Liberal leadership race

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mark_alfred

The Liberals seem intent on cloning the NDP leadership race.  Joyce Murray, a recent candidate, is playing the role of Nathan Cullen.

felixr

mark_alfred wrote:

The Liberals seem intent on cloning the NDP leadership race.  Joyce Murray, a recent candidate, is playing the role of Nathan Cullen.

Lol.

clambake

She's really on the ball with the pot legalization and taxation idea though. Pandering for votes or not, I really feel this was a missed opportunity for the NDP candidates to take this stance in their leadership race.

Policywonk

theleftyinvestor wrote:

Oh boy...

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Justin+Trudeau+backs+Chinese+takeov...

Justin Trudeau backs Chinese takeover of Nexen as way to strengthen economic ties

OTTAWA — Justin Trudeau has come out strongly in favour of a Chinese state-owned energy company’s effort to purchase Calgary-based petroleum producer Nexen.

Trudeau made the comments in an opinion column published in some Postmedia newspapers and websites Tuesday, arguing that China’s objectives are not “sinister” and that Canada is in an enviable position for engaging the Asian power.

“China has a game plan,” the Liberal leadership contender wrote. “There is nothing inherently sinister about that. They have needs and the world has resources to meet those needs.

“We Canadians have more of those resources — and therefore more leverage — than any nation on Earth.”

[...]

How do you write Trudeaumania in Chinese? :P

No one with any environmental credentials would say what Trudeau said. He sounds like a damn Conservative.

mark_alfred

clambake wrote:

She's really on the ball with the pot legalization and taxation idea though. Pandering for votes or not, I really feel this was a missed opportunity for the NDP candidates to take this stance in their leadership race.

It's reflective of the fact that the Liberal leadership race is crowded with no-names, whereas the NDP leadership race had a greater proportion of people with actual governing experience running.  Hebert wrote on this here.

janfromthebruce

And reading Murray's present thoughts on 3 parties who not the Conservatives electing one candidate is like pre-election primary. So what happens is the candidate with the most bucks wins the nomination prior to the real deal - election - thus costing big bucks and deep pockets. She suggested it would be open to the constituents and not just members of each riding association.

I wonder if this is to get around the limit on campaign spending????

theleftyinvestor

I like the co-operation idea... but lest Murray forget that it was a coalition of Liberals and Conservatives who first elected her as an MLA, where do Lib/Con swing voters fit into that picture?

Ippurigakko

justin trudeau said he support preferential voting or IRV/AV on cbc news? do u think NDP will gains in AV system???

theleftyinvestor

Regarding preferential voting: That was already covered by a Liberal policy convention - they chose IRV/AV as their preferred electoral reform.

A friend of mine did an analysis using second-choice polls with the 2011 election results, assuming an Australia-like IRV system:

http://nealjennings.wordpress.com/2011/05/05/elxn41-under-a-different-el...

For 2011, the results were:

BQ 1 seat (-3 from 4)
Conservative 144 seats (-23 from 167)
Green 1 seat (no change)
Liberal 46 seats (+12 from 34)
NDP 116 (+14 from 102)

And those results would have allowed the NDP to govern with the support of Liberals, if Liberals would have it. NDP and Liberals would have benefited nearly equally, both to the detriment of Conservatives and the Bloc. That's not to say the same analysis holds true for all elections, but it helps to counter the argument that Liberals would benefit unfairly to the detriment of the NDP under such a system. In ridings where the Liberals and Greens were eliminated, some stayed Conservative compared to FPTP results, and some went NDP (e.g. Saskatoon-Rosetown-Biggar).

Sadly the big sheet he posted of riding-by-riding calculations has since been taken down.

clambake

So Garneau is in. Hopefully he can somehow take this thing to avoid the Trudeau-hyped Liberal upswing.

mark_alfred

janfromthebruce wrote:

And reading Murray's present thoughts on 3 parties who not the Conservatives electing one candidate is like pre-election primary. So what happens is the candidate with the most bucks wins the nomination prior to the real deal - election - thus costing big bucks and deep pockets. She suggested it would be open to the constituents and not just members of each riding association.

I wonder if this is to get around the limit on campaign spending????

That's an interesting thought. 

Rabble_Incognito

The Liberal Party of Canada has no substantive set of principles, beyond love of family and things 'Canadian'.

If Canadians want a charismatic leader who will swing with the rich, they have Garneau and Trudeau now - neither has a platform, or knows yet what they think. They'll learn what they think as the polls come in - it is a race with lots of charisma, little in the way of brand recognition - they just smell like tories with better social graces. People love cults of personality.

Our rep has a background in law and public administration - knowing what you're doing is the 'new black' as far as I'm concerned. The NDP should taunt these guys as really not standing for much of anything - they don't have a background making law, or deciding on the judicious use of public funds.

Garneau in particular wasn't a successful scientist, nor a terribly successful military person, and as a politician, he hasn't rocked the world. Trudeau has great hair. These guys are nothing to worry about - the real opponent is Harper.

mark_alfred

Rabble_Incognito wrote:

little in the way of brand recognition - they just smell like tories with better social graces.

But that is the Liberal brand and always has been.

TheArchitect

Marc Garneau's new slogan is Let's Take Canada to New Heights.  He's sure not being subtle about emphasizing his astronaut past.

socialdemocrati...

The Liberal brand is "we're the only ones competent enough to govern, the other parties are too ideological". So running on nothing has worked for them before in the past, as has promising everything to everyone and breaking every promise. The question is whether 10 years out of power is enough to make people forget that, and trust them once again.

NorthReport

This should be Trudeau's theme song as it fits him to "T"

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKFTtYx2OHc

socialdemocrati...

From this article... www.ottawasun.com/2012/11/28/trudeau-slams-tory-divisions-2

Little Trudeau wrote:
“The politics of division don't work in the Liberal party.”

Little Trudeau wrote:
“Canada isn't doing well right now because it's Albertans who control our community and socio-democratic agenda.”

And just to kick himself in the face one more time:

Quote:
He said the Conservatives and NDP have a propensity for telling Canadians why they should vote against their opponents rather than giving them reasons to vote for their candidates.

This from the Liberal Party? Are you kidding me? Are you fucking kidding me?

 

PrairieDemocrat15

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

From this article... www.ottawasun.com/2012/11/28/trudeau-slams-tory-divisions-2

Little Trudeau wrote:
“The politics of division don't work in the Liberal party.”

Little Trudeau wrote:
“Canada isn't doing well right now because it's Albertans who control our community and socio-democratic agenda.”

And just to kick himself in the face one more time:

Quote:
He said the Conservatives and NDP have a propensity for telling Canadians why they should vote against their opponents rather than giving them reasons to vote for their candidates.

This from the Liberal Party? Are you kidding me? Are you fucking kidding me?

I recall during the last election campaign, just after the NDP surge, Michael Ignatieff's best pitch was (approximation): "We don't want a government of the far-left; we don't want a government of the far-right; we want a nice, centrist, Liberal government."

What vision from the Party of No Ideas!

 

PrairieDemocrat15

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

From this article... www.ottawasun.com/2012/11/28/trudeau-slams-tory-divisions-2

Little Trudeau wrote:
“The politics of division don't work in the Liberal party.”

Little Trudeau wrote:
“Canada isn't doing well right now because it's Albertans who control our community and socio-democratic agenda.”

And just to kick himself in the face one more time:

Quote:
He said the Conservatives and NDP have a propensity for telling Canadians why they should vote against their opponents rather than giving them reasons to vote for their candidates.

This from the Liberal Party? Are you kidding me? Are you fucking kidding me?

I recall during the last election campaign, just after the NDP surge, Michael Ignatieff's best pitch was (approximation): "We don't want a government of the far-left; we don't want a government of the far-right; we want a nice, centrist, Liberal government."

What vision from the Party of No Ideas!

 

clambake

Trudeau calls long-gun registry 'a failure'

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/12/01/pol-the-house-justin-tr...

Quote:

Where Justin Trudeau stands

  • On a carbon tax versus a cap-and-trade scheme, Trudeau said, "I don't know."
  • On raising the GST: "No."
  • On smoking pot, Trudeau said, "Yes, I have. I'm not particularly fond of it, but I have."
  • On decriminalizing and legalizing marijuana, Trudeau said, "yes," and added that "it's an automatic next step to look at taxing and regulation."
  • On legalizing, decriminalizing or deregulating acts associated with prostitution: "I don't know yet."
  • On the proposed Northern Gateway pipeline project, Trudeau said he's not opposed to pipelines in general, just this particular one, citing environmental concerns. "It's the wrong one."
  • On China's growing investment in Canada's natural resources: Trudeau said that he's in favour of more trade with China and that's it's important to "engage" with the Chinese and not be "dictating at them." He called Prime Minister Stephen Harper's early stance with China "immature."
  • On Old Age Security, Trudeau said he would reverse the federal government's decision to raise the age of eligibility from 65 to 67.

Hey, maybe JT is trying to court the conservative vote, which would split the right wing in Ontario, givng the NDP a chance to come up the middle to victory :)

Ippurigakko

so JT liberal and harper conservative vote would split the right wing and NDP victory in 2014-2015? similar Quebec election 2012 Liberal and CAQ are vote splitting, remember jean charest is former PC and PQ victory.

Hunky_Monkey

Didn't Trudeau vote to keep the registry?

Seems he's trying to court all the blue Liberals that left the Liberal Party. Not sure if it'll work coming from Trudeau. It's also unclear how well it'll fly inside a party that believes in little but hitched its wagon to the registry big time for political reasons.

Centrist

Time for a reality check and formulate a strategic "slap-down" to hit this dumbster Trudeau irritant in the bud. If not now - then later on.  Because it's apparent that the party brass and posters on here still don't seem to "get it" yet. Just referring to last week's opinion poll from Harris Decima, for example:

Quote:
Mr. Trudeau would attract support across partisan lines. Overall, 21% of Conservatives, 48% of New Democrats, 44% of Greens, and 22% of BQ supporters say they’d be certain or likely to vote Liberal if he were leader

48% of current NDP supporters? These aren't "blue" Libs that will be splitting the right-wing vote. Is anyone listening?! 

NorthReport

What a hapless bunch.

What are their positions on foreign workers, the expanding gap between the rich and the poor, building a German-like apprenticeship program in Canada so we can make goods here, creating a portable company pension plan, leveling the playing field so that can once again unions will have a fair chance at organizing. Just don't hold your breath for these right-wingers to do anything except help the rich. Harper must be enjoying this, as right-wing voters when faced will vote for the real thing - think how effective tthe coke ads are.  And forget these LPC aspiring leader's bulls*** statements, what are their respective voting records. Canadians are just sick and tired of LPC lies, corruption and fraud.

Oh, look at me I'm standing on a table in a former MP's home. I just can't believe this pathetic crap. And this is what passes for leadership within the LPC.

http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/11/28/trudeau-slams-tory-divisions-2

Liberal leadership field a mile wide and a inch deep Wink

http://thechronicleherald.ca/opinion/199573-hebert-liberal-leadership-fi...

Jacob Two-Two

What has the party brass been failing to do about Justin Trudeau that makes you think they don't "get it"? Should they have had him whacked by now?

Personally, I don't think Trudeau will end up being a problem after he falls on his face a few times and gets pegged as the dilettante that he is, but that's just me. I doubt anyone in the party is taking that for granted. I'm pretty sure they're thinking hard about how to counteract Trudeau if he turns out to be popular, but it would be more than premature to launch some major offense against the guy before he's even become the leader.

theleftyinvestor

Trudeau courting blue Liberals... what is this bizarro world?

I am actually (pleasantly) surprised that Garneau is sounding less regressive than Trudeau so far.

Trudeau gives an unequivocal thumbs-up to Nexen.

Garneau, on CBC, states that he supports the Nexen takeover *on the condition* that Canada uses the opportunity to level the playing field for access to the Chinese market. In other words, if Canadian companies cannot make Chinese acquisitions the same way they are buying here, if reciprocity is not an option, there have to be concessions for fairness to Canadians. On NGP he says he believes that if the science says it's not a good idea, the government must not reverse that decision, and the concerns of aboriginals over whose land it travels must absolutely be addressed.

Honestly if Trudeau reaches for the blue vote he's gonna look like Christy Clark. The right will see him as irreversibly attached to a legacy they distrust, and the left will not trust him either. Whereas I think both sides would see credibility in Garneau. But Trudeaumania may cause temporary insanity such that they don't realize this.

adma

theleftyinvestor wrote:
Honestly if Trudeau reaches for the blue vote he's gonna look like Christy Clark. The right will see him as irreversibly attached to a legacy they distrust, and the left will not trust him either. Whereas I think both sides would see credibility in Garneau. But Trudeaumania may cause temporary insanity such that they don't realize this.

Or, perhaps, an inverse version of Ontario PC leaders like Larry Grossman and John Tory (i.e. Red Tories forced rightward against their natural disposition)

Bärlüer

clambake wrote:

Trudeau calls long-gun registry 'a failure'

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/12/01/pol-the-house-justin-tr...

He went so far as to say that having a gun is "an important facet of Canadian identity".

Where is the "I have no words" smiley when you need it...

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

"He went so far as to say that having a gun is "an important facet of Canadian identity".

Really?

Is it possible he is the Canadian Palin?

janfromthebruce

I think that Trudeau is openly pandering to certain voting constituencies - I can't believe that he would say that this is a part of Canadian identity.

I have no words

addictedtomyipod

I must not be a real Canadian as I don't own a gun.

Maybe I best put it on my gift wish list.  Let's all get guns this year and make Justin proud.

felixr

I've read that Justin's road to Liberal revival leads through Quebec. Now his advisers have him courting Tory Ontario. This guy is about a consistent and focussed as a loose hose on a fire hydrant.

jjuares

I wonder if  Trudeau's comment on the registry was a shoot from the hip statement or a calculated appeal to some targetted segment of voters?

jerrym

Arthur Cramer wrote:

"He went so far as to say that having a gun is "an important facet of Canadian identity".

Really?

Is it possible he is the Canadian Palin?

I think he tends to careen from one error to the next. After his Alberta comments devastated his image in Alberta and much of the rest of the prairies, his solution is to pick what he thinks is a 'western' issue, the gun registry, and show he is sympathetic to the West. However, comments like a gun is "an important facet of Canadian identity" are likely to alienate many Quebec and city voters. Keep on careening Justin.

clambake

Lots of comments on the CBC defending Justin. What is with this irrational loyalty to defend the Liberal brand?

Ippurigakko

u mean CBC staff or liberal supporter comments defends JT?

lagatta

I rather doubt many people in Papineau riding own guns. 

clambake

Ippurigakko wrote:

u mean CBC staff or liberal supporter comments defends JT?

User comments

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

clambake wrote:

Lots of comments on the CBC defending Justin. What is with this irrational loyalty to defend the Liberal brand?

I actually think this is easy to explain. Here in Winnipeg, we only have right wing talk. If you listen to these shows, the callers are almost always right leaning, ordinary working people, with real day-to-day, go to work and come home jobs. They all tend to vote Tory. Occassionally, a left leaning caller will call in, only to get hammered and rididculed. My point is this, I think people who agree with a way a certain thing is presented tend to be open in their support of that. What you are seeing at the CBC web site is simply Libs, or Lib leaning voters indicating their support. It really is not representative of anything. It is no secret the CBC is not a friend of the NDP. All you have to do is look at the comments on this website when the discussion of Murphy and CCC comes up to see that most people on here simply choose not to listen to it. It is a waste of time, so why bother? That is of course for occassional lunatics like myself who occassionally get on and into shouting matches with Murphy (I have to stop doing that by the way, Laughing). So, what you are seeing is simply support for a partiuclar postition. The people posting there are arguably not really representative of much other then that they are representative of people who are supportive and agree with the CBC's take on things. I mean, even here on Rabble, we have been having a lot of discussion about how "representative" polling acutally is. Bottom line, people tend to speak up when they agree with something, and to be quiet when they don't. I don't know how much truck I would put in what you are seeing on the CBC website. Honestly, I don't go there anymore. It is a COMPLETE waste of time. Post here instead!

jerrym

The Justin quote below from http://canadanewsnetwork.wordpress.com/2012/12/03/justin-trudeau-reveals... suggests his position is not based on political calculation as I suggested above but from a "*pow* *pow*  ... watch out" cowboy mentality. Once again he also brings up the stereotypical "crazy Albertans and Quebecers out to get his father. Worse, I think he must be hallucinating about his cowboy heroism when he says he " pumped six rounds into the dude". Is he mentally stable?

"One day when I was nine years old, one of the officers left behind his fully-loaded gun in our house, and so I took it and kept it in my room.  Several weeks later, a masked intruder somehow slipped past security and entered our home during dinner.  I ran upstairs, fetched the handgun, and came down and pumped six rounds into the dude.  He turned out to be a jaded Albertan who was trying to seek revenge for the National Energy Program imposed by my father.”

“That night, I realized the value of the right to self-defense.  With the imposition of the NEP and the rise of the FLQ, there were a lot of crazy Albertans and Quebecers out there….all my family members carried concealed weapons just in case.  If anybody else decided to get all up in our grill…*pow* *pow*…watch out!”

“I really envied the Americans’ constitutional right to bear arms….so much so, I became a member of the NRA.  Here in Canada, the destruction of the gun registry is a small step in the right direction as it was very punitive towards law-abiding citizens.  As Prime Minister, I would continue the liberalization of our gun laws in order to provide Canadians with increased options to defend themselves and their property.  I believe every Canadian has a right to a gun in their home, and I would help to create firearms tax deductions aimed at families to provide a further incentive for gun ownership.”

This seems to promote having a gun in the home like the old 'chicken in every pot'  political promise with firearms tax deductions to help this along, as well as a 'gee-whiz I wish we had the Americans second constitutional amendment' approach to guarantee nothing could be done to limit gun ownership despite the tens of thousands murders, accidental killings and shootings that come with this approach in the US. Not even any consideration of taking gun safety courses to hopefully reduce somewhat the number of resulting deaths. He sounds like a hard-core survivalist. He is more than a shallow politician. He is dangerous to the health of our society. 

 

 

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

I hate to ask what for sure is going to seem like the most obtuse question anyone could ask, but is this snark? I thought it was against the law for Canadians to carry a concealed weapon.

Are there any lawyers or law enforcment officers on these pages who could clarify this for me?

I really find this hard to believe as being truthful, maybe because it seems just, too, "American".

Thanks.

Unionist

Ummm, Arthur, it's a joke site.

 

Unionist

Jonathan Haidt wrote:
Once people join a political team, they get ensnared in its moral matrix. They see confirmation of their grand narrative everywhere, and it’s difficult—perhaps impossible—to convince them that they are wrong if you argue with them from outside of their matrix.

 

quizzical

 edited didn't know joke site!!!!! btw joking like that isn't tff. esp. when 2 men were just arrested for  shooting Maple last year in BC and a football player  just shot his gf 3 times in the head and then himself.

theleftyinvestor

I figured this paragraph would give away that it was a joke:
“Contrary to everybody’s perception of me, I am an enthusiastic firearm user and supporter….in fact, I’m packing heat right now,” stated Trudeau, while flipping open his blazer to reveal a .357 Magnum on his side. ”Rifles, handguns, single-barreled shotguns, double-barreled shotguns, semi-automatics, fully-automatics, the BFG 9000….I’m down with anything.”

Unionist

quizzical wrote:

 edited didn't know joke site!!!!! btw joking like that isn't tff. esp. when 2 men were just arrested for  shooting Maple last year in BC and a football player  just shot his gf 3 times in the head and then himself.

The "joke" site is pretty disgusting (scan some of the other items). But don't you find it a little scary that people are ready to believe a report like that? I do.

 

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Unionist:

I was pretty sure it was snark, but I don't know everything all the time, so I ask. Thanks for answering my question as always. By the way, I hope you are well.

Unionist

I am very well, Arthur - and who knows, we may get a decent government one of these days - nes gadol hayah sham!

Happy Chanukah.

 

quizzical

Unionist wrote:
quizzical wrote:
 edited didn't know joke site!!!!! btw joking like that isn't tff. esp. when 2 men were just arrested for  shooting Maple last year in BC and a football player  just shot his gf 3 times in the head and then himself.

The "joke" site is pretty disgusting (scan some of the other items). But don't you find it a little scary that people are ready to believe a report like that? I do.

 na...i find it scarey people think joking like that is funny. maybe its a woman sensitivity thing being it almost Dec 6th and all. along with this weekend's arrests and attack.

Brachina

If Justin opposed the gun registery why did he for to keep it? Flip Flop much?

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