Maxime Bernier

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Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
I like how Bernier is taking a page from the Republican playbook and using a name meant to confuse the rubes of this country into thinking it is literally the 'People's Party'

What page is that?  I don't recall Scheer or Harper or any other Con tacking the word "People's" onto anything.  Will you clarify?

 

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
Choosing food isn't even vaguely like choosing a government, and the appropriate approach to these 2 choices is totally different.

There's not 2 choices.  There's 3.

Don't want food so bland you can't taste it?

Don't want food so spicy you can't taste anything else for a week?

Consider "medium".  A bit of each!

See what I'm getting at?

Is it possible that you are as obtuse as you pretend to be? Who knows? In the unlikely case that you are not just being obnoxious, the 2 choices I was referring to are actually the action of choosing a type of chicken wings, as opposed to the action of choosing a political party to support. Hope this helps.

Sean in Ottawa

After Ford conned people into thinking "For the people" was a thing we now have this.

Soon it will be called the Pee-Pee of C.

josh

I was hoping for the Free Randian Party.

Unionist

Michael Moriarity wrote:

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
Choosing food isn't even vaguely like choosing a government, and the appropriate approach to these 2 choices is totally different.

There's not 2 choices.  There's 3.

Don't want food so bland you can't taste it?

Don't want food so spicy you can't taste anything else for a week?

Consider "medium".  A bit of each!

See what I'm getting at?

Is it possible that you are as obtuse as you pretend to be? Who knows? In the unlikely case that you are not just being obnoxious, the 2 choices I was referring to are actually the action of choosing a type of chicken wings, as opposed to the action of choosing a political party to support. Hope this helps.

I'm going to take a crack at answering your points, Michael:

Michael wrote:
Is it possible that you are as obtuse as you pretend to be?

Possible, but exceedingly unlikely.

Michael wrote:
Who knows?

By now - virtually all of us old-timers know.

Michael wrote:
Hope this helps.

Unlikely. But hope springs eternal.

bekayne

josh wrote:

I was hoping for the Free Randian Party.

The Galt's Gulchers Party Of Canada

Misfit Misfit's picture

I personally like Sean from Ottawa's first post best:

Socialist Hating Independent Team!

The acronym best describes their ideological positions on issues.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Misfit wrote:

I personally like Sean from Ottawa's first post best:

Socialist Hating Independent Team!

The acronym best describes their ideological positions on issues.

Also...would S.H.I.T. be in the Marvel universe, or DC?  

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
I like how Bernier is taking a page from the Republican playbook and using a name meant to confuse the rubes of this country into thinking it is literally the 'People's Party'

What page is that?  I don't recall Scheer or Harper or any other Con tacking the word "People's" onto anything.  Will you clarify?

You should clarify. Bernier named his new party the People's party of Canada which is double speak it in reality is against the people of this country but low IQ voter's will see the words People's Party and think this is a party with the interests of Canadians at heart. It doesn't. Bernier came straight out and said he is only appealing to certain people and if you don't like it,don't vote for me,I don't care. "I only need 40% of the vote'  that fucking prick. Hence he's taken a page from the Republican playbook and using not only as a slogan but Party name as ' The People's'

Where did I mention Harper or Scheer? You really live up to the name Magoo. Clearly you need glasses.

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Henced he's taken a page from the Republican playbook and using not only as a slogan but Party name as ' The People's'

OK.  I guess I still just don't remember all the other Conservative parties that used/use "People's" in their name.  Unless you mean the DPRK?

Quote:
Where did I mention Harper or Scheer?

You still haven't mentioned anyone.  And it's not a hard question.

 

jerrym

Stockwell Day says Bernier will have a hard time keeping racists out of the party nominations because it is difficult to vet candidates for 338 ridings when there is litttle to no party apparatus to deal with the problem. Bernier has already had a phone call from the leader of the far right Canadian Nationalist Party.

Travis Patron, the leader of the far-right group, says he called Bernier’s office last week because he wanted to “jump on the phone” with him to see if he could find out any details about his new political venture.

“I inquired with Mr. Bernier’s office about his plans for his new party, trying to get some details about what his platform is and to see if there would be any interest in possibly co-operating with the Canadian Nationalist Party. So I reached out to him,” he said. Bernier organizer Martin Masse confirmed that the phone call took place, and said it would be the last.

The Canadian Nationalist Party is a fringe party that is not registered with Elections Canada. The group proposes banning burqas, and deporting asylum seekers. In a recent video Patron tells supporters that the party supports “traditional gender roles,” and says, “We want our men being strong and we want our women being beautiful.”

Patron said he likes that Bernier is willing to debate multiculturalism because his own party has been discussing whether multiculturalism is beneficial in the long term.

But their phone call, he said, focused primarily on immigration. Patron said they agreed that the Liberal government is not doing enough to curb the number of asylum seekers crossing the U.S. border into Canada. But Patron said he and Bernier disagreed on the number of newcomers to welcome to Canada, saying he would like number to be much lower than what Bernier proposed. Patron said Bernier asked for his support and he responded that he was looking forward to learning more about his party.

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/berniers-new-party-draws-first-pu...

 

jerrym

On Power and Politics, Jen Gerson said that Bernier took his party platform word-for-word from the Libertarian party platform. 

Here are some of the key ideas in his platform. 

He said he would like to have a wider debate about immigration and consider possible changes to the system, such as cutting the number of family reunifications in favour of increasing economic immigration. He also said he would like to lower the total number of immigrants that come to Canada every year. ...

But when asked during his press conference about potential supporters who want to limit immigration for xenophobic reasons, Bernier said "they have no place in our party." ...

"Extreme people who are against immigration, they're not welcome in this party. And it's clear. I will have the privilege to choose the candidates that will run for this party and we'll choose people who share the values of our party," he told host Vassy Kapelos. ...

A key plank of Bernier's platform is ending supply management in the agricultural sector. He argues that giving up supply management would "be good for Canadian consumers," who he said are paying too much now for dairy, poultry and eggs because of Canada's system of production control.

Bernier said he would put supply management on the table in the NAFTA negotiations in order to keep chapter 19 — the dispute resolution mechanism that allows companies to seek recourse for unfairly levied tariffs — and the cultural exemption. "What I'm reading right now there are only three files on the table: chapter 19, cultural exception and supply management. It's easy give (away) supply management and try to keep the two others." ...

As part of his announcement Friday, Bernier announced some the PPC's guiding principles, including:

  • Advocating for smaller government.
  • Respecting the taxpayers.
  • Upholding the Constitution.
  • Denouncing programs that prevent competitiveness.
  •  

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/bernier-peoples-party-canada-1.4823647

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture
alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
Henced he's taken a page from the Republican playbook and using not only as a slogan but Party name as ' The People's'

OK.  I guess I still just don't remember all the other Conservative parties that used/use "People's" in their name.  Unless you mean the DPRK?

Quote:
Where did I mention Harper or Scheer?

You still haven't mentioned anyone.  And it's not a hard question.

 

Again,I mentioned NOTHING about Scheer,Harper or the CPC. I mentioned Bernier and his new ' People's Party of Canada' which is classic doublespeak. The same kind of double speak the REPUBLICANS have been using for 40 years. Things like ' right to work' and ' just say no' 

​ ​Again,I explicitly referenced Bernier and the Republicans and how Bernier is branding his party as populist like the Republicans are doing right now while fucking over their populace and the only reason they keep their heads over water is racist,xenophoobic,anger and fear. Far rght ideology where most Trumpists will follow the Orange Hitler to the ends of the earth because of their unreasoonable hatred for Democrats above all Liberals. They'll sooner go down with the ship. The rest of his base are RUBES who buy into the Republicans faux populism by a constant barrage of lies and double speak. Bernier basically said ' fuck you' to 60% of Canadians by saying he dooesn't give a fuck if people don't like his policies and that ' I only need 40% of the vote'

I compared Bernier with the Republican party and Donald Trump. NOTHING aboout Scheer,NOTHING about Harper and NOTHING about the CPC.

You're purposely being an aggitator or you're blind or you're an asshole. 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Again,I mentioned NOTHING about Scheer,Harper or the CPC. I mentioned Bernier and his new ' People's Party of Canada' which is classic doublespeak.

Didn't you also reference "Republicans"?

I'd accept an answer where you tell me about the time the Republicans put "People's" in their name.

Quote:
The same kind of double speak the REPUBLICANS have been using for 40 years. Things like ' right to work' and ' just say no'

And "People's".

As you're going to tell us, right?

Quote:
You're purposely being an aggitator or you're blind or you're an asshole.

I think you may have just invented the first "false TRIchotomy". 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
Again,I mentioned NOTHING about Scheer,Harper or the CPC. I mentioned Bernier and his new ' People's Party of Canada' which is classic doublespeak.

Didn't you also reference "Republicans"?

I'd accept an answer where you tell me about the time the Republicans put "People's" in their name.

Quote:
The same kind of double speak the REPUBLICANS have been using for 40 years. Things like ' right to work' and ' just say no'

And "People's".

As you're going to tell us, right?

Quote:
You're purposely being an aggitator or you're blind or you're an asshole.

I think you may have just invented the first "false TRIchotomy". 

I never said anything of the kind. I said Bernier has taken a page out of the Republican playbook with his doublespeak. End point.

Thanks for answering my question. You're an asshole. We're done.

Misfit Misfit's picture

Ken Bursh wrote, "Also...would S.H.I.T. be in the Marvel universe, or DC? "

I would think so, some of his ideas are not from our dimension anyway.

voice of the damned

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
Again,I mentioned NOTHING about Scheer,Harper or the CPC. I mentioned Bernier and his new ' People's Party of Canada' which is classic doublespeak.

Didn't you also reference "Republicans"?

I'd accept an answer where you tell me about the time the Republicans put "People's" in their name.

Quote:
The same kind of double speak the REPUBLICANS have been using for 40 years. Things like ' right to work' and ' just say no'

And "People's".

As you're going to tell us, right?

Quote:
You're purposely being an aggitator or you're blind or you're an asshole.

I think you may have just invented the first "false TRIchotomy". 

Not quite. C.S. Lewis' Trilemma is regarded by many as a three-way false dilemma.

https://tinyurl.com/hrh3t8e

TL/DR: Purports to demonstrate that, in order to disbelieve in the divinity of Christ, you must either believe that he was a liar or a lunatic, and since no one wants to believe the latter two options...

 

josh

Of course it’s Libertarian.  That’s what Bernier is.  He would privatize everything and cut social programs to the bone, if not outright eliminate them.  He will try to use immigration and cultural issues as window dressing to lure people in who might otherwise not buy his Randian philosophy.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Perhaps it's high time the right got cleaved into "I want small government" and "I want forced Xtian prayer in schools again".

voice of the damned

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Perhaps it's high time the right got cleaved into "I want small government" and "I want forced Xtian prayer in schools again".

Agreed, though you can expect the "small government" right to fight for parents' freedom to pull kids from the godless school system altogether, and give them home-school lessons about creation-science and Leviticus social theory.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

They'll surely pretend to fight for it, even though it's already parents' right.

voice of the damned

Mr. Magoo wrote:

They'll surely pretend to fight for it, even though it's already parents' right.

Well, I think in most provinces, home-schoolers are still required to teach the curriculum, aren't they, even if they add their own alternative theories for "balance"? A genuinely, mad-dog libertarian party would probably up the ante by saying they shouldn't even have to teach the curriculum. I think this is already being argued with regards to sex-ed in some places.

NorthReport
Cody87

He's not going to court the right wing. He's going to court those who feel cheated by the established system.

Mark my words, he's going to hammer on every betrayal every party has perpetrated on their own supporters.

He's already started on the Conservatives, but you think he won't be able to turn some amount of NDP supporters against Singh? Some NDP supporters are already against Singh! As for the Liberals...hah...I'm sure I don't need to enlighten anyone here about liberal betrayals.

He won't even get a majority of those who are fed up with the system, but those are the people he's targetting and he'll get some amount from all parties.

Sean in Ottawa

Cody87 wrote:

He's not going to court the right wing. He's going to court those who feel cheated by the established system.

Mark my words, he's going to hammer on every betrayal every party has perpetrated on their own supporters.

He's already started on the Conservatives, but you think he won't be able to turn some amount of NDP supporters against Singh? Some NDP supporters are already against Singh! As for the Liberals...hah...I'm sure I don't need to enlighten anyone here about liberal betrayals.

He won't even get a majority of those who are fed up with the system, but those are the people he's targetting and he'll get some amount from all parties.

This is exactly the basis of the Trump Fraud in the US -- take people who have been hurt by right wing economics and tell them the solution is more extreme right wing economics.

The difference is that Trump's basis is also race-based fear.

Bernier is learning to incorporate that as an essential part of the deception. This is why this Libertarian is learning to advance immigration and dog whistle policies as in order to win you ahve to unite the racist hatred with the economic greed of the Libertarians to create a winnable monster. This is the key to get a democracy to vote to screw itself.

gadar

Bernier wants more people who share 'our' values. Which values would they be? Bigotry? Xenophobia?

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-friday-edition-1.4833...

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Bernier wants more people who share 'our' values. Which values would they be? Bigotry? Xenophobia?

For some, certainly.

But don't exclude those people who just want to belong to something. 

Any politician* can score a few points and a few votes just by saying "Isn't it time WE mattered?  Isn't it time WE counted??  Isn't it time we stood up for what's OURS???"

If you parse it, such a speech says NOTHING material or specific.  But the people hearing it are free to fill in their own blanks and pretty soon they're buying tiki torches from Home Depot and getting ready to die for Armageddon.

*Works just as well on the left, btw.  If you don't believe me, ask yourself this:  is "Are you tired of governments that don't represent you and just want your money to spend on things you don't want while they laugh at you and enjoy a life of luxury?" a right-wing or left-wing call to arms?  It seriously works just as well either way!

gadar

Mr. Magoo wrote:

If you parse it, such a speech says NOTHING material or specific.  But the people hearing it are free to fill in their own blanks and pretty soon they're buying tiki torches from Home Depot and getting ready to die for Armageddon.

"Dog whistle" in other words.

Misfit Misfit's picture

And what was wrong with the pussy march on Washington after Trump was inaugurated?

Should people be chastised for wanting to have a government that accommodates the rights and needs of all people?  That is what they are elected to do.

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
"Dog whistle" in other words.

Yes.  A non-partisan dog whistle.  Like a real dog whistle, it works for anyone who blows it.

jerrym

Wendy Mesly's [WM] The Weekly has a revealing interview with Maxime Bernier[MB] about his libertarian beliefs, his connections to American billionaires, such as the Koch brothers, and their dark money through international liberterian organizations, such as the Atlas Network, and Canadian think tanks, such as the Fraser Institute and the Montreal Economic Institute, as well as to The Rebel Media. 

Bernier has linked his political beliefs to libertarianism, an ideology that forms the bedrock of many of the populist governments which have swept into power from the U.S. to Brazil. These movements have been mostly homegrown, though some get ideological and strategic support from a global influence organization known as the Atlas Network, which is partially funded by American industrialists David and Charles Koch.

The Atlas Network connects think tanks around the world and promotes libertarian ideas. Bernier is not endorsed by Atlas, as they don't directly support or fund candidates, but he and two of his senior staff members have worked at think tanks partnered with Atlas. 

Atlas lists the Montreal Economic Institute and Canada's Fraser Institute among its partners. Bernier served as a VP at the MEF before entering politics and one of his two lieutenants at his new party, Martin Masse, also worked there. Bernier's other lieutenant, Maxime Hupe, was until recently at the Fraser Institute. Both Atlas and Fraser have received large donations from the Koch brothers. ...

WM: I'm wondering if this movement is sweeping the world. Are you connected to that? Do you want to be the Canadian face of this global libertarian movement?

MB: No, no, I'm not connected to that. I'm raising money for the party ... and I'm able to raise money from the grassroots. ...

WM: You say you have no links to these American billionaires ... and yet you and a big chunk of your senior team worked either at the Montreal Economic Institute or at the Fraser Institute. Both are linked. They're partnered with the Atlas network, which is largely funded by the Koch brothers who are American libertarian billionaires, so you are ... linked are you not? At least in thinking.

MB: [Laughing] I was V.P. at the Montreal Economic Institute 13 years ago, for two years.

WM: And you said that that inspired much of your thinking.

MB: Absolutely, absolutely, and I'm proud of that. ...

WM: But Atlas-funded think-tanks could help you. Koch brother-funded think-tanks could help you.

MB: But I'm not a think-tank. I left the Montreal Economic [Institute] 13 years ago. So I'm a political party ...

WM: I was speaking to a conservative strategist today who is not on your team. Maybe he will be at some point. But he was saying, 'Yeah, it's pretty easy to raise money when you're espousing Libertarian values. You're talking about getting the government off the backs of corporations.'

MB: I will add that it's easy to raise money when you're saying what you believe to Canadians, and where you are an authentic politician. Yes, you're right. People want that. ...

WM: You have said that you would like to be Canada's Ron Paul ... He is seen as the intellectual godfather of the Tea Party. Is that what you want here? Do you want a Canadian Tea Party?

MB: No, I didn't say ... that I wanted to be the Ron Paul. I really admire Ron Paul because he's an authentic politician. ...

WM: So Ezra Levant, they have a million subscribers on YouTube and 150,000 followers on Facebook. Do you want his support? Do you want his audience?

MB: You know, I want people who believe in our ideas, and it can be people who are watching this show right now. People who are all watching the Ezra Levant and Rebel. It can be people who are watching Radio Canada, so people who believe.

WM: Andrew Scheer won't go on [Levant's] show anymore after what happened in Charlottesville, that it was seen as ... promoting racist ideas. You don't have a problem with that?

MB: ... and if I received it I would think about it. You know, I want to reach Canadians who believe in our ideas and use all the platforms available to do that. I'm using social media.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/theweekly/the-weekly-maxime-bernier-interview-1....

 

jerrym

For those who prefer the video form of Wendy Mesley's interview of Maxime Bernier and his connections to international libertarian organizations, American billionaires and Canadian corporate conservative organizations such as the Fraser Institute, here it is. 

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1327254595744

 

 

voice of the damned

Mr. Magoo wrote:

 If you don't believe me, ask yourself this:  is "Are you tired of governments that don't represent you and just want your money to spend on things you don't want while they laugh at you and enjoy a life of luxury?" a right-wing or left-wing call to arms?  It seriously works just as well either way!

Actually, if I knew nothing else about the speaker, and saw no other context for the quote, and was forced to bet money on it being a right-winger or a left-winger, I would bet on a right-winger. The reason being that "spending" tends to be a default target for right-wingers, moreso than for left-wingers.

There are, of course, cases where both right-wingers and left-wingers will attack spending on specifically named projects, but if I hear someone attacking "spending", in and of itself, I tend to assume he leans right.

But your point is otherwise well taken, a lot of political rhetoric, especially of a populist bent, works for both sides. "I'm tired of these fat-cats living high off the hog while the rest of us can barely afford to get by". Could be either, depending on who the fat-cats and the impoverished are thought to be.  

voice of the damned

^ "I'm sick of these governments that just help out their buddies and don't give a flying fuck about the rest of us" is another statement that could probably be uttered by a right-winger or a left-winger. Though in most cases, the speaker would eventually reveal whether he regards the government's buddies as, say, layabout feminist art collectives getting state-funding grants, or avaracious oil companies getting unfair tax breaks.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Though in most cases, the speaker would eventually reveal whether he regards the government's buddies as, say, layabout feminist art collectives getting state-funding grants, or avaracious oil companies getting unfair tax breaks.

I think that's true.  Sooner or later, they can't help themselves.

Like evangelical Christians.  Sure, they can start by wanting to have an easygoing discussion about beliefs, but before long, they'll drop the "J-word".

gadar

Starts the process of registering the Peoples Party

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/maxime-bernier-peoples-party-registrati...

gadar

Nanos has started including Bernier and his party into its rolling poll. Currently at 1.3 nationally. I would like to see a province by province breakdown of the numbers. 

Sean in Ottawa

gadar wrote:

Nanos has started including Bernier and his party into its rolling poll. Currently at 1.3 nationally. I would like to see a province by province breakdown of the numbers. 

Why? The number is too small for a regional number to be statistically significant. This number nationally means that he is insignificant statisticaly anywhere. If it grows then a breakdown will be in order -- and likely provided.

gadar

Bernier Party organising on the Vancouver Island

https://twitter.com/KewlShannon/status/1054190620330221568

gadar

30000 members in month and a half. Not too shabby

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/bernier-membership-podcast-1.4886079

Sean in Ottawa

Hard to say if Bernier might set a chord and become a real threat or simply cost the Conservatives the election. Not clear if this is a good thing.

Bernier would be a threat if the right elected a majority and he had balance of power. If he keeps the right from being elected and splits the vote then that is a better result. If he gets those on the right to be in favour of PR, that is also a benefit.

gadar

"I pledge that I have done or said nothing in the past, and will do or say nothing in the future, that would embarrass the party," reads a copy of the pledge provided to CBC News by the party.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/bernier-peoples-party-pledge-1.4889510

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Interesting idea -- good luck to him with it.  The problem is that the people who say these things don't for a moment believe they're anything to be embarrassed about.

It might be more effective if they gave some concrete examples, like:

- no offhand comments about abortion, marriage, sexuality, immigrants, world leaders, other countries, or religions of any sort

- no blackface, even on hallowe'en

- no comparing anyone to animals, garbage, locusts or the plague

- no tweeting while you have a bee in your bonnet about ANYTHING

... etc.

Unionist

gadar wrote:

"I pledge that I have done or said nothing in the past, and will do or say nothing in the future, that would embarrass the party," reads a copy of the pledge provided to CBC News by the party.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/bernier-peoples-party-pledge-1.4889510

The Liberals, Conservatives, and NDP have exactly the same kind of "pledge" when it comes to candidates. But the important thing is that in practice, they all unceremoniously throw people into the trash when they "embarrass" the party. We should be grateful to Bernier for being open about his Dictatorship of the Leader.

gadar

Impressive crowd at Bernier's event in Vancouver. Illustrious Mr Grewal also addressed the crowd.

https://twitter.com/MaximeBernier/status/1060736337030987776

Misfit Misfit's picture

White Supremacist joins PPC

Article....

We'll see if Bernier kicks him out. The UCP kicked him out of their party.

 

gadar

Misfit wrote:

White Supremacist joins PPC

Article....

We'll see if Bernier kicks him out. The UCP kicked him out of their party.

 

Yea that guy went from working for the Cons to the Ultra Cons and now to the Confused Cons. We will see where he ends up. Their first choice is always the Cons tho, and they only get kicked out once the outside world gets an air of their ideology, as long as their toxicity stays within the confines of the party, it seems to be all good. He has spent fair amount of time working for the Cons of different stripes.

Misfit Misfit's picture

Yes he has.

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