Jagmeet Singh, NDP Leader

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Rev Pesky

From Pondering:

This issue is going to go away because it is not driven by Canadians it is driven by pundits.

Do you think the families of those who died in the Air India bombing have forgotten?

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Where is the thread 'Singh and the NDP are done Like Dinner,Who's Going To Benefit From It?'

The Liberals have a communication error in India trip,the majority of people were gleefully celebrating that the Liberal party is dead and Trudeau is finished.

Now Singh is guilty of the same thing,but even worse,he's admitted he's a Sikh Seperatist and was involved with people who may or may not be terrorists.

So if the Liberals are finished because of what happened in India,why wouldn't that apply to Singh and the NDP?

Now everyone has an excuse for him,some believe this will BENEFIT him. Make up your mind. A leader and a Party is on its death bed because of some Indian shit or they are not.

Also,Trudeau wants a united India,Singh wants to seperate. Who's the moderate? Who's actually digging themselves out of the Indian disaster? Well,it isn't Singh.

People here seem to have a double standard. Another party does something,they are attacked and declared 'done like dinner' and now that the same thing has happened to the Orange team (and did so much more blatantly) everyone has an excuse,the whole thing is downplayed and instead of being 'done like dinner' , this will actually help the NDP.

Ha ha Charade You Are.

If the first place party is finished,the third place party (who can hardly surpass 20% in the polls) is what? If the Indian issue costs the Liberals a few points,what happens to the NDP? They can't afford to lose a couple of points.

Admit it. Singh fucked up big time. There was no problem echoing the right wing tabloids that Trudeau fucked up big time. What makes this any different? I'm sure someone can explain the pretzel logic at play here.

josh

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Debater wrote:

NDP brain trust was unprepared to manage Sikh independence controversy

A minimum amount of due diligence in the aftermath of the CBC interview with Singh would likely have unearthed the time bombs that exploded in the party’s face this week

Chantal Hébert

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/2018/03/16/ndp-brain-trust-was-unprepared-to-manage-sikh-independence-controversy.html

Singh is not a bad person -- these issues were both predictable and unnecessary and a result of poor communications management. Hebert is correct to blame the party communications for this rather than just him personally

It was the Party “brain trust”that pushed for him.  So it’s not surprising that they hoped it would not be a big deal.

WWWTT

NDPP wrote:

Chrystia Freeland is also 'up to [her] neck in the ethno-nationalist politics of another country.' If Singh has to renounce Kalistan, Freeland should renounce Bandera fascism in Ukraine.

Ya actually it's a LOT more deeper than that! 

If Jag has to renounce Kalistan, then ALL European leaders in Canada have to renounce crimes of colonialism committed by ALL European and European descent countries!

But that's not how European standards work. One high standard for non western nations/peoples, much lower standard for western nations/peoples. Hypocricy never ends when it comes to the west!

WWWTT

Rev Pesky wrote:

From WWWTT:

@Rev Pesky

I don’t like the word “terrorist” because its a word that’s used hypocritically.

Fine. Tell me what word you would use to describe the bombing of Air India which killed 329 people. What word would you use to describe the severe beating (to the point of leaving him in a wheelchair), and later murder of Tara Hayer.

And let's not forget Ujjal Dosanjh, severely  beaten and threatened for holding views some Sikhs didn't like.

I'm willing to accept pretty much any word you want, except 'it's not really a big deal'.

I would use the same words that I would use to describe sending Canadian troops to Afghanistan or using CF-18's to drop bombs in Libya Iraq Syria etc.

It's called "not using a double standard to label people/groups/nations in an attempt to demonize them, while at the same time, glorifying the same use of violence when perpetuaded by the west!"

R.E.Wood

alan smithee wrote:

Where is the thread 'Singh and the NDP are done Like Dinner,Who's Going To Benefit From It?'

The Liberals have a communication error in India trip,the majority of people were gleefully celebrating that the Liberal party is dead and Trudeau is finished.

Now Singh is guilty of the same thing,but even worse,he's admitted he's a Sikh Seperatist and was involved with people who may or may not be terrorists.

So if the Liberals are finished because of what happened in India,why wouldn't that apply to Singh and the NDP?

Now everyone has an excuse for him,some believe this will BENEFIT him. Make up your mind. A leader and a Party is on its death bed because of some Indian shit or they are not.

Also,Trudeau wants a united India,Singh wants to seperate. Who's the moderate? Who's actually digging themselves out of the Indian disaster? Well,it isn't Singh.

People here seem to have a double standard. Another party does something,they are attacked and declared 'done like dinner' and now that the same thing has happened to the Orange team (and did so much more blatantly) everyone has an excuse,the whole thing is downplayed and instead of being 'done like dinner' , this will actually help the NDP.

Ha ha Charade You Are.

If the first place party is finished,the third place party (who can hardly surpass 20% in the polls) is what? If the Indian issue costs the Liberals a few points,what happens to the NDP? They can't afford to lose a couple of points.

Admit it. Singh fucked up big time. There was no problem echoing the right wing tabloids that Trudeau fucked up big time. What makes this any different? I'm sure someone can explain the pretzel logic at play here.

I agree with you completely. To be fair, there are several people posting here who seem to agree as well - not everyone is burying their heads in the sand about this issue, or bizarrely claiming it will somehow help Singh and the NDP (which it will not).

Mighty Middle

Jack Layton former Press Secretary Ian Capstick has written in a series of tweets

Indian politics/Sikh independence is more complicated and entrenched in history than our politics. It’s incumbent on all of us to think about the intercultural implications, provide full explanations of the history and present day context. Media aren’t doing this.

Instead, I’m seeing hastily written paragraphs on Operation Blue Star based on shitty Wikipedia articles. Rarely is balance presented. Sikh voices silenced, ignored and then the entire community called extreme. Many Sikhs believe a genocide was perpetrated in India 1984.

@theJagmeetSingh has never hidden, nor obfuscated his position on this. He has, however, taken the high road ... and he might want to consider mixing it up a little more. A nice rough and tumble interview with @CBCTerry would do it. An off-set sit down.

Calm cool and collected, without the pressure of live TV pressing them into sharp/short questions or answers. This needs a serious 20-30 min of thoughtful air time. We could all learn something about Sikhism, Terry’s connection to the story and ultimately learn about ourselves.

But instead the likelihood is Ottawa’s media, politicos and politicians will continue to throw mud and scream. After the disaster trip to India: maybe we all ought to step back and realize we don’t know as much about India as we think we do. #cdnpoli

The coverage is fuelling racist sentiment. This anti-Sikh racism has been alive in Canada since before we were a country. The Reform party used turbans in the RCMP as a racist wedge issue in 1989. Yet: Sikh-Canadians prevail.

https://twitter.com/iancapstick/status/974250425053573120

Sean in Ottawa

WWWTT wrote:

NDPP wrote:

Chrystia Freeland is also 'up to [her] neck in the ethno-nationalist politics of another country.' If Singh has to renounce Kalistan, Freeland should renounce Bandera fascism in Ukraine.

Ya actually it's a LOT more deeper than that! 

If Jag has to renounce Kalistan, then ALL European leaders in Canada have to renounce crimes of colonialism committed by ALL European and European descent countries!

But that's not how European standards work. One high standard for non western nations/peoples, much lower standard for western nations/peoples. Hypocricy never ends when it comes to the west!

This is part of the tactic to smear everyone who is criticizing this as racist.

Also he is not asked to renounce it. What he has to make clear is that he would not use his position, without the  support of his party, at least, to advocate, support or engage with it during his time as leader.

Any political leader with history related to connections with those with conflicts in other countries, if asked, needs to tell Canadians that they will not use their position to advocate for those things against the will of their country and party.

Singh can call for position changes if he wants in his party by resolution -- just like any other member can. However, he has to not use his position to advocate publicly for this without asking for the backing of his membership. This is based on the idea that we do not run dictatorships in Canada and leaders do not on their own make policy decisions of this kind (advocating the interuption of the territorial integrity of another country).

This is a big deal. Canada was a signatory to the Helsinki Final Act. This held up the emerging princiople in international law that states will not promote violations of the territorial integrity of states and the principle of non-intervention. This is frequently violated to be sure, but it is not insignificant and it is effectively a hostile act among nations. Individuals, respecting free speech can take this position. Governments do, having considered their internal politcs and presumably with the needed support. It is a challenging road to go down in a democracy without respect for that process. The fact that others do this is not an excuse for the NDP leader to do it. He also at only about 1/5 of public support simply cannot afford to.

Now of course he can do otherwise and lead his party to a resounding and unnecessary defeat.

As a Canadian he can work within his party's system getting a mandate, he can be an independent politician, he can as an individual  represent any view he likes short of incenting violence. He will pay a heavy price, along with his party, if he thinks that he can use his position as leader to advocate for the breakup of an other country Canada wants decent relations where the majority of Canadians are not in agreement with that position and he has not sought out the support of his party to do this.

It shows terrible judgement if he thinks this will not be a political issue and a disregard for the position he holds.

He is asking for the massacre to be considered a genocide and on this he is going through his party, I understand. He needs to make clear that anything with respect to Sihk politics will follow and that unless otherwise mandated by his party he will teke a position in favour of Indian territorial integrity.

Canadians will expect as well that he consider that this is a conflict that has already brought the greatest attack on Canada in history. Getting invovled in any way at all is something Canadians will be wary about.

 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

R.E.Wood wrote:

 

 

I agree with you completely. To be fair, there are several people posting here who seem to agree as well - not everyone is burying their heads in the sand about this issue, or bizarrely claiming it will somehow help Singh and the NDP (which it will not).

This is the type of comments I'm talking about.

From Pondering ;

I don't sense any outrage at all from Canadians. Not from Hindus even. All I hear are pundits belabouring the point. They want to get away from the inequality debate and they decided this is the best way to do it. Rabble shouldn't be helping them.

From WWWTT ;

Does it really matter? Wouldn't make any difference who won, guaranteed something like this would have come up for the other candidates had they won. That's how the liberal corporate media works. Dig up dirt and turn nothing into a huge thing!

FRom Mighty Middle ;

Meanwhile today Jagmeet Singh joined striking workers on the picket line at York University. To tell them he is on their side. So he has moved on and has put the Sikh separatism issue behind him.

FRom WWWTT ;

I don't understand this Punjab state issue, and never will fully understand it. But I don't think that it's going to hurt Jag in the same way as Justin for the simple fact that he can divert away from it at still an early stage. In fact, I believe he can use his Indian heritage as a bridge building/strengthening ties to other former colonial nations if he plays his cards right!

FRom WWWTT ;

I think Jag is going to come out of this further ahead. First off, free advertising. Secondly he’s a Sikh, his opinion fucking counts! Justin is a rich privileged white person working as corporate media circus freek side show.

 

Excuses and downplaying and believing this will somehow HELP and not HURT the NDP.

So what was the big controversy surrounding Trudeau and his wife again that has made the Liberals done like dinner?

It's all a bunch of partisan hackery at its worst.

WWWTT

FRom WWWTT ;

I think Jag is going to come out of this further ahead. First off, free advertising. Secondly he’s a Sikh, his opinion fucking counts! Justin is a rich privileged white person working as corporate media circus freek side show.

 

Excuses and downplaying and believing this will somehow HELP and not HURT the NDP.

So what was the big controversy surrounding Trudeau and his wife again that has made the Liberals done like dinner?

It's all a bunch of partisan hackery at its worst.

You could be right Alan Smithee?

Jag is Sikh and Indian Heritage, Justin is not.

WWWTT

This is part of the tactic to smear everyone who is criticizing this as racist.

Also he is not asked to renounce it. What he has to make clear is that he would not use his position, without the  support of his party, at least, to advocate, support or engage with it during his time as leader.

Really Sean in Ottawa????

As far as I knew, Justin allowed military operations in Iraq/Syria. He also has been verbally supportive of the US aggresive actions against smaller countries. Allowed Canadian forces to aggresivelly participate in war games. Not to mention forwarding sanctions against countries destroying ties!

So where's Justin's explanation?

So in other words Europeans don't need to go through the same test as non Europeans.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

WWWTT wrote:

FRom WWWTT ;

I think Jag is going to come out of this further ahead. First off, free advertising. Secondly he’s a Sikh, his opinion fucking counts! Justin is a rich privileged white person working as corporate media circus freek side show.

 

Excuses and downplaying and believing this will somehow HELP and not HURT the NDP.

So what was the big controversy surrounding Trudeau and his wife again that has made the Liberals done like dinner?

It's all a bunch of partisan hackery at its worst.

You could be right Alan Smithee?

Jag is Sikh and Indian Heritage, Justin is not.

Oh,I see....Singh can be a Seperatist and surround himself with possible terrorists but Justin can't wear Indian dress and have a pictre taken with the wrong person because he's white and Singh is Indian..Got it. It's all about race. The last refuge for an arguement without providing any real answers.

WWWTT

LOL ya basically that's it. When you're a white person growing up in privelege I don't think you really understand what it's like to come from a place where there's violence against you because of your religion and peoples and your life is in danger. That's probably part of why Jag's family came to Canada in the first place.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

WWWTT wrote:

LOL ya basically that's it. When you're a white person growing up in privelege I don't think you really understand what it's like to come from a place where there's violence against you because of your religion and peoples and your life is in danger. That's probably part of why Jag's family came to Canada in the first place.

Let's talk about 'privilege' Singh's net worth is an estimated $4 000 000. I doubt he was raised in squalor,I'm sure his family are also millionaires. Just because you flee a country for the reasons you listed,does not mean that Jag is not a product of 'privilege'

Economic privilege is not exclusive to whites. This isn't 1910.

voice of the damned

WWWTT:

Justin allowed military operations in Iraq/Syria. He also has been verbally supportive of the US aggresive actions against smaller countries. Allowed Canadian forces to aggresivelly participate in war games. Not to mention forwarding sanctions against countries destroying ties!

I think that's an apples/oranges comparison. Both Trudeau and Singh are wrong, imo, but for different reasons. 

For the most part, Trudeau campaigned on a platform of continuing the standing foreign-policy, and won a majority by doing so. By contrast, Singh, in advocating for a Sikh homeland, is basically free-lancing, as the NDP as far as I know has no policy of promoting that.

As a comparison...

CASE #1 Someone in line to become Minister Of Health advocates continuing his party's policy of loosening regulations on dubious pharmaceutical products. 

CASE #2 Someone in line to become Minister Of Health has a recent history of attending rallies where people speak in favour of getting a controversial cancer treatment covered by provincial health plans, even though his party has no position on that.

The first is analagous to Trudeau's stance, the second to Singh's. They're both problematic, but the way we deal with them is going to be different in each case. For starters, the first guy CAN claim to be giving the voters what they wanted, so he can't be attacked on those particular grounds, even though, depending on the situation, the products he supports might be doing more harm than the second guy's.     

 

 

  

brookmere

alan smithee wrote:
Let's talk about 'privilege' Singh's net worth is an estimated $4 000 000. I doubt he was raised in squalor

Singh attended a private high school in Beverly Hills, Michigan (not a joke).

Rev Pesky

From WWWTT:

I would use the same words that I would use to describe sending Canadian troops to Afghanistan or using CF-18's to drop bombs in Libya Iraq Syria etc.

It's called "not using a double standard to label people/groups/nations in an attempt to demonize them, while at the same time, glorifying the same use of violence when perpetuaded by the west!"

And if I had 'glorified' the use of violence by the West, perhaps you'd have a case. Please, if you can find such an example post it here. 

In fact, I'd say before you do more posting here, read through all of the posts I've posted in Babble, and see if you can find one instance of me praising the West for their violence.

Or if you don't have the time for that, a simple apology for implying same would be accepted.

WWWTT

There’s a huge difference between working for what you have and being born with a silver spoon in your mouth. 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

WWWTT wrote:

There’s a huge difference between working for what you have and being born with a silver spoon in your mouth. 


 

Im a betting man so I'll bet you Singh's net worth that he comes from a privileged background.

Take a look at brookmere's comment. He went to private high school in the States. Care to prove me wrong?

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
There’s a huge difference between working for what you have and being born with a silver spoon in your mouth.

Would you at least agree that whether Singh worked for what he has, or was born with a silver spoon in his mouth (market value: $14) that he certainly did not have to live through any horrors in India?

I'm not suggesting he can't support sovereignty for the Sikh minority, and I'm not even criticizing him supporting that sovereignty.  But he has no memory of being discriminated against in India any more then I remember the "dirty Irish" being spat on.

WWWTT

alan smithee wrote:

WWWTT wrote:

There’s a huge difference between working for what you have and being born with a silver spoon in your mouth. 


 

Im a betting man so I'll bet you Singh's net worth that he comes from a privileged background.

Take a look at brookmere's comment. He went to private high school in the States. Care to prove me wrong?

I'll take that bet!

https://starsunfolded.com/jagmeet-singh/

Now there could be a number of reasons why Jag got into a private high school. 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Now there could be a number of reasons why Jag got into a private high school.

Private High School$ only really have that one requirement, for the mo$t part.  But what $ay you?  What do you think that requirement i$?

Again, though, who cares?  I don't care if his parents were doctors or lawyers or whatever.  Are we really all just holding our breath for a 'sanitary engineer' to lead us all?  No problem there, if s/he actually leads us, but who the hell cares whether Singh's parents were professionals, or sorted trash for 5 rupees a day?

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

WWWTT wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

WWWTT wrote:

There’s a huge difference between working for what you have and being born with a silver spoon in your mouth. 


 

Im a betting man so I'll bet you Singh's net worth that he comes from a privileged background.

Take a look at brookmere's comment. He went to private high school in the States. Care to prove me wrong?

I'll take that bet!

https://starsunfolded.com/jagmeet-singh/

Now there could be a number of reasons why Jag got into a private high school. 

Are you kidding me?

His father is a Psychiatrist and his mother is a Banker.

If his father had a private practice (and this bio niether confirms or denies it) we're talking a good $400 000/yr

His mother is a 'banker' . What kind of banker? Again,this bio provides no in depth information. Bankers (depending on what kind of banking she's involved with) can make a shit ton of money. Anyone familiar with politicians with banking backgrounds are quite aware that they usually,more often than not, are very wealthy. Again,the bio details her work VERY vaguely.

So I'm happy you took my bet. Can't wait to collect. I hope your bank account can accomodate it.

Mighty Middle

Toronto Life Magazine reported that Jagmeet Singh has bought a house in Alexandra Park (Spadina-Fort York) where prices can range from 1 Million + all the way to 2.5 Million.

From Toronto Life below

Jagmeet has a taste for dandy luxuries that don’t comport with the monkish minimalism of his party. He wears bespoke suits  in the slim British style (at $2,000 each and he has multiple bespoke suits)—his favourite is a brown tweed with cobalt-blue stripes, designed by a tailor in New Delhi, which he often pairs with a millennial-pink turban. He owns two Rolex watches, an Oyster Perpetual Datejust and a ­Submariner (both were gifts); a crimson BMW coupe; and six designer bicycles. “I have just an absurd number of bikes,” he says. “More than one person should have.”

His kirpan, the ceremonial Sikh dagger he wears under his jacket, is a steel design by a metal­worker outside Boston. Since joining Queen’s Park in 2011, Singh has become one of the city’s most devoted partygoers, a regular at King West nightspots and gala fund­raisers, at fashion shows and ­Raptors games.

https://torontolife.com/city/life/behind-the-scenes-with-jagmeet-singh/

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Toronto Life Magazine reported that Jagmeet Singh has bought a house in Alexandra Park (Spadina-Fort York) where prices can range from 1 Million + all the way to 2.5 Million.

So, like a one-bedroom bungalow in Vancouver.

Sorry, though!  Are we supposed to be pointing out that he Enjoys Privelege?

Please, just tell us: is he a 'one percenter'???

Seriously, though.  Please, just tell us.

WWWTT

alan smithee wrote:

WWWTT wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

WWWTT wrote:

There’s a huge difference between working for what you have and being born with a silver spoon in your mouth. 


 

Im a betting man so I'll bet you Singh's net worth that he comes from a privileged background.

Take a look at brookmere's comment. He went to private high school in the States. Care to prove me wrong?

I'll take that bet!

https://starsunfolded.com/jagmeet-singh/

Now there could be a number of reasons why Jag got into a private high school. 

Are you kidding me?

His father is a Psychiatrist and his mother is a Banker.

If his father had a private practice (and this bio niether confirms or denies it) we're talking a good $400 000/yr

His mother is a 'banker' . What kind of banker? Again,this bio provides no in depth information. Bankers (depending on what kind of banking she's involved with) can make a shit ton of money. Anyone familiar with politicians with banking backgrounds are quite aware that they usually,more often than not, are very wealthy. Again,the bio details her work VERY vaguely.

So I'm happy you took my bet. Can't wait to collect. I hope your bank account can accomodate it.

Actually you lost the bet. The link shows that Jags family weren’t privileged and earned their keep. Same with Jag. It helps when your parents have good jobs of course, but they earned them!

I wonder what kind of racism Justin faced growing up?

WWWTT

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
There’s a huge difference between working for what you have and being born with a silver spoon in your mouth.

Would you at least agree that whether Singh worked for what he has, or was born with a silver spoon in his mouth (market value: $14) that he certainly did not have to live through any horrors in India?

I'm not suggesting he can't support sovereignty for the Sikh minority, and I'm not even criticizing him supporting that sovereignty.  But he has no memory of being discriminated against in India any more then I remember the "dirty Irish" being spat on.

not really sure if Jag lived through horror when he lived in India? I never raised the issue either. If u go back to comment 364 I mentioned that it was Justin that never did. But as usual, this got spun into Jagmeet being born into privilege. Or being privileged because his parents earned good jobs and helped him out. 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
not really sure if Jag lived through horror when he lived in India?

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest he didn't.

Debater

alan smithee wrote:

Let's talk about 'privilege' Singh's net worth is an estimated $4 000 000.

If that's the case, Jagmeet Singh may be wealtheir than Justin Trudeau.

Sean in Ottawa

This comparison to Trudeau is a misdirection. First, I don't care about Trudeau -- if he destroys the Liberal party I won't shed a tear. Secondly, the policies that he is following are consistent with Liberal policy. I have never supported that party and cannot speak to whether he is freelancing or doing what he has a mandate for. I am more familiar with the NDP and I know that the NDP does not have a policy of supporting interference in the territorial integrity of other countries. We are not talking about playing dressup in India -- involvement with naitonalists wanting the breakup of a country Canada desires good relations with is a different matter. The partisans here are ignoring this.

But the truly astonishing thing is that this is coming from some New Democrats who, you would think, would have some interest in Singh being successful, wanting to avoid political damage to the NDP and wanting the party to control major policies like desiring that the second most populous country, one Canada wants to have good relations with, be broken up. ---Or any fuzziness on this issue.

This Trump still deflection of go look at Trudeau is BS. If you want to debate the issues with Trudeau, I am probably going to agree with you but apply those arguments as a way to defect attention here is not a reasonable discussion tactic.

I don't disagree that Singh suffers from Racism -- not even that his mistakes will get used by racists. But that does nto mean that we should gather around deny any issues and pretend anyone unhappy is a racist.

 

Pondering

alan smithee wrote:
So what was the big controversy surrounding Trudeau and his wife again that has made the Liberals done like dinner?

It's all a bunch of partisan hackery at its worst.

I've been saying it won't impact Trudeau. The chattering classes need something to chatter about. 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

WWWTT wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

WWWTT wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

WWWTT wrote:

There’s a huge difference between working for what you have and being born with a silver spoon in your mouth. 


 

Im a betting man so I'll bet you Singh's net worth that he comes from a privileged background.

Take a look at brookmere's comment. He went to private high school in the States. Care to prove me wrong?

I'll take that bet!

https://starsunfolded.com/jagmeet-singh/

Now there could be a number of reasons why Jag got into a private high school. 

Are you kidding me?

His father is a Psychiatrist and his mother is a Banker.

If his father had a private practice (and this bio niether confirms or denies it) we're talking a good $400 000/yr

His mother is a 'banker' . What kind of banker? Again,this bio provides no in depth information. Bankers (depending on what kind of banking she's involved with) can make a shit ton of money. Anyone familiar with politicians with banking backgrounds are quite aware that they usually,more often than not, are very wealthy. Again,the bio details her work VERY vaguely.

So I'm happy you took my bet. Can't wait to collect. I hope your bank account can accomodate it.

Actually you lost the bet. The link shows that Jags family weren’t privileged and earned their keep. Same with Jag. It helps when your parents have good jobs of course, but they earned them!

I wonder what kind of racism Justin faced growing up?

Show me where in that bio that suggests that? I think you just pulled that out of your ass. His parents are wealthy,hence Singh grew up privileged. Just like Trudeau. In fact their backgrounds are almost exactly the same.

His parents are obviously well educated and have very high income careers. Racism? Gee,I never knew brown people could be wealthy. Only whites. And only whites are privileged. What a pile of bullshit. Your partisanship has your head deeply up your ass. Singh grew up privileged and this controversy will hit him and the NDP just as hard (or harder) as Trudeau and the Liberals. If you believe the Liberals are done because of Trudeau's India trip you have to believe the NDP are done because of Singh's ties with Seperatists and possible terrorists.

You've drank the kool aid and are obviously intoxicated with your support of Singh no matter what. Sort of like a Trumpist.

Give it up.

And seeing that you can't prove me wrong that Singh grew up wealthy,pony over the cash,you lost the bet.

brookmere

Mr. Magoo wrote:
Quote:
not really sure if Jag lived through horror when he lived in India?
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest he didn't.
You don't have to suggest anything, Singh was born in Canada and has never lived in India. Although he talks as though he has in one of those videos.

Pondering

Getting pretty hostile there Alan. Singh's father fell ill when Singh was in university so he did help support his family during that time.  Singh was carded 11 times.

During his time as a lawyer he offered free legal rights seminars across Ontario and provided pro bono legal counsel for people and community organizations in need. In a Toronto Star article published January 9, 2012, Singh stated that his background in criminal defence contributed to his decision to enter politics, particularly his work advocating for the protection of rights entrenched in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Singh provided pro bono consulting to an activist group that protested the visit to Canada of Kamal Nath, the Indian trade minister who had persecuted Sikhs and had allegedly led armed mobs during the 1984 Delhi pogrom.[18][19] After failing to get their views heard, Singh was inspired to run for office by the activist group so their concerns could be better represented.[18]

Singh began his political career with his decision to run for Member of Parliament in the 2011 federal election as the NDP candidate in the riding of Bramalea-Gore-Malton.[18] During the election, Singh stopped using his surname, Dhaliwal (which is connected to caste), because he wanted to signal his rejection of the inequality inherent in the Indian caste system. Instead, he chose to use Singh, which reflects the spiritual belief in an egalitarian society where all enjoy equitable access to rights and justice.[18] He was defeated by Conservative candidate Bal Gosal by 539 votes.

You know I have never held Trudeau's background against him. Actions not wealth define a person. 

Singh has a much more impressive resume of accomplishments but that isn't the deciding factor either. 

Policy is. 

NorthReport

Apart from being sure about death and taxes, you can always count on the CBC and the Toronto Star to do Liberal's dirty work for them.

Let's expose mainstream media nonsense about NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh

 

  • NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh visited Vancouver's Downtown Eastside last year with NDP health critic Don Davies to learn more about the impact of the fentanyl crisis.

 

  • NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh visited Vancouver's Downtown Eastside last year with NDP health critic Don Davies to learn more about the impact of the fentanyl crisis.TRAVIS LUPICK

This week, the national Canadian media worked itself up into a lather over NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh's previous public appearances alongside Sikh nationalists.

 

Leading the charge was the Globe and Mail.

It often writes the narrative that's subsequently adopted  by CTV and CBC. These two broadcasting behemoths reach large audiences.

At the core of their coverage is an emphasis on the 1985 Air India bombing as a made-in-Canada plot committed solely by a tiny group of Sikh extremists in British Columbia.

It's ironic that the Globe and Mail, of all media outlets, is pushing this narrative so insistently.

Two former Globe and Mail Air India bombing specialists, Zuhair Kashmeri and Robert Matas, distinguished themselves by providing far more nuanced and open-minded coverage during their many years on this beat.

Postmedia, Maclean's, CBC, and CTV only strayed from the homegrown-terrorism storyline on the very rarest of occasions.

The Globe and Mail, on the other hand, was the only mainstream national media outlet to seriously investigate whether the Indian government played any role in the creation of the extremist group Babbar Khalsa.

The organization's leader, former Burnaby resident Talwinder Singh Parmar, has been identified as the mastermind of the bombing of Air India Flight 182, and hardly anyone seriously disputes that he was deeply involved in this mass murder.

However, it's also clear from the Globe and Mail 's most recent editorial that it has abandoned its previous open-minded, balanced reportage on this issue. The previous coverage earned it considerable respect within Canada's Sikh community.

Now, its "marquee columnist", Margaret Wente, questions whether there was sufficient vetting of Jagmeet Singh before he became leader of the NDP. It's laughable.

Mainstream media outlets leave an impression that anyone who raises human-rights concerns about a vicious, despicable, and well-planned pogrom of Sikhs in Delhi in 1984 is sympathetic to Sikh nationalism and is therefore a "Khalistani" with violent tendencies.

These two issues are conflated, even though writers outside the media mainstream, such as Jagdeesh MannGurpreet Singh, and Sandy Garossino, have pointed out that the Khalistan movement has been dead for more than 20 years in India. 

That hasn't seemed to have penetrated the thick skulls of some in the national media.

Rather than doing their own research, many rely on CBC's non-Punjabi- and non-Hindi-speaking Terry Milewski, of all people, as their leading source of information on Canada's Sikh community. It's a joke.

Anyone who even hints at the possibility that the Indian government or rogue agents may have helped create Babbar Khalsa is looked upon as a lunatic by the mainstream media.

This is notwithstanding disturbing revelations about extensive Indian government spying in Canada in the 1980s, which was detailed in Soft Target: The Real Story Behind the Air India Disaster, coauthored by Kashmeri and former Toronto Star reporter Brian McAndrew.

Even the "terrorist" who kicked off the recent bout of media hysteria, Jaspal Atwal, is reportedly a supporter of the Akali Dal, which is a partner of Indian prime minister Narendra Modi's Bharatiya Janata Party.

Jaspal Atwal (left, with Liberal MPs Randeep Sarai and Sukh Dhaliwal) generated an onslaught of media coverage when he showed up on a guest list for an event in India attended by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.

Jaspal Atwal (left, with Liberal MPs Randeep Sarai and Sukh Dhaliwal) generated an onslaught of media coverage when he showed up on a guest list for an event in India attended by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.

Singh is as Canadian as anyone else

Both the Conservatives and the Liberals have an interest in painting Jagmeet Singh as "the other", a man to be feared because he's going to import foreign disputes onto Canadian soil and undermine business relations with India.

The reality is he was born and raised in Canada, experienced a bunch of racism as a kid, and probably heard a great deal about the atrocities in India in 1984, and that has informed his perspectives as a political leader.

In this regard, he's no different from Liberal cabinet ministers Harjit Sajjan (who moved to Canada when he was five years old) and Navdeep Bains.

Singh cares about human rights to a much greater degree than most white politicians who didn't encounter racism as children.

There are many millennials and older Canadians who can relate to Singh's experiences.

Like Singh, they can see the reductionism being advanced by the national media.

They know what it's like to be largely defined solely by skin colour or ethnic heritage, rather than by the multitude of personality traits, skills, and interests that make up their identity.

I have a hunch that Singh's dignified response to the media's attempt to reduce him to a simple label—Khalistani sympathizer—is going to help him over the long run.

Sooner or later, a significant segment of the voting public will see through the silly media caricatures with the help of wise commentators like Mann, Gurpreet Singh, and Garossino.

This recent controversy just might ignite more curiosity about what happened to Sikhs in India in 1984.

It might persuade some to read the work of Kashmeri and Matas and question why Kashmeri was never permitted to testify at the Air India inquiry.

They might pick up a new book by Gian Singh Sandhu, a founder of the World Sikh Organization, who describes in vivid detail how his community was smeared by the Canadian media in the 1980s.

If you want to learn more about how the Air India bombing has been covered over the years in different books, check out this article: "Long read: How the 1985 Air India bombing could tie into the 2019 federal election in Canada". It reveals that there are several narratives, not just one.

If you're curious to learn why Sikhs are fed up with the mainstream media's obsessive focus on Khalistan, I recommend Jagdeesh Mann's "Khalistan terror has died, but Khalistan targeting has not".

A progressive source of information on India is Georgia Straight contributor Gurpreet Singh, whose articles can be found here.

In particular, I recommend "Indian media censors itself under Narendra Modi" because it highlights the risks that Indian journalists face for straying from narratives preferred by the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party.

There are many perspectives out there for those with an open mind and an interest in hearing different points of view. You just have to know where to find them.

https://www.straight.com/news/1045956/lets-expose-mainstream-media-nonse...

voice of the damned

Someone quoted above wrote:

Both the Conservatives and the Liberals have an interest in painting Jagmeet Singh as "the other", a man to be feared because he's going to import foreign disputes onto Canadian soil and undermine business relations with India.

That's probably true. But then, this same writer also calls for more media attention paid to Indian government spies operating in Canada. If that line of inquiry were pursued, it would likely also be exploited by racists, to demonize India and probably Indian-born Canadians also.

 

Pondering

Thank-you NR

P.S. The good news is the mainstream media is losing it's influence because they are making themselves irrelevant. 

Pondering

Thank-you NR

P.S. The good news is the mainstream media is losing it's influence because they are making themselves irrelevant. 

JKR

Sarah Palin, Sean Hannity, and Ann Coulter like calling them the "lamestream media." They prefer media like Fox News, Breitbart, The Drudge Report, and Infowars.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Pondering wrote:

You know I have never held Trudeau's background against him. Actions not wealth define a person. 

Singh has a much more impressive resume of accomplishments but that isn't the deciding factor either. 

Policy is. 

Well I certainly agree. Policy is all that matters. There are some policies in the works now that will benefit almost everyone (National Housing Act for example)

I don't care about backgrounds either. It seems the only sustained attack on Trudeau is that he's wealthy. Newsflash to those people...ALL our Ptime Ministers from day #1 were wealthy and privileged. Attacking Trudeau because not only is he privileged but he's white and for some reason that makes it alright to kick him around. I'm not a big Liberal supporter but if the NDP can't win and become our government,I'm perfectly fine with the Liberals. The other party is truly regressive and a REAL danger to our individual freedoms,our current rights,to the marginalized,etc,etc and there is a lot more to attack when it comes to Scheer and the Conservatives. Like I've said a million times..If you think the Liberals are bad,you ain't seen nothing yet with a Conservative government.

I'd rather  get SOME policies I want passed rather than NONE. And that's the only reason I'm defending the Liberals. The NDP does not have a chance in 2019 which is an unfortunate fact. Therefore I prefer a Liberal government over a Conservative one.

As for the privilege arguement,without naming names,there are some here who believe only whites are or can be economically privileged. That was true a 100 years ago ,but it's certainly not true now. Living in Montreal (and probably much more in Vancouver) it's rich (privileged) Chinese buying up a lot of our real estate. And China is a so called 'Communist' country. So go figure.

And lastly,some times I have to call bullshit when I smell it. Everyone here ripped apart Trudeau and the |Liberals over that India trip. Now Singh is in a controversy for the same thing but more blatant.

If Canadians don't care about Singh's short comings,I'm pretty sure people will look past Trudeau's.

And that is my point.

Constantly tearing apart Trudeau over his 'privileged' life gets tiring really quick. Name me ONE PM who wasn't.

So all I'm doing is calling out bullshit.

But I'm with you. Instead of attacking people for things deemed not a big deal for Singh,why don't we talk policy. It looks like the Liberals have kept their promise about cannabis and I'm pretty sure they will follow through with a National Housing Act because even the provinces want that.

It's about policy. It's also about not always getting everything you want. That's the nature of politics. But if you can get at least some of them,be happy.

We sure as hell know that we won't get ANY policy we want under a Con government. Those who don't know that are the problem.

NorthReport
WWWTT

alan smithee wrote:

Pondering wrote:

You know I have never held Trudeau's background against him. Actions not wealth define a person. 

Singh has a much more impressive resume of accomplishments but that isn't the deciding factor either. 

Policy is. 

Well I certainly agree. Policy is all that matters. There are some policies in the works now that will benefit almost everyone (National Housing Act for example)

I don't care about backgrounds either. It seems the only sustained attack on Trudeau is that he's wealthy. Newsflash to those people...ALL our Ptime Ministers from day #1 were wealthy and privileged. Attacking Trudeau because not only is he privileged but he's white and for some reason that makes it alright to kick him around. I'm not a big Liberal supporter but if the NDP can't win and become our government,I'm perfectly fine with the Liberals. The other party is truly regressive and a REAL danger to our individual freedoms,our current rights,to the marginalized,etc,etc and there is a lot more to attack when it comes to Scheer and the Conservatives. Like I've said a million times..If you think the Liberals are bad,you ain't seen nothing yet with a Conservative government.

I'd rather  get SOME policies I want passed rather than NONE. And that's the only reason I'm defending the Liberals. The NDP does not have a chance in 2019 which is an unfortunate fact. Therefore I prefer a Liberal government over a Conservative one.

As for the privilege arguement,without naming names,there are some here who believe only whites are or can be economically privileged. That was true a 100 years ago ,but it's certainly not true now. Living in Montreal (and probably much more in Vancouver) it's rich (privileged) Chinese buying up a lot of our real estate. And China is a so called 'Communist' country. So go figure.

And lastly,some times I have to call bullshit when I smell it. Everyone here ripped apart Trudeau and the |Liberals over that India trip. Now Singh is in a controversy for the same thing but more blatant.

If Canadians don't care about Singh's short comings,I'm pretty sure people will look past Trudeau's.

And that is my point.

Constantly tearing apart Trudeau over his 'privileged' life gets tiring really quick. Name me ONE PM who wasn't.

So all I'm doing is calling out bullshit.

But I'm with you. Instead of attacking people for things deemed not a big deal for Singh,why don't we talk policy. It looks like the Liberals have kept their promise about cannabis and I'm pretty sure they will follow through with a National Housing Act because even the provinces want that.

It's about policy. It's also about not always getting everything you want. That's the nature of politics. But if you can get at least some of them,be happy.

We sure as hell know that we won't get ANY policy we want under a Con government. Those who don't know that are the problem.

ahh I see where you’re coming from. 

I stated privileged and not necessarily rich or wealthy. 

Justin got elected on his name and that alone. Perfect example of privilege. 

As far as comparable wealth between Jag and Justin, if Justin ever falls on hard times, he can use his celebrity and go on tour doing speeches making 50K a night. 

Mighty Middle

Jagmeet Singh is touting himself as someone who understands the challenges of the poor, because he has been there and seen it first hand. That is how he is defining himself to the public. While at the same time calling Justin Trudeau an "elitist" (his word)

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

WWWTT wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

Pondering wrote:

You know I have never held Trudeau's background against him. Actions not wealth define a person. 

Singh has a much more impressive resume of accomplishments but that isn't the deciding factor either. 

Policy is. 

Well I certainly agree. Policy is all that matters. There are some policies in the works now that will benefit almost everyone (National Housing Act for example)

I don't care about backgrounds either. It seems the only sustained attack on Trudeau is that he's wealthy. Newsflash to those people...ALL our Ptime Ministers from day #1 were wealthy and privileged. Attacking Trudeau because not only is he privileged but he's white and for some reason that makes it alright to kick him around. I'm not a big Liberal supporter but if the NDP can't win and become our government,I'm perfectly fine with the Liberals. The other party is truly regressive and a REAL danger to our individual freedoms,our current rights,to the marginalized,etc,etc and there is a lot more to attack when it comes to Scheer and the Conservatives. Like I've said a million times..If you think the Liberals are bad,you ain't seen nothing yet with a Conservative government.

I'd rather  get SOME policies I want passed rather than NONE. And that's the only reason I'm defending the Liberals. The NDP does not have a chance in 2019 which is an unfortunate fact. Therefore I prefer a Liberal government over a Conservative one.

As for the privilege arguement,without naming names,there are some here who believe only whites are or can be economically privileged. That was true a 100 years ago ,but it's certainly not true now. Living in Montreal (and probably much more in Vancouver) it's rich (privileged) Chinese buying up a lot of our real estate. And China is a so called 'Communist' country. So go figure.

And lastly,some times I have to call bullshit when I smell it. Everyone here ripped apart Trudeau and the |Liberals over that India trip. Now Singh is in a controversy for the same thing but more blatant.

If Canadians don't care about Singh's short comings,I'm pretty sure people will look past Trudeau's.

And that is my point.

Constantly tearing apart Trudeau over his 'privileged' life gets tiring really quick. Name me ONE PM who wasn't.

So all I'm doing is calling out bullshit.

But I'm with you. Instead of attacking people for things deemed not a big deal for Singh,why don't we talk policy. It looks like the Liberals have kept their promise about cannabis and I'm pretty sure they will follow through with a National Housing Act because even the provinces want that.

It's about policy. It's also about not always getting everything you want. That's the nature of politics. But if you can get at least some of them,be happy.

We sure as hell know that we won't get ANY policy we want under a Con government. Those who don't know that are the problem.

ahh I see where you’re coming from. 

I stated privileged and not necessarily rich or wealthy. 

Justin got elected on his name and that alone. Perfect example of privilege. 

As far as comparable wealth between Jag and Justin, if Justin ever falls on hard times, he can use his celebrity and go on tour doing speeches making 50K a night. 

Oh..I see...Singh won't be dong the same as he campaigns...He's going to run without a penny he won't be having cocktail parties for $500 a plate to shore up money for the campaign.

By the way this is Canada not the US..Ex PM's don't get paid for appearances after their time in office. NONE. You think Mulroney has been running around making $50K for speeches and appearancers since he's been out of politics? Or Chretien? Or Martin? Even Harper doesn't.

To be fair,most of them end up with a high end position at a corporation,though.

Trudeau was elected on his platform. It just so happens his name is Trudeau.

So stop the horseshit,already, OK?

brookmere

Both the Conservatives and the Liberals have an interest in painting Jagmeet Singh as "the other", a man to be feared because he's going to import foreign disputes onto Canadian soil and undermine business relations with India.

With respect to the Conservatives, that's complete nonsense. They know full well they cannot return to power if the NDP faces a decline in votes, most of which would go to the Liberals. In particular, they fear a Liberal sweep of Quebec after an NDP meltdown there. That's not hypothetical, look at Lac St-Jean.

voice of the damned

Smithee wrote:

By the way this is Canada not the US..Ex PM's don't get paid for appearances after their time in office. NONE. You think Mulroney has been running around making $50K for speeches and appearancers since he's been out of politics? Or Chretien? Or Martin? Even Harper doesn't.

What is your source for saying this? Mulroney, Chretien, and Harper are all registered with speakers bureaus. Is that only for American gigs?

Pondering

Mighty Middle wrote:

Jagmeet Singh is touting himself as someone who understands the challenges of the poor, because he has been there and seen it first hand. That is how he is defining himself to the public. While at the same time calling Justin Trudeau an "elitist" (his word)

That's not the impression I got.

I have heard that while he was in university his father fell ill and he had to help support the family so he understands that precarious employment is unacceptable to people who have to work to pay for the roof over their head. He understands racism from the perspective of someone who has been carded 11 times. 

He didn't call Trudeau an elitist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37AadYgyyx4

Question: What do you think of Justin Trudeau?

Answer: Well I think he's someone that means well, that made a lot of promises, but that in his heart he doesn't really understand the struggles people are going through and the Paradise Papers show this disconnect, that he is in a world of the elite and those who are extremely wealthy and doesn't really connect with the realities people face. He hasn't faced those struggles in his real life and doesn't understand the difficult times that people are facing. 

Singh may also be priveleged to some extent but not to the degree that Trudeau is and Singh proves through his words and actions that he does have a better understanding of the struggles people face. 

Trudeau's philosophy is expressed through his choices of cabinet ministers and their actions, in particular Monreau and Freeland. Trudeau accepts the four tier society. His approach is to court the middle class "and those trying to join it" while giving minimal support to the perpetual working poor whose only choice is to keep working hard to try to join the middle class. 

voice of the damned

voice of the damned wrote:

Smithee wrote:

By the way this is Canada not the US..Ex PM's don't get paid for appearances after their time in office. NONE. You think Mulroney has been running around making $50K for speeches and appearancers since he's been out of politics? Or Chretien? Or Martin? Even Harper doesn't.

What is your source for saying this? Mulroney, Chretien, and Harper are all registered with speakers bureaus. Is that only for American gigs?

Joe Clark is registered with a speakers bureau that apparently gets him Canadian gigs. He does this free of charge? 

https://tinyurl.com/y8hk5zc7a

 

Mighty Middle

Pondering wrote:

He didn't call Trudeau an elitist.

He said Trudeau is "in a world of the elite". That is calling someone an elitist.

Pondering wrote:

Singh may also be priveleged to some extent but not to the degree that Trudeau is and Singh proves through his words and actions that he does have a better understanding of the struggles people face. 

And by trying to contrast himself with Trudeau by saying

Quote:

 He hasn't faced those struggles in his real life and doesn't understand the difficult times that people are facing. 

Thus trying contrast himself with Trudeau as being out-of-touch with ordinary Canadians. While he (Jagmeet) has that experience, and can relate to Canadians better. Since he has gone through those experiences of struggle and uncertainty.

josh

Pondering wrote:

Thank-you NR

P.S. The good news is the mainstream media is losing it's influence because they are making themselves irrelevant. 

Was that a Donald Trump tweet?

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