babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.
IF coalition happens, who replaces Harper as leader of Conservatives?
Heh heh heh... didnt think any of us would be seeing a thread like this just mere weeks after the last election. Watching him on Question Period today looking like he ate a poop sandwich for lunch= priceless.
Let them rip themselves to shreds with the righties and the ultra-far-righties in a battle to the political death.What has happened in the last few days might be a watershed in politics in this country that many of us will savour for years.
This blunder is on Harper, period.Flaherty cant take a leak without asking the Boss first.
New leader? Oh well, Harper has got rid of anyone with any brains in that party.Best of luck to them....just kidding!
Well, she probably HAS shot at Canada from her house.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
Our Demands Most Moderate are/
We Only Want The World!
-James Connolly
What about Rob Anders? He represents the views of many Conservatives, but unlike many of them, is not afraid to speak his mind. He has won decisively in several elections now in Calgary Northwest, or whatever the riding is called. Maybe we should start a letter-writing campaign and encourage him to run. What do you think? We could even have fun with a website...
CONFIRMED: Two Prominent Elected Conservatives to Urge Prime Minister to Step Down if Coalition Government Accepted by GG
Ottawa-
It has been confirmed by Draft John Baird that two prominent elected
Conservatives will be calling on Stephen Harper to resign, if the
government is defeated on December 8th, 2008.
The Members of Parliament are from the provinces of British Columbia and Quebec.
-30-
Brian Topp: Our friends on the blue team seem to mostly focus on sticks, and not so much on carrots. ;)
The Globe endorsed continued Conservative government, but not under Harper, of course, like Globe editorial comments, none of the actual text really speaks to that, but it is in the title.
I think the judgment of the party (people don't step down, they are forced) will determine their actions. It all depends on whether they think the coalition will:
1. Fail and break apart soon, bringing an election and probably a Conservative majority
2. Hold together and win the next election
If you believe 1 is true, it makes sense to stick with Harper. If you believe 2 is true, it makes sense to push for new leadership. Harper gives a speech saying "the opposition has said this is about my personality. If that is the case, I resign for the good of the nation. God Bless Canada.*"
Putting in Prentice and recanting on the mini-update could prove fatal to the coalition. It would be championed by the media (the press loves a big story, and they also love moderate conservatives).
Given that the resources and organization of the party have been directed at "save Canadian democracy" I think it is unlikely they will install Prentice. That argument is aimed not at changing the governor-general's mind, but at undermining the coalition once it takes power, and giving it the kind of polls (and unpopularity) that will make it unworkable. I think attacking the coalition on its substance (eg. "in the pocket of separatists") is the more effective line for the Tories, but I'm not a Tory staffer or anything.
Dammit I need some polls (I saw the CROP one - can't see the damn Ipsos one).
*Or more likely "well, you've had a lot of fun, ladies and gentleman, but you're not going to have Stephen Harper to kick around any more."
Boom Boom - Here is a quote from that editor. He is trying to explain why the GnM opined that the Coalition is "politically illegitamate".
"The Liberals are not a government in waiting, they are a trainwreck.
Even if Mr. Dion becomes prime minister, he's only going to be there
for a few months. And to accomplish that, he has had to enter a pact
with union-beholden social democrats and separatists. Mr. Dion lacks
the moral authority to form a government."
Note that he uses the Harper talking points yet changes "socialists" to "union-beholden social democrats". I wonder how he voted?
If I follow this, I end up at a poll that was conducted over two months ago while the election campaign was still going. To say the least, I think it fair to assume that the numbers might be different today, no?
Boom Boom - Here is a quote from that editor. He is trying to explain why the GnM opined that the Coalition is "politically illegitamate".
Oops - I missed that, because I was focused on this:
"Mr. Harper is ultimately responsible for this unhappy state of affairs. It is the byproduct of his machinations, and the product of a failure of his leadership. "The opposition parties, especially with the Liberals busy licking their election wounds, were not out to pick a fight in the new Parliament. "Mr. Harper gave them one anyway, turning his government's economic update into a partisan document aimed less at strengthening Canada's economic position than at undermining their ability to compete in the next election. "In so doing, he sent the message that even if he backs down in this instance, he has no interest in making the current Parliament work. "His conduct since then — epitomized by his blustery and provocative statement last Friday, and his party's disturbing act in eavesdropping on a private NDP conference call this past weekend — has only reinforced for the opposition the necessity of defeating him while it has the opportunity. "If Mr. Harper wishes to act in the best interests of the country, it may be time for him to consider removing that imperative from the table."
Well, she probably HAS shot at Canada from her house.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________ Our Demands Most Moderate are/ We Only Want The World! -James Connolly
Jim Prentice. Marrying economic formula (not neo-con) and environmental program.
Sure as hell hope the coalition can focus on that pair of monsters while saving democracy on the Hill.
Actually, the source on his homosexuality is common knowledge in the Ottawa gay community.
From the Draft John Bear site: link
Brian Topp: Our friends on the blue team seem to mostly focus on sticks, and not so much on carrots. ;)
Out of the chaos, only two long-range results I'd put any money on:
1) Prentice gets it and gets John Tory'd by still-ravening tin foil hats;
2) Harper pulls a Nixon/WLMK and never, ever, ever goes away.
Or, I guess, 3) Both.
I'll be placing my money later this week.
The Globe endorsed continued Conservative government, but not under Harper, of course, like Globe editorial comments, none of the actual text really speaks to that, but it is in the title.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081201.weCoalition02/BNStory/Front
I think the judgment of the party (people don't step down, they are forced) will determine their actions. It all depends on whether they think the coalition will:
1. Fail and break apart soon, bringing an election and probably a Conservative majority
2. Hold together and win the next election
If you believe 1 is true, it makes sense to stick with Harper. If you believe 2 is true, it makes sense to push for new leadership. Harper gives a speech saying "the opposition has said this is about my personality. If that is the case, I resign for the good of the nation. God Bless Canada.*"
Putting in Prentice and recanting on the mini-update could prove fatal to the coalition. It would be championed by the media (the press loves a big story, and they also love moderate conservatives).
Given that the resources and organization of the party have been directed at "save Canadian democracy" I think it is unlikely they will install Prentice. That argument is aimed not at changing the governor-general's mind, but at undermining the coalition once it takes power, and giving it the kind of polls (and unpopularity) that will make it unworkable. I think attacking the coalition on its substance (eg. "in the pocket of separatists") is the more effective line for the Tories, but I'm not a Tory staffer or anything.
Dammit I need some polls (I saw the CROP one - can't see the damn Ipsos one).*Or more likely "well, you've had a lot of fun, ladies and gentleman, but you're not going to have Stephen Harper to kick around any more."
For the record, here is the google search that brings up the poll. I can't read the contents though - their site doesn't seem to work.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ipsos+reid+poll+Canada+coalition&btnG=Search
Has anyone reported this yet?
Globe editorial board editor on why Harper should resign
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081202.wlivegeigerharper1202/BNStory/specialComment/?page=rss&id=RTGAM.20081202.wlivegeigerharper1202
Boom Boom - Here is a quote from that editor. He is trying to explain why the GnM opined that the Coalition is "politically illegitamate".
"The Liberals are not a government in waiting, they are a trainwreck. Even if Mr. Dion becomes prime minister, he's only going to be there for a few months. And to accomplish that, he has had to enter a pact with union-beholden social democrats and separatists. Mr. Dion lacks the moral authority to form a government."
Note that he uses the Harper talking points yet changes "socialists" to "union-beholden social democrats". I wonder how he voted?
If I follow this, I end up at a poll that was conducted over two months ago while the election campaign was still going. To say the least, I think it fair to assume that the numbers might be different today, no?
Sorry if this has already been pointed out.
Oops - I missed that, because I was focused on this:
"Mr. Harper is ultimately responsible for this unhappy state of affairs. It is the byproduct of his machinations, and the product of a failure of his leadership. "The opposition parties, especially with the Liberals busy licking their election wounds, were not out to pick a fight in the new Parliament. "Mr. Harper gave them one anyway, turning his government's economic update into a partisan document aimed less at strengthening Canada's economic position than at undermining their ability to compete in the next election. "In so doing, he sent the message that even if he backs down in this instance, he has no interest in making the current Parliament work. "His conduct since then — epitomized by his blustery and provocative statement last Friday, and his party's disturbing act in eavesdropping on a private NDP conference call this past weekend — has only reinforced for the opposition the necessity of defeating him while it has the opportunity. "If Mr. Harper wishes to act in the best interests of the country, it may be time for him to consider removing that imperative from the table."