Liberal Party of Canada

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Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

alan smithee wrote:

Arthur Cramer wrote:

Just remember, Alan, you  better hope they are right about revenue. We are talking about yet another type of "user tax", that exempts the wealthy from carrying thier fair share and works as along as people don't start to lay off Pot, as they did cigarettes. This is a diversion. I don't cheer anything that allows the wealthy to avoid paying their fair share, and instead, relies on the weakness of others to ensure governments have sufficient revenues. And one more thing, how do you ACTUALLY KNOW the Libs won't cut taxes even more using this "new revenue" as an excuse? The fact is, you DON'T. Yeah, that's a REALLY modern approach to governance, another sin tax! Great idea.

Well,AC...You're right,I don't know what the Liberals would practice.

But the fact is marijuana legalization would save millions in police,courts and jail fees and generate millions more in new revenue.

This is a bad idea?

To my knowledge,services are cut over and over again because the government cannot find new revenue and will be damned to raise taxes.

How do you suppose the government pay for services without raising taxes or calling in all the corporate taxes?

Sin tax on LEGAL marijuana? Excellent idea!

"How do you suppose the government pay for services without raising taxes or calling in all the corporate taxes?"

You're purposelly distorting my words.

What I said is why need to tax the wealthy. This proposal simply allows the wealthy to continue to not pay their fair share. THAT is the real issue. Le Dauphin doesn't think he or his pals should pay tax and he's COUNTING on sin taxes to carry the load. That is a 19th century idea. We are fighting the same wars all over again, as if progressive taxation is a bad thing. What's next, tariffs?

The issue is that the wealthy have had a free ride since 1980 and it is time for them to pay the bill for their free run at the expense of others. This is a feint by the Libs; its another way to help the elites actually carry their share of the load. OK, fine. Lets have the discussion. My guess is if we have a truly honest discussion about what is going on here, that Canadians will see this for what it is, and hand Le Dauphin a good swife in his proveribal you know what.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

AC...None of the parties...Not the Cons,the Libs or the NDP is going to tax the wealthy.

They will continue to cut taxes to corporations because this is the New World of austerity and plutocracy...(but you already know that,or you should)

Explain how decriminalization would work..I highly doubt you'd see the government implement a nudge nudge wink wink Dutch policy.

How could it possibly be a better system than legalization?

And BTW,taxation and regul;ation is fine...But the bottom line is the days of people's lives being ruined for possessing or even growing a PLANT would be over.

And that would be a HUGE victory for civil rights.

wage zombie

alan smithee wrote:

Explain how decriminalization would work..I highly doubt you'd see the government implement a nudge nudge wink wink Dutch policy.

The best way decriminalization would work would be to put it in the hands of the provinces.  I'm not sure how likely this is to the be the Mulcair's take on it though.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

wage zombie wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

Explain how decriminalization would work..I highly doubt you'd see the government implement a nudge nudge wink wink Dutch policy.

The best way decriminalization would work would be to put it in the hands of the provinces.  I'm not sure how likely this is to the be the Mulcair's take on it though.

I've always liked the idea of decriminalizing it federally and then giving the power over to the provinces.

But when we start talking about transfering power to the provinces and diminishing the role of the federal government,some will liken that with the GOP ideology.

My main arguement is that the Liberals are far more ahead of this issue than the NDP...The 'more studies' approach is complete horse shit.

wage zombie

I agree the "more studies" approach is awful.

I really hope the NDP will have more to offer in this area than the status quo.  Trudeau could win the youth vote on that alone.

Decriminalization as "let the provinces decide" was Niki Ashton's policy in the last leadership campaign.  I think it was the best one and am really hoping to see it bring pitched.  Good policy and good politics, the best way to deal with a wedge issue.

For many people "more studies are needed" = "drug warrior".  Or at least not prepared to stand up for you.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

"

And BTW,taxation and regul;ation is fine...But the bottom line is the days of people's lives being ruined for possessing or even growing a PLANT would be over.

And that would be a HUGE victory for civil rights."

You'll get no argument from me.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

I'm glad we can agree on something,AC

Pierre C yr

The only thing we got out of this convention is they want to legalize assisted suicide along with marijuana and spend 1% of GDP on infrastructure (a long standing promise of the NDP is to spend a lot more on infrastructure) but no plans on how to pay for it (the NDP will reverse an unnecessary tory tax cut on large corporations that are flush with 5.7 trillion$ in cash that is doing nothing).

When you hear someone talk about absolutely no tax increases even on the richest Canadians or foreign companies making a good living here you know it means deficit spending or programs cuts. The only change I see here is a lot less of the usual run on the left and rule from the right. That tells me they feel safer about havign a mroe right wing message and will rule on the right even more than usual. Get ready to take out and polish those maxed out cc's if you need health care Canada. Lets see what else they can delist from public healthcare.

 

 

Pierre C yr

alan smithee wrote:

Pierre C yr wrote:

The only thing we got out of this convention is they want to legalize assisted suicide along with marijuana and spend 1% of GDP on infrastructure (a long standing promise of the NDP is to spend a lot more on infrastructure) but no plans on how to pay for it (the NDP will reverse an unnecessary tory tax cut on large corporations that are flush with 5.7 trillion$ in cash that is doing nothing).

When you hear someone talk about absolutely no tax increases even on the richest Canadians or foreign companies wmaking a good living here know it means deficit spending or programs cuts. The only change I see here is a lot less of the usual run on the left and rule from the right. That tells me they will rule on the right even more than usual. Get ready to take out and polish those maxed out cc's if you need health care Canada. Lets see what else they can delist from public healthcare.

 

 

 

Legal marijuana would generate enough revenue to pay for alot of programs and initiatives.(infrastructure,health care,etc...maybe even tax breaks )

The PLC is on the right track by endorsing legal marijuana and assisted suicide.

 

Ive read its about a billion a year in revenue to the gov from a marijuana industry. Its not nearly enough to pay for what needs to get done.

 

1% of GDP to infrastructure is about 16 billion a year alone. Wheres the money for education and health and 'helping the middle class' gonna come from?

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Pierre C yr wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

Pierre C yr wrote:

The only thing we got out of this convention is they want to legalize assisted suicide along with marijuana and spend 1% of GDP on infrastructure (a long standing promise of the NDP is to spend a lot more on infrastructure) but no plans on how to pay for it (the NDP will reverse an unnecessary tory tax cut on large corporations that are flush with 5.7 trillion$ in cash that is doing nothing).

When you hear someone talk about absolutely no tax increases even on the richest Canadians or foreign companies wmaking a good living here know it means deficit spending or programs cuts. The only change I see here is a lot less of the usual run on the left and rule from the right. That tells me they will rule on the right even more than usual. Get ready to take out and polish those maxed out cc's if you need health care Canada. Lets see what else they can delist from public healthcare.

 

 

 

Legal marijuana would generate enough revenue to pay for alot of programs and initiatives.(infrastructure,health care,etc...maybe even tax breaks )

The PLC is on the right track by endorsing legal marijuana and assisted suicide.

 

Ive read its about a billion a year in revenue to the gov from a marijuana industry. Its not nearly enough to pay for what needs to get done.

 

1% of GDP to infrastructure is about 16 billion a year alone. Wheres the money for education and health and 'helping the middle class' gonna come from?

Maybe we can pay MPs the minimum hourly wage and take away their pensions...lol

Seriously,I have no answer to that.

It's not as if the wealthy is going to pay for it.

My guess is more attacks on the social safety net.

Pierre C yr

And by a billion a year to government I was being very 'liberal' in my numbers... It could be a lot less than that.

 

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/companies-and-industries/marijuana-inc/

 

“This market is quite sizable,” says UBC business professor Werner Antweiler. The industry is likely larger than the study suggests, he adds, due to the export of “B.C. bud” to the south and east. Other estimates that factor in the value of cannabis exports as well as internal consumption pin the size of the B.C. industry at between $2 billion and $7 billion. It’s safe to say that Canadians generally spend at least $3 billion a year on cannabis products.

Canadians bought $9.1 billion worth of beer in 2011 according to Statistics Canada. That means an illegal drug is already one-third the size of a legal industry that benefits from national advertising and a vaunted spot in Canadian culture. When marijuana finally becomes legal, who will score a piece of the action?

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

When I think marijuana legalization I think new industry,new business,new revenue and new jobs.

It's not just simple taxation...It's licensing,green houses,coffee shops,hemp farming,reviving our textile industry,etc..

I'm sure we're talking a good $3 billion (I'm pulling that number out of my ass) but when you factor in new business,industry and jobs,the potential is definately up there.

It may not be the needed number of $16 billion but for me,this issue is about more than mere dollars and cents.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

I will tell you what worries me. Its that the Trudeau Liberals will use this to say they are funding infrastructure as they promised, without ever being forced to address the fact they are under funding the infrastructue renewal we need.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

That's the problem with the Liberals.

Judging by their track record,it's very difficult to trust them.

mark_alfred

I missed watching the convention.  Did the Liberals come up with anything on carbon pricing?  IE, a carbon tax or cap and trade?

NorthReport

This is what Conservative and Liberal policies lead to. Go figure. The only difference between these folks and the poor is the middle class still have a good credit rating. 

Canada's middle class 'mortgaging its future' with deb

tCanadian dream 'a myth more than a reality,' internal government report says

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canada-s-middle-class-mortgaging-its-futur...

NorthReport

Sure Trudeau is ready for prime time.

Trudeau should 'disavow' joke about Russian intervention in Ukraine

 

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trudeau-should-disavow-joke-about-russian...

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/02/24/bill-morneau-cd-howe-liberal-convention_n_4848558.html?ref=topbar The Liberals really are the Candian version of American "Third Way", Dems. And, the simillarity between Obama and the way Trudeau is trying to paint himself, is, frightening!

Brachina

http://ww2.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/2014/...

 

 The nationalpost take on Justin Trudeau's comments. No wonder his handlers try and keep Trudeau from improvising, he has a great love of the taste of his own feet, because he keeps shoving them into his own mouth.

 I agree with NR not ready for Prime Time and I might reelavutate weather I think he's a bimbo or not.

 I wonder if Justin while make a joke about North Korea or Syria next. 

 

 Between Harper and Justin I will be amazed if we have good relations with any other nations by 2015.

DaveW

The con wannabe posters on media comment boards are road-testing 'Hope and Dope' as the Cons angle on Trudeau campaign...

mark_alfred

This provides a clue as to why Trudeau suddenly decided to cut the Liberal senators from caucus:  Ex-Liberal senators' expenses missing key details.

NorthReport

when has saying dumb stuff ever been an impediment to political office? 

http://warrenkinsella.com/2014/02/in-tuesdays-sun-when-has-saying-dumb-s...

NorthReport

Ex-Liberal Senators' Expenses Missing Key Details

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/02/25/senate-expenses-liberal-canada_n...

NorthReport
NorthReport

Moron!

Justin Trudeau apologizes after drawing fire for ‘silly’ Olympic hockey-Ukraine joke

 

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/02/25/justin-trudeau-apologizes-after-...

NorthReport

ON JUDGMENT, AND TRUDEAU’S APOLOGY – AND YOU, DEAR READER  Laughing

http://warrenkinsella.com/2014/02/on-judgment-and-trudeaus-apology-and-y...

DLivings

NorthReport wrote:

ON JUDGMENT, AND TRUDEAU’S APOLOGY – AND YOU, DEAR READER  Laughing

http://warrenkinsella.com/2014/02/on-judgment-and-trudeaus-apology-and-y...

My favorite part of this page is the scrapping in the reader's response to Kinsella's pronouncement.

Brachina
DLivings

Thnaks for the post Brachina...    rather astounding the little attention being paid by the federal Liberals to French Canadian partners in ther party...  this is a significant departure from the past...  and a huge weakness.

NorthReport
NorthReport

Please keep supporting the Senate Mr Trudeau.

Senator Colin Kenny faces new harassment allegations

Liberal-appointed senator allegedly an 'aggressive stalker,' tried to kiss, grope women

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/senator-colin-kenny-faces-new-harassment...

DLivings

NorthReport wrote:

Please keep supporting the Senate Mr Trudeau.

Senator Colin Kenny faces new harassment allegations

Liberal-appointed senator allegedly an 'aggressive stalker,' tried to kiss, grope women

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/senator-colin-kenny-faces-new-harassment...

One more reason for Justin Lite to distance himself from his recent senators...   Run, run as fast as you can...  it won't be fast enough!

Brachina

http://drdawgsblawg.ca/2014/02/liberal-values.shtml

 

 Justin screwed over fire fighters., I mean like seriously people risk thier lives to save other people, and instead of having thier backs he stabbed them in thier backs. And he sided with Tories to do so. Justin is worse then a Bimbo. After all you be not smart and still be a good person. No Justin is a scumbag, and he just revealed his true colours.

mark_alfred

Kenney and Trudeau trade barbs over whether the middle class is struggling more now than in the past.  link.  They each cite different reports.  Kenney cites a StatsCan report that shows people doing better now than 2005, whereas Trudeau cites a report from Kenney's department that takes a longer view (from 1993), stating that long term trends are worrying. 

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

1993 eh? What happened then? Oh yeah, the PAUL MARTIN BUDGETS! And who was in charge until 2005; oh yeah, the Liberals. These guys are pathetic.

NorthReport

Congratulations Justin, as the CBC has been salivating waiting to announce the new addition to your family

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/justin-trudeau-welcomes-baby-son-hadrian...

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

The elusive NDP-Liberal coalition: When one door opens, the same door closes     iPolitics Updated, http://www.ipolitics.ca/2014/02/25/mulcair-leaves-door-open-on-future-coalition-doubts-trudeau-is-game/

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Liberal MP Marc Garneau said in an interview that if NDP MPs need to be told not to give to a sovereigntist party, “it is probably because there was a concern that some of them may not be 100 per cent committed to federalism.” Yellow Dog Much? These guys are dispicable!

What's next, "are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party"?

Truly disgusting!

janfromthebruce

And than stones were thrown at the Liberal glasshouse

David Akin ‏@davidakin 2h

Leandre Gervais was #LPC candidate in 2011 in QC. Gave money to PQ in 2002 and 2003 cc @AlthiaRaj

David Akin ‏@davidakin 2h

#LPC 2011 candidate in Berthier-Maskinonge, Gaudent, gave $ to PQ in 2000, 2001 — and in 2013 after losing to @RE_Brosseau cc @althiaraj

David Akin ‏@davidakin 18m

After losing #elxn41 in Beauport-Limoilou, #LPC candidate Lorraine Chartier gave $1,000 to Quebec Solidaire. #cdnpoli #qc2014

David Akin ‏@davidakin 2h

So #LPC isn’t “separatist-free” in Quebec. But @AlthiaRaj general thesis quite: None of the major “federalist” parties are.

Had to do with this yellow tabloid like journalism

HuffPost Canada ‏@HuffPostCanada 2h

NDP MPs have donated to Quebec separatist parties, but so did these Tory MPs, @althiaraj reports http://huff.to/PytggQ

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Thanks Jan!

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

This is the new "Progressive Trudeau Liberal"?

 

PrairieDemocrat15

Arthur Cramer wrote:

This is the new "Progressive Trudeau Liberal"?

 

He did refer to Christy Clark's upset victory in BC as a "win for the middle class," (something to that effect), so this comes as no surprise.

JT is a right-wing Liberal in the mould of John Manley.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

PrairieDemocrat15 wrote:

Arthur Cramer wrote:

This is the new "Progressive Trudeau Liberal"?

 

He did refer to Christy Clark's upset victory in BC as a "win for the middle class," (something to that effect), so this comes as no surprise.

JT is a right-wing Liberal in the mould of John Manley.

Then what about these Libs on HP; what are they? Are the progressives and duped by him, or righties? Who are these people posting on HP. I get a lot of them saying have to beat Harper. Are they really so stupid that they can't see Trudeau for what he is. COuld you or someone else please explain this to me? I just do not get it at all.

DLivings

Arm chair perspective (little polling evidence, really just watching the ebb and flow in the polls)

The Liberals (black cats) prospects bump up because some of those that voted for the Conservatives (white cats) last time are ready for a different colour of cat.  The Liberal (black cat) prospects are further inflated by those not so committed orange wave (ndp) voters who have their wet finger in the air to figure out which way the wind seems to be blowing regarding the best way to get the white cats (Conservatives) out of power.

Let's remind ourselves and our neighbours that there's little difference between the white cats and the black cats.  This is just as true today as it was historically.  The best prospect to chart a new course?  The orange wave in 2015.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

DLivings wrote:

Arm chair perspective (little polling evidence, really just watching the ebb and flow in the polls)

The Liberals (black cats) prospects bump up because some of those that voted for the Conservatives (white cats) last time are ready for a different colour of cat.  The Liberal (black cat) prospects are further inflated by those not so committed orange wave (ndp) voters who have their wet finger in the air to figure out which way the wind seems to be blowing regarding the best way to get the white cats (Conservatives) out of power.

Let's remind ourselves and our neighbours that there's little difference between the white cats and the black cats.  This is just as true today as it was historically.  The best prospect to chart a new course?  The orange wave in 2015.

LOVE this!

JKR

Arthur Cramer wrote:

PrairieDemocrat15 wrote:

Arthur Cramer wrote:

This is the new "Progressive Trudeau Liberal"?

 

He did refer to Christy Clark's upset victory in BC as a "win for the middle class," (something to that effect), so this comes as no surprise.

JT is a right-wing Liberal in the mould of John Manley.

Then what about these Libs on HP; what are they? Are the progressives and duped by him, or righties? Who are these people posting on HP. I get a lot of them saying have to beat Harper. Are they really so stupid that they can't see Trudeau for what he is. COuld you or someone else please explain this to me? I just do not get it at all.

I think there are a lot of reasons many people put both the Liberals and NDP on the "centre-left" although they put the NDP further to the left. Provincial NDP governments in Manitoba, Nova Scotia, Saskatchewan, BC, and Ontario have often behaved as Liberals do. Historically federally and in Ontario, the NDP and Liberal have also cooperated extensively with each other during minority situations. And Liberal governments also established Canada's major social programs like medicare, CPP, GIS, etc.... Many progressives also supported the Kelowna Accord and the national day care program the Liberals almost established with the provinces a decade ago.

A lot of people see little difference between the NDP and Liberals when they see situations like the Liberal government in Ontario attempting to raise it's minimum wage to $11 while the neighbouring NDP government in Manitoba seems to have no problem sticking with a minimum wage at $10.45.

If the NDP wanted to impress progressives, the NDP government in Manitoba would be leading the way in showing Canadians the superiority of social democracy. Instead the Manitoba NDP seems to be on their way to losing government as the Nova Scotia NDP did just a few months ago. NDP governments have had the opportunity to show how they are different from Liberal governments but they do not seem to have managed to do this. Maybe instead of blaming Canadians and progressives for not supporting the NDP over the Liberals, the NDP should be blamed for not showing Canadians and progressives that they are significantly different from the Liberals?

CanadaOrangeCat

Saying you want John Tory to win is a safe bet, seeing as he won't win. Enough people will vote for Olivia Chow to make sure he doesn't. The righties have pretty well given Rob Ford the shoo-in by splitting off the anti-ford rightist vote. One must not forget that Rob Ford attended the Liberal picnic in Downsview, and it was just as much urban Liberals as driving Conservatives who got Ford in. There has always been a Liberal dimension to the Ford thing. Bad blood with David Miller, hatred of Smitherman because of the Green Energy Act thing, and above all, McGuinty. McGuinty was never popular within the LPO especially after he jacked gas taxes.

The LPC needs to put down the NDP. Chow as an NDP mayor of Toronto would be a pain in a Liberal government's neck. It would also increase the NDP power base and infrastructure in Toronto. Destroying Chow's chances is probably much more important to Trudeau than leaving Ford in there. Toronto Liberals have elephantine memories. They will not forget the Bell's Palsy ads against Chretien, and that John Tory was the campaign manager. Conservative voters do not care about John Tory any more. This is a message to vote for Rob Ford.

White Cat White Cat's picture

DLivings wrote:

The Liberals (black cats) prospects bump up because some of those that voted for the Conservatives (white cats) last time are ready for a different colour of cat.  

I think Tommy Douglas refers to the Liberals as the white cats, representing false change. The black cats pass laws that make it easier for them (businessmen) to eat the mice (exploit the people.) Then the white cats promise change, but bring in more of the same.

Trudeau is the quintessential white cat leader. You have to go back a century before finding a Liberal leader as right-wing as he is. It's up to us in the social media to make sure voters become disillusioned with him before the election, not after... 

YouTube - The Story of Mouseland

robbie_dee

DLivings wrote:

Let's remind ourselves and our neighbours that there's little difference between the white cats and the black cats.  This is just as true today as it was historically.  The best prospect to chart a new course?  The orange wave in 2015.

Tabby Cats! Wink

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Manitob, Doer. That is where it started. Doer was a Lib who as MGEU brought Down the Pawley Govt and gave us Filmon, and a privatizied MTS. The NDP has absolutely done much to confuse people about the difference that exists between us and the Libs. I completely agree with a lot of you onn t his.

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