Iggy vs Rae

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aka Mycroft
Iggy vs Rae

It's clear that the Liberal leadership race will be all but a two person affair between Ignatieff and Rae with Dominic LeBlanc there only to raise his profile for the future.

My prediction at this point is it will be Iggy on the first ballot as most of the senior people who backed Dion, Kennedy or Dryden last time seem to have lined up at Iggy's alter and no one of note appears to have come over to Rae.

remind remind's picture

well, why do they not just crown him and get it out of the way without the expense? As they obviously put their boots to the throats of Hall-Finley and Kennedy.

 Interestly that this occured, as Angus Reid did a poll last week asking who one thought should be the next Liberal leader. I put Scott Brison.

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"watching the tide roll away"

Benoit

remind wrote:
why do they not just crown him and get it out of the way without the expense?

Because the grandfather of Michael was not the Tsar of Russia, only his minister of education.

remind remind's picture

TFF, but your point would be what?

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"watching the tide roll away"

Benoit

Hello! A democracy is not a monarchy.

remind remind's picture

Well my point would be that the Liberals think they are the natural governing party and they undemocratically forced other leadership contenders out, and no one is aligning behind Rae, so why go to all the expense. You apparently took my words literally though.

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"watching the tide roll away"

janfromthebruce

I have noted the cognitive dissonance of some liberal bloggers as they move to the right - oh more rightly change their perception of Iggy (as not a right-winger to a progressive) therefore being able to say, yeap, libs are progressive - it's fasinating.

A similar transformation happened, since the election of being avid environmentalists (go green, vote red) to elliminating the logo, not talking about the environment or little, and moving to economic. It appears they were mainly "fair weather friends of the environment".

It will be fasinating to watch the remaking of Iggy as a progressive so he too can fight on the left but we know he will rule on the right if in power. He can run but can not hide from his voting, writing record. Smile

[thread drift] I miss the old smiley's in our other babble particularly "roll eyes" [end of thread drift].

janfromthebruce

I want to try something here - testing 1,2,3

Doug

Stabbed vs Shot.

Benoit

remind wrote:

Well my point would be that the Liberals think they are the natural governing party and they undemocratically forced other leadership contenders out, and no one is aligning behind Rae, so why go to all the expense. You apparently took my words literally though.

 

A leadership convention is useful in the sense that a democracy needs to fill the public space with political messages so that misinterpretations and prejudices like yours can die.

remind remind's picture

Sealed

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"watching the tide roll away"

Benoit

Action!

josh

Iggy should win easily.  Probably on the first ballot.

 

Where does LeBlanc fall on the Liberal spectrum, to the extent there is one?

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

Iggy makes my skin crawl, for some (probably very good) reason, whereas Bob is just a pompous ass.

Stockholm

I hope the Liberals pick as rightwing a leader as possible. The only way that the Tories will ever be dislodged is if the Liberals find a way to win back the votes of centre-right Liberal/Tory switchers that the NDP cannot access.

Lord Palmerston

Iggy is better for the NDP, I think.  There are way more Lib/NDP swing voters who respect Rae than Iggy.

cdnviking

I hope that the Liberals allow "one member, one vote" to be put in place, something they refused at the last convention. The Liberals are the only major party that still uses delegates. Many party members feel as though they don't matter and the elitists will always control things through the delegate system (probably true). Going to one member, one vote, would certainly re-enage the membership and could even draw back some ex-Libs who quit over the elitist image. Now all that has to happen is for both Iggy and Uncle Bob to lose and some new blood, capable of engaging the electorate and not representing the elitist elements of the party should win. I am a member of the LPC, so this isn't bashing from without, it is constructive criticism from within.

ottawaobserver

josh wrote:

Where does LeBlanc fall on the Liberal spectrum, to the extent there is one?

He's squarely on the side of winning.  In other words, right in the Liberal mainstream.  He knows the carbon tax hurt them in Atlantic Canada, though.  But the guy was born into the Liberal Party, so it's less about ideology for him, I think.

janfromthebruce

ottawaobserver wrote:
josh wrote:

Where does LeBlanc fall on the Liberal spectrum, to the extent there is one?

He's squarely on the side of winning.  In other words, right in the Liberal mainstream.  He knows the carbon tax hurt them in Atlantic Canada, though.  But the guy was born into the Liberal Party, so it's less about ideology for him, I think.

 You mean Liberal Party ideology bred in the bone as opposed to nutured from birth? Wink

kids live and play together, let's let them learn together too!

Stockholm

The Liberals will have a delegated convention. They narrowly voted down a proposal to move to OMOV at their last convention.

Benoit

Ignatieff seems to me to be interested more by international problems than by local problems. For Canadians, it seems to me, it is the converse: they are mostly interested by local matters.

Bookish Agrarian

Am I the only one who desperately hopes this doesn't turn into a grudge mud wrestling match at some point?

Seeing Mercer and Rae's asses come at me from my tv screen was bad enough.

Benoit

I think we can count on a kind of Obama effect to temporarily put political contests out of reach of dirty tactics.

ecopinko

Benoit wrote:
I think we can count on a kind of Obama effect to temporarily put political contests out of reach of dirty tactics.

If only. We shall have to see.

Generally, though, as a former-NDPer (full disclosure!), I really really want Rae to win. Not because I like him. At all. But because it will forever diassociate him from the NDP. Cut off the Rae albatross, says I.

Benoit

- We can also expect it because politicians nowadays are mentioning Obama like if they were promising to copy him. 

 

- I think you have some explaining to do by not always and systematically wishing for the best candidates to win positions.

Captain Obvious

Stockholm wrote:
I hope the Liberals pick as rightwing a leader as possible. The only way that the Tories will ever be dislodged is if the Liberals find a way to win back the votes of centre-right Liberal/Tory switchers that the NDP cannot access.

Got that right. The Liberals winning back the centre-right of the 905 and Southern Ontario generally has a huge impact on both provincial and federal politics. I loathe Ignatieff, but there are still many in Ontario who will never vote for Rae, and they'll go Right, not Left.

Rae's only hope: either outstanding Foreign Affairs Minister, or Finance Minister presiding over balanced budgets. That and having his picture taken with Obama. *wink*

cdnviking

I know Stockholm. I am just saying that this is both a leadership and policy convention and OMOV should be on the ballot again. Delegates should wake up and come into the 21st century, like other parties.

janfromthebruce

cdnviking wrote:
I know Stockholm. I am just saying that this is both a leadership and policy convention and OMOV should be on the ballot again. Delegates should wake up and come into the 21st century, like other parties.

 Well that is a liberal party problem and will be solved by the members of the liberal party. Perhaps the party executive and movers and shakers don't want membership empowerment and thus are preventing that motion from coming to the convention floor. In whose interests does that serve and why? Follow power, money, and influence. 

Of course, one could say some of the same things with other parties too, when they prevent riding resolutions from making it to the convention floor.

Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!

Benoit

Captain Obvious wrote:

Stockholm wrote:
I hope the Liberals pick as rightwing a leader as possible. The only way that the Tories will ever be dislodged is if the Liberals find a way to win back the votes of centre-right Liberal/Tory switchers that the NDP cannot access.

Got that right. The Liberals winning back the centre-right of the 905 and Southern Ontario generally has a huge impact on both provincial and federal politics. I loathe Ignatieff, but there are still many in Ontario who will never vote for Rae, and they'll go Right, not Left.

I think any politician can radically convert the righteous into Leftists if only s/he speaks the truth about Alberta’s natural resources causing short-term and long-term disequilibrium.

Wilf Day

The mood for change is generational:

Quote:
To balance the Obama effect, in the past four weeks, two countries in the so-called Anglo-sphere, Canada and New Zealand, have quietly elected equally youthful but conservative leaders. Canada has just re-elected Stephen Harper, 49, with an increased vote. And Britain faces an election by 2010, in which the 42-year-old Tory leader David Cameron is competitive. John Key, at 47, was born within five days of Obama in August 1961. And while they hail from different sides of politics and the world, the two men share the adaptable middle-child sensibility of the generation caught between the baby boomers and generation X. Claimed by both demographics, they are sometimes called the "cuspers" or the "Jones generation", too young to have experienced 1967's Summer of Love but old enough to witness the boomers trashing the moral certainties of their forebears. They were too wise to share the "slacker" mentality of the gen Xers but understood the disillusionment that drove it. They are more aware than their boomer predecessors of the growing importance of authenticity of character over laundry-list ideology. Their cunning pragmatism makes them the agents of change.

Canada's Liberals seem to have a problem.

cdnviking wrote:
I hope that the Liberals allow "one member, one vote" to be put in place, something they refused at the last convention.

In effect, they do. The delegates are bound to vote on the first ballot for the candidates whose slate they were elected on. The membership vote at the Delegate Election Meetings is a proportional vote: if Rae gets 55% of the vote at the meeting, he gets 55% of that riding's delegates. If one of the two main candidates gets over 50% of the delegates, the others might as well concede and save the travel costs of those thousands of delegates.

Note: if proportional voting is good enough for the Liberal Party, why not for Canada?

  

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I've seen Dominic LeBlanc on Newman's show a few times, and he has a really awkward smile, almost as bad as Iggy's sometimes, as if he's forcing himself to smile in a bad situation. If these three (with Rae) are the future of the Liberal party, then that party is doomed. I would have  liked to see Martha Hall Findlay and Martin Cauchon on the ticket, myself.

Benoit

Because I think Canadians like to compare generations, I guess the smiley Justin Trudeau will at some point run the Liberal party.

aka Mycroft

So who has Bob Rae hurt the most this weekend with the whole flameup around the "town hall" debate. Himself? The Liberal Party? Ignatieff? All three?

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

The Liberal Party, for sure, and maybe Iggy.

Benoit

It is better I think to ask ourselves who in between Iggy and Rae can incorporate the other as the subset of a set than it is to ask who can hurt the other.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

prediction: Liberal infighting, among other reasons, will keep Harper in power - although with continued minorities - far into the future.

remind remind's picture

Quote:
Mr. Rae succeeded in putting front-runner Michael Ignatieff on the defensive. In
a populist and "inclusive" age, no one wants to be seen to be engaged in, much
less defending, meetings "behind closed doors."

More important, having been accused of running a
"peek-a-boo campaign," it will now be difficult for Mr. Ignatieff to reject the
weekly debates that Mr. Rae is proposing. In making this proposal, the Rae camp
astutely referred to the Obama-Clinton debates that saw the president-elect beat
the odds over front-runner Hillary Clinton. For a candidate like Mr. Ignatieff
who was hoping to style himself as an Obama-like agent of change in Canada, that
had to hurt.

Bob Rae is still
the prohibitive long-shot in the race. However, no one in Canadian politics
today can match him in a one-on-one debate. He and his advisers are betting that
the more they can get Michael Ignatieff into the ring, the greater the
likelihood of an unforced error by the front-runner.

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"watching the tide roll away"

janfromthebruce

And as the Cats fight the mice sneak off with the cheese - more and more the Layton New Democrats look like the real alternative - focusing on getting things done for Canadians. 

Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!

remind remind's picture

What I want to know is, why does NSpector believe that there is no one in Canadian politics that can match Rae on a one to one debate?

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"watching the tide roll away"

thorin_bane

Becasue regardless of what a shitbag he is, he does speak very well and is quite knowlegable. I also have to agree that even Jack would be hard pressed in a one on one debate with Rae

HeywoodFloyd

Iggy vs Rae....

 That feels like the eternal conundrum. Would I prefer to be hit in the face with a sock full of rocks or a sock full of poo?

 (Leblanc is the equivalent of being hit in the face with an empty sock)

 

Benoit

Boom Boom wrote:
prediction: Liberal infighting, among other reasons, will keep Harper in power - although with continued minorities - far into the future.

More boum boum will not bring peace anyway.

 

remind remind's picture

thorin_bane wrote:
Becasue regardless of what a shitbag he is, he does speak very well and is quite knowlegable. I also have to agree that even Jack would be hard pressed in a one on one debate with Rae

Really, I had not thought him that good of a speaker, or knowlegable, but perhaps it is my distance from the centre of the universe.

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"watching the tide roll away"

Benoit

Get to know more about Rae. For example that he was awarded a Rhodes scholarship…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Rae

remind remind's picture

Knew he was a Rhodes scholar, but uh, don't care and don't think it means much n way of knowing.

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"watching the tide roll away"

Benoit

If you don’t care and if you think it doesn’t mean much then how come you know it?