Mulcair NDP to react to your every whim and desire when you have one.  I could ask them to call autoworker to see what the flavour of his day is.   

 

Actually, you might want ask them about this new "Unity Act" snake oil they're peddling. Also, on second thought, I think I was being too generous in scoring their Senate bunt a hit. BTW: I like pistachio.

currents
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Joined: Jan 18 2010

E. May can at least say that she voted unlike the NDP against the Libya excursion and the bombing of Sirte, a war crime in any book. Please check this week how Mulcair and the NDP will handle the Mali affair. I am afraid that we know already the answer.


contrarianna
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Joined: Aug 15 2006

Unionist wrote:

Catchfire wrote:

I think Elizabeth May has been one of the best actors in parlilament in the current session. I think the NDP would do well to support her and the Green Party rather than wage petty, small-minded attacks on her.

What do you have against petty, small-minded attacks?

Sheesh.

Are you a closet Liberal, or what?

That's the nature of party camp follower politics in Canada--atavistic tribalism;  hocky-fan mentality allegences--and to paraphrase Seinfeld on sports fans and team jerseys--"in the end, we are all just cheering for laundry" (and mostly dirty laundry at that).

 


Boom Boom
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Joined: Dec 29 2004

EMay was good on P&P tonight - really lit into Harper on cutting back environmental oversight, and on the rumour that Environment will be combined with Natural Resources (Harper said today he has no such plan).

Then with regard to Idle No More said C38 and C45 are absolutely good targets because of the effect they will have not just on First Nations but on all of us. That was an hour ago, so I'm not certain she said these mass protests have to continue in one form or another. But C45 is absolutely not acceptable - and the deal with the Chinese that allows them to launch a global lawsuit against Canada if we don't fill the terms of it  - the Nexen CNOOC deal - absolutely has NOT to be ratified.

EMay said Harper did not campaign for any of this nonsense in the last election and has no mandate to proceed with any of it, majority government or not.


addictedtomyipod
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Joined: Jan 18 2012

 

 

What I saw was an attempt by Evan Soloman trying to make a big story out of nothing.  She asked a question in the House based on rumour and speculation, took the answer from Harper as the only choice and that is it.  May had her moment of media  attention and she was happy with that.

 


Boom Boom
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Joined: Dec 29 2004

So, when Mulcair talks about the same thing, it's a big story, but when EMay addresses the same topics, it's nothing? Thanks for clearing that up. Smile


grangerock
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Joined: Nov 22 2012

I saw your anaylsis of the P&P interview with EMay, so I watched.  Nothing new to add but the usual rumour suggestion.  EMay has close connections to Conservatives because she once worked with them, but I agree with addicted to my ipod that in this case it was to get attention.  I'm sure she gets leaks before the other opposition from her "friends"--always good to get any opposition to Harper.


Bluegreenblogger
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Joined: Aug 25 2009

grangerock wrote:

  EMay has close connections to Conservatives because she once worked with them, but I agree with addicted to my ipod that in this case it was to get attention.  I'm sure she gets leaks before the other opposition from her "friends"--always good to get any opposition to Harper.

Uh, EMay was not a Conservative, she was a public servant, who worked as a special advisor on the Acid Rain treaty. It was the Progressive Conservatives, not the CRAP and it was nearly 30 years ago! I cannot think of a single PC who is still hanging around since that time, so your supposition is not accurate. Besides, I know EMay well enough (despite our differences) to say that she is no friend to the CPC.


nicky
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Joined: Aug 3 2005

If you know Ms May, bgb, well enough to asert, despite much evidence to the contrary, that she is no friend of the Conservatives, perhaps you can tell us why she spends more time attacking the NDP than any other party?


kropotkin1951
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Joined: Jun 6 2002

Because NDP voters fit the profile of the Greens targeted voters?  They obviously hope to convince NDP voters to switch to a party that does not have the negatives that they are asserting the NDP has.


nicky
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Joined: Aug 3 2005

But Kropotkin, doesn't that in fact make her a friend of the Conservatives?


KenS
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Joined: Aug 6 2001

I am most definitely not a fan of eMe. But its ridiculous to say she spends more time attacking the NDP. Its just that you take note of every time she does, and probably hear about it through the grapevine if and when it doesnt make the news.

Like most politicians, most of what eMe says doesnt make the news. And her daily dose of attacking the Cons and Harper is not news. It only becomes news when she succeeds at givin itg a different spin than the purveyors of 'news' can get from the NDP and Libs. [Which she does pretty well at, considering.]

For what its worth [not much], it looks to me like since being elected, and possibly going back further, eMe has actually softened some of her long ingrained personal antipathy to the NDP- that goes WAY way back. Roughly speaking, she seems to have gone from being a somewhat irrational NDP hater [and baiter] to someone who behaves as you would have to expect a competitor of the NDP in her position.

And to give 'credit' where it is due..... This unity of progressives foolishness- foolish because it is not what it claims for itself- is pervasive on the left side of the room... it gets some oxygen among the NDP base as well. I suspect she isnt any different than the rest of them- she believes in this unity stuff. We're compelled to humour you all. Why should she be humoured less?


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