Liberal Party of Canada

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David Young

And there's been talk that he's going to be running as a Liberal in the next federal election.

He must be gaining experience when it comes to Liberals sucking up to the public trough!

 

Webgear

Brachina,

In my opinion this is just another Harper smear against a potential political threat. It is very difficult to break Treasury board rules while conducting (a move for which he is entitled upon release from the forces) to due to the levels of scrutinization that occurs at various levels of review.

There are some discussions on some of the military forums that I followed that the Access to Information Act may have broken privacy rights of the former General. Sensitive personal information may have been released.

Please note I despise the man personally, however I find it hard to believe he has done anything illegal.

Here are some links for people to read themselves:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits-relocation/toc-by+year.page

http://www.irp-pri.com/start/cf_members/

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits-relocation/2011-2012-directive-ch14.page

Webgear

Sorry double post.

wage zombie

Nice to see you back, Webgear.

sherpa-finn

Its not about "illegal". Its about feeding the 'entitled to entitlements' narrative that the CPC (and NDP) is trying to fix permanently to the Liberal brand.

What is particularly interesting is the willingness (determination) of the Conservatives to actively and openly press this case, with releases from Ministers, statements from party spokespeople, etc. The risk is that this may well be seen as attacking mutually agreed and committed benefits that military households reasonably expect at the end of a contract.  

Seems to me that this would be a good issue for the NDP to stand back from and simply let the Libs + Cons do the worst to one another.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

I think Leslie should release his move claim. If it was per CFAOs/QR&Os and DCBA regs, it would deflate this. This simply shows the system needs overhaul. Greetings Webgear!

NorthReport

Talk of Trudeau’s inexperience little more than Conservative pulp fiction 

http://www.ipolitics.ca/2014/02/17/talk-of-trudeaus-inexperience-little-...

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Duff Conacher must be on Trudeau's pay roll, "http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/duff-conacher/justin-trudeau-senate-reform_b_4803620.html?utm_hp_ref=canada-politics What the hell is going on with "progressive Candians"? How are they allowing themselves to be seduced by Prince Pretty Hair?

Webgear

http://www.ndp.ca/news/what-does-72000-relocation-costs-general-leslie-mean

Well another uninformed political statement, so much for taking the high ground NDP. Why don’t political parties in Canada research the issue at hand before make silly statements. This benefit is award to all CF/RCMP members as part of their severance packages.

Maybe the NDP politicians should look at their gold plated pensions and benefits packages before attacking the common CF member.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Webgear wrote:

http://www.ndp.ca/news/what-does-72000-relocation-costs-general-leslie-mean

Well another uninformed political statement, so much for taking the high ground NDP. Why don’t political parties in Canada research the issue at hand before make silly statements. This benefit is award to all CF/RCMP members as part of their severance packages.

Maybe the NDP politicians should look at their gold plated pensions and benefits packages before attacking the common CF member.

 

That is a completely avoidable unforced error.

Brachina

 Fuck the high ground, Dix took the high ground and found himself in gutter. Mercy is for your policies, not for battle tactics. I have no doubt the the former General has been as ruthless himself against his enemies, I feel no sympathy. 

 If we take out the General we damage Trudeau its that simple. 

 When an opportunity is presented you take it.

 Right now Justin is the greater threat to  Mulcair becoming Prime Minister, and this is a grand opportunity to embarrass him and his advisor/ future star candiate.

 

Webgear

Brachina,

At the end of the day, I think this issue will be used as another excuse to cut federal employees benefits and retirement packages.

The NDP has fallen into Harper's plan and the common federal employee will pay the price for this. Just be careful what you wish for. 

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

In my opinion, the real issue here is not even being discussed. Several sources have mentioned that the bulk of General Leslie's claim was for the real estate commission on the sale of the house he moved out of. For an mls listing, that is probably 6%, which would be $60K if the selling price were $1M. If that amount were excluded, nobody would be paying any attention. Also, this would be the same amount, whether Leslie moved across the street, or across the continent, so the distance of the move is irrelevant. I find it suprisingly generous that real estate commission is included in moving expenses, but if that is the normal procedure, then it is perfectly proper for Leslie to have accepted this benefit. It is rather disappointing that the NDP has joined with the Cons in this phony outrage over a man who was doing what anyone else in his positon would have done. It is legitimate to question whether this benefit is good policy, but not to pillory someone who is following the rules as they now are.

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

Webgear wrote:

Brachina,

At the end of the day, I think this issue will be used as another excuse to cut federal employees benefits and retirement packages.

The NDP has fallen into Harper's plan and the common federal employee will pay the price for this. Just be careful what you wish for. 

THIS!

DLivings

Michael Moriarity wrote:

For an mls listing, that is probably 6%, which would be $60K if the selling price were $1M. If that amount were excluded, nobody would be paying any attention.

A million dollar house - not bad...

Brachina

DLivings wrote:

Michael Moriarity wrote:

For an mls listing, that is probably 6%, which would be $60K if the selling price were $1M. If that amount were excluded, nobody would be paying any attention.

A million dollar house - not bad...

 

 Haha yeah its like another poor me millionaire. Cry me a river.

 And no this will not lead to more public service benifits being cut amoung the rank and file, but it might for top tier public servants like Generals and I have no problem with that. 

 Generals should not end up millionaires while ordinary soldiers struggle and vets suffer more still.

 And reading the NDPs reasoning is sound, this is unsually high compared to others of its kind. They give examples.

 Hopefully the General is damage enough by this that he becomes a liability to Trudeau.

Summer

laine lowe wrote:

Webgear wrote:

Brachina,

At the end of the day, I think this issue will be used as another excuse to cut federal employees benefits and retirement packages.

The NDP has fallen into Harper's plan and the common federal employee will pay the price for this. Just be careful what you wish for. 

THIS!

HEAR HEAR!  

IMO, if this was a benefit available to him, Leslie was reasonable in accepting it.  

It may be surprising to many, but real estate commissions are generally treated as moving expenses.  It is not unusual for employers who transfer employees to defray some or all of these costs.  They are also deductible for tax purposes (if you move for work or school).

If DND wants to renegotiate this benefit to exclude short-distance moves or to impose a cap on expenses, it should do so.  If the NDP wants to propose changes, it should do so.  But I don't like a system where benefits are available, yet we villainize people when they claim them.   

The Federal election is not the same as the BC election.  In that election, there were only two parties.  The Liberals attacked the NDP and the NDP did not attack back or really do enough to correct the record.  This is the not the Federal situation.  Federally, the Liberals are trying to distinguish themselves from the Cons and the NDP by being the feel-good party that plays fair.  The Cons, as we know, plays dirty.  The NDP should leave the dirty work to the Cons and keep their hands clean.  No one is attacking them right now.  I don't see how they benefit from piling on the Liberals.  If anything, it plays into the Liberal message and allows the Liberals to distinguish themselves from both parties.  

addictedtomyipod

Summer wrote:

laine lowe wrote:

Webgear wrote:

Brachina,

At the end of the day, I think this issue will be used as another excuse to cut federal employees benefits and retirement packages.

The NDP has fallen into Harper's plan and the common federal employee will pay the price for this. Just be careful what you wish for. 

THIS!

HEAR HEAR!  

IMO, if this was a benefit available to him, Leslie was reasonable in accepting it.  

It may be surprising to many, but real estate commissions are generally treated as moving expenses.  It is not unusual for employers who transfer employees to defray some or all of these costs.  They are also deductible for tax purposes (if you move for work or school).

If DND wants to renegotiate this benefit to exclude short-distance moves or to impose a cap on expenses, it should do so.  If the NDP wants to propose changes, it should do so.  But I don't like a system where benefits are available, yet we villainize people when they claim them.   

The Federal election is not the same as the BC election.  In that election, there were only two parties.  The Liberals attacked the NDP and the NDP did not attack back or really do enough to correct the record.  This is the not the Federal situation.  Federally, the Liberals are trying to distinguish themselves from the Cons and the NDP by being the feel-good party that plays fair.  The Cons, as we know, plays dirty.  The NDP should leave the dirty work to the Cons and keep their hands clean.  No one is attacking them right now.  I don't see how they benefit from piling on the Liberals.  If anything, it plays into the Liberal message and allows the Liberals to distinguish themselves from both parties.  

 

Bev Oda never thought there was anything wrong with her $16 glass of orange juice either.  If all benefits should be used to the max then every public servant better make sure they call in sick even it they aren't.  

Yes the Liberals have defined themselves as different.  They make sure they are entitled to their entitlements.

 

Unionist

addictedtomyipod wrote:

Bev Oda never thought there was anything wrong with her $16 glass of orange juice either.  If all benefits should be used to the max then every public servant better make sure they call in sick even it they aren't.  

Yes the Liberals have defined themselves as different.  They make sure they are entitled to their entitlements.

No offence, but the above could have been a Reform party talking point, without changing a single word. They would have obsessed over Bev's OJ, but certainly not over her real crimes - which the MSM and Harper and the Liberal Party and the NDP and you have all forgotten/forgiven.

As others have said, these irrelevant little non-episodes are used to prepare the ground to deprive real people of real entitlements. They are also used to cover up and excuse real crimes. Andrew Leslie overcharged for moving expenses? Really? How about charging him with invasion, occupation, and murder of the people of Afghanistan? Oh, that was ok?

What a pathetic and laughable farce.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture
TiradeFaction

Well, the author kind of has a point. Though I think he exaggerates Tommy Douglas's commitment to eugenics after he wrote his thesis. If I recall, when he was premier he never once tried to advance eugenic policies, despite the fact that both Alberta and BC had some enforced eugenic policies at the time.

thorin_bane

Unionist wrote:

addictedtomyipod wrote:

Bev Oda never thought there was anything wrong with her $16 glass of orange juice either.  If all benefits should be used to the max then every public servant better make sure they call in sick even it they aren't.  

Yes the Liberals have defined themselves as different.  They make sure they are entitled to their entitlements.

No offence, but the above could have been a Reform party talking point, without changing a single word. They would have obsessed over Bev's OJ, but certainly not over her real crimes - which the MSM and Harper and the Liberal Party and the NDP and you have all forgotten/forgiven.

As others have said, these irrelevant little non-episodes are used to prepare the ground to deprive real people of real entitlements. They are also used to cover up and excuse real crimes. Andrew Leslie overcharged for moving expenses? Really? How about charging him with invasion, occupation, and murder of the people of Afghanistan? Oh, that was ok?

What a pathetic and laughable farce.

ARe you still on here busy slandeing the NDP every chance you get..ok well see you all in a few months.

Unionist

thorin_bane wrote:

ARe you still on here busy slandeing the NDP every chance you get..

Whewww, I thought you were gonna lambaste me for slandering the Liberal Party.

Quote:
ok well see you all in a few months.

How shall we fill the time till then?

 

Brachina

 And yet the glass of orange juice did more damage then missing billions. 

 Should the Generals actions in Afganistan be held to account, were any possible war crimes more important then his moving expenses on a moral level? Yes.

 Is Afganistan going to be what takes the General down? No.

 

 The expsense claim could.

 This is how things work.

addictedtomyipod

Unionist wrote:

addictedtomyipod wrote:

Bev Oda never thought there was anything wrong with her $16 glass of orange juice either.  If all benefits should be used to the max then every public servant better make sure they call in sick even it they aren't.  

Yes the Liberals have defined themselves as different.  They make sure they are entitled to their entitlements.

No offence, but the above could have been a Reform party talking point, without changing a single word. They would have obsessed over Bev's OJ, but certainly not over her real crimes - which the MSM and Harper and the Liberal Party and the NDP and you have all forgotten/forgiven.

As others have said, these irrelevant little non-episodes are used to prepare the ground to deprive real people of real entitlements. They are also used to cover up and excuse real crimes. Andrew Leslie overcharged for moving expenses? Really? How about charging him with invasion, occupation, and murder of the people of Afghanistan? Oh, that was ok?

What a pathetic and laughable farce.

Do you always put words in people's mouths?

Brachina

 He does it all the time, its really annoying.

Unionist

addictedtomyipod wrote:

Do you always put words in people's mouths?

My post was intended to show how you (and you're in good company) focus on tiny sins and forget about big crimes. I pointed out that that was also the tactic of the Reform party - they used to attack the "entitlements" of MPs and yes, even Senators, in order to win some populist image, while preparing to attack their real enemy - the working people and poor.

Now, perhaps you could tell me which precise words I put in which people's mouths? Or did I misinterpret your post totally, and you don't really believe that Andrew Leslie's moving expense claim is something of importance?

As for Brachina, it's just a personal attack, so I won't grace it with even a request for clarification.

The NDP should get off its stupid focus on irrelevant issues that no one cares about - ATM fees, Senate abolition (I think they're finally getting the message on that one), Andrew Leslie's small-time greed - and decide whether it wants to be the party that it once was (very) long ago, pushing for social progress, equality, justice, and peace.

brian1966

Watched General Leslie's speech and press conference.

A tale of two stories.  The press conference was a complete disaster. he almost said he was entitled to his entitlements and then contradicted reports by not denying that in fact he was the one who approached the Tories.

This 'star' candidate has alot of work in front of him to become a politician.

http://looniepolitics.com/videos/andrew-leslie-press-conference-2014-lib...

 

NorthReport

Much todo about nothing.

What a lot of nonsense over a glass of OJ which cost all of $16.

Seriously how much do pople think you are going to pay for freshly-squeezed OJ at a high end hotel? 

Oda got a bargain, as I would expected her to have been charged $20-$25.

NorthReport

Conservative, NDP attacks fail to land as Liberals convene in Montreal

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canada-politics/conservatives-ndp-attacks...

NorthReport

The Liberals have rode to power many times over the national unity issue. IF the PQ forms another majority government, will the Liberals ride that horse to power once again?

 

Justin Trudeau gives Liberal convention red meat rhetoric on Senate reform

Federal Liberal leader Justin Trudeau delivers his closing address to delegates on day three of the party's biennial convention in Montreal, Saturday.

Federal Liberal leader Justin Trudeau delivers his closing address to delegates on day three of the party's biennial convention in Montreal, Saturday. (Graham Hughes/Canadian Press)

Trudeau said Mulcair has out and out promised to open the constitution to address Senate reform.

Trudeau says Senator Mike Duffy is not worth risking another Meech Lake-style constitutional crisis over.

 

Trudeau says Senator Mike Duffy is not worth risking another Meech Lake-style constitutional crisis over.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/justin-trudeau-gives-liberal-convention-...

Brachina

 Trudeau will try to use national unity, but Mulcair is prepared for it and come debate time Mulcair will destroy Justin. Mulcair knows that the Liberals have tried to exploit national disunity to thier advantage. Mulcair also knows that the NDP dealt the bloc a massive blow while in compareson the bloc thrived under the Liberals. The PQ want a federal liberal win because the Libs love baiting Quebecers which helps seperatism and the PQ

.

Brachina
DaveW

Went to convention centre today to hang around, but no TV of live speech for Trudeau at 3,

At NDP convention there last March, I had asked what they charge for an observer pass, $800 the base rate ; Libs had no walk-in rate for civilians, either.

No celebs in view, mostly in-house votes for membership secretary etc, including one hilariously mistranslated candidate pamphlet. No policy docs in view. In short, move along, nothing to see...

the Globe take

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/five-most-important-moments...

 

NorthReport

The Liberal's convention was timed precisely to horn in on the Olympic euphoria. Pathetic, showing that their class is in their ass, but so typical of the Paul Martin cronies who are now running the show for Trudeau.

Brachina

 They can dlist nothing, that's privincial responsiblity. But they can butcher transferes which will push provinces to dlist sevices.

Unionist

Excellent article. Thanks, Brachina. It's Liberal aggression and warmongering which should be of concern whenever Andrew Leslie's name is uttered. That belongs on the NDP web site.

However, here's their latest gem:

Quote:

Yesterday Liberals confirmed to journalists that General Leslie won’t be paying the money back, and the Liberal Party isn’t asking him to.

How does General Leslie’s pork barrelling compare to Conservative pork barrelling?

$72,000 will get you:

  • 665 nights in the Savoy for Bev Oda
  • 4500 glasses of Conservative orange juice
  • 405 days of travel by Pamela Wallin

 Canadians deserve better than replacing Conservative entitlement with Liberal entitlement.

Still not a word about Leslie's war crimes. Just his (apparently perfectly lawful) relocation.

"Pork barreling". Yeah, elect us, and we'll clean up all this civil service overspending. We're not your grandparents' NDP!

 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Pierre C yr wrote:

The only thing we got out of this convention is they want to legalize assisted suicide along with marijuana and spend 1% of GDP on infrastructure (a long standing promise of the NDP is to spend a lot more on infrastructure) but no plans on how to pay for it (the NDP will reverse an unnecessary tory tax cut on large corporations that are flush with 5.7 trillion$ in cash that is doing nothing).

When you hear someone talk about absolutely no tax increases even on the richest Canadians or foreign companies wmaking a good living here know it means deficit spending or programs cuts. The only change I see here is a lot less of the usual run on the left and rule from the right. That tells me they will rule on the right even more than usual. Get ready to take out and polish those maxed out cc's if you need health care Canada. Lets see what else they can delist from public healthcare.

 

 

 

Legal marijuana would generate enough revenue to pay for alot of programs and initiatives.(infrastructure,health care,etc...maybe even tax breaks )

The PLC is on the right track by endorsing legal marijuana and assisted suicide.

Brian Glennie

I'm kind of dreading (get it?) the part of the Leader's debate that will be focussed on legal marijuana. For forty years I thought the NDP was offering an alternative to the war on drugs but now that the time is at hand, Tom is calling to reconvene the Ledain Commission. Colorado's projecting tax revenues of $135M for just the first three months they've had their program in place. Trudeau's going to dangle all that money in front of people and they're going to just swoon.

NorthReport
alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Oh goody...an article from the right wing Sun slamming Trudeau...Quelle surprise

Brachina

 The star is having a liberal love in with like half a dozen articles on there site about the Liberals and thier convention and what not. It makes me want to puke and I lose even more respect for the star over it.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Just remember, Alan, you  better hope they are right about revenue. We are talking about yet another type of "user tax", that exempts the wealthy from carrying thier fair share and works as along as people don't start to lay off Pot, as they did cigarettes. This is a diversion. I don't cheer anything that allows the wealthy to avoid paying their fair share, and instead, relies on the weakness of others to ensure governments have sufficient revenues. And one more thing, how do you ACTUALLY KNOW the Libs won't cut taxes even more using this "new revenue" as an excuse? The fact is, you DON'T. Yeah, that's a REALLY modern approach to governance, another sin tax! Great idea.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Arthur Cramer wrote:

Just remember, Alan, you  better hope they are right about revenue. We are talking about yet another type of "user tax", that exempts the wealthy from carrying thier fair share and works as along as people don't start to lay off Pot, as they did cigarettes. This is a diversion. I don't cheer anything that allows the wealthy to avoid paying their fair share, and instead, relies on the weakness of others to ensure governments have sufficient revenues. And one more thing, how do you ACTUALLY KNOW the Libs won't cut taxes even more using this "new revenue" as an excuse? The fact is, you DON'T. Yeah, that's a REALLY modern approach to governance, another sin tax! Great idea.

Well,AC...You're right,I don't know what the Liberals would practice.

But the fact is marijuana legalization would save millions in police,courts and jail fees and generate millions more in new revenue.

This is a bad idea?

To my knowledge,services are cut over and over again because the government cannot find new revenue and will be damned to raise taxes.

How do you suppose the government pay for services without raising taxes or calling in all the corporate taxes?

Sin tax on LEGAL marijuana? Excellent idea!

Brachina

 The liberals are liers, don't get sucked into the con job. Weed will never get legalized under them, it will eventually under the NDP after a scientific study. I for one support science, and Mulcair's idea of decriminalization is very close to legalization and would generate revenue in taxes.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Brachina wrote:

 The liberals are liers, don't get sucked into the con job. Weed will never get legalized under them, it will eventually under the NDP after a scientific study. I for one support science, and Mulcair's idea of decriminalization is very close to legalization and would generate revenue in taxes.

The studies have been over since 1971....There's nothing else to debate.

Sorry,but we've talked enough about it...It's legal in 2 states and many other states have decriminalized it...In the next couple years it will be legal in other states.

The time is now ...Sadly,the NDP is missing the bus.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

"The time is now ...Sadly,the NDP is missing the bus."

Oh brother, spare me.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

I never thought I'd see the day, but I have. All of sudden Liberals are Keynsians; they're trying to be NDPers. Why don't they just join the party. What a farce.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Arthur Cramer wrote:

"The time is now ...Sadly,the NDP is missing the bus."

Oh brother, spare me.

No,spare ME,brother.

The NDP wants more 'studies'?

Not good enough...and if you think prohibition isn't a fascist tool to suppress the populace (especially minorities and the poor),you need to wake the fuck up.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

"How do you suppose the government pay for services without raising taxes or calling in all the corporate taxes?"

You're distorting my words. What I said is why need to tax the wealthy. This proposal simply allows the wealthy to continue to not pay their fair share. THAT is the real issue. Le Dauphin doesn't think he or his pals should pay tax and he's COUNTING on sin taxes to carry the load. That is a 19th century idea. We are fighting the same wars all over again, as if progressive taxation is a bad thing. What's next, tariffs? The issue is that the wealthy have had a free ride since 1980 and it is time for them to pay the bill for their free run at the expense of others. This is a feint by the Libs; its another way to help the elites actually carry their share of the load. OK, fine. Lets have the discussion. My guess is if we have a truly honest discussion about what is going on here, that Canadians will see this for what it is, and hand Le Dauphin a good swife in his proveribal you know what?

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