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Liberal leadership race

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Boom Boom
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Joined: Dec 29 2004

Stockholm makes me want to vomit.


autoworker
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Joined: Dec 21 2008
What does Elizabeth May have to do with the Liberal leadership? Is she running? At least she has a seat. Perhaps she's running for Speaker.

Ottawa Centre-Left
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Joined: Mar 6 2012

mark_alfred wrote:

Arthur Cramer wrote:

I watched the video and she sat down after two seconds of groans ("heckling" in her mind) muttering "I can't be heard."  The fact that I heard everything she said including her mutter indicated to me that she was wrong in her assessment (she clearly could be heard.)  Also, her question seemed to have been asked, rather than unfinished.  It's too bad that the video did not include Mulcair's response. 

 

I had the same thoughts when I saw it yesterday. There is no substance to her complaint and this appears to be another publicity stunt on her part.

 


mark_alfred
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Joined: Jan 3 2004

For the record, here's the entire exchange between May and Mulcair in the House:

Hansard wrote:

Ms. Elizabeth May (Saanich—Gulf Islands, GP): previous intervention next intervention    Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the leader of the official opposition if, in his comparison between trade deficits and ecological deficits, he would advance the need to actually do something about the climate crisis rather than point fingers back and forth across the aisle.

 

    The previous Liberal government had a plan in place. It would have reduced emissions. It would have—

 

    Some hon. members: Oh, oh!

 

    Ms. Elizabeth May: I am sorry, Mr. Speaker, I cannot be heard. next intervention previous intervention   [Table of Contents]

 

Hon. Thomas Mulcair: previous intervention next intervention    Actually, Mr. Speaker, the government that I was part of in Quebec City had a plan in place to reduce greenhouse gases. That is why we reduced greenhouse gases.

 

    I was actually at the Kyoto conference, in Montreal. I can inform my colleague that the Liberal Party never did a thing. That is why it has the worst record in the world.

 

    During that conference, I remember its minister, who went on to become its leader, saying that, all of a sudden, he did have a plan, but nobody was ever able to see it. When the Liberals finished their mandate after 13 years, they had done nothing on global warming and they did, indeed, have the worst record in the world.


Boom Boom
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Joined: Dec 29 2004

Saw on Facebook that someone is trying to get Andrew Coyne to enter the Liberal leadership race. Andrew Coyne??? Laughing


Arthur Cramer
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Joined: Nov 30 2010

Mark, great comment above.


Boom, Boom, LOL!


autoworker
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Joined: Dec 21 2008
pookie wrote:

I think Dominic Leblanc would be an interesting choice (tho I understand his weaknesses) and certainly better than Justin Trudeau.

I agree. LeBlanc as a French Canadian federalist, with Parilamentary experience (and a Commons seat), but without the political baggage of being Quebecois (not necessarily a weakness), would make an interesting candidate for leadership. Trudeau, as a close personal friend, and a Quebecois, could be a trustworthy, and popular, Quebec lieutenant. Such a partnership might present a viable alternative to the opposing federalist visions currently on offer.

Arthur Cramer
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autoworker wrote:
pookie wrote:

I think Dominic Leblanc would be an interesting choice (tho I understand his weaknesses) and certainly better than Justin Trudeau.

I agree. LeBlanc as a French Canadian federalist, with Parilamentary experience (and a Commons seat), but without the political baggage of being Quebecois (not necessarily a weakness), would make an interesting candidate for leadership. Trudeau, as a close personal friend, and a Quebecois, could be a trustworthy, and popular, Quebec lieutenant. Such a partnership might present a viable alternative to the opposing federalist visions currently on offer.

Heaven help working people if the Libs win again. I don't care what province they come from, a Corporatist Lib is ALWAYS a Corporatist Lib. Run left, govern right. Count on it.


autoworker
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Joined: Dec 21 2008
Is there really much difference between Rae and Mulcair?

kropotkin1951
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Joined: Jun 6 2002

Great two Liberal brats raised with silver spoons in their mouths are going to lead Canada. Leblanc has a fine last name given his Daddy was the Acadian bagman that helped deliver NB Liberal MP's to Ottawa for years before being rewarded with first a Senate seat and then the GG position.  He served under Cretien in the early '90's when the government was slashing and burning programs and stealing the UI fund.


kropotkin1951
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autoworker wrote:

Is there really much difference between Rae and Mulcair?

To begin with one is over the hill and the other is still trying to climb up it.

Wink


Arthur Cramer
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autoworker wrote:
Is there really much difference between Rae and Mulcair?

You know something Autoworker, I am completely familiar with the "Rae record'. And, I have actually bothered to learn about Tom Mulcair; and I will say here publicly, I voted for Tom and donated to his campaign. What you want us to believe is that people like myself are simply too stupid, and too niave to see things for what they are. I would wager that I have life experience equal at least to you own. To say the least, your implication that people like me are simply too stupid to see things for what they are is to say the least, insulting and, patronizing.


autoworker
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Joined: Dec 21 2008
Dear Arthur Cramer: Since you claim to know what I want people like you to believe, you should also know what I'd like you to do with yourself. I trust you won't find that patronizing.

Arthur Cramer
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Joined: Nov 30 2010

Look Autoworker, you posted previous to me and that implication of your comment was clear. To say the least, my impression of you is that you are frankly, a jerk. I didn't deserve your reply. You painted with a broad brush, buddy, and don't think that you can get away with it without being called on it. Get over yourself.


autoworker
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Joined: Dec 21 2008
...returning to the thread topic: It seems to me that Rae has backed out of the spotlight, leaving space for caucus members to step forward on individual issues. I wonder if he will leave prospective leadership candidates in their critics roles, rather than weaken the caucus in debate. Doing so may also indicate a preference for sitting members to run for leadership, by providing them with a greater profile.

Ken Burch
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Joined: Feb 26 2005

autoworker wrote:
pookie wrote:

I think Dominic Leblanc would be an interesting choice (tho I understand his weaknesses) and certainly better than Justin Trudeau.

I agree. LeBlanc as a French Canadian federalist, with Parilamentary experience (and a Commons seat), but without the political baggage of being Quebecois (not necessarily a weakness), would make an interesting candidate for leadership. Trudeau, as a close personal friend, and a Quebecois, could be a trustworthy, and popular, Quebec lieutenant. Such a partnership might present a viable alternative to the opposing federalist visions currently on offer.

Didn't know anybody still used the term "French Canadian".


Ken Burch
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Joined: Feb 26 2005

autoworker wrote:
Is there really much difference between Rae and Mulcair?

Uh yes, there is.  Rae has moved away from principles, while Mulcair has moved towards them.  That, and the voters still LIKE Mulcair.


autoworker
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Ken Burch wrote:

autoworker wrote:
Is there really much difference between Rae and Mulcair?

Uh yes, there is.  Rae has moved away from principles, while Mulcair has moved towards them.  That, and the voters still LIKE Mulcair.

Which principles, to and fro, are you speaking of?

Ken Burch
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Joined: Feb 26 2005

social justice and green values...neither of which exist in the Liberal Party any longer.


autoworker
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Ken Burch wrote:

social justice and green values...neither of which exist in the Liberal Party any longer.

I don't know how far Mulcair will go in promoting social justice, but if his recent conversion to the upgraded, value-added virtues of what he now refers to as the "oil sands" is indicative of a trend, then he's taken the first step down the slippery slope of 'jobs vs the environment', and towards a downgraded green policy.

mark_alfred
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Joined: Jan 3 2004

As I see it, the difference between Mulcair and Rae is one of reliability.  Rae came into power with the Ontario NDP promising public auto insurance but did not deliver.  Mulcair came into power as Environment Minister within the Quebec Liberals, and promised reduced greenhouse gases, along with protected parklands (both delivered).  When Charest screwed around with the latter promise, he resigned.  He could have went to the PQ, but he's a committed federalist, and so he went with the less promising NDP.  Rae, on the other hand, became less committed to social democracy, and began espousing the idea of flexibility and centralism.  So, the main difference is commitment.  That said, there are some similariities. It appears that both are quite pro-Israel.  And both seem a bit closer to the centre than I would like.  But, regardless, between the two of them, I feel that Mulcair is more reliable.  Anyway, it's not an issue since Rae is close to retiring.


autoworker
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Joined: Dec 21 2008
After being rebuffed by Mulcair on the Iran embassy issue, perhaps Dewar can take his leader's example of principled commitment, and cross the floor, and, as a sitting MP, throw his hat into the Liberal leadership race. No doubt Rae would give him a warm welcome.

janfromthebruce
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Joined: Apr 24 2007

That Mulcair decided that he didn't want to be in the PC (prov lib party) govt anymore and resigned as a cabinet minister. Dewar doesn't want to become a liberal and nor run for the leadership. And who cares what Rae thinks.


autoworker
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janfromthebruce wrote:

That Mulcair decided that he didn't want to be in the PC (prov lib party) govt anymore and resigned as a cabinet minister. Dewar doesn't want to become a liberal and nor run for the leadership. And who cares what Rae thinks.

Well, I'm not sure Mulcair would have been embraced by the Pequistes, after his slut remark. The thought of Dewar taking his leadership aspirations, not across the floor (as I erroneously suggested), but within arms length of Elizabeth May and Justin Trudeau, on the same side of the House-- call it a lateral move, may not be all that facetious. As for Rae, given his status as interim Liberal leader, and the thread topic at hand, I believe any thoughts he might have are germane to this discussion.

Ken Burch
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Joined: Feb 26 2005

Why would Dewar possibly want to join the party that's doomed to be in third place AGAIN after the next election?  It's not as though anybody who voted NDP last time has any good reason to switch to the Liberals, or will have, no matter who wins the leadership.

You have no reason to be pushing for a Liberal revival.  That party has no core values and nothing to offer the country.  And it's differences with Harper are too trivial to matter(especially on economics and social justice, which are the only truly important national issues).


Ken Burch
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Joined: Feb 26 2005

Why would Dewar possibly want to join the party that's doomed to be in third place AGAIN after the next election?  It's not as though anybody who voted NDP last time has any good reason to switch to the Liberals, or will have, no matter who wins the leadership.

You have no reason to be pushing for a Liberal revival autoworker.  That party has no core values and nothing to offer the country.  And it's differences with Harper are too trivial to matter(especially on economics and social justice, which are the only truly important national issues).  And their arrogant, essentially right-wing position on federalism will make them unelectable in Quebec for the rest of eternity.


autoworker
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Joined: Dec 21 2008
Ken Burch wrote:

Why would Dewar possibly want to join the party that's doomed to be in third place AGAIN after the next election?  It's not as though anybody who voted NDP last time has any good reason to switch to the Liberals, or will have, no matter who wins the leadership.

You have no reason to be pushing for a Liberal revival autoworker.  That party has no core values and nothing to offer the country.  And it's differences with Harper are too trivial to matter(especially on economics and social justice, which are the only truly important national issues).  And their arrogant, essentially right-wing position on federalism will make them unelectable in Quebec for the rest of eternity.

Are we not in a thread about the Liberal leadership race? As for "pushing" for a "revival", I didn't initiate the topic, but, since you mention third party status, your apparent hubris has blinded you to the fact that the NDP (which seems to be listing starboard, of late) was exactly where the Liberals are now. As for their electability, in Quebec or out, it would be arrogant to presume who voter's will choose. Besides, who's to say that the NDP won't fracture in the meantime.

Ippurigakko
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Joined: May 30 2011

https://www.facebook.com/questions/366805440061638/

 

do you think trudeau will win if he seeks lib leader? Ugh! he remind me of Mexican 2012 elections PRI Enrique!

will trudeau revive liberals??


autoworker
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Joined: Dec 21 2008
Ippurigakko wrote:

https://www.facebook.com/questions/366805440061638/

 

do you think trudeau will win if he seeks lib leader? Ugh! he remind me of Mexican 2012 elections PRI Enrique!

will trudeau revive liberals??

Justin Trudeau is an asset to his party, but I don't believe he's the one to lead it out of the wilderness. He will, however, attract popular interest to the leadership race, and generate a degree of renewed interest in the Trudeau legacy of federalism.

janfromthebruce
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Joined: Apr 24 2007

Autoworker, there was one poll with the NDP not leading or tied with the Cons and you are stating "listing starboard of late"! Wow, liberal fantasy is working overtime.


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