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That is too long to wait - go Nathan go!
Ethics-challenged Conservatives doomed ... in 2019
It must be spring. The pro-Con-media scandal suppression in full bloom:
[quote]So, no conspiracy, no cover-up, no real outpouring of national rage. No untainted evidence that telephone hijinks were anything but a local oddity, and in a riding where the Liberals were using the same weapons. No sign that voting patterns were seriously affected, no evidence that turnout was suppressed. As scandals go, the absence of scandal is virtually scandalous.[/quote]
On the other hand:
[quote]A Simon Fraser University economist says if allegations of vote-suppression calls in the last federal election are proven true, they may have had a "statistically significant impact on voter turnout and election results."
In an unpublished discussion paper, Prof. Anke Kessler estimates a decline in voter turnout due to the so-called robocalls would be between 1,000 and 2,500 votes per average riding, or about three percentage points....[/quote]
Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Calls+have+affected+election+results+pr...
Dr Anke Kessler's Working Paper can be viewed on her site:
@ Work in Progress link
I don't think Canadians are going to want to wait even 3 years to have an election when this election fraud is blown wide open...then there is this new dilema for the conservatives when Canadians start putting the pieces together on WHY ? the Conservatives pulled off an election fraud.
Could it be , they thought the NDP would form a majority government and Jack L become leader and Prime Minister of Canada , it sure looks that way and if so…does that provide motive? Opportunity? Insurance? For the self-serving coincidence that actually transpired?
I ask the question again…what would be the situation if the tables were turned and it was Harper that kicked the bucket..Followed by an NDP majority and then it was found out it was a fraudulent election?
How far would a Conservative go to prevent what they deem to be a socialist government from taking over their country ..just look at the history books !
The conservatives would be better off and should just call another election before Canadians start putting the pieces together...
I don't think Canadians are going to want to wait even 3 years to have an election when this election fraud is blown wide open...
What SOME Canadians may want counts for little.
People for the most part react how they're led to react by the media over time. Treating massive democracy-subverting election fraud as ho-hum, not-so-bad-or-unique, old news, for the most part will be echoed in the sponge-like Canadian mind.
From the nationl post article above.....
"that the senior ranks of any sane government would take such an extreme risk going into an election it expected to win anyway?"
Well I can't take that story seriously at all as it was only a measly 6000 votes (from the area with the big fraud question mark yet) that was responsible for the so called Harper majority..this newspaper is obviously biased....but it does show the enormous power the Conservatives have over the MSM in this country..it's sad some gullible people will actually believe that crap but the truth will eventually come out. They can't control an individual .
Now there whinning how a lot of complaints are via form letters...like it doesn't matter...well people do their tax with so called form letters so that means shit...What is real are people standing in front of a TV camera with affadavits telling there story and qualifying it with a "I want another election because these fraudulent conservative criminals stole my vote"...that will be the ultimate kick in the head for these right wing outlets ...until then they can find patsy's and lie thru there teeth all they want..no one believes them anymore.
New http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zky2bn0Gtyg New
Only 700 you say!
700 is a lot to go on when there is hard evidence.
And if you read the various articles, if they see 700 now, there will be a lot more to come.
what 2004-2006-2008? there must over 1,500.
Has it been 30 days since the story broke yet?
Misleading Calls Followed ID As Non Tories, Voters Say - by Terry Milewski
Pattern of Calls Points to Party's Voter Database, Opposition Says
"An investigation by CBC News has turned up voters all over Canada who say the reason they got robocalls sending them to fictitious polling stations was that they revealed they would not vote Conservative. Although the Conservative Party has denied any involvement in the calls, these new developments suggest that the misleading calls relied on data gathered by, and carefully guarded by, the Conservative Party.
Chief Electoral Officer Marc Mayrand announced Thursday that he now has 'over 700 Canadians from across the country' who allege 'specific circumstances' of fraudulent or improper calls. CBC News examined 31 ridings where such calls have been reported and found a pattern: those receiving these calls also had previous calls from the Conservative Party to find out which way they would vote..."
Even on the CBC news story, if 31 ridings were affected by a robo calling "political super weapon" used by a fraudulent and criminal conservative regime ..and it can be proved that just one call in each riding was used in the fraudulent manner, like they did in their story, a judge would probably look at the 31,000 complaints that aren't 100% proven but sworn in testimony like a witness can be sworn in and convict someone to life ( they don't need hard copy evidence to do that)....hearing and seeing is good enough...so can a robocon victim....convict Harper and fhis band of election cheats and fraudsters ..and demand another fair election, and criminal charges ..BOTH!
When a lawyer starts yapping about the amount of calls a political super weapon can pull off (6 million) and how many calls the fraudulent conservative regime paid for(6 million) .... put 2+2 together...toilet roll + holder....like Pat Martin says it isn't "rocket surgery"
"Pierre Poutine" update:
Despite omniscient claims by another in the previous thread, the identity of "Poutine' is not "well known"; there is no evidence that he was a "freelancer", and he is not "now talking to Elections Canada".
Election Canada is still, allegedly, trying to"trace the origin of the suspect known as “Pierre Poutine.”"
Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Elections+Canada+expands+robocalls+inv...
Both the names bandied about in the Guelph part of fraud categorically deny any knowledge of the fraud (one claims he is being made a fall guy for the Conservative machine). Both have engaged lawyers. --Either may be innocent, or minor players.--Either or both may be deeply involved.--that the Guelph was a "freelance" operation, or someone acting alone, given the multiriding modus operandi and use of the proprietory Con polling database is improbable.
But my guess now, from what has been said in the last two weeks, is that even though Elections Canada has the most information on the Guelph calls, how they were made, who paid for them, etc.... we probably are not going to hear any sooner about charges in that case.
Because Andrew Prescott presumably has been talking to them by now. And even if it was a freelancing operation that would make it straightforward for them to lay charges.... this is one guy they have talking and on the hook. And even if he undertook this on his own initiative [or the Guelph campaign], its unlikely he invented everything about how it was done.
Its going to be a long time before there is a possibility of charges laid for national scale.... but the Guelph case details are going to come out from Elections Canada any sooner, even in the likely event they have all that particular evidence wrapped up. [Although McGregor and Maher may have a tell all story sooner.]
That is factually incorrect, beyond the simple fact two names have been speculated on.
The most famous being Michael Sona, who resigned from his job with an MP when the story broke, but has said vocifierously that he was not invloved. And all the indications are that he was not.
The person who all the evidence points to as setting up the Guelph robo-calls, whether he and/or the local campaign were free lancers or not, has said nothing publicly. His lawyer first said for him that he would be talking to Elections Canada very soon, then withdrew that. Which is a while ago now, and nothing further has been said.
And none of the reporters vigorously pursuing the national case, nor anyone with better knowledge than we have, has commented that the Guelph case in particular, is unlikely to be a case of freeleancing.
Not to mention that my reason for expressing my opinion that the case could well have been one of freelancing, was to warn people that seemed so certain this was part of a national conspiracy. If it turns out that Elections Canada finds no evidence it was, that doesnt mean they are burying anything.
Well they know the pattern of fraudulent behaviour now.
1) phone tory supporter and check on support
2) if still supporting ..give them a lift
3) if not supporting ..redirect to a phony polling station
They can now examine this pattern across the country and come to the logical conclusion....the CPC fraudulently won a majority and the election should be nullified and a new one called..it aint rocket surgery...what's turning out to be rocket surgery is convincing Canadians that a majority of the MSM is biased conservative and obstructing justice and looking just as crooked as the conservatives.
Its even easier than that.
The CIMS does not need any current calling. On tap and easily pulled out in a moment are the names and phone numbers of identified supporters of other parties compiled over time. They can be sorted by location, and many by age and othe demographic criteria if you have a maximizing strategy that calls for that.
You just feed in the phone numbers and the script to the server, and out they go. The tracks and records are all there and collected by EC for the Guelph campaign. The other campaigns will take more work, but there is a digital trail always... which includes passwords of people that used the database. And that cant be stripped out in a way that does not leave tracks, and leaves the CIMS as a secure and functioning database.
John Ivison: Pierre Poutine called voters in ridings across Ontario - not just Guelph
But its all feed from the Conservatives: not so subtle and subtle grist for the 'its all a mistake' that makes what is really just a single unauthorized local perpatrator look like a national conspiracy.
What exactly is "that" which is "factually incorrect"You are clearly still just pulling stuff out of your ...imagination.Marks for moxie, though.
To review some of your previous points:[quote=KenS]Get off your high horses folks.
Andrew Prescott, the Guelph Deputy CM, is the one who has all but admitted to being Mr. Poutine. He's talking to Elections Canada....[/quote]
Answer: He ALWAYS denied being Poutine or guilty of wrongdoing. And by the date of your post (Mar 13) his refusal to talk further with EC was already 4 days old. [quote] On the advice of his lawyer, a key player in the 2011 Conservative campaign for Guelph is refusing to answer more questions from Elections Canada investigators probing fraudulent robo-calls in the riding....Mr. Prescott has publicly disavowed any role in the fake Elections Canada robo-calls and the owner of RackNine said in a media interview this week that he spoke to the man behind “Pierre Poutine” and that this man did not sound like Mr. Prescott....[/quote]
Rather than the appropriate backtrack, you now re-assert it without any evidence, though now reduced from a statement of fact to a "presumption":[quote=KenS]Because Andrew Prescott presumably has been talking to them by now.[/quote]I suppose all the stories about EC still trying to find out who Poutine is, are fake, but it is indeed a "presumption" to declare that is so.
Your previous remark that the identity of Poutine was "well known" was not "speculation" but a declarative statement.
EC isnt faking. Just being cautious.
Even a reporter isnt going to say that the evidence strongly indicates that Andrew Prescott appears to be Pierre Poutine.
But before that lawyer speaking for him Prescott publicly admitted that he is the one that placed the order with Rack Nine while denying it had anything to do with fraudulent robocallls, and 'justified' not reporting it as an itemized elections exspense because it was part of what he was being paid to do.
And after he said that, it came out that the balck ops calls were indeed the ones placed through Rack Nine- its in the court document.
Looks pretty clear.
You should follow more carefully before you accuse people of speculating and making things up.
Again, no sources--one wonders why.
"Speculating" with caveats are fine, statements of tortured "facts" from you are a little more risky.
[quote=KenS]....And after he said that, it came out that the balck ops calls were indeed the ones placed through Rack Nine- its in the court document.
Looks pretty clear.[/quote]
Of course he used rack nine, but if you are using the term "the ones" to specifically say the black ops calls and the ones placed by Prescott were the same, there is no such smoking gun in the "court documents". Lots of Cons used Racknine, directly and indirectly.
I made no claim of his guilt or innocence when I raised his name several threads ago. That remains the prudent position.
Lets see now.
This isnt a court of law. This is a place where we like to do what we can to figure out what is going on.
EC establishes that there were blacks ops calls in Guelph, and that the court docs filed say they were made through RackNine.
And Prescott says he did nothing illegal, but placed the calls through RackNine...
Former Con MP Inky Mark describes the Con CMIS Database:
[quote]....Mark says every time he or his staff would meet a constituent and get their phone number, they were expected to log the information and any pertinent details, including the individual's political leanings and personal interests.
He says the party had control over the entire, nationwide database. An MP and his staff were at the mercy of headquarters, Mark says, because they had the power to allocate and revoke database passwords....."I always knew that I had to do my own thing, because ... they can control you 100 per cent, and that's exactly what happened with CIMS."[/quote]
Yep , these are the guys who'll protect your identity with the internet spy bill.
Only those who stand with pedophiles need be afraid.
WOW ..so just like the Harper regime the database is controlled by the top ..not like how they want you to believe, by the little rouges at the bottom...this is why an inquiry or royal commission would be good....a flow chart could be developed and show the responsibility trail which we all know damn well where it leads...probably just like a pyramid that leads to a office at the top, where everything is controlled and set in motion.
Surely the newspapers would love to draw up some flowcharts to spell it out for people...
from Brian-Michel LaRue's blog[quote]Robocalling Report Extract #1....A shocking amount of personal information is stored on these servers and can be recalled for use in individual campaign offices and on Parliament Hill via a secure VPN connection to the main Conservative Party servers. While this leaves the system vulnerable to [redacted], the greater issue is that in the process of establishing this VPN connection, the data [redacted], and thus, outside of the control of Canadian authorities....
Another worrying feature of the CISM is its ability to be integrated with a feature to perform robocalls on a nationwide level. In fact, the system is designed explicitly for this purpose. The CISM is the only plausible source for the information to explicitly target non-Conservative voters with phone calls — either before or on Election Day. These actions by the system would have been logged and stored in backup....[/quote]
Apologies if this is a repetition, but have babblers seen this? Thought I'd seen all the articles re robocalls, but this guy points to many I missed and in an entertaining way (a panel of comics).
Thanks, Tide Waters. And here is SFU economist Anke Kessler's paper mentiond in graphic panel number two in the page you pointed us to above:
[url=http://worthwhile.typepad.com/robocalls.pdf][size=16][color=blue]Does misinformation demobilize the electorate? Measuring the impact of alleged "robocalls" in the 2011 Canadian election[/color][/size][/url] Anke S. Kessler
[quote=Anke Kessler] Conclusion
"...The results suggest that, on average, voter turnout in those ridings aﬀected by the demobilization eﬀorts is signiﬁcantly lower than in the ridings where no automated phone calls have been reported. ..."[/quote]
This is the equivalent of an elbow to the chops in hockey - Canadians will surely take notice.
The big kick in the groin.... From the Election Act
Nul and void election
523. The election of a person is nul and void if, under section 65, the person was not eligible to be a candidate.
Contestation of election
524. (1) Any elector who was eligible to vote in an electoral district, and any candidate in an electoral district, may, by application to a competent court, contest the election in that electoral district on the grounds that
(b) there were irregularities, fraud or corrupt or illegal practices that affected the result of the election.
You would think with all the irregularities sourrouding so many candidates that the election itself would be deemed null and void and if candidates were stripped of candidate status because of party fraud they most likely would be inelegible candidates , hence null and void election.
At the very minimum the conservative party of canada shoud be stripped of it's party status by Elections Canada and DEREGISTERED IMMEDIATELY...Wonder how the cons are going to like that after stripping Canadians of all kinds of rights and freedoms with their bogus and offensive bills.
You have to wonder why Elections Canada didn't strip their registration after violating the expense part of the act? That was their first big mistake ...If the GG won't play ball and dissolve the illegal government maybe Elections Canada can finally take a stand.
I have to wonder what the procedure would be if the cons were stripped , if they will come to work and find out the locks have been changed and the next party in line takes over till a new election..or if they have a 6 month grace period to git... do we get to beat them with a broom?
A key employee of the company that was used to send out the misdirecting robocalls in Guelph on election day appears not to exist under the name he uses online.
RackNine, the Edmonton company that suspect "Pierre Poutine" used to send voters to the wrong polling locations, is operated by Edmonton businessman Matt Meier, with the help of Rick McKnight, who is identified variously as head of marketing and web developer
And so the story continues...
It wouldn't surprise me if down the line we find the Conservative fraud machine is on an offshore account like some kind of illegal pornography outfit...wouldn't surprise me in the least. Sounds like more names being thrown on top the pyramid.
It's the old Mulroney tactic. If you throw enough mud against the wall some of it will stick. I suppose Burke, the Con candidate in Guelph, feels if he denies it often enough somebody might believe him lol
Harper's message to his candidates about the robocalls prior to the last election:
"Now repeat after me, you heard nothing, you saw nothing, you know nothing. As long as you stick to this story they will never ever catch me or the rest of the boys in Head Office. Get it."
While Most (57%) Believe Elections Canada Will Get to Bottom of Robo-Calling Allegations, Full Majority (75%) Supports Independent Judicial Inquiry Ipsos
You didn't hear it, you didn't see it!You won't say nothin' to no one,Ever in your life.You never heard it.How absurd it all seems, without any proof!
You didn't hear it, you didn't see it!You never heard it, not a word of it!You won't say nothin' to no one,Never tell a soul what you know is the truth!
If no judicial inquiry, then it looks to be the court of public opinion. Apparently the Harpers want more rope.
A good letter from a scrutineer:
[quote]Wed Mar 21 2012 00:01:00
There was a big difference between robocalls
I am very disturbed by the disingenuous discourse that equates the robocall that originated from the Liberal campaign with those that would seem to have originated from the Tories....[/quote]
Although it's a handy abbreviation, it's unfortunate that automated dialer messaging term, "robocalls", has become generally blurred in the public mind (with the assistance of the media and the Cons) with the massive fraud and subversion of democracy. It deliberately blurs the line of automated annoyances with major crime, in order to imply "everybody does it". This obscuring is reinforced in the media (even the non-Sun media) by referring to the systematic criminals in diminutive terms such as "pranksters", etc.
Lovely, just friggin' lovely! This is going to do wonders for Canada's international reputation
Speaker’s riding shifted cash to Tory campaign ensnared in robo-calls probe
Unfortuneately its a poor letter to the editor that only adds fuel do the debate of which tactic is worse. It is not a "legitimate call" when the Liberals not only failed to identify themselves.. but use a false name and false phone number on the robocall itself. Fact is.. thats a dirty tactic, and one that ticks off voters... There is also the fact that if violates elections Canada. That said.... why defend such stupidity and ignorance of the Liberal Campaign. I can't see this helping them next election.. they have soiled their own name for no good reason. Now.. with the Conservatieves.. it is alleged that someone (s) on the Conservative Campaign with information of voting lists and access to CIMS and Racknine put forth an elaborate scheme by impersonating elections Canada. This National Post article demonstrates how little the Conservative Campaign in Guelph is avoiding elections Canada. http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/21/robocalls-company-used-by-pierre... Why are so many afraid to speak. Do they have something to hide... It certainly looks that way.
News from the Yukon
Conservatives deflecting again
So Cons your popularity is not being affected by the Robocall Scandal, is it? Well, read this and weep!
The survey by Environics Research Group provided to The Globe and Mail has the two parties at 30 per cent support among voters. That’s about the same percentage of the popular vote that the NDP earned in the May 2 general election. For the Conservatives, it represents a drop of 10 points.
The Conservatives are clearly paying a price for the robo-calls affair, plans to increase the qualifying age for Old Age Security, legislation that would give the government information on individual Internet accounts, and increased uncertainty over the costs of new fighter jets.
These issues “haven’t been managed particularly well,” said Darren Karasiuk, vice-president of corporate and public affairs at Environics.
“And they haven’t been managed well in spite of the lack of solid and stable leadership from the NDP or Liberals.
“So there’s a disappointment among Canadians – particularly soft Tories – that the promised benefits of a majority haven’t materialized.”
The Liberals are in third place with 20-per-cent support, up one point from election day. The Bloc has the support of 30 per cent of voters in Quebec, only four percentage points behind the NDP, which swept the province last May.
But if the Bloc is threatening to challenge the NDP’s newfound popularity in Quebec, the social democrats can take comfort in knowing they lead in British Columbia and Atlantic Canada, and are a close third in a three-way race for support in Ontario.
They are also the first choice of female voters. And while the Tories continue to lead among voters over 60, who are more likely to cast a ballot than younger people, that lead over the NDP is only seven percentage points, suggesting the idea of raising the retirement age for OAS is not going down well among retirees.
The fact that the NDP has been without a permanent leader may be a bit of a blessing, Mr. Karasiuk believes.
“Some people, without a leader in place, will project a perfect leader in their minds,” he said.
The months ahead are bound to bring changes, as the NDP’s new leader takes the national stage, the Conservatives finally present a budget that reduces the deficit at the expense of government programs, and the Liberals move toward choosing a permanent leader of their own.
But Interim Leader Nycole Turmel can take satisfaction in knowing that, however uncertain her performance might have been at times, she will be handing her successor a party as popular today as when it leapt to official opposition status in last May’s election.
The survey was in the field from March 6 to 18, sampling 2,000 respondents by phone, with a margin of error of 2.4 per cent.
Environics is not the only pollster ever to have the NDP in first place since the fight over free trade. Last August, shortly after leader Jack Layton died, a Decima poll also had the NDP and Conservatives tied.
22 Minutes: http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/Shows/1221254309/ID=2212976804
In other scandal news:
Conservative cabinet minister Christian Paradis broke federal rules and gave special treatment to former Conservative MP Rahim Jaffer, the ethics watchdog said in a report Thursday.
Conflict of Interest Commissioner Mary Dawson said Christian Paradis broke the rules set out in the Conflict of Interest Act when he told officials at Public Works and Government Services, the department he headed at the time, to talk with Jaffer about his company, Green Power Generation.
"Mr. Paradis gave preferential treatment to Mr. Jaffer in that he treated him more favourably than he might have treated others in similar circumstances," Dawson wrote in her report.
‘Pierre Poutine’ recorded message supporting Liberal candidate in Guelphhttp://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Pierre+Poutine+recorded+message+suppor...
Separately, Elections Canada’s chief electoral officer, Marc Mayrand, is now scheduled to appear before MPs on March 29 to offer more details on widespread complaints he’s received about misleading or fake calls made to voters during the last election – calls that go far beyond Guelph...March 29 is also budget day in Ottawa, which means most of the Parliamentary Press Gallery will instead be in a lockup digesting Finance Minister Jim Flaherty’s fiscal plan.
Harper is diabolical and as Mulcair has said many times, we are going to be very smart and work very hard to take him down.
Whomever leads the NDP should demand that Maynard appear before the House by the 27th at the latest. If there is any chance of derailing Harper's destructive budget, it should be leveraged a.s.a.p.
There is no such chance at all.
It's looking more and more like a more organized effort .....and all it will take is some proof of linkage to the national campaign to really stamp the covert operation seal of approval on it.
This is just EC looking at the Guelph mess what of the other 77 ridings? This is just going to be the tip of the iceberg...I'm wondering now if this is a Poutine operation where all the culprits used the same name even tho they are differant individuals across the country or will there be a whole mess of fictional characters across 77 ridings ....
I guess tho as the CBC pointed out in there 31 riding expose the formula seems to be the same ...and then they can now look at how the Guelph riding worked as a pattern for the rest also....running out of popcorn..can't wait for Monday either and to see a new leader for the NDP!
‘Pierre Poutine' recorded message supporting Liberal candidate in Guelph
Lots of detal from the latest court document filed.
So EC has the recorded scripts, including one deleted by the perp that was to go out to Liberal supporters in the middle of the night, with call display of the Liberal HQ.
Two details I foind interesting.
The scripts use a voice synthesisier. Tjat and all the other covering of tracks show the perp worked hard at not being caught.
The RackNine owner says the guy first called him on his direct unlisted line, and referred to a person in the CPC giving him the number. [While most new local campaign clients come to them word of mouth through the 'front door'.]
I would say that body has a well established concern in not suffering legal consequences for this, he had contacts in the national campaign, and not giving those to EC will make life difficult for him [not to mention they will get the information without his help anyway].