Liberal leadership race

1044 posts / 0 new
Last post
theleftyinvestor

Ippurigakko wrote:

So i predict LPC leadership race will same in Ontario Liberal Wynne vs Pupatello

Like

1st and 2nd round - Justin vs Garneau then 3rd round Garneau elected. lol

That would require the 1st round to see Justin with less than 50%. At the current stage it's hard to imagine a scenario where he doesn't make 50%.

mark_alfred

Barring some spectacular blow-out, it's a Trudeau coronation, pure and simple.  No one else stands a chance.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Latest fawning MSM Trudeau article, http://www.ottawacitizen.com/story.html?id=7960615. Ottawa Citizen. Oh! Isn't he just marvey?

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

I still say that this is an easy article on him and designed to try and make him "look like an ordinary guy". Its garbage.

felixr

Based on the list of events Justin spoke at, I think we know now who's got his ear: anyone that can pay for it.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture
jerrym

Justin Trudeau has just disclosed his personal finances "to quell speculation about his family's wealth and head off concerns over potential conflicts of interest."

I do not have a problem with him being wealthy (according to the documents he is worth $1.2 million) as there have a fair number of progressive politicians who were well off and accomplished a good deal, but I do with the way he portrays himself in the article with respect to his wealth. 

"He said he agreed to speak about his personal finances, a subject he has never discussed publicly, so that people would better understand how he chose to use his money. 'It wasn't to go off and spend a year in Saint-Tropez or buy a boat and sail around the world,' he said after a campaign stop in St. Catharines, Ont., last week. 'I worked as a high school teacher and a whitewater river guide in the summer to make money. I worked as a camp counsellor earning $900 for a summer.' Dividends from the family's holding company were not enough to live off, Trudeau says, but the money did allow him to travel, study and take lower paying jobs before he became a professional public speaker and, later, an MP. ... 'Whatever we wanted to do, we had enough to live a modest but decent life.'

After school, Trudeau ended up in Whistler Village, B.C., teaching snowboarding and putting his martial arts and boxing training to work as a doorman at the Rogue Wolf nightclub. In Whistler, he slept on a friend's sofa and drove a beat-up used Mercedes with holes in the floor. 'There was no thought of going off to be a ski bum. I knew I had to go off and work.' " He talks of only owning a semi-detached house in Montreal - just an average middle class guy in other words. However, the article reveals that he bought the house for $777,000 after selling another house for $1.6 million (bought for $1.2 million).

Furthermore, the article reveals starting in 2006 he started earning serious money as a paid speaker. "His first events were booked at $5,000 each, but his fee quickly rose with the demand. In 2007, with some clients paying $15,000 for an event, Trudeau earned a jaw-dropping $462,000 on the speaking circuit.In addition to his fee, Trudeau received business-class plane tickets. As recently as 2012, he earned $72,000 for four speaking events."

The potential for conflicts of interest arising from these speaker fees, especially the recent ones is one concern. However, I am also concerned about his verbal portrayals of himself in his campaign speeches noted above as a man of relatively modest means. Whle he is careful not to lie in describing his life, it seems to me to be deceptive and indicative of someone who shows a similar tendency when discussing issues, even more so than the average politician. 

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Documents+show+Trudeau+worth+least+mill...

mark_alfred

One way to gauge the strength of a candidate is to see how the Conservatives have responded.  In looking at the Conservatives youtube page, they have fifteen videos, three of which specifically target Mulcair (one in French) and one which specifically targets Bob Rae (in English).  I recall when the Bob Rae ads were running.  Clearly, the Conservatives felt threatened by Bob Rae, even though nationally the polls showed he didn't rank particularly high (IE, not as high as Trudeau.)  I speculate that it was because seniors in Ontario like Rae, and this potentially would have eaten into Conservative gains.  Also, Rae was more open to a coalition, which may have been a concern for the Cons.  Trudeau, I figure, will be popular in cities with middle-aged people.  This demographic isn't a particular concern to the Conservatives, so I figure they haven't been as quick to jump to the attack (though they did attack pretty vigorously when they discovered the Alberta comments, but there is no continuing link to this on the Conservative's websites.)  The Cons may be taking a wait and see approach.  They still have some attacks toward the NDP on their site, but this is not as prominent as it once was.  There's no attack on the Liberals currently.  Likewise, the NDP has some attacks on the Conservatives on their site, but nothing about the Liberals.  Likewise, it could be a wait and see approach toward the Liberal leadership.  Still, with Rae the Conservatives did not "wait and see".  They clearly did not want him to run.  Seems they're not as concerned about Trudeau.  The NDP also don't seem concerned.

Brachina

I believe that taking speaking fees as an MP was unethical, but taking speaking fees from school boards and school, which Education btw is part of his portiflio as critic, is borderline criminal. That money was supposed to go to peoples education, not on a Justin Trudeau fan club.

And I want who ever thought Justin Trudeau was worth spending money on as unqualified as he is to resign, as far as I'm concerned that was stealing from schools to feed some fan boy fantasies. Disgusting. Justin's another Bev Oda in the making. He's a spoiled rich boy.

Debater

It was a genuinely touching moment - can't you show some compassion once in a while?  C'mon, you Grouch - I'm sure even you have a heart in there somewhere. Wink

Debater

mark_alfred wrote:

One way to gauge the strength of a candidate is to see how the Conservatives have responded.  In looking at the Conservatives youtube page, they have fifteen videos, three of which specifically target Mulcair (one in French) and one which specifically targets Bob Rae (in English).  I recall when the Bob Rae ads were running.  Clearly, the Conservatives felt threatened by Bob Rae, even though nationally the polls showed he didn't rank particularly high (IE, not as high as Trudeau.)  I speculate that it was because seniors in Ontario like Rae, and this potentially would have eaten into Conservative gains.  Also, Rae was more open to a coalition, which may have been a concern for the Cons.  Trudeau, I figure, will be popular in cities with middle-aged people.  This demographic isn't a particular concern to the Conservatives, so I figure they haven't been as quick to jump to the attack (though they did attack pretty vigorously when they discovered the Alberta comments, but there is no continuing link to this on the Conservative's websites.)  The Cons may be taking a wait and see approach.  They still have some attacks toward the NDP on their site, but this is not as prominent as it once was.  There's no attack on the Liberals currently.  Likewise, the NDP has some attacks on the Conservatives on their site, but nothing about the Liberals.  Likewise, it could be a wait and see approach toward the Liberal leadership.  Still, with Rae the Conservatives did not "wait and see".  They clearly did not want him to run.  Seems they're not as concerned about Trudeau.  The NDP also don't seem concerned.

I think you're engaging in a lot of supposition here.  I don't think the Conservatives were that afraid of Bob Rae as he never really pulled up big numbers or was much of a threat.  But I think they thought they would start off with their usual attack ads early on against a potential opponent just in case.  They did the same thing with Mulcair last year.  But lately I have noticed they have backed off Mulcair and the Liberals as well.  I think they're just waiting until the next appropriate time later in the year to begin the next batch of attack ads against the other leaders.

But don't forget that the Conservatives did release through Sun Media the attack on Justin Trudeau for an old interview prior to the Calgary Centre By-Election a few months ago.  I'm sure they'll engage in attacks again later in the year.

autoworker

Hopefully, le Dauphin won't be equal to the opportunity, and embarrassment, of receiving brown envelopes stuffed with cash, as did a certain, former Prime Minister with 'working class' roots.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Debater wrote:

It was a genuinely touching moment - can't you show some compassion once in a while?  C'mon, you Grouch - I'm sure even you have a heart in there somewhere. Wink

Debater I have a huge heart, that is why I'll NEVER vote Lib. I don't believe in EVER cutting social spending.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

You know, its amazing. I am reading discussion threads over at the Free Press. All the posting Libs are saying that all they have to do is pick Trudeau because HE IS Canada! That's all they think they need to do. I am starting to feel less and less fearfull of him. Go ahead you guys. Pick him. Debater, I DARE YOU! Go ahead. No, seriously, really, GO AHEAD. I DARE YOU! Tom Mulcair will chew him up and spit out his bones. I'm not worried any more, and I DON'T CARE what the polls say. Gloat about that all you want. 2015, Mulcair will be PM. Despite your thoughts to the contrary, Canadians prefer substance over fluff. Stick a fork in yourselves, you guys are SO done!

David Young

Arthur Cramer wrote:

Debater wrote:

It was a genuinely touching moment - can't you show some compassion once in a while?  C'mon, you Grouch - I'm sure even you have a heart in there somewhere. Wink

Debater I have a huge heart, that is why I'll NEVER vote Lib. I don't believe in EVER cutting social spending.

Agreed, Arthur.

I'll hold my nose and vote Green before I ever vote Liberal!

 

mark_alfred

Debater wrote:

mark_alfred wrote:

Likewise, it could be a wait and see approach toward the Liberal leadership.  Still, with Rae the Conservatives did not "wait and see".  They clearly did not want him to run.  Seems they're not as concerned about Trudeau.  The NDP also don't seem concerned.

I think you're engaging in a lot of supposition here.  I don't think the Conservatives were that afraid of Bob Rae as he never really pulled up big numbers or was much of a threat.  But I think they thought they would start off with their usual attack ads early on against a potential opponent just in case. 

My "supposition" is that the Conservative war room takes action based on research and polling, rather than mere whimsy as you suggest.  As you stated, Rae "never really pulled up big numbers".  So why, when it became clear that the Liberal Party was going to allow him to run AND that he intended to run, did the Conservatives suddenly decide to attack him so ruthlessly for a prolonged period of time?  There's been no equivalent prolonged campaign on Trudeau or anyone else who is vying or who vied for the leadership of any opposition party.  Previously such prolonged campaigns were reserved for those who are confirmed leaders.  I feel this anomaly suggests that they really did not want him to run, and that they preferred any of the others over him. Trudeau was a Rae supporter, so if they wanted to avoid Trudeau, why would they engage in a prolonged campaign to frustrate Rae?

jjuares

mark_alfred wrote:

Debater wrote:

mark_alfred wrote:

Likewise, it could be a wait and see approach toward the Liberal leadership.  Still, with Rae the Conservatives did not "wait and see".  They clearly did not want him to run.  Seems they're not as concerned about Trudeau.  The NDP also don't seem concerned.

I think you're engaging in a lot of supposition here.  I don't think the Conservatives were that afraid of Bob Rae as he never really pulled up big numbers or was much of a threat.  But I think they thought they would start off with their usual attack ads early on against a potential opponent just in case. 

My "supposition" is that the Conservative war room takes action based on research and polling, rather than mere whimsy as you suggest.  As you stated, Rae "never really pulled up big numbers".  So why, when it became clear that the Liberal Party was going to allow him to run AND that he intended to run, did the Conservatives suddenly decide to attack him so ruthlessly for a prolonged period of time?  There's been no equivalent prolonged campaign on Trudeau or anyone else who is vying or who vied for the leadership of any opposition party.  Previously such prolonged campaigns were reserved for those who are confirmed leaders.  I feel this anomaly suggests that they really did not want him to run, and that they preferred any of the others over him. Trudeau was a Rae supporter, so if they wanted to avoid Trudeau, why would they engage in a prolonged campaign to frustrate Rae?

I don't like Rae and never did However, he performs well in the house and is brilliant. He would be a considerable threat to other parties.  

adma

jjuares wrote:
I don't like Rae and never did However, he performs well in the house and is brilliant. He would be a considerable threat to other parties. 

Or at worst, he'd be like 2000-model Joe Clark--who, lest we forget, was considered by some to have actually won the election debates that year, only his party was too sickly for it to have made a difference (except maybe to regain some token lost ground from CCRAP).

And it's the "sickly party syndrome" that, more than anything, explains whatever limits to Rae's ability to raise post-Iggy Liberal fortunes.

Debater

mark_alfred wrote:

Debater wrote:

mark_alfred wrote:

Likewise, it could be a wait and see approach toward the Liberal leadership.  Still, with Rae the Conservatives did not "wait and see".  They clearly did not want him to run.  Seems they're not as concerned about Trudeau.  The NDP also don't seem concerned.

I think you're engaging in a lot of supposition here.  I don't think the Conservatives were that afraid of Bob Rae as he never really pulled up big numbers or was much of a threat.  But I think they thought they would start off with their usual attack ads early on against a potential opponent just in case. 

My "supposition" is that the Conservative war room takes action based on research and polling, rather than mere whimsy as you suggest.  As you stated, Rae "never really pulled up big numbers".  So why, when it became clear that the Liberal Party was going to allow him to run AND that he intended to run, did the Conservatives suddenly decide to attack him so ruthlessly for a prolonged period of time?  There's been no equivalent prolonged campaign on Trudeau or anyone else who is vying or who vied for the leadership of any opposition party.  Previously such prolonged campaigns were reserved for those who are confirmed leaders.  I feel this anomaly suggests that they really did not want him to run, and that they preferred any of the others over him. Trudeau was a Rae supporter, so if they wanted to avoid Trudeau, why would they engage in a prolonged campaign to frustrate Rae?

Well, it looks like the Conservative attacks on Trudeau have begun.  Jason Kenney went after Justin yesterday!

 

http://blogs.canoe.ca/eyeonthehill/general/jason-kenney-slams-trudeau/

mark_alfred

Kenney is making the same critique that Garneau attempted to make in the last debate. 

Hunky_Monkey

I wonder if we'll see an attack ad about a certain millionaire MP who talks all about community service yet makes hundreds of thousands of dollars charging community groups and school boards speaking fees while he makes $157,731 a year as an MP... and misses his work in the House of Commons doing it.

I guess community service for Trudeau comes with a price attached.

Is he ever giving both Mulcair and Harper so much material to make mincemeat of him after he wins the leadership... and it's coming.

Debater

You saw this weekend how ineffective those attacks on Trudeau are.  And if all Mulcair is going to do is attack Trudeau without offering anything positive to Canadians, it will not help NDP support in the next election.

Btw, Trudeau is getting praise for the transparency he showed in revealing his financial situation to Canadians - a higher amount of disclosure than anyone else has shown so far.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Debater wrote:

You saw this weekend how ineffective those attacks on Trudeau are.  And if all Mulcair is going to do is attack Trudeau without offering anything positive to Canadians, it will not help NDP support in the next election.

Btw, Trudeau is getting praise for the transparency he showed in revealing his financial situation to Canadians - a higher amount of disclosure than anyone else has shown so far.

Debater, we saw nothing. Mulcair has spent little to no time talking about Trudeau, but nice attempt at spin. Come to think of it, the NDP hasn't said much about Trudeau as well, but nice attempt at sping As to Mulcair having nothing positive to say, unless you have been holed up in a cave without a PC, TV, Radio, Newspaper or other form of communication, it is asstounding to hear you make that claim, to say the least. I think you are going to have do better then you have if you want anyone around here to take YOU seriously, on ANYTHING. I'm just sayin'.

Oh by the way Bub, while Trudeau had to invite himself to see Spence, our party has elected MPs who are part of the Aboriginal leadership of this country and stood with Chief Spence from the beginning. Unlike you guys, we can send ACTUAL leadership to STAND with Chief Spence, as opposed to YOUR guys seeking PHOTO-OPS. Again, I'm just sayin'.

Brachina

You can't spin away Trudeau's latest and worst ethics breach.

Justin pillaged the education system to feather his own nest, as rich as he is. Its disgusting and wrong. When Rathika was education critic for the NDP she met with students and schools and guess what she did it for free!

Trudeau wasn't transparent because he's honest, he's transparent because he's too f***ing stupid to realize ripping off the education system is wrong, especially when yoi already make great money and are rich.

Trudeau's sense of entitlement is outrageous and honestly he's the most corrupt member of the Liberal cacus which makes him as big a threat to Canada as Harper, because Justin's for sale.

People aren't paying attention yet, he's not even liberal leader yet and the next election is over 2 years away, but people will find out what a fool and dirtbag Justin really is. Mark my words, Speakergate and Albertahate, is only the beginning of scandals and skeletons in the closet for Justin.

I'd bet money, if I had any, that this is just the beginning.

Debater

Brachina wrote:
You can't spin away Trudeau's latest and worst ethics breach. Justin pillaged the education system to feather his own nest, as rich as he is. Its disgusting and wrong. When Rathika was education critic for the NDP she met with students and schools and guess what she did it for free! Trudeau wasn't transparent because he's honest, he's transparent because he's too f***ing stupid to realize ripping off the education system is wrong, especially when yoi already make great money and are rich. Trudeau's sense of entitlement is outrageous and honestly he's the most corrupt member of the Liberal cacus which makes him as big a threat to Canada as Harper, because Justin's for sale. People aren't paying attention yet, he's not even liberal leader yet and the next election is over 2 years away, but people will find out what a fool and dirtbag Justin really is. Mark my words, Speakergate and Albertahate, is only the beginning of scandals and skeletons in the closet for Justin. I'd bet money, if I had any, that this is just the beginning.

Your post is disgusting.  Why do you engage in name-calling by calling Justin a 'dirtbag'?  Not to mention saying he is 'stupid', 'corrupt', 'fool' etc.  You don't have any other way to express yourself?  Is this the party of Jack Layton?  Nothing but attacks.

And is Rathika the NDP MP who didn't even know what the correct population of Canada is?  I'm not sure if she should have been Education Critic.  Hopefully she will be voted out in the next election and that riding will return to its Liberal roots.

And Trudeau is not that rich anyway.  He's poor compared to politicians like Paul Martin or Mitt Romney who have hundreds of millions of dollars.  And the next election is not necessarily over 2 years away.  Harper will call the election as early as next year if he thinks he can get away with it.  There is already some speculation that's what he'll do.  He's broken the election law before and he will do it again if he can.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Debator, Rathika will be re-elected. And talk about persumptuous, "Hopefully she will be voted out in the next election and that riding will return to its Liberal roots".  See, that's your problem. You can't seem to figure out that the idea of "Liberal Roots" is trite. I have said it to you in many, many ways. The jig is up. Canadians aren't going to be duped again by you guys. Your day is done, son.

jjuares

Debater wrote:

Brachina wrote:
You can't spin away Trudeau's latest and worst ethics breach. Justin pillaged the education system to feather his own nest, as rich as he is. Its disgusting and wrong. When Rathika was education critic for the NDP she met with students and schools and guess what she did it for free! Trudeau wasn't transparent because he's honest, he's transparent because he's too f***ing stupid to realize ripping off the education system is wrong, especially when yoi already make great money and are rich. Trudeau's sense of entitlement is outrageous and honestly he's the most corrupt member of the Liberal cacus which makes him as big a threat to Canada as Harper, because Justin's for sale. People aren't paying attention yet, he's not even liberal leader yet and the next election is over 2 years away, but people will find out what a fool and dirtbag Justin really is. Mark my words, Speakergate and Albertahate, is only the beginning of scandals and skeletons in the closet for Justin. I'd bet money, if I had any, that this is just the beginning.

Your post is disgusting.  Why do you engage in name-calling by calling Justin a 'dirtbag'?  Not to mention saying he is 'stupid', 'corrupt', 'fool' etc.  You don't have any other way to express yourself?  Is this the party of Jack Layton?  Nothing but attacks.

And is Rathika the NDP MP who didn't even know what the correct population of Canada is?  I'm not sure if she should have been Education Critic.  Hopefully she will be voted out in the next election and that riding will return to its Liberal roots.

And Trudeau is not that rich anyway.  He's poor compared to politicians like Paul Martin or Mitt Romney who have hundreds of millions of dollars.  And the next election is not necessarily over 2 years away.  Harper will call the election as early as next year if he thinks he can get away with it.  There is already some speculation that's what he'll do.  He's broken the election law before and he will do it again if he can.

I wonder what the problem is here. Many posts here have spoken of Harper in an even more critical manner. Did you react the same way and write a post with such strong emotion. I also believe that Justin's speaking engageents while sitting as an MP were ethically questionable at best. And maybe "diirtbag" is an inappropriate term for people who engage in ethically questionable behaviour. But then again maybe it is just a descriptive and honest term  

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

I'll tell you what the problem is. Guys like Debator can dish it out but can't take it. Its simple. There's nothing deep to understand. He's like the kid in the school yard who calls you names with his pals and then when you hit back, he goes and complains to the teacher. It's really nothing more complicated then that.

lagatta

Trudeau speaking to students at McGill, Concordia and UdM: http://tinyurl.com/TrudeauStudents (in French, from La Presse). Mr Silver Spoon actually saying tuition fees here should rise considerably:

quote:

"M. Trudeau a aussi déclaré vouloir augmenter les taux d'inscription aux études supérieures, pour les faire passer de 50 à 70 pour cent".

Guess he doesn't want kids from the riding he represents getting a degree...

Also called for "at least" a 2/3rds majority for a referendum on sovereignty to be valid... http://tinyurl.com/Trudeau2-3rds

Wonder if he's going to (dare) speak at UQAM...

All I can say about Debater is that he will have to hone his debating skills. He attacked me for something much milder than "dirtbag". Not a good way to make friends and influence people.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Lagatta, Debater isn't interested in "influencing" you. He's interested in you falling into line and doing what you're told. That's the Liberal way.

NDPP

  It's an obvious no-brainer that these two bourgeois sellout parties, the  NDP and Liberals, should, as has been suggested, join their forces to defeat the CONs. Daily, more and more they resemble each other in any case. Especially so under Mulcair, this pro-war, pro-NATO,pro imperialism, pro-Israel, pro-Big Oil, no difference party leader. With Trudeau's pretty-boy looks and Mulcair's Machiavellian brain they'd be a shoe-in, instead of splitting the vote insuring Conservative victory yet again. Or are we to be subjected instead to more endless and pointless pillow-fighting by these two political bedfellows?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

The game is FPTP electoral politics so this is to be expected.  The underclass in this country are a mix of temporary workers and refugees and marginalized citizens.  Most of them can't and don't vote.  The votes are in the middle class so that is where the polices are geared.  Got a decent job then all the parties have goodies for you to save on your taxes.  Got a job that doesn't pay a living wage and the tax breaks don't really apply.

Its simple party politics. A party of the poor and working class will never appeal to the majority of voters who are neither poor nor see themselves as working class. With PR there might be a chance to bring more viewpoints into the House but I suspect that it will take more reform than that to bring democracy into existence in Canada.

Socialist Feminist

Debater wrote:

 

 Not to mention saying he is 'stupid', 'corrupt', 'fool' etc.

 

Justin calling guns "this important facet of Canadian identity" was stupid. Do you agree?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Yes that was a stupid remark but that does not prove that the person uttering it is stupid. I think we should all accept that politicians are fair game for nasty comments and just move on. 

We should also just accept that the Liberal party's electoral history is far better than the NDP's so of course they are going to tell the same lies that they have been telling since Trudeau the First.  Many of the liberals I have known tried to believe that the party was a progressive force.  I found that delusional but the astute among them would point to the NDP's claim to being socialist and laugh at me and the irony.

I think Trudeau is going to win and I think he is going to split the vote and give Harper another majority. I am afraid that too many normal Canadians like Skating with Stars way too much and that will be Trudeau's campaign style.

That is unless the Harper government implodes by getting caught in the slime from too many little scandals or one the big one comes to light. 

autoworker

Socialist Feminist wrote:

Debater wrote:

 

 Not to mention saying he is 'stupid', 'corrupt', 'fool' etc.

 

Justin calling guns "this important facet of Canadian identity" was stupid. Do you agree?

It's no dumber than maple syrup, beaver tails, and moose hunting. Personally, I think Justin should advocate for the return of stubby beer bottles-- a lost icon of Canadian identity.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Great idea. The election that the Zalm won in BC (an election that the BC NDP thought it could win) he promised to lower the price of a case of beer.

jjuares

autoworker wrote:
Socialist Feminist wrote:

Debater wrote:

 

 Not to mention saying he is 'stupid', 'corrupt', 'fool' etc.

 

Justin calling guns "this important facet of Canadian identity" was stupid. Do you agree?

It's no dumber than maple syrup, beaver tails, and moose hunting. Personally, I think Justin should advocate for the return of stubby beer bottles-- a lost icon of Canadian identity.

 

What makes Justin's comments so stupid is that he takes an artifact, (ie guns) never associated with our mythology  and rather clumsily attempts to make them into something that is part of our national identity. First time I ever heard that-we have no constitutional  amendment. Does he know what country he lives in? It wasn't just pandering but rather stupid pandering at that.

blairz blairz's picture

I think we all get the point that lots of folks here don't like Justin Trudeau. So how do people feel about Joyce Murray? Or Marc Garneau?

Would either candidate make a difference to how you vote?

 

Brachina

lagatta wrote:

Trudeau speaking to students at McGill, Concordia and UdM: http://tinyurl.com/TrudeauStudents (in French, from La Presse). Mr Silver Spoon actually saying tuition fees here should rise considerably:

quote:

"M. Trudeau a aussi déclaré vouloir augmenter les taux d'inscription aux études supérieures, pour les faire passer de 50 à 70 pour cent".

Guess he doesn't want kids from the riding he represents getting a degree...

Also called for "at least" a 2/3rds majority for a referendum on sovereignty to be valid... http://tinyurl.com/Trudeau2-3rds

Wonder if he's going to (dare) speak at UQAM...

All I can say about Debater is that he will have to hone his debating skills. He attacked me for something much milder than "dirtbag". Not a good way to make friends and influence people.

So in other words increase tuition costs so you can pay me more to tell you to increase tuition fees!

Debater your right, I shouldn't have called Justin a Dirtbag, I was being too kind by half, Justin's vile, and gets worse by the day.

Brachina

blairz wrote:

I think we all get the point that lots of folks here don't like Justin Trudeau. So how do people feel about Joyce Murray? Or Marc Garneau?

Would either candidate make a difference to how you vote?

 

Marc Garneau's time as an Astronaught is neat, but if I wanted to vote for someone with thier head in the clouds I'd vote Tory :p

I don't trust Joyance, she made her career on an alliance against the NDP now she wants an alliance with the NDP. From someone else I might take that seriously, but I suspect opportunism and treachery here.

Not that it matters, this is a cornation, everyone with a head on thier shoulders knows it, the rest are filler so Justin can pretend he "earned the leadership".

This race is a complex joke on Canadians.

jjuares

Trudeau waded into the issue after being asked about the NDP's proposal to replace the Clarity Act with a bill that stipulates that a bare majority of 50 per cent plus one vote would be sufficient to trigger secession negotiations.

"We should at least have the same threshold needed to change the New Democratic Party's constitution, which is two-thirds," he said.

 

This is a little strange to say the least. Trudeau's idea of a clear majority is determined by the NDP constitution?

 

 Anyways he got blasted by Garneau for stating a number publicly. I find the clarity act somewhat surreal. One side determines what consitutes a win after the vote? I have never heard of such an absurd idea in any state or organization that purports to be democratic. Yet, many in the press and the public see this as a sancrosanct principle

 

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/garneau-blasts-rookie-mistake-by-trudeau-on-quebec-secession-question-192378921.html

felixr

Deborah Coyne is the least obnoxious candidate to me. At least she can articulate some vision.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Brachina wrote:

blairz wrote:

I think we all get the point that lots of folks here don't like Justin Trudeau. So how do people feel about Joyce Murray? Or Marc Garneau?

Would either candidate make a difference to how you vote?

 

Marc Garneau's time as an Astronaught is neat, but if I wanted to vote for someone with thier head in the clouds I'd vote Tory :p I don't trust Joyance, she made her career on an alliance against the NDP now she wants an alliance with the NDP. From someone else I might take that seriously, but I suspect opportunism and treachery here. Not that it matters, this is a cornation, everyone with a head on thier shoulders knows it, the rest are filler so Justin can pretend he "earned the leadership". This race is a complex joke on Canadians.

Brachina:

Nailed it!

felixr

Trudeau and the Liberal party are perfect for one another. Trudeau exactly represents what I see as the Liberal party today: the flake party.

6079_Smith_W

I'd consider any politician who honestly speaks her mind - regardless of politics - as more of a heavyweight than someone who just plays to the crowd. If that is the case here, I think it is a good thing - not because it is preferable to have your opponents be honest about bad policy, but because if you are ever in a position to have to deal with them, it is best to have an honest broker.

After all, we have enough panderers and crooks in the business as it is.

 

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

6079_Smith_W:

X2!

clambake

Garneau will apparently challenge Trudeau to a one-on-one debate. Boy, I hope he takes the bait

DSloth

clambake wrote:

Garneau will apparently challenge Trudeau to a one-on-one debate. Boy, I hope he takes the bait

Ha Ha, Justin may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer but I'm sure he's got at least one advisor who can add 2 + 2. 

jjuares wrote:

This is a little strange to say the least. Trudeau's idea of a clear majority is determined by the NDP constitution?

 

 Anyways he got blasted by Garneau for stating a number publicly. I find the clarity act somewhat surreal. One side determines what consitutes a win after the vote? I have never heard of such an absurd idea in any state or organization that purports to be democratic. Yet, many in the press and the public see this as a sancrosanct principle

 

Well Garneau at least gets the point that the Clarity Act is just empty wedge politics for the rest of Canada, they don't state a number because they know the Clarity Act is just a dead letter the day after a successful referendum when the PQ Premier declares independance. Trudeau actually telling Quebecers he doesn't give a shit if 65% of them vote for soveriegnty is an order of magnitude more dangerous to national unity. 

Socialist Feminist

blairz wrote:

I think we all get the point that lots of folks here don't like Justin Trudeau. So how do people feel about Joyce Murray? Or Marc Garneau?

Would either candidate make a difference to how you vote?

 

 

Murray and Garneau? Probably better than Justin. Because Justin is terrible.

Debater

jjuares wrote:

I find the clarity act somewhat surreal. One side determines what consitutes a win after the vote? I have never heard of such an absurd idea in any state or organization that purports to be democratic. Yet, many in the press and the public see this as a sancrosanct principle

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/garneau-blasts-rookie-mistake-by-trudeau-on-quebec-secession-question-192378921.html

Perhaps because The Clarity Act incorporates the legal principles from the Supreme Court reference on succession?  The Act simply states what the Supreme Court and international law state - that a part of a country cannot unilaterally separate without there being certain clear rules and requirements which are followed.  I guess you missed that.  Perhaps you should read the Supreme Court reference?

It isn't 'one side' determining anything - it is a way of stating that a Quebec referendum must be in accordance with legal and international law principles.  Up until now the PQ has felt that it can do as it pleases with no rules to govern it, although apparently that is okay with most on Rabble and in the NDP.

Pages