Mulcair to meet 20 AFN chiefs Thursday

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NorthReport

I did see in a news report recently that said more First Nations are getting their PhD's than ever before which has to be good news at least in the long term for aboriginal communities.

The best way for First Nations to solve their problems is to get themselves educated, no matter what it takes, as your education is one thing no one can take away from you once you have obtained it.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/record-number-of-ab...

autoworker autoworker's picture

Maysie wrote:

Unionist wrote:

Ok, some news that's relevant to this thread topic:

[url=http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1314509--thomas-mulc... Mulcair endorses Conservative efforts with First Nations[/url]

Thanks, Unionist. This is exactly the kind of leadership I was looking for, and expected.


If Mulcair hopes to form a government next election, he can't afford to alienate the 'settler' vote.

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

autoworker wrote:
Maysie wrote:

Unionist wrote:

Ok, some news that's relevant to this thread topic:

[url=http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1314509--thomas-mulc... Mulcair endorses Conservative efforts with First Nations[/url]

Thanks, Unionist. This is exactly the kind of leadership I was looking for, and expected.

If Mulcair hopes to form a government next election, he can't afford to alienate the 'settler' vote.

I never trusted Mulcair to be anything near a socialist or even a social democrat but his true colours are really coming alive. Chief Spence is not worthy of his stopping by Victoria Island but pro-devolopment AFN Chief Atleo is praised as an incredible leader and ally. And then he actually supports Harper's meaningless meeting as being a step in the right direction when they wouldn't even revisit the offending pieces of legislation in those omnibus bills.

I new Mulcair was pretty much a neoliberal on international issues but this is a bit of a surprise. So much for his STRONG environmental credentials.

Lou Arab Lou Arab's picture

This is an honest question: What would it take for Chief Spence to halt her hunger strike?

onlinediscountanvils

Quote:
Spence, who attended a ceremonial event with the Governor General at Rideau Hall in Ottawa on Friday evening, along with about 100 other chiefs, has since vowed to continue her hunger strike until the prime minister and Governor General meet with First Nations together, in the same room.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2013/01/12/pol-the-house-matthew-coo...

Unionist

Lou Arab wrote:

This is an honest question: What would it take for Chief Spence to halt her hunger strike?

A meeting with the Prime Minister and the Crown present. Unless she has changed her position sometime since day one. Why is this so difficult to follow?

Another honest question I think might be: What would it take for "us" (Harper, Mulcair, you, I) to respect Aboriginal treaty rights and deal with them on the basis of equality of nations?

A good start might be to listen to what the movement of Indigenous people is saying and believe that it is being said honestly.

ETA: Cross-posted with onlinediscountanvils.

 

 

Paladin1

What happens if the Governor General changes his mind meets with the Prime Minister, a delegation from the AFN and he simply sits there nodding his head smiling and shruging his shoulders if any questions are put to him.  Would mebers of the First Nations find it acceptabe that he is simply present or would theydemand some type of feedback or interaction with him?  The picture painted to me is that as a figure head he has no real power to do anything.

Aristotleded24

laine lowe wrote:

autoworker wrote:
Maysie wrote:

Unionist wrote:

Ok, some news that's relevant to this thread topic:

[url=http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1314509--thomas-mulc... Mulcair endorses Conservative efforts with First Nations[/url]

Thanks, Unionist. This is exactly the kind of leadership I was looking for, and expected.

If Mulcair hopes to form a government next election, he can't afford to alienate the 'settler' vote.

I never trusted Mulcair to be anything near a socialist or even a social democrat but his true colours are really coming alive. Chief Spence is not worthy of his stopping by Victoria Island but pro-devolopment AFN Chief Atleo is praised as an incredible leader and ally. And then he actually supports Harper's meaningless meeting as being a step in the right direction when they wouldn't even revisit the offending pieces of legislation in those omnibus bills.

I new Mulcair was pretty much a neoliberal on international issues but this is a bit of a surprise. So much for his STRONG environmental credentials.

No no, you're wrong. Mulcair is The Chosen One! Only he can help the party win in Quebec! Only he can connect with the average person! Only he can beat Stephen Harper! He's The One! That's why we should choose him as The Great NDP Leader!

Ippurigakko

Well.. it sounds like Mulcair is favour of Colonialism on Indigenous land! one word "Genocide"

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Ippurigakko wrote:

Well.. it sounds like Mulcair is favour of Colonialism on Indigenous land! one word "Genocide"

Here's what the Star article says in the first few paragraphs:

An agreement by Prime Minister Stephen Harper to throw his weight behind renewed efforts to deal with First Nations concerns received the cautious endorsement of NDP Leader Tom Mulcair.

“There is progress because they’re talking very openly now about an enhanced process and an accelerated process for treaty rights, that’s a good thing,” Mulcair said Sunday in an interview with the Star.

Mulcair said although hurdles remain, where provinces like B.C. have few treaties, he understood that Harper would create a cabinet-level committee to tackle treaty implementation issues. “Even though it’s bureaucratic — it is a step in the right direction.”

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Boom Boom wrote:

Mulcair said although hurdles remain, where provinces like B.C. have few treaties, he understood that Harper would create a cabinet-level committee to tackle treaty implementation issues. “Even though it’s bureaucratic — it is a step in the right direction.”

So he proves that he knows nothing about the BC Treaty file.  The problem with the process is that the government has gone to the bargaining table in bad faith because they insist any treaty signed must extinguish claims to aboriginal land title.  If he understood the file he would talk about those frustrations which are dividing FN's communities like Sliammon and causing various FN's to be in debt for millions of dollar for the process of negotiating with government paid lawyers who have no mandate to actually compromise on anything.

I have a suggestion for Mulcair he could suggest that the FN's costs to bargain over the last 20 years be paid by the government because it has always bargained in bad faith and with no honour. 

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

I saw today the Chiefs speaking on CTV with Bob Rae sitting in the background prominently. I didn't stick around to see if he spoke. I have been told the Chiefs tend to support Libs but I get the impression thata  the community as a whole votes NDP. Can anyone speak to this. To watch the Lib "Leader" sit there as a champion of Aboriginal rights, was, to say the least, "rich".

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I have a suggestion for Mulcair he could suggest that the FN's costs to bargain over the last 20 years be paid by the government because it has always bargained in bad faith and with no honour. 

..i would be impressed with this. this would mean he would be part of the solution rather than just not as bad as the libs and cons.

eta:

..the ndp now faces the inm, the que students, enviromental/no pielines who do not need the ndp. they just need the numbers to disagree with how we are governed. the ndp is in crisis. ottawa can't seem to move forward with this upheavel from the bottom. and it refuses to acknowledge the need for radical change. imho

felixr

Mulcair needs to be careful, because public opinion is against the chiefs right now. Depending on how this plays out, Harper could be the big winner and FNs the big losers.

Unionist

"Public opinion" was against my family and their community in 1941-44. Mulcair would have been careful, I'm sure. With friends like that, who needs public opinion.

 

Unionist

epaulo13 wrote:

..which public? the public that is speaking out? the public that is being exploted as if they were not human?

The same public that thought Africans were subhuman when Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation. Recall that he wasn't reelected, hence Mulcair had better be careful before he takes a position that racist colonial bigots may not approve.

ennir

Thank you Unionist.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..yes thank you

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..which public? the public that is speaking out? the public that is being exploited as if they were not human?

felixr

Unionist wrote:

"Public opinion" was against my family and their community in 1941-44. Mulcair would have been careful, I'm sure. With friends like that, who needs public opinion.

The chiefs are part of the 1%, they are repeatedly found to take home over a quarter million in income annually. Reserves are repeatedly shown to be badly mismanaged finacially and many Canadians resent the privileges that FNs have for not paying taxes (particularly on their businesses), free pharmacare, college tuition, scholarships, exemptions from fishing and hunting regulations or all environmental laws in general, and publicly financed political lobbies like the AFN. The reserves are black holes for public money. Other reserves produce wealth by very publicly skipping fishing and logging quotas, taxes on gas bars and other local businesses, or through smuggling drugs, weapons, and tobacco. There are epidemic rates of obesity and obesity-related diseases on many reserves, "traditional way of life" aside. Sorry to burst bubbles but many Canadians don't share the "noble savage" view of FN chiefs that people on this board present. If you want to fix the problem or at least win the public debate about improve life for FNs, you have to have a grasp on what the public thinks and why overwhelming majorities of Canadians want to improve the conditions of FNs but a majority opposes Idle No More, the chiefs, and the AFN.

This situation is analogous to the public disliking the unions for their privileges and the unions are a lot more careful than the chiefs have been.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

^With regard to the above post^  First Nations Taxation explained

ennir

What I find hilarious, in a dark way,  is that many Canadians appear to be perfectly okay with being openly racist, and that these racists feel that they are the majority and therefore they are right.  It is not surprising, this was the intent of our education system, to exclude the history of the treaties was to erase them.  I wonder what this country would be like if they had been honoured from the beginning, if there had been respect, from the beginning.

Sadly, I think genocide has always been the program, I do not think that there ever was any honour in treaties signed by absent royalty, not even the intent of honour.  I think the intent for this land from the very beginning was rape and only rape.  There may have been individuals that acted from a place of respect but the program never had integrity.

Machiavalli said regarding invasion, don't send any an army, send settlers, they will build their own army.  And here we are  the Canadian Settlers army, illiterate basically when it comes to the true history of this land, illiterate to our own history of how our connection to the earth was lost, smug in our ignorance and cruelty, perfect victims really, recreating victimhood for others.

As an aside, years ago I had the opportunity to ask a question of Jean Charest and when he answered I saw the words come out both sides of his mouth and though he spoke for some time at the end of it he had not said anything at all that he could ever be held accountable for and I thought, THIS is forked tongue and what a brilliant way to describe it. 

As for Mulcair, his actions are predictable, it seems he will only meet with whoever Harper will meet with, so even though Teresa Spence is ten minutes away he doesn't have the time to walk over and say I support you, but then he didn't support her did he, he thought it was okay to tell her to end her hunger strike and in doing that he demonstrated how profoundly he doesn't get it.  He makes himself irrelevent.

I first learned how wonderful teasing is as a way teaching from Cree women and when I cooked for a group of young Cree men when they started teasing me I knew I had been accepted, perhaps it is too much to ask of the First Nations peoples to share their teasing with us but I am convinced that making fun of the dominant racist culture is one way to penetrate the bullshit.

My heart is gladdened by Idle No More, I think it is showing all of us who we are together, who we really are, and the message I hear from the First Nations people over and over is one of invitation, that they are willing to meet, given our history of betrayal, for me demonstrates the greatness of their spirit.  I am humbled and grateful to be invited to dance.

 

MegB

felixr wrote:

Unionist wrote:

"Public opinion" was against my family and their community in 1941-44. Mulcair would have been careful, I'm sure. With friends like that, who needs public opinion.

The chiefs are part of the 1%, they are repeatedly found to take home over a quarter million in income annually. Reserves are repeatedly shown to be badly mismanaged finacially and many Canadians resent the privileges that FNs have for not paying taxes (particularly on their businesses), free pharmacare, college tuition, scholarships, exemptions from fishing and hunting regulations or all environmental laws in general, and publicly financed political lobbies like the AFN. The reserves are black holes for public money. Other reserves produce wealth by very publicly skipping fishing and logging quotas, taxes on gas bars and other local businesses, or through smuggling drugs, weapons, and tobacco. There are epidemic rates of obesity and obesity-related diseases on many reserves, "traditional way of life" aside. Sorry to burst bubbles but many Canadians don't share the "noble savage" view of FN chiefs that people on this board present. If you want to fix the problem or at least win the public debate about improve life for FNs, you have to have a grasp on what the public thinks and why overwhelming majorities of Canadians want to improve the conditions of FNs but a majority opposes Idle No More, the chiefs, and the AFN.

This situation is analogous to the public disliking the unions for their privileges and the unions are a lot more careful than the chiefs have been.

felixr, your post is bigoted and uninformed. As such it is in violation of babble policy.  If you feel you must express these views, it would be wise go to another site where such ignorance is appreciated.

Just a warning from your friendly neighbourhood moderator.

Unionist

Wow. Thank you, ennir. That needs to be published somewhere - like say by rabble. You said it all.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Brad Lavigne on P&P said Mulcair was working behind the scenes, on the telephone to Chief Spence often, and was not interested in "photo ops". And he had Charlie Angus and others over at Chief's Spence's location every day.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

So, then what about Rae?

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I think Rae has been talking with Spence almost since Day One of her fast - that was communicated by not only Spence's spokesperson, but also by other chiefs. He's been on P&P with the Manitoba chiefs this week.

ETA:  A delegation that includes interim Liberal leader Bob Rae and northern Ontario deputy grand chief Alvin Fiddler has been working closely with Spence to hash out a dignified solution.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

So, who is winning the PR war on this, Rae or Mulcair? I am worried the Libs are winning this. I know it isn't about winning, but it also is. Is Tom's strategy good, and why was Rae with those Chiefs and not someone from the NDP. Does that mean anything?

Unionist

With respect, I would much rather see the opposition parties inscribe the INM aims on their banner, immediately and clearly, rather than worrying about who won the PR war. Has either the NDP or the Liberals or anyone else committed to reversing the offensive provisions of C-38 and C-45, for example - which is what I thought INM was all about? The best they could do in the "declaration" which they patched together was this:

Quote:
A comprehensive review and meaningful consultation in regards to Bill C-38 and C-45 to ensure it is consistent with Section 35 of the Constitution Act (1982).

I'm unimpressed by these PR warriors. They even stopped talking about Attawapiskat for a year, until Spence started her strike. They can't be trusted - they can only be pressured. But that means someone needs to pressure them, rather than just praising or evaluating their performances.

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

So is this about which settler political party can gain the most?  I know that Romeo has been involved and frankly I would have expected that Mulcair would have allowed Charles and Romeo to take the lead although as OO leader it would have been a very symbolic moment if he had gone to see her.

Chief Spence asked for both opposition parties to sign on so lets support that initiative and not worry about the fact that outlets like the CBC cannot help hyping the Liberal party.  Hell their online coverage went on and on about Rae's background in FN's negotiations and failed to mention Romeo was involved let alone highlight his negotiating history which is more extensive than Rae's.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

ennir, that is a brilliant post. I put it up on rabble's facebook page. Thanks for that thoughtful and insightful post!

ETA. And it's really racking up the likes!

ennir

Thanks Catchfire.

Unionist

Catchfire wrote:

ennir, that is a brilliant post. I put it up on rabble's facebook page. Thanks for that thoughtful and insightful post!

ETA. And it's really racking up the likes!

Yes. Thank you.

 

MegB

ennir, an excellent post. 

I've little understanding of FN politics (I'm familiar only in a social and spiritual way). You've expressed very eloquently what I think a lot of us feel.  Thank you. 

janfromthebruce

Too bad, everybody just followed along with doing some underhanded bashing of Mulcair and by extension the NDP. However, as said elsewhere, this is the real goods by Alice Funke and who APTN created for success. http://www.facebook.com/alicefunke?fref=ts

Of course, if you believe the Globe and Mail, Bob Rae was the key to success. Funny that APTN has a different story crediting Romeo Saganash.After 44 long days the hunger strike has come to an end with a declaration of intent for pushing for change for First Nation communities. I was honoured to work with Romeo Saganash and NAN DGC Alvin Fiddler on trying to find a just resolution. (3 photos)

And as Alice said in a comment, "And in the case of negotiations like this, the NDP observes the rule of negotiating that you don't talk to the media while talking behind closed doors, whereas the Liberals will cravenly try to take PR credit for all kinds of things they were only peripherally involved in."

 

 

 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..it seems sometimes we must forget to put the pieces together when moving from thread to thread. i clearly remember from the economic threads that capital is out of control. that this is leading to a state of permanent austerity and quickens the destruction of the environment. the thread also spoke of exactly how corporations control/use governments.

..this is what the peoples of canada is facing and in particular the first nations who are facing the brunt of the onslaught. what this is all about, imho, is that's all over. no more. today it has to stop. how we defend ourselves and make change is on the ground. right in the face of the corporations who are the puppet masters. not in the halls of parliament. we need to push from below if we want parliament to change yes but people are not waiting around for that to happen. this is not just me saying this. the ndp need to get behind participatory democracy in a way they just aren't capable of. at every turn they leave corporations in charge and that is the problem. they support the system when it's the system that's the problem and they know it. they can't help but know it.

Fidel

Unionist wrote:

I'm unimpressed by these PR warriors. They even stopped talking about Attawapiskat for a year, until Spence started her strike. They can't be trusted - they can only be pressured. But that means someone needs to pressure them, rather than just praising or evaluating their performances.

Vote for the parties supporting PR. With PR MP's will have to cater to the true majority and not the false one.

I'll be voting NDP for that reason.

Policywonk

Unionist wrote:

epaulo13 wrote:

..which public? the public that is speaking out? the public that is being exploted as if they were not human?

The same public that thought Africans were subhuman when Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation. Recall that he wasn't reelected, hence Mulcair had better be careful before he takes a position that racist colonial bigots may not approve.

Lincoln signed the preliminary Emancipation Proclamation in 1862 after the battle of Antietam, and the final proclamation went into effect on January 1, 1863. He was in fact re-elected in the election of 1864. He was not reelected after the passage of the 13th amendment, but he never ran for a third term of course because he was assassinated.

Unionist

Policywonk wrote:

Lincoln signed the preliminary Emancipation Proclamation in 1862 after the battle of Antietam, and the final proclamation went into effect on January 1, 1863. He was in fact re-elected in the election of 1864. He was not reelected after the passage of the 13th amendment, but he never ran for a third term of course because he was assassinated.

Thanks for the correction, PW. Then in fact, Mulcair should have no worries about supporting the demands of the Indigenous people. At least, not with respect to re-election.

 

Fidel

Harper will be idle no more in 2015.

Aristotleded24

kropotkin1951 wrote:
So is this about which settler political party can gain the most?  I know that Romeo has been involved and frankly I would have expected that Mulcair would have allowed Charles and Romeo to take the lead although as OO leader it would have been a very symbolic moment if he had gone to see her.

I agree. I can on some level understand why Mulcair would want to allow this to grow on its own and have his MPs meet with Spence, but he should have also met with Spence himself. As I said, very bad optics on his part.

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