Liberals BREAK PROMISE On Marijuana Legalization

61 posts / 0 new
Last post
alan smithee alan smithee's picture

The problem is QS is in no position to attain power. I really hate to say that but it's true.

But what QS CAN do is push the issue and shame the government into chilling out (sorry for the pun) about cannabis. That doesn't look likely. The top 3 parties are a bunch of bozos. Each of them are having a temper tantrum over legal cannabis. I really believe Legault will use the nonwithstanding clause and block legal cannabis in Quebec,period. It wouldn't surprise me.

It's not like the feds are giving people the right to make bombs in their residence. I really wish we had a rational and progressive government in power. Sadly,it looks like we're going to end up with something worse than we already have.

progressive17 progressive17's picture

Like Toronto and Vancouver, Montreal is largely gerrymandered out of its proper political influence both federally and provincially. You can have a riding in Montreal with 100,000 people and a riding in rural Quebec with 40,000. If you can stomach it, turn on the free ASS-NAT channel on your cable TV. Between the extremely boring broadcasts of committee hearings they have these nicely done little vignettes for each constituency in Quebec. They include a nice picture and a profile on the MNA and their constituency.

In Montreal we are the icky progressives, liberals and non-white people who represent a threat to the extremely conservative mindset of Catholic-fascist rural idiocy. Despite the fact that we in Montreal pay most of Quebec's bills.

Any politician who wishes to do well in Quebec must pander to these votes. 

If Canada were a truly democratic nation, urban areas would have 80% of the ridings. The discussion about recreational marijuana would have been over in 1971.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

progressive17 wrote:

If Canada were a truly democratic nation, urban areas would have 80% of the ridings. The discussion about recreational marijuana would have been over in 1971.

+1 ​  I agree with you 100%.

And you're right about rural Quebec. It's no coincidence that fascism,bigotry,uninformed lunacy runs wild in the regions..Including Quebec City.

Notice that when there is a fascist parade in Montreal, The opposition of  these parades dwarfs them. They're not welcome here.

And it is a joke. The urban areas should steer the ship. If it wasn't for urban regions and Montreal,the ship would have sank years ago.

Pondering

alan smithee wrote:

The problem is QS is in no position to attain power. I really hate to say that but it's true.

But what QS CAN do is push the issue and shame the government into chilling out (sorry for the pun) about cannabis. That doesn't look likely. The top 3 parties are a bunch of bozos. Each of them are having a temper tantrum over legal cannabis. I really believe Legault will use the nonwithstanding clause and block legal cannabis in Quebec,period. It wouldn't surprise me.

It's not like the feds are giving people the right to make bombs in their residence. I really wish we had a rational and progressive government in power. Sadly,it looks like we're going to end up with something worse than we already have.

Not for long. Reality will intrude. The most permissive provinces will have the most success in transforming the illegal market into a legal one and reaping the benefits of taxation with no rise in car accidents etc. They will have increased tourism. 

The fines they intend to give out for home grown will not make up for the losses Quebec will incur by being so restrictive. Someone will probably fight it in the courts. A Quebec court could rule against the restrictions. Even if that doesn't happen New Brunswick is right next door and they are actively wooing producers. Ontario is being stupid. I'm guessing BC will be the most progressive. 

This level of law is inforced by local law enforcement. Municipal police in Montreal take direction from City Hall on what to priorize. 

So far the war on drugs has been an abysmal failure. There is no reason laws will suddenly become more effective after legalization. Politicans are counting on people finding it so much easier to go a legal shop or order online that the illegal market will just dry up. Not going to happen this way. People are very comfortable with existing channels. People purchase from friends and relatives and co-workers so it won't necessarily be easier to go to a shop. Even people who have bar connections will continue going to those bars. The legal system will have to be better than the so-called "black market". 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Pondering wrote:

 Even people who have bar connections will continue going to those bars. The legal system will have to be better than the so-called "black market". 

Actually,who's going to bars for pot? They sell coke at the bars.

I have a reliable connection but it's not the point. I should be able to buy my 'marijuana' or hashish as easily as I can go buy a case of beer. And legalized,it will obviously be regulated which means I know what I'm smoking.

And legal cannabis WILL kill the b lack market's monopoly on cannabis because quite honestly,who wants to deal with shady individuals for their stock?

I can't just buy a gram of cannabis. I have to buy an 8th or a half or a whole ounce. Legal weed in Québec is supposed to sell at $8 a gram. It will not be worth it for most black market entrepreneurs to sell their smoke at $5 a gram.

And as I said. Legal and regulated it should be as available as a case a beer,a bottle of liquor or a bottle of wine. Ideally,stores that will sell cannabis will have different strains and potencies for the customer to choose from. If trhat's the case,legalization will be a HUGE success.

Sadly as I alluded in a previous post. Don't count your chickens before they hatch. Québec wants to fight the feds for homegrown cannabis. If things work out as they appear to be,a CAQ majority government will use the nonwithstanding clause to keep cannabis illegal in Québec. Mark my words. Provinces that have a good strategy,who will follow the Colorado model for example,will see a huge increase in tax revenue,tourism and jobs,jobs,jobs for real. Too many fools can't see what's clearly the right thing to do. The populace of such provinces will suffer.

We can talk price,we can talk availability,we can talk choices and quality and we can even talk jobs. But THE most important piece of this puzzle is killing a law that the federal government has publicly acknowledged an unjust law and regardless of whether you can grow your cannabis at home or a lack of availability,the most important issue is that senseless arrests,convictions,criminal records and possible jail time for cannabis will be OVER. And that's all that counts in the end.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

alan smithee wrote:

Sadly as I alluded in a previous post. Don't count your chickens before they hatch. Québec wants to fight the feds for homegrown cannabis. If things work out as they appear to be,a CAQ majority government will use the nonwithstanding clause to keep cannabis illegal in Québec.

I don't think you understand what the notwithstanding clause is. It provides that a federal or provincial government may override the Charter of Rights by specifically saying in the legislation that this is their intent. However, this only applies to areas of the law that are within the constitutional jurisdiction of that level of government.

Marijuana prohibition, like all criminal law, is the exclusive jurisdiction of the federal government. Provinces may not create criminal offenses. They can create regulatory rules, like highway traffic laws, which carry punishments similar to criminal offences, but only in the areas the constitution sets aside for provincial jusrisdiction. So, the Charter doesn't enter into it. It is simply ultra vires for a provincial government to enact a criminal law.

There may be a sneaky way for the Quebec government to continue to prosecute people for growing or possessing cannabis, but it would have nothing to do with the notwithstanding clause.

cco

alan smithee wrote:

If things work out as they appear to be,a CAQ majority government will use the nonwithstanding clause to keep cannabis illegal in Québec. Mark my words.

The Criminal Code is federal, and legalisation is coming as the result of a bill in Parliament, not a court ruling. Section 33 is just a Charter override; it doesn't give the provinces the right to do things that are out of their jurisdiction. I'm sure Lévesque's PQ would've loved the opportunity to pass its own Code criminel du Québec with the notwithstanding clause, but it wasn't an option. I suppose Legault could impose a fine for possessing weed that didn't come from a certified government-allied mobster, however.

ETA: Cross-posted with MIchael Moriarty.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Michael Moriarity wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

Sadly as I alluded in a previous post. Don't count your chickens before they hatch. Québec wants to fight the feds for homegrown cannabis. If things work out as they appear to be,a CAQ majority government will use the nonwithstanding clause to keep cannabis illegal in Québec.

I don't think you understand what the notwithstanding clause is. It provides that a federal or provincial government may override the Charter of Rights by specifically saying in the legislation that this is their intent. However, this only applies to areas of the law that are within the constitutional jurisdiction of that level of government.

Marijuana prohibition, like all criminal law, is the exclusive jurisdiction of the federal government. Provinces may not create criminal offenses. They can create regulatory rules, like highway traffic laws, which carry punishments similar to criminal offences, but only in the areas the constitution sets aside for provincial jusrisdiction. So, the Charter doesn't enter into it. It is simply ultra vires for a provincial government to enact a criminal law.

There may be a sneaky way for the Quebec government to continue to prosecute people for growing or possessing cannabis, but it would have nothing to do with the notwithstanding clause.

Thanks for clearing that up. But Legault will find away to keep it prohibited as it currently is. I am thinking crying out 'Québec sovereignty rights' ,he will get it done somehow.

He and his party are the biggest threat to Canadian and Québécois democracy. CAQ may have La Meute and bigots from the regions but I think urban Quebecers would not be cool with it.

But us urbanites are going to pay the price thanks to the rural hee-haw population. Maybe giving Montréal more powers of autonomy would suffice. After all,it's the Urban community that greases the wheels in Québec. It sure as hell isn't Chibougamau

lagatta4

I've been up there; Chibougamau is a place where there is both a lot of drinking and a lot of other drugs. It is really "remote" and a bit of a wild frontier between the mainstream and settlements where most people are Indigenous. Not really typical of "old" rural Québec.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

lagatta4 wrote:

I've been up there; Chibougamau is a place where there is both a lot of drinking and a lot of other drugs. It is really "remote" and a bit of a wild frontier between the mainstream and settlements where most people are Indigenous. Not really typical of "old" rural Québec.

You're right. That was a bad example. But it's certainly true about the Beauce,Lac St-Jean and Riviere du Loup, everywhere that surrounds Quebec City and Quebec City itself. Bunch of xenophobes,bigots,hicks and as backward as Alabama.

Pages