Harper joins U.S. in Iraq, with support of Liberals

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Unionist
Harper joins U.S. in Iraq, with support of Liberals

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Unionist

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/isis-in-iraq-canada-to-send-special-ops-... in Iraq: Canada to send special ops soldiers as advisers[/url]

In 2003, the Canadian government, pressured by massive protests by hundreds of thousands, resisted the U.S. pressure to join the illegal invasion of Iraq.

Today, there is no opposition. It shows how low our country has sunk.

Let us get mobilized for peace and non-intervention. And not get tricked by the bullshit propaganda about ISIS - the same propaganda which was previously used about the Taliban and Saddam Hussein and Bashar Al-Assad and Moammar Gaddafi. Any sycophant is capable of recognizing the sins of the past. It takes courage and principle to expose the crimes of today.

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Ready Aye Ready to serve the Exceptional Empire anywhere on the planet that the locals or their leaders get uppity. After a brief period of military independence Canada is once again in a subordinate position very much akin to the role of a Commonwealth country in the British Empire.

Quote:

New NATO forces

During these talks, Cameron has been focused on the creation of a 10,000-strong expeditionary force outside of NATO.

Those troops would serve as reinforcements in a crisis for the alliance's existing 13,000 rapid response force, which leaders are proposing to bolster with an additional 4,500 high-readiness soldiers that can deploy within 48 hours of an emergency.

The additional forces are meant to address concerns by NATO's Baltic states about possible Russian aggression. Despite moves Friday towards a ceasefire in Ukraine, the allies worry about what Russian President Vladimir Putin could do next.

The Harper government was eager Thursday to promote a laundry list of military exercises meant to reassure jittery allies, including the temporary repositioning of a Canadian frigate into the Black Sea this month as part of a NATO task force.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/isis-in-iraq-canada-to-send-special-ops-...

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

NATO has been emboldened by a British government release on the strategic position of Russia.

You lot might have a gander at this: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201415/cmselect/cmdfence/358/35802.htm

The fact they would publish something like this for anyone to read is asymmetric warfare of its own, speaking as it does about asymmetric warfare.

Canada is ruled by the empire of the Dollar, which may appear anywhere at any time. The military force of the Dollar is called NATO.

Harper is putting Canada in the line of fire.

iyraste1313

congratulations for starting this thread!...

*Today, there is no opposition. It shows how low our country has sunk.*

I was apalled at the lack of energy and dialogue not to mention the railroading at the anti militarism Assembly at the Social Forum...the same old tired useless strategies brought out while shunning any new ideas....to an almost nonexistent audience....

and yet Canada is engaged in war crimes and should be held accountable and brought to world court, maybe the Human Rights Commission of the OAS!

One source of the problem I see is the NDP. So the left has been sidelined, for fear of letting Harper win again?

Whether Harper wins or not, he`s won because the NDP the so called progressive party has adopted his policies 100% or more!
Look at the Ukraine intervention in the Peoples Republic of Donetsk, where I believe that the NDP is more militant than the Harperites.

Canadians have to be shaken up to reality. Canada should be tried for war crimes, whether through a world court or through a Tribunal of our respected legal experts within Canada. 

The Social Forum in Ottawa was not to be the scenario to bring up the issues, our growing military economy, our imperialist policies, and the all party collaborations.

Maybe just maybe the World Social Forum may be the better place.

Somehow though we must shake off the so called antiwar movement in Canada and start anew!

 

Stockholm

iyraste1313 wrote:

Look at the Ukraine intervention in the Peoples Republic of Donetsk, where I believe that the NDP is more militant than the Harperites.

GOOD! as a social democratic party, the NDP should oppose Russian fascist imperialism as it tries to grow like a cancer. The last thing the world needs is a re-cfeation of the Soviet Union under Putin neo-Tsarist rightwing authoritarian regime.

Pondering

I'm all ready to condemn the NDP for being "no different" but on this I tend to agree. Iraq can't be uninvaded. The Kurds are defending themselves and need help. The Western world is responsible for much of this mess but that is all the more reason we should be helping.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

How very paternalistic of you. 

Pondering

kropotkin1951 wrote:
How very paternalistic of you.

How is it paternalistic? The Kurds are asking for help. ISIS is reportedly fighting with US (therefore probably partly Canadian) arms seized from retreating Iraqi forces.

Most of the time I agree that we should let people fight their own battles but I think there are exceptions and there are groups that need and deserve our help if they request it.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Well Ponering, as a retired Vet of 20 plus years with real experience in this, and knowing friends who served on the front lines and dodged bullets, I am completley opposed to any Canadian Military involvement in this. Tell me, I gather you are older, are you going to tell your Grandsons/Daughters, and their kids to go and sign up to fight the evil Islamic threat? Its really easy to call for other people to go off and fight when you are sitting in you comfortable living room in Canada.

Unionist

Thank you, Arthur. It's good to see that experience matters. Unlike Pondering and Stockholm, where the U.S. flavour-of-the-month dictates where we should send our children to die, in the name of "HELPING" the poor ignorant savages of the rest of the world.

Maybe they think "we" should have gone in to help hang Saddam Hussein? Yes, they do. But it's unpopular to say that. And Libya. And Afghanistan.

We must resist these White Christian do-gooders, who will slaughter everyone and anyone until they start to behave the way we want them to.

In the name of Jesus Christ and his eternal love, amen.

 

 

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Unionist wrote:

Thank you, Arthur. It's good to see that experience matters. Unlike Pondering and Stockholm, where the U.S. flavour-of-the-month dictates where we should send our children to die, in the name of "HELPING" the poor ignorant savages of the rest of the world.

Maybe they think "we" should have gone in to help hang Saddam Hussein? Yes, they do. But it's unpopular to say that. And Libya. And Afghanistan.

We must resist these White Christian do-gooders, who will slaughter everyone and anyone until they start to behave the way we want them to.

In the name of Jesus Christ and his eternal love, amen.

 

 

Pretty much sums it up Unionist! Thanks for that post. Most of we ex Vets do not hear enough voices speaking out against involving us in unncessary wars that effect the lives of real people, in very real ways, that extend well past periods of sevice.

Geoff

I wonder which which western countries have the greatest stake in the oil fields of Iraq.  Could it be the US and the UK?  If so, I'm sure it's just a coincidence.   

Unionist

Geoff wrote:

I wonder which which western countries have the greatest stake in the oil fields of Iraq.  Could it be the US and the UK?  If so, I'm sure it's just a coincidence.   

How dare you? We're doing it for Jesus! for LOVE! for KURDS, who are our best friends in the world I guess, suddenly! Attributing selfish  motives to the Saviours of Humanity?

What I'd like to know is, where are Trudeau and Mulcair and Beaulieu and May and the rest? Or are they shitting their pants for fear of being accused of being in league with BEHEADERS?

God almighty, it has become ludicrously simple to lead idiots into temptation, and light fools the way to dusty death.

Our country is finished, unless people of conscience stand up and make sacrifices. That does not include the brainless cheerleaders of political parties.

 

 

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Unionist wrote:

Geoff wrote:

I wonder which which western countries have the greatest stake in the oil fields of Iraq.  Could it be the US and the UK?  If so, I'm sure it's just a coincidence.   

How dare you? We're doing it for Jesus! for LOVE! for KURDS, who are our best friends in the world I guess, suddenly! Attributing selfish  motives to the Saviours of Humanity?

What I'd like to know is, where are Trudeau and Mulcair and Beaulieu and May and the rest? Or are they shitting their pants for fear of being accused of being in league with BEHEADERS?

God almighty, it has become ludicrously simple to lead idiots into temptation, and light fools the way to dusty death.

Our country is finished, unless people of conscience stand up and make sacrifices. That does not include the brainless cheerleaders of political parties.

 

 

SO NAILED IT UNIONIST!

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Pondering wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:
How very paternalistic of you.

How is it paternalistic? The Kurds are asking for help. ISIS is reportedly fighting with US (therefore probably partly Canadian) arms seized from retreating Iraqi forces.

Most of the time I agree that we should let people fight their own battles but I think there are exceptions and there are groups that need and deserve our help if they request it.

Of course when the very same evil Islamists were attacking the democratically elected government of Syria it did not concern you. The MSM plays you like a cheap fiddle. 

I am astounded that the ISIS fighters have managed to outdo the Iraqi practise of kiling babies in incubators. Maybe they are all suffering the effects of PTSD after being locked up in Abu Ghraib prison.

Unionist

Pondering - serious and respectful question - do you believe all the bullshit cynically spewed up by the MSM, or only 99.9% of it? Take your time.

 

Pondering

Canada is not offering to take on a combat role so we won't be sending off our sons and daughters to die.

No, I don't think Iraq or Afhganistan should have been invaded nor Libya. Nor should we be propping up murderous regimes. None of that has a thing to do with helping the Kurds now.

Unionist

Oh yes, we must show the Kurds the way. I forgot. We never invade and murder people. We just help innocent civilians who are being slaughtered by their own compatriots. Thanks for the timely reminder!

 

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Pondering wrote:

Canada is not offering to take on a combat role so we won't be sending off our sons and daughters to die.

No, I don't think Iraq or Afhganistan should have been invaded nor Libya. Nor should we be propping up murderous regimes. None of that has a thing to do with helping the Kurds now.

Pondering, this will escalate. First its arms, then its advisors, then its sons and daughters. Why don't you answer the question for once and show a little respect to Vets everywhere and tell us if you will demand those close to you send their sons and daughters off to fight? You appear to be deliberately dodging the question. Why?  In case you haven't noticed, this is the pattern escalation always takes. This isn't a game. Stop treating this like it is one. More clever rhetoric with no direct answers. Answer the question for once.

Unionist

^^^^^ What Arthur said. ^^^^^

Sean in Ottawa

I think it is fair to say we could do some good there in theory.

The problem is that by being there we will do so much more harm.

And this is often the problem with interference. There is some good you can do but the downside damage is so much greater.

And now we have the US fighting for and against both sides in Syria. That sort of sums it all up doesn't it?

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

Good there in theory? Why don't we play the game theories and the Monte Carlos before we put ONE Canadian in the line of fire? This is not a reccommendable course of action! STAND DOWN!

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

Forgive me for being a white Christian, but Thou Shalt Not Kill seems good enough to me. And, if, by one of your actions, one person gets killed, you have been condemned 3500 years ago. In Greek AND Hebrew.

Sean in Ottawa

montrealer58 wrote:

Good there in theory? Why don't we play the game theories and the Monte Carlos before we put ONE Canadian in the line of fire? This is not a reccommendable course of action! STAND DOWN!

Please read my post again---

You missed the point. I am answering those who say there is good to do by saying by going we do more harm.

Not suggesting we go. The opposite.

And I say in theory becuase the practice is different.

You can always imagine -- in theory -- some good you can do. I am encouraging people to see that in spite of that there is so much harm by doing so.

This was a condemnation of these foreign adventures

thorin_bane

Interesting. Ukraine gets a ceasefire and those nasty russians imediately kidnap someone in Estonia. OK media you can go fuck off right now. This is plain rediculous at this point.

Pondering

Arthur Cramer wrote:

Pondering wrote:

Canada is not offering to take on a combat role so we won't be sending off our sons and daughters to die.

No, I don't think Iraq or Afhganistan should have been invaded nor Libya. Nor should we be propping up murderous regimes. None of that has a thing to do with helping the Kurds now.

Pondering, this will escalate. First its arms, then its advisors, then its sons and daughters. Why don't you answer the question for once and show a little respect to Vets everywhere and tell us if you will demand those close to you send their sons and daughters off to fight? You appear to be deliberately dodging the question. Why?  In case you haven't noticed, this is the pattern escalation always takes. This isn't a game. Stop treating this like it is one. More clever rhetoric with no direct answers. Answer the question for once.

I'm not avoiding the question at all. You are assuming that because I support one thing I support an entire slew of things and then expect me to deny it.

 

iyraste1313

 Iraqi oil plundered by the EIS transits through Turkey. It is loaded at the port of Ceyhan on oil tankers calling in Israel, then returning to Europe. For now, the names of corporate sponsors are not established, but the responsibility of Turkey and Israel is evident....Thierry Meyssam, Voltaire Network

 

Hmm! And Canada supports the zionist regime with military and huge financial support along with Canada`s zionist charities, Meanwhile Canada supplies the islamists with military and financial support in Syria?

Does it take a rocket scientist to figure out that Canada along with its cheerleader section of the NDP is supporting both sides?
For whose benefit? Who are these corporations Canada is prepared to send its innocent sons and daughters to die for, while blowing up innocents in the villages of Iraq and Syria ad nauseum, not to mention Canada`s very own military contractors?

Surely we wouldn`t be so cynical as to suggest that what is going on here is the promotion of perpetual war (aka 1984)?

The fundamental problem for Canadian intellectuals is the fundamental belief in the righteousness of its elites and their institutions of economic, political and cultural power. Surely our higher authorities couldn`t be so nazi like!!?? 

Unionist

The chief warmonger, followed at a respectful distance by the two stooges, visit Iraq together. May history condemn them.

Aristotleded24

For the longest time, there has been no significant difference between the Liberals, NDP, and Conservatives on the foreign policy question, except maybe differences of degree. Why does that come as a big shock or surprise to anyone here?

iyraste1313

 Why does that come as a big shock or surprise to anyone here?

 

It`s not just foreign policy. The NDP will cave to oligarch interests on any matter, despite their rhetoric!
This must be emphasized! Over and over and over again!
As long as the so called left of Canada puts any energy or support in the NDP, no serious political opposition movement will arise!

Nor as I have stated, does there seem to be any hope for an anti imperialist anti war movement.

Somehow Canadians must be shaken to their senses.

The scenario here in Guatemala is very instructive.

Even the so called extreme left URNG caved to the demands of globalization and privatization of seed reproduction, which nearly brought about a national insurrection based on the demands of the total dissolution of Congress and establishing a new constitution based on grass roots assembly and regional pluriethnic autonomy.

Now the road is open to totally new political formations here, with the traditional left totally discreditted!

Unionist

Aristotleded24 wrote:

For the longest time, there has been no significant difference between the Liberals, NDP, and Conservatives on the foreign policy question, except maybe differences of degree. Why does that come as a big shock or surprise to anyone here?

What indicated to you that anyone here was shocked or surprised? The fact that I and others denounce crime when we see it?

Canada didn't send troops to Iraq in 2003. That's thanks to the strength of the mass movement at that time, and thanks (must say it) to Jean Chrétien and his government taking a tough and exceptionally individual decision, which most other "western" governments didn't.

Here's the kicker, A24. Had Chrétien decided to follow in the U.S.'s footsteps, THE LIBERALS AND NDP WOULD HAVE GONE ALONG WITH IT. I put that in big bad letters so that all can see clearly. Just as they cravenly lined up behind NATO and the U.S. in Afghanistan, Libya, Israel/Palestine... Syria (where the NDP was urging Harper to be even more interfering and warlike than he was back in 2011)... Ukraine...

There is NO opposition. You say that's not a shock or surprise? Excellent. What we need is more and more people saying it publicly, loudly, and in large numbers in the streets and elsewhere. Not glorifying the WWI slaughter and the War of 1812 (which no opposition party opposes). Fighting for peace and non-interference. We need to say it here, so that there will be a few Google hits when people around the world are trying to figure out whether Canadians are human beings or robotic killers. So let's join in and yap as much as we can, and maybe, just maybe, we can get enough people to threaten Mulcair and Trudeau into being slightly less infatuated with murdering foreigners in the name of liberty and Canadian values.

 

terrytowel

"The Canadian military should concentrate on peacekeeping and not making war" Jack Layton

It is times like these I wish Jack were still around because I agree with that 100%

Canada has always been a peacekeeping country. But ever since the Cons got into office our country has looked worse and worse on the international stage.

Ironically Brian Mulroney said it best the other day commenting on Canada losing its bid for a seat on the UN Security Council to Portugal, “you should look in the mirror and say: ‘Houston, I think we have a problem,’” Mulroney said.

Canada role should be providing support for peacekeeping and peace building around the world. Just as Jack Layton advocated.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Pondering wrote:

Arthur Cramer wrote:

Pondering wrote:

Canada is not offering to take on a combat role so we won't be sending off our sons and daughters to die.

No, I don't think Iraq or Afhganistan should have been invaded nor Libya. Nor should we be propping up murderous regimes. None of that has a thing to do with helping the Kurds now.

Pondering, this will escalate. First its arms, then its advisors, then its sons and daughters. Why don't you answer the question for once and show a little respect to Vets everywhere and tell us if you will demand those close to you send their sons and daughters off to fight? You appear to be deliberately dodging the question. Why?  In case you haven't noticed, this is the pattern escalation always takes. This isn't a game. Stop treating this like it is one. More clever rhetoric with no direct answers. Answer the question for once.

I'm not avoiding the question at all. You are assuming that because I support one thing I support an entire slew of things and then expect me to deny it.

 

Pondering, OK, first of all, what specifically is it that you see as Canada's invovlement in this? Details please. And also, tell me how you know this won't escalte into Combat missions of one kind or another. Details on that as well please. Thanks.

NDPP

Unionist wrote:

Canada didn't send troops to Iraq in 2003. That's thanks to the strength of the mass movement at that time, and thanks (must say it) to Jean Chrétien and his government taking a tough and exceptionally individual decision, which most other "western" governments didn't.

Just so we're clear on this:

"Another more recent myth about Canadian Foreign policy in the Middle East is that this country did not participate in the 2002 invasion of Iraq...Despite the Canadian and media spin, it is clear that Canada was a close and willing ally in the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

'What the Canadian government has done with regard to Iraq is to involve itself militarily, in largely covert fashion, but publicly to try to take the moral high ground in opposition to the war.' Former US ambassador Paul Celluci provided a good summary of Canada's role in Iraq.

'Ironically the Canadians indirectly provide more support for us in Iraq than most of the 46 countries that are [openly] supporting us.'  - Yves Engler: The Black Book of Canadian Foreign Policy (p 45)

http://rabble.ca/babble/international-news-and-politics/never-forget-iraq

See also: Richard Sanders - Canada's Secret War in Iraq

http://www.globalresearch.ca/canada-s-secret-war-in-iraq/8110

Sanders used to post here but, as with too many other progressive voices , chose (or were made,) to leave. The point is there's lots of material on Canada's secret war in Iraq threads which may help to shed light on the current situation. It should be obviously important that past be gotten right to fully understand present and future. If not the continued lack of resistance remarked here will most certainly continue.

Aristotleded24

Unionist wrote:
Aristotleded24 wrote:

For the longest time, there has been no significant difference between the Liberals, NDP, and Conservatives on the foreign policy question, except maybe differences of degree. Why does that come as a big shock or surprise to anyone here?

What indicated to you that anyone here was shocked or surprised? The fact that I and others denounce crime when we see it?

Canada didn't send troops to Iraq in 2003. That's thanks to the strength of the mass movement at that time, and thanks (must say it) to Jean Chrétien and his government taking a tough and exceptionally individual decision, which most other "western" governments didn't.

Here's the kicker, A24. Had Chrétien decided to follow in the U.S.'s footsteps, THE LIBERALS AND NDP WOULD HAVE GONE ALONG WITH IT. I put that in big bad letters so that all can see clearly. Just as they cravenly lined up behind NATO and the U.S. in Afghanistan, Libya, Israel/Palestine... Syria (where the NDP was urging Harper to be even more interfering and warlike than he was back in 2011)... Ukraine...

There is NO opposition. You say that's not a shock or surprise? Excellent. What we need is more and more people saying it publicly, loudly, and in large numbers in the streets and elsewhere. Not glorifying the WWI slaughter and the War of 1812 (which no opposition party opposes). Fighting for peace and non-interference. We need to say it here, so that there will be a few Google hits when people around the world are trying to figure out whether Canadians are human beings or robotic killers. So let's join in and yap as much as we can, and maybe, just maybe, we can get enough people to threaten Mulcair and Trudeau into being slightly less infatuated with murdering foreigners in the name of liberty and Canadian values.

[url=http://rabble.ca/babble/canadian-politics/foreign-policy-elephant]This elephant has been in the room for a long, long time.[/url]

Unionist

NDPP - whatever conspiracy theories you may cite, Canada didn't send troops to Iraq. Yeah, not being utterly stupid, I understand that Canada supports the U.S. and has its own imperial interests. But Canada didn't send troops to Iraq. Yet now, in 2014, we're doing it. Instead of you and A24 implying that this is business as usual, why can't we expect some minor opposition to this ugly move?

 

NDPP

  I do 'expect some minor opposition to this ugly move'. That's part of what Canadian 'business as usual' is...

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

While it is true Canada did not send troops to Iraq it sent the command officers that were integrated into NATO and the navy. Canada also did not send troops to Libya but we did air mail some bombs to those evil people and of course the navy played its role. 

 

Debater

Unfortunately this is one of the consequences of a Harper Majority.  He is unleashing all of his far-right tendencies that he had hidden in order to get into the office under the guise of being a moderate.

At this stage it is just a small involvement, but the Liberals & NDP must prevent Harper from getting Canada involved in the War in Iraq full-scale like he wanted to do a decade ago.  Thank-goodness we had a Liberal government in power at the time under Jéan Chrétien who, under advice from Jacques Chirac, kept Canada out of Bush's war.  Say what you will about Chrétien, he made the correct decision on that one.

We cannot allow Harper to get away with enacting anymore of Bush's policies.  And this is another reason why he must be stopped in 2015.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

It was the people in the streets that stopped Cretien from sending in the ground troops like he did in Afghanistan. Given pragmatism is the only Liberal ideology it would be astounding if he had done anything else.  As mentioned above he focused on not sending ground troops as a great progressive move while supplying the invasion with critical behind the scenes military support.

To reiterate it was the people of Canada who said no to the war in Iraq not the Liberals.

Quote:

Canada

Canada saw protests in 70 cities and towns (WSWS estimate).[23] The biggest took place in Montreal where more than 100,000 people protested (SW and WSWS each estimated 150,000) despite wind-chill temperatures of below −30 °C (−22 °F). 80,000 people joined a demonstration in Toronto, 40,000 in Vancouver, 18,000 (by police estimates) in Edmonton, 8,000 in Victoria, 4,000 in Halifax and 6,000 in Ottawa. Some of the other major centres where protests were held included Windsor and Calgary[21]

There were protests in 70 cities in total. These demonstrations took place despite very cold weather, average temperatures were below −35 °C (−31 °F).[15][23] In Chicoutimi, 1,500 people braved a −40 °C (−40 °F) wind-chill temperature including wind gusts reaching 50 km/h (31 mph), in what was one of the coldest marches on that global day of protest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_15,_2003_anti-war_protest#Canada

thorin_bane

Unionist wrote:

NDPP - whatever conspiracy theories you may cite, Canada didn't send troops to Iraq. Yeah, not being utterly stupid, I understand that Canada supports the U.S. and has its own imperial interests. But Canada didn't send troops to Iraq. Yet now, in 2014, we're doing it. Instead of you and A24 implying that this is business as usual, why can't we expect some minor opposition to this ugly move?

 

Wrong we did, JTF2 was there and its documented. Not many but 40 or so of the best killers we have is still Troops to Iraq. We also increased the amount of troops in Afghanistan to allow the us to shift resources. So no JC doesn't get any credit.

Unionist

In case I wasn't clear, the issue is to oppose the current intervention in Iraq - by mobilizing opposition, and by putting pressure on any and all political parties. Does anyone think that's important? I'm going to check out some of the peace organizations and see if they're planning anything, or if they've even noticed.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Unionist wrote:

In case I wasn't clear, the issue is to oppose the current intervention in Iraq - by mobilizing opposition, and by putting pressure on any and all political parties. Does anyone think that's important? I'm going to check out some of the peace organizations and see if they're planning anything, or if they've even noticed.

That is very important.  I remember in the march in Vancouver various NDP constituencies marched with their banners as did labour people and anti war people and just plain folks. I went with my three generations of my family.

cassius

The US is responsible for the mess it made in Iraq and Syria; let Uncle Sam fix it. Outside intervention can do nothing but make things worse. Canada should stay out. The NDP leader simply wants to move the party into the centre, where he thinks most voters are. He thinks that will make the party look respectable. Layton did the same. That meant the NDP, by its support contributed, to the mess in Afghanistan and Libya and now this. 

iyraste1313

Congratulations Unionist for your activist position. I was appalled at the antimilitarism Assembly hosted by Canada Peace Alliance at the Peoples Social Forum in Ottawa, the total lack of energy aside from the expected railroading of any opposing ideas...

What we need is a total reorganization and reinvigoration of the anti militarist anti imperialist movement in Canada....

This is crucial! And in preparation for the upcoming World Social Forum in Tunis, where we must present some serious challenging proposals to bring the Canadian Government and all its Parties and media to international legal accountability!

Sean in Ottawa

While my previous post was perhaps less clear than it should have been and misinterpreted -- I'd like to repeat that whatever good people might think you can do getting involved in far away countries that do not want us there, the harm of going in is so much greater.

On top of that, Canada loses its ability to play a diplomatic role in global conflict resolution. The current government has destroyed that ability. The JC Liberals had already done harm working outside UN sanction. I think if Canada wants to make the world a better place it should shut up for a bit and get rid of the Harper government. Then it needs to listen a little and improve things here to provide a better example. The best Canada could do for the world is to improve its environment and create a new working relationship with its aboriginal peoples. Any resources spent outside the country until this is done are wasted.

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

No, I wasn't mad at you Sean at all. I am mad at the Dollar Empire. They worship the eye of the pyramid on the US Dollar bill, and it does not see.

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

In the old days, they wanted to build a pyramid. Now, they just want to build their reputations and their bank accounts. It is more genteel, but the result is the same. Death, slavery, famine, torture.

thorin_bane

Interesting point, I would like to see all the dollar numbers committed by our government and actual dollar spent. First to track the money commited and secondly if they are just bullshitting for a photo op, much like Haiti. Same issue with the public sector cuts, or is it increases? I see they layed off this number and that number, but when the new job numbers come out and their is a huge drop in private companies yet the job numbers is down only slightly it begs teh question are they practicing keynes even while saying how bad socialism is?

Paladin1

I think us going to Iraq is a good thing.  I consider myself blessed to be removed from the finer points of politics and party vs. party nit picking.  I turn on the news and I see people getting their freaking heads sawed off.  I've been up close and personal with the aftermath of what happens when these types of people try to "send a message", it's heart wrenching.  i don't care about politics as much as I care about seeing human beings getting their heads sawed off and want to stop it.

 

Goole pictures fromt he raping of nanjing. It's not safe for work so I won't post it here but seeing pictures of bodyless heads or kids stuck on the end of spears is, for me at least, moving.

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