Liberals - started January 28, 2015

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nicky

But it was not Ms. Adams who was called upon to deliver the day’s most crawlingly demeaning performance. That honour was reserved for Justin Trudeau. Ms. Adams, after all, was desperate. Mr. Trudeau had a choice. That he chose to receive her, not with a shrug of “hey, a seat’s a seat,” but in the same spirit of feigned high-mindedness, proves beyond a doubt his fitness for the rigours of high office.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/02/09/andrew-coyne-justin-trudeau-deli...

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Marco C wrote:

ajaykumar wrote:

May I remind everyone that Angry Tom was also a liberal. 

 

Go right ahead since the LPQ is not a part of the LPC and has nothing really to do with them. As for "angry' Tom he's much better and far more honest than "empty head" Trudeau.

Yeah. The PLQ is more right wing than the PLC.

Pondering

Debater wrote:
Let me say for the record that I'm not entirely sure what to make of the Eve Adams crossing.  It's not something I would have recommended.  It does indeed have some potential negatives for the Liberals.  Gerald Butts is a smart strategist, and Justin Trudeau usually has good political instincts, but this could be a gamble.  On the other hand, if it's true that they want to set up a situation of having a former CPC MP running against Joe Oliver & denouncing the Finance Minister over income splitting, it could turn out to have  some positives as well.

For what people call here "low information voters" all they will notice is that a Conservative crossed the floor to the Liberals. Cynics will be amused. Trudeau didn't have to promise her anything. She will have to compete for a nomination and I can't see any riding choosing her unless the other candidate is even more dreadful. I wouldn't be at all surprised if she decides not to even run for a nomination. This could be nothing more than face-saving for her in that she can say she chose not to run rather than she was barred from running. The assumption that she will run as a Liberal in the next election is premature. Gerald Butts is indeed a smart strategist. There is more going on than meets the eye.

ajaykumar

It is easier to denounce floor-crossers when noone wants to join your party (i.e. NDP). Mulcair was a RIGHT Wing Liberal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!haaahhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Jacob Two-Two

Does anyone else imagine ajay frothing and spitting as he types?

trotwood73

Jacob Two-Two wrote:
Does anyone else imagine ajay frothing and spitting as he types?

I am surprised he is able to breathe since his head seems to be firmly stuck up Justin's rectum!

trotwood73

So it has been an interesting start to the week so far! Yesterday, Justin was proud to show off his latest trophy candidate-MP! However, as many sites like the Beaverton have joked, did he even Google her name? Eve Adams is not much of a catch if you consider that the Conservatives did not even want her.

Now there is a rumour out of Quebec that Justin might have found a candidate to go up against Maria Mourani in Ahuntsic: his former Quebec leadership campaign director and Montreal municipal mayoral candidate Melanie Joly. Back during the 2013 Montreal municipal elections, many
pundits mused that her whole municipal campaign was nothing more than a PR stunt to give herself some credibility to run federally in 2015. Late last year, she gave up the leadership of her municipal party (she was not elected but several members of her party were) all while denying that she was going to make the leap into federal politics.

Joly’s family are no strangers to the Liberal party. Her father, Clemen Joly was the president of the Finance Commission of the LPC in Quebec and was named several times (but never testified) during the Gomery commission. Her step-mother is ex Liberal MP Carole-Marie Allard.

welder welder's picture

I don't think this is terribly difficult to figure out...Frankly,the big catch for the Lib's here is Soudas Not Adams...Two neoliberal's duking it out in Eglington-Lawrence doesn't sound terribly interesting to me,however,it's not that important to Lib fortunes.What is important is Soudas and Gerald Butts getting together and using inside information against The Harper Government* in terms of tactics,potential election planning,and,strategic leaks to the media about Conservative malfeasance...

This  reinforces my thinking that we are headed to a Spring election,by the way...

 

Having said all of that,it tells me the Lib's are essentially the smiling side of the neoliberal Corporatist coin...The frowning side is occupied by the Harper Government*...And,while it may interest people for a while,it's policy that rules the day...And economically speaking,the Liberal economic policy will doubtless mimic,if not be identical to,Conservative economic policy.

Meet the new boss/Same as the old boss...Liberacons/Coniberals...

clambake

Jacob Two-Two wrote:
Does anyone else imagine ajay frothing and spitting as he types?

His posts are nearly as bad as reading comments on YouTube.

addictedtomyipod

Atlas wrote:

The NDP is now the only party that prohibits floor-crossers from joining their Caucus without a mandate from their voters to do so. 

The Conservatives, the Liberals - and the Greens - all participate in this shameful betrayal of the trust of voters. Note that Maria Mourani has NOT been allowed to sit with the NDP caucus, but will run as a New Democrat next election in order to earn the right to do so. 

Folks can struggle mightily to try and justify this crass, opportunistic and fundamentally anti-democratic practice - but putting lipstick on a pig don't change the pork.

The fact is simple:  in a democracy, voters get to determine the political character of their representative. PERIOD. Once you violate this principle, you have elitism, opportunism and cynicism - but you DON'T have representative democracy.

And if those who seek to excuse this fundamental violation of democratic principle are SO SURE it is justified - then put your money where your mouth is and compel floor-crossers to resign their seat and put their argument to the test of their voters - where it belongs.

 

 


Very well said Atlas, it's worth repeating

Basement Dweller

Even after many years out of power, the Liberals are still finding new ways to exploit new Canadians.

Scores of Mandarin or Cantonese-speaking East Vancouver residents say they don’t know how their names were added to the Liberal Party of Canada’s membership list, according to a party member.

And the federal Liberals’ nomination meeting in outgoing NDP MP Libby Davies’ Vancouver East riding was abruptly postponed today, a day before federal Liberals were poised to pick a candidate. No reason was given.

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Liberal+nomination+battle+Vancouver+East+postponed+after/10800416/story.html#ixzz3RMvFwuJo

 

scott16

welder wrote:

I don't think this is terribly difficult to figure out...Frankly,the big catch for the Lib's here is Soudas Not Adams...Two neoliberal's duking it out in Eglington-Lawrence doesn't sound terribly interesting to me,however,it's not that important to Lib fortunes.What is important is Soudas and Gerald Butts getting together and using inside information against The Harper Government* in terms of tactics,potential election planning,and,strategic leaks to the media about Conservative malfeasance...

This  reinforces my thinking that we are headed to a Spring election,by the way...

 

Having said all of that,it tells me the Lib's are essentially the smiling side of the neoliberal Corporatist coin...The frowning side is occupied by the Harper Government*...And,while it may interest people for a while,it's policy that rules the day...And economically speaking,the Liberal economic policy will doubtless mimic,if not be identical to,Conservative economic policy.

Meet the new boss/Same as the old boss...Liberacons/Coniberals...

This is a Harper-esque move by Trudeau.

nicky

Next Justin will be bringing back Tom Wappell.

trotwood73

Apparently, JT plans to give Ikea Monkey a key cabinet position in his government!!!!! ;-)

 

It's official, we'll take anyone!

[from the Toronto Star]

robbie_dee

[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/adams-will-run-in-eglinton-... Adams will run in Eglinton Lawrence "over my dead body" - MPP Mike Colle[/url]

Quote:

The Liberal MPP who represents the riding where Eve Adams would like to run says she will get the nomination “over my dead body.”

Mike Colle, who has represented Eglinton-Lawrence at Queen’s Park for nearly 20 years, had those harsh words on Tuesday for Ms. Adams, the federal MP who defected from the Conservatives one day earlier. She currently represents suburban Mississauga-Brampton South, but is said to be eyeing the nomination in the federal counterpart to Mr. Colle’s riding.

On his Facebook page, Mr. Colle linked to a Huffington Post article about Ms. Adams’s intention to run in Eglinton-Lawrence. “Over my dead body!” he wrote overtop it. Mr. Colle’s remark also appeared in the comment section on the HuffPo website.

In an interview, Mr. Colle accused the Liberal Party of giving local members in Eglinton-Lawrence the “back of the hand” by looking to bring Ms. Adams in as a candidate.

“Imposing someone or someone coming in out of the blue with no knowledge of the issues here or ever involved in any issues here, to think they could come in and take the nomination, is a real back of the hand to the regular people who vote Liberal and volunteer for the Liberal Party in Eglinton-Lawrence,” Mr. Colle said.

He said Ms. Adams has “no connection” to the riding.

 

 

Pondering

Exactly, she will never win a nomination.

Debater

nicky wrote:

Next Justin will be bringing back Tom Wappell.

Nicky, these are the sort of false & unfair smears that reflect on you.

Tom Wappel wrote a letter to Justin Trudeau last year denouncing him for his pro-choice abortion rule.  Wappel is a right-wing socially conservative Liberal who is on the opposite end of the spectrum from Justin.  Even someone as anti-Liberal and anti-Justin as you must surely realize that.

I agree that Justin Trudeau is pursuing a more fiscally conservative economic policy than his father would, but you're not going to be able to portray Justin Trudeau as a social conservative.  Not when he is fervently pro-choice, pro-gay and pro-marijuana legalization.

Say what you will about Justin (and you will) but he has earned his progressive credentials on social issues.  He took hits from former right-wing Liberal MP's like Wappel and even the Catholic Archbishops last year for having the guts to take a strong pro-choice position.  Justin Trudeau told the worst of the ex-right-wing Liberals to go to hell, and NDP supporters should be glad that he did:

---

Justin Trudeau hits back at 'old men' over abortion stance criticism

Tom Wappel, Pat O'Brien, other former MPs say Trudeau violating spirit of charter

The days when old men get to decide what a woman does with her body are long gone. Times have changed for the better. #LPC defends rights.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/justin-trudeau-hits-back-at-old-men-over...

swallow swallow's picture

Quote:

I knew Justin Trudeau wasn't the spoiled, rich kid that the media made him out to be. But, I never really thought of him as the kind of guy who ate roadkill, either.

Mr. Trudeau just accepted somebody that Harper thought was too tainted to touch. Think about that for a second. Harper thought she was too dirty. That's like Rex Murphy accusing someone of "loquaciously rambling in their discourse."

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/finding-eve-adams-s-latest-move-confusin... Critch on CBC[/url]

nicky

debater , the fact that Justin would accept such an ethically tarnished right winger reflects badly on both his principles and judgement. Adams may not be as bad as Tom Wappell but except for abortion I don't see much difference.

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

This wretched crapulence is now reaching into its second 24-hour news cycle.

nicky

Damn, I was just about to paste the Ikea Monkey Liberal candidate cartoon but trotwood beat me to it.

 

Rokossovsky

You know what they say, it doesn't matter what they say, as long as they can follow the trail of slime. Once again proving that the Liberal Party itself is a right wing voter supression strategy.

A good day for cartoonists and meme writers though!

Pondering

Marco C wrote:
If I'm a voter looking for real change in government seeing the Liberal party take in a Conservative defector, her baggage and JT twisting of events notwithstanding, It would make me worry what kind of government the liberal are really offering.

I doubt she will be running for the Liberals in the next election. She will try for a nomination and lose.

Marco C wrote:
Now as a diehard NDP activist this just proves to me and others that the only real difference between the LPC and CPC is party colour and a single letter. It’s a cynical and short sighted move on the part or JT and whoever's advising him, taking in a Tory pariah who as little of 7 weeks ago was trumpeting the Government's policy on taxes, foreign affairs, the environment and reproductive rights is just foolish.

That you think it is foolish doesn't mean that it is. Are you suggesting that the NDP isn't cynical?

Marco C wrote:
What happened to all the talk of being a new party and governing in a new way? What happened to JT being a new kind of leader?

He is a new kind of leader. He said he wanted to bring people in from both the left and the right. He's not making personal attacks.

Marco C wrote:
It’s not that I don’t know the answer it just pisses me of the cynicism of it all, it’s this kind of bull that makes people apathetic and less involved,  it make people question the value of democracy.

I bet if you asked a 100 people about it 80% would not know much beyond there was some scandal about a Conservative and she crossed the floor to the Liberals and now the Conservatives are saying they didn't want her anyway.

Marco C wrote:
And what’s worse I can’t understand why you would still support the Liberals over the NDP, you seem like you have more than half a brain and yet you still would support this kind of cynical backroom power peddling.

You were referring to someone else, but I can't understand why you would think the NDP is any different.

 

 

 

NorthReport

I'm so glad Tom Mulcair has healthy principles and would not allow the NDP to stoop so low and admit floor-crossers like this. The voters in both Adam's current riding, and her future prospective riding must be outraged that Adams didn't resign, and subject herself to the voter's approval in a by-election before Trudeau pulled off his dirty back-room stunt like this. But, what the heck, this is the Trudeau Liberals new approach to politics. Frown

nicky

Pondering are you saying the NDP would have let Eve join them?

jjuares

The interesting thing about Adams move to the Liberals is the flack Trudeau is taking from not only the media but other Liberals.

http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2015/02/10/liberal-mpp-appalled-by-tory...

Rokossovsky

This is the first real indication that Trudeau is central to the decision making process in the party, given that only a total political neophyte could make such a stupid blunder without first getting the local constituency association onside.

Amateur hour.

Jacob Two-Two

Pondering wrote:

I doubt she will be running for the Liberals in the next election. She will try for a nomination and lose.

So you "know" she will lose. And we all know how amazing your psychic powers are. So then wasn't Justin an idiot to invite someone into the party that brings him all this bad press and doesn't even end up standing for election?

Didn't Justin know she wouldn't get the nomination? Does he have a poorer understanding of these things than you do?

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

Liberals have no critical faculties in terms of determining who might be a suitable candidate.
What she and Dimitri Soudas did was really underhanded. Why would you want someone like that?
I mean. Disgraced in the Conservative Party, which is very hard to be.

Eve Adams is politically toxic and should sit as an independent.
If she wants to run as a Liberal, let her run as a Liberal in the election.
But she was not elected to sit as a Liberal in this House.

Floor-crossing is scummy. 

Debater

Rokossovsky wrote:

This is the first real indication that Trudeau is central to the decision making process in the party, given that only a total political neophyte could make such a stupid blunder without first getting the local constituency association onside.

Amateur hour.

I remember last year on the Trinity-Spadina thread it was predicted that Trudeau selecting Adam Vaughan over the wishes of the riding association could cost him the riding, but Vaughan went on to win by 20 points over Joe Cressy.

All the objective commentators acknowledged that was a big win for Trudeau.  The 'amateur hour' was the NDP acclaiming Joe Cressy without even knowing which Liberal candidate they were going to face

Jacob Two-Two

Translation for the Debater-impaired: I have no argument. I can't defend my party. I'll just keep talking about by-elections until I'm blue in the face so I don't have to admit I have nothing to say.

Debater

Jacob Two-Two wrote:

Pondering wrote:

I doubt she will be running for the Liberals in the next election. She will try for a nomination and lose.

So you "know" she will lose. And we all know how amazing your psychic powers are. So then wasn't Justin an idiot to invite someone into the party that brings him all this bad press and doesn't even end up standing for election?

Didn't Justin know she wouldn't get the nomination? Does he have a poorer understanding of these things than you do?

This is a rare time where I agree with you.  I think Pondering may be naive about this.

The nominations are not 'open' in all ridings.  If Trudeau, Butts & Telford want Eve Adams to be the nominee, she will be the nominee.  The other candidates will be removed from contention.  It's happened in several other ridings already.  The nomination process has not turned out to be as 'open' as they are pretending it is.

I suppose it's possible if there was a really big backlash that Trudeau & Butts might change their minds and back down, but they haven't been willing to do so in any other riding yet.

1. Gen. Andrew Leslie was appointed as the candidate in Ottawa-Orléans even though lawyer David Bertschi reportedly had more support from the riding association.

2.  Marc Miller, Justin's friend from Brébeuf College was chosen as the candidate for Ville Marie despite there being complaints from the other candidate that the process was unfair.

3.  Seamus O'Regan, another friend of Justin's, became the nominee in St. John's South after his rival for the nomination withdrew from the race.

And there are a few other ridings like this.

jjuares

Debater wrote:

Jacob Two-Two wrote:

Pondering wrote:

I doubt she will be running for the Liberals in the next election. She will try for a nomination and lose.

So you "know" she will lose. And we all know how amazing your psychic powers are. So then wasn't Justin an idiot to invite someone into the party that brings him all this bad press and doesn't even end up standing for election?

Didn't Justin know she wouldn't get the nomination? Does he have a poorer understanding of these things than you do?

This is a rare time where I agree with you.  I think Pondering may be naive about this.

The nominations are not 'open' in all ridings.  If Trudeau, Butts & Telford want Eve Adams to be the nominee, she will be the nominee.  The other candidates will be removed from contention.  It's happened in several other ridings already.  The nomination process has not turned out to be as 'open' as they are pretending it is.

I suppose it's possible if there was a really big backlash that Trudeau & Butts might change their minds and back down, but they haven't been willing to do so in any other riding yet.

1. Gen. Andrew Leslie was appointed as the candidate in Ottawa-Orléans even though lawyer David Bertschi reportedly had more support from the riding association.

2.  Marc Miller, Justin's friend from Brébeuf College was chosen as the candidate for Ville Marie despite there being complaints from the other candidate that the process was unfair.

3.  Seamus O'Regan, another friend of Justin's, became the nominee in St. John's South after his rival for the nomination withdrew from the race.

And there are a few other ridings like this.


Why on earth would they want her in the party much less the nominee ? I don't believe that they will want her to be the nominee when the dust settles. Check social media and it is Liberals who are mostly stunned by this.

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

Reasonable.

trotwood73

Jacob Two-Two wrote:

Translation for the Debater-impaired: I have no argument. I can't defend my party. I'll just keep talking about by-elections until I'm blue in the face so I don't have to admit I have nothing to say.

Thanks J-2-2! Sometimes I read Debaters posts and wonder if I am having a stroke! ;-)

jjuares

Jacob Two-Two wrote:

Translation for the Debater-impaired: I have no argument. I can't defend my party. I'll just keep talking about by-elections until I'm blue in the face so I don't have to admit I have nothing to say.


Yeah that was very weird how he linked the two.

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

Folie a deux.

Liberals are stunned. This is what we call 'gaslighting'. It is what people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder do to their supply. The National Post have commented on Eve Adams' 'streak of loopy narcissism' and people here have commented on Justin Trudeau's narcissism. So we have a Barbie and Ken Narcissism Duo. Their 'supply' is the members of the Liberal Party.

They will lose sense of self, question reality, and they will be insecure around decisionmaking which they will delegate to the narcissist.
They will feel shocked, drained, stunned, paralyzed, and depressed.
They will seek help from the narcissist who will use it to control the victim or 'supply'. 

The three stages are:

1. Idealization where they pay you false complements to wind you in.
2. Devaluation where they run you down
3. Abandonment where they leave or kick you out. 

Basement Dweller

jjuares wrote:
Why on earth would they want her in the party much less the nominee ? I don't believe that they will want her to be the nominee when the dust settles. Check social media and it is Liberals who are mostly stunned by this.

Agreed.

And the Conservatives are going over the press conference frame by frame now, I believe. All the NDP has to do is sit back and watch.Smile

thorin_bane

LOL have to love watching this while the Wynne scandal on election bribes is making a go of things as well. One single guilding principle for Liberals : Love of power and nothing else.

Aristotleded24

nicky wrote:
debater , the fact that Justin would accept such an ethically tarnished right winger reflects badly on both his principles and judgement. Adams may not be as bad as Tom Wappell but except for abortion I don't see much difference.

Disagree as many here do, at least Wappell was always honest about his anti-abortion views.

wage zombie

Pondering wrote:

I doubt she will be running for the Liberals in the next election. She will try for a nomination and lose.

What if she doesn't lose the nomination?  It's perfectly ok with you that Trudeau is endorsing her as a good representative?

Pondering wrote:

That you think it is foolish doesn't mean that it is. Are you suggesting that the NDP isn't cynical?

Pondering wrote:

He is a new kind of leader. He said he wanted to bring people in from both the left and the right. He's not making personal attacks.

Trudeau's strength has been his perceived lack of cynicism.  This move damages that strength.  That's foolish.  Once he loses the "new kind of  leader" image, he doesn't have much left.

Pondering wrote:

I bet if you asked a 100 people about it 80% would not know much beyond there was some scandal about a Conservative and she crossed the floor to the Liberals and now the Conservatives are saying they didn't want her anyway.

You are straight up saying that Trudeau is exploiting the high level of political ignorance, and you have no problem with that tactic.

 

nicky

1.Here is a half-hearted defence of Adams by a Liberal Blogger

http://blunt-objects.blogspot.ca/2015/02/eve-adams-open-nominations-and-...

The comments are also interesting.

2. Trudeau promised open nominations. In fairness to him I don't believe he has actully yet  appointed a candidate without a nomination meeting as his predecessors routinely did. He does however routinely stack the deck in favour of his prefered candidates in various ways. Disallowing memberships, personal interventions to persuade rival coandidates not to run (It would be nice if an Andrew Olivier were to tape him), refusing to Green-light certain candidates, and even public criticism sometimes alleged to be libelous as in the case of Christine Innes. 

So he may be able to pretend that he is honouring his "open nomination" pledge but it is apparent he is breaking the spirit of that pledge. It is starting to haunt him sufficiently that he may hestitate in overtly intervening in favour of Adams as he has so clumsily done for other candidates.

Stockholm

I wonder if Justin Trudeau will ring up Kathleen Wynne and ask her to get Pat Sorbara to call any other Liberal thinking of running for the nomination in Eglinton-Lawrence and offer her an Ontario government job that pays six digits?

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

As Eglinton Lawrence is a centre of Liberal organized slime, Eve Adams will be a welcome addition.

terrytowel

Liberal MPP Mike Colle told Power & Politics

"You don't buy into Liberal values in 24 hours. You work, you volunteer, you engage into the community, you fight for causes, that's what makes a Liberal, It is not someone that all of a sudden decides maybe for convenience they've got Liberal values. You don't buy them in a convenience store like it seems in this case."

But I wasn't sure who he was talking about?

Was it about former NDP MP now Liberal MPP Glenn Thibeault? Or former Conservative MP now Liberal MP Eve Adams?

 

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

You don't buy into Liberal values because there is nothing to buy into.

Marco C

Liberal Values = Power for the sake of power?

Pondering

wage zombie wrote:
What if she doesn't lose the nomination?  It's perfectly ok with you that Trudeau is endorsing her as a good representative?

No it's not okay. It would be very disappointing but I can't say disillusioning.

wage zombie wrote:
Trudeau's strength has been his perceived lack of cynicism.  This move damages that strength.  That's foolish.  Once he loses the "new kind of  leader" image, he doesn't have much left.

I don't agree. I think his strength is that people see themselves or their aspirations reflected in him. Shared values. Trudeau stuck it to Harper by letting her cross the floor.

Pondering wrote:

I bet if you asked a 100 people about it 80% would not know much beyond there was some scandal about a Conservative and she crossed the floor to the Liberals and now the Conservatives are saying they didn't want her anyway.

wage zombie wrote:
You are straight up saying that Trudeau is exploiting the high level of political ignorance, and you have no problem with that tactic.

No, I'm saying people don't care. When the election rolls around they will decide based on one or two of five or six priorities. For example, it has been suggested that Thibeault won because Sudbury wanted someone in government. I think it's a strong theory don't you? The number one priority federally is the economy, it is Harper's strength and the NDP's weakness. All the Liberals have to do is appear credible on the economy. To a certain extent people do want a nicer Harper. There has been no major criticism of neoliberalism, only grumbling on the details.

I don't think Trudeau or the Liberals are so shit hot. I think Trudeau Liberals are better than the alternatives.

Geoff

Given that Trudeau has climbed into bed with Harper on an issue as fundamental to the country as the so-called anti-terror bill, what difference does it make which party Eve Adams runs for?

Pondering

Geoff wrote:

Given that Trudeau has climbed into bed with Harper on an issue as fundamental to the country as the so-called anti-terror bill, what difference does it make which party Eve Adams runs for?

Has Mulcair opposed it?

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