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Mulcair will become Canada's next prime minister (thread #9)
Noticed regarding BC, Grenier has it closer as the Huff Po notes. Man, that guy is such a hack! Why doesn't he change his blog name to "308liberals.com"?
I suggest that NDP members stop nosing through the offal produced by the MSM and talk to real people. Why bother reading all that drivel. It merely clouds ones sense of what should be important.
The revelations add ammunition to critics who have charged that the Harper government is waging a campaign to demonize legitimate opponents of resource developments like the Northern Gateway, by labelling them as radicals or including them in Canada’s “counter-terrorism” strategy.
Saik’uz First Nation Chief Jackie Thomas, a member of the Yinka Dene Alliance who made a cross-country trip on the “Freedom Train” to protest in Toronto against the pipeline on Wednesday, said she has had suspicions for some time about RCMP surveillance.
“We’ve always been peaceful, but this is how they try to paint us as the enemy,” said Thomas, a grandmother and mother of four concerned that an oil spill could destroy the lands she hunts and fishes on with many of her community members.
“The federal government seems to be using all its arms to push through this project against the will of anyone who opposes it, but we won’t be deterred. It is not a crime to defend our land and waters from a tarsands pipeline and to make the future safe for our grandkids.”
According to the documents, the RCMP unit gathered intelligence from unspecified “industry reports,” newspapers and websites, and Facebook and Flickr photo accounts.
They also appear to have monitored private meetings, including one between First Nations and environmental organizations held in Fraser Lake, B.C., at the end of November, which Thomas says was not announced publicly.
The meeting’s purpose was “to strengthen the alliance between First Nations and environmental groups opposing Enbridge,” an intelligence report from December states.
Enbridge declined to comment about whether it has been exchanging information with the RCMP.
During the NDP leadership campaign, Mulcair was often portrayed as the most pro-Israel candidate in the race. That was because, in 2008, the left-wing magazine Canadian Dimension published a translated quote from Mulcair, in which he said, “I am an ardent supporter of Israel in all situations and in all circumstances.” (“Je suis un ardent supporter de toutes les instances et de toutes les circonstances d’Israël.”)
In his interview with the Straight, Mulcair emphasized that he is also an “ardent supporter of the creation of a Palestinian state”.
“That has always been the NDP’s position,” he said. “We should create a state for Palestinians and we should have a state for Israelis: a classic two-state solution.”
He added that this should be achieved “within a framework of international law and UN resolutions”.
“So on the international-law side, we know that the current [Israeli government] settlement policies, for example, go against the fourth Geneva Convention,” Mulcair stated. “So that’s something very clear in the NDP position, which has always been my position.”
Given his opposition to settlements in the occupied territories, the Straight suggested that Mulcair wasn’t an ardent supporter of Israel in all situations and in all circumstances.
“There is no contradiction between the two,” the NDP leader replied. “You can be an ardent supporter of a country and say that something that they’re doing in that case has to be changed. But it doesn’t mean you’re not a supporter of the country. You have to be very careful with those words. What I’m saying is I’m not going to use my opposition to something that they’re doing as an excuse to call for an end to the state of Israel, which is what some of the adversaries of Israel do.”
He's doing as I predicted he would: now that he is Leader, his personal support of Israel takes a back seat to the de facto positioning of the NDP on the issue.
Previously, Mulcair stretched the limits of heavily tilting towards Israel in practice, while staying within the bounds of the NDPs formal position. That's easy, since the 'literal position' is so vague. But in practice, the NDP is as critical of Israel as elected Canadian politicians generally get, and Mulcair as leader is now re-positioning himself to be there.
Of course he says that this was always his position- and I'm not really questioning him on that. But the intent of that old quote often kicked around was to express all but uncritical support of Israel, and he is as predicted pedaling away from it now. He was wise to just leave it alone during the race, even knowing this was where he would be going.
Jack generally left others to speak about Israel and Palestine issues. Mulcair will probably do that even more.
If anyone predicted that Mulcair's personal support for Israel would take a back seat, then they were awful quiet about it during the leadership campaign. I remember "indistinguishable from Harper" was the battlecry here. KenS is one of the few people who noted that the NDP positioning on I-P is vague. But whenever someone posted a quote from the NDP platform, the battlecry became "then the whole NDP is indistinguishable from Harper".
Regardless of whether it was predictable or not, I'm really pleased to see Mulcair committing to peace. No war with Iran. No more settlements in occupied territories. A state for Palestine.
For what it's worth, I wonder if there's something lost in the translation of "Je suis un ardent supporter de toutes les instances et de toutes les circonstances d'Israel." Maybe in French is sounds less like uncritical support of the Israeli government, and more like uncritical support of Israel's right to exist.
The last thing: there's a lot of pressure for politicians to give into anti-Islam hysteria. We have to keep pressuring the NDP and Mulcair to resist that. Whether you think Mulcair has changed or he's been right all along, keep pressuring him.
We should create a state for Palestinians and we should have a state for Israelis: a classic two-state solution.
Is the two state solution the NDP's official policy?
I want to like Tom but he needs to show more of an unbiased approach than just saying he supports a two state solution.
Where are the comments from Mulcair regarding the almost 1,600 political prisoners on a hunger strike in the Israeli gulag. They are supporting a smaller number of prisoners who have been jailed for months and years without being charged or convicted of any crime. That might be a good place to show the NDP stands for something not just support for Israel. Although since Canada also has laws now that allow for imprisonment without the benefit of due process he would first have to call for overturning the terrorism laws here.
Personally I think that one secular state is the answer most likely to bring lasting peace. But I am neither Israeli or Palestinian so my views are irrelevant as are the NDP's on the "solution."
Tom Mulcair wrote:
"No member of our caucus, whatever other title they have, is allowed to invent their own policy," said Mulcair. "We take decisions together, parties formulate policies together, and to say that you're personally in favour of boycott, divestment and sanctions for the only democracy in the Middle East is, as far as I'm concerned, grossly unacceptable."
I am still waiting for him to apologize to the people of Turkey, our NATO ally and the people of Lebanon. This "Israel is the only democracy" is bullshit. Israel is a racist state that denies basic freedoms based on religion.
That latter quote is what he said in the heat of the Libby affair- in case anyone really thought there was any doubt he was then stretching NDP 'policy' as far as he could make it sound like it goes.
Which is the same Tom Mulcair that provided that more recent supporter of Israel forever quote that got so much circulation, and the Straight brought up to him.
Like I said, we will not be hearing any more of this from Tom Mulcair. But if you want peace, dont expect sacrifices at the altar. The changed Tom Mulcair you have got. But there will be no apology for stands of the past.
I was objecting to his dismissal of the other democracies in the region. That sticks in my craw. I hope you are right and at least he will not repeat that bullshit anti-Arab racism.
I am still waiting for him to apologize to the people of Turkey, our NATO ally and the people of Lebanon. This "Israel is the only democracy" is bullshit. Israel is a racist state that denies basic freedoms based on religion.
More than two-thirds of all oilsands production in Canada is owned by foreign entities, sending a majority of the industry's profits out of the country, says a new analysis released Thursday by a British Columbia-based conservation group.
The research by Forest Ethics Advocacy was based on an analysis of shareholder information in January 2012 from Bloomberg Professional of more than a dozen companies, including nine with headquarters in Canada, and six with their head offices in other countries. It found 71 per cent of the ownership of oilsands production was foreign, while the foreign-based companies controlled 24.2 per cent of the sector's production.
"Some notably Canadian oil companies, such as Suncor, Canadian Oil Sands and Husky, are predominantly owned by non-Canadians," said the report. "The data also shows us that more than half of Canada's oil and gas revenue goes to foreign entities."
The analysis, which also used production data in January from Oilsands Review, a publication that focuses on unconventional oil issues, found $11.7 billion of investments in oilsands production between 2007 and 2011 were coming from China, making up about 16 per cent of the total investments of $73.6 billion in that time period.
Alberta's oilsands sector has become a target of many well-organized environmental campaigns because it requires huge amounts of land, water and energy to extract heavy oil from the natural bitumen deposits in the ground that are considered to make up one of the largest oil reserves in the world.
But Prime Minister Stephen Harper's government responded by launching an international lobbying and marketing campaign, in partnership with industry and the Alberta government, to promote the oilsands industry abroad and counter foreign environmental policies that target the sector's footprint on the atmosphere.
Internal federal documents have concluded oilsands production is the fastest growing source of greenhouse gas emissions in Canada.
Scientists and governments from around the world say all sources of the heat-trapping emissions must be dramatically reduced to avoid potentially irreversible changes to the planet's ecosystems, atmosphere and the global economy from climate change.
Meantime, the Canadian Energy Research Institute, a government-funded think-tank, has estimated that the oilsands sector is responsible for more than 100,000 direct and indirect jobs in Canada, and will contribute more than $1.7-trillion to the country's economy over the next 25 years. But the institute's research has been challenged by some economists, including former Insurance Corporation of British Columbia president Robyn Allan, who have argued this analysis doesn't adequately consider the impact of fluctuations of the Canadian dollar or oil prices, among other factors.
Forest Ethics Advocacy said that its own analysis on ownership demonstrates that recent efforts by Harper's government to weaken Canada's environmental protection laws and speed up approval of industrial projects are not in the national interest.
"Nystrom says Mulcair is all in favour of resource development as long as it is sustainable. Nystrom has been a supporter of Mulcair and is a prominent New Democrat, particularly on the national scene.
Turkey is primarily in Asia. There is a little bit in Europe. Turkish people do NOT think they are European they see themselves as Turkish. Bulgaria is its only European neighbour but it borders the Asian countries of Georgia, Iran, Iraq, and Syria.
Istanbul hasn't been Constantinople since 1453. Much of Istanbul is technically in Europe since the city straddles the Bosphorus. So it is one of the largest cities in Europe. Just because Victoria and the southern tip of Vancouver Island are below the 49th parallel does not mean they are American. Despite the geography that should make them part of the US I can assure you Victoria is Canadian.
For the purpose of democracies I note that the capital Ankara is completely in Asia.
What about Lebanon or Palestine? Are their democracies more tainted than Greece or the USA? Hopefully he will not repeat such rude slights of other countries voters.
haha, turkey's as european as lebanon is. if old kemal had come out on the losing side (in the way, say, that the greek communists did), this discussion would be completely moot. in effect, however, the conscious adoptions of western moeurs by the elite classes of post-ww1 turkey - and concomitant westernization program - has seeped down to the great many, creating a general feeling that the turkish people's cultural particularlities have more in common with their european neighbors than their muslim cousins or their linguistic relations in the caucauses and steppes from which their ancestors swooped a few hundred years ago, to put paid to the eastern empire.
Manufacturing consent in Turkey included the NATO military getting rid of the main non-european centered party.
Quote:
In 1998, Erdoğan, then mayor of Istanbul, was sentenced for religious sedition over a poem with Islamist connotations that he had recited at a political rally. He served four months in jail.
The conviction came less than a year after then-Prime Minister Necmettin Erbakan resigned under the pressure of a secularist campaign led by the military known as the “post-modern coup.”
Erdoğan slammed the support that much of the mainstream media, judiciary and civic groups gave the army during the time of the coup. “We clenched our fists and bit our lips. We prayed for patience and hoped that Allah would be with the oppressed,” Erdoğan said.
“We endured the broadcasts that insulted our faith, fanned provocations and splattered scum on the people from the screens. We endured the justice system of those who gave 10-minute standing ovations to briefings [by the military] and issued lightning rulings against us. We showed patience to the hypocrites who saluted the military under the guise of nongovernmental groups,” he said. “And today is the day when the curses of the oppressed are taking effect and justice is prevailing. God willing, Turkey will never again go through such dark periods and democracy will never be suspended.”
Parliamentary Speaker Cemil Çiçek, meanwhile, cautioned against feeling of “revenge” and described the investigation as a “test for the country.”
Turkey wants to join the EU, or at least it did, probably not so much now.
Turkey also grew tired of being blocked by Cyprus which indicated that it will block Turkey's EU application until Turkey withdraws from the occupied part of Cyprus.
Noticed regarding BC, Grenier has it closer as the Huff Po notes. Man, that guy is such a hack! Why doesn't he change his blog name to "308liberals.com"?
Sounds more like like the poor Globe is moaning over the loss of 1 of the 2 right-wing parties in Canada.
‘Sad and pathetic’ anti-Mulcair salvo lacks punch of past Tory attackshttp://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/sad-and-pat...
Quoting the NDP in the story headline is the Globe moaning about problems for the right?
And Grenier is just a plain hack, not a hack for the Liberals. [He descibes/described himself as BQ aligned.]
I suggest that NDP members stop nosing through the offal produced by the MSM and talk to real people. Why bother reading all that drivel. It merely clouds ones sense of what should be important.
So the fight begins.
Tom Mulcair’s call for environmental responsibility hits nerve in the Westhttp://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1175215--tim-harper-...
Come to think of it we need a Prime Minister. Canada is supposed to have one.
This is concerning in that it has the potential to split the left-of-centre folks into 2 camps - the ones that vote, and the ones that don't!
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1175715--hebert-ball...
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1175824--rcmp-spied-...
i don't think it's troubling
Whats with reading a Toronto newspaper to find out about the West?
The RCMP is spying on every effective activist in this country. Didn't you get the memo?
Yea, right!
Interesting'
http://m.torontosun.com/2012/05/08/its-time-to-listen-up-on-the-liberal-...
Is Mulcair walking back previous pro-Israel positions?
He's doing as I predicted he would: now that he is Leader, his personal support of Israel takes a back seat to the de facto positioning of the NDP on the issue.
Previously, Mulcair stretched the limits of heavily tilting towards Israel in practice, while staying within the bounds of the NDPs formal position. That's easy, since the 'literal position' is so vague. But in practice, the NDP is as critical of Israel as elected Canadian politicians generally get, and Mulcair as leader is now re-positioning himself to be there.
Of course he says that this was always his position- and I'm not really questioning him on that. But the intent of that old quote often kicked around was to express all but uncritical support of Israel, and he is as predicted pedaling away from it now. He was wise to just leave it alone during the race, even knowing this was where he would be going.
Jack generally left others to speak about Israel and Palestine issues. Mulcair will probably do that even more.
If anyone predicted that Mulcair's personal support for Israel would take a back seat, then they were awful quiet about it during the leadership campaign. I remember "indistinguishable from Harper" was the battlecry here. KenS is one of the few people who noted that the NDP positioning on I-P is vague. But whenever someone posted a quote from the NDP platform, the battlecry became "then the whole NDP is indistinguishable from Harper".
Regardless of whether it was predictable or not, I'm really pleased to see Mulcair committing to peace. No war with Iran. No more settlements in occupied territories. A state for Palestine.
For what it's worth, I wonder if there's something lost in the translation of "Je suis un ardent supporter de toutes les instances et de toutes les circonstances d'Israel." Maybe in French is sounds less like uncritical support of the Israeli government, and more like uncritical support of Israel's right to exist.
The last thing: there's a lot of pressure for politicians to give into anti-Islam hysteria. We have to keep pressuring the NDP and Mulcair to resist that. Whether you think Mulcair has changed or he's been right all along, keep pressuring him.
On the existence of a NDP basehttp://www2.macleans.ca/2012/04/23/on-the-existence-of-an-ndp-base/
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/second-reading/bruce-anders...
Is the two state solution the NDP's official policy?
I want to like Tom but he needs to show more of an unbiased approach than just saying he supports a two state solution.
Where are the comments from Mulcair regarding the almost 1,600 political prisoners on a hunger strike in the Israeli gulag. They are supporting a smaller number of prisoners who have been jailed for months and years without being charged or convicted of any crime. That might be a good place to show the NDP stands for something not just support for Israel. Although since Canada also has laws now that allow for imprisonment without the benefit of due process he would first have to call for overturning the terrorism laws here.
Personally I think that one secular state is the answer most likely to bring lasting peace. But I am neither Israeli or Palestinian so my views are irrelevant as are the NDP's on the "solution."
I am still waiting for him to apologize to the people of Turkey, our NATO ally and the people of Lebanon. This "Israel is the only democracy" is bullshit. Israel is a racist state that denies basic freedoms based on religion.
That latter quote is what he said in the heat of the Libby affair- in case anyone really thought there was any doubt he was then stretching NDP 'policy' as far as he could make it sound like it goes.
Which is the same Tom Mulcair that provided that more recent supporter of Israel forever quote that got so much circulation, and the Straight brought up to him.
Like I said, we will not be hearing any more of this from Tom Mulcair. But if you want peace, dont expect sacrifices at the altar. The changed Tom Mulcair you have got. But there will be no apology for stands of the past.
I was objecting to his dismissal of the other democracies in the region. That sticks in my craw. I hope you are right and at least he will not repeat that bullshit anti-Arab racism.
Doesn't Turkey consider itself part of Europe?
http://www.vancouversun.com/business/2035/world/6599556/story.html
More than two-thirds of all oilsands production in Canada is owned by foreign entities, sending a majority of the industry's profits out of the country, says a new analysis released Thursday by a British Columbia-based conservation group.
The research by Forest Ethics Advocacy was based on an analysis of shareholder information in January 2012 from Bloomberg Professional of more than a dozen companies, including nine with headquarters in Canada, and six with their head offices in other countries. It found 71 per cent of the ownership of oilsands production was foreign, while the foreign-based companies controlled 24.2 per cent of the sector's production.
"Some notably Canadian oil companies, such as Suncor, Canadian Oil Sands and Husky, are predominantly owned by non-Canadians," said the report. "The data also shows us that more than half of Canada's oil and gas revenue goes to foreign entities."
The analysis, which also used production data in January from Oilsands Review, a publication that focuses on unconventional oil issues, found $11.7 billion of investments in oilsands production between 2007 and 2011 were coming from China, making up about 16 per cent of the total investments of $73.6 billion in that time period.
Alberta's oilsands sector has become a target of many well-organized environmental campaigns because it requires huge amounts of land, water and energy to extract heavy oil from the natural bitumen deposits in the ground that are considered to make up one of the largest oil reserves in the world.
But Prime Minister Stephen Harper's government responded by launching an international lobbying and marketing campaign, in partnership with industry and the Alberta government, to promote the oilsands industry abroad and counter foreign environmental policies that target the sector's footprint on the atmosphere.
Internal federal documents have concluded oilsands production is the fastest growing source of greenhouse gas emissions in Canada.
Scientists and governments from around the world say all sources of the heat-trapping emissions must be dramatically reduced to avoid potentially irreversible changes to the planet's ecosystems, atmosphere and the global economy from climate change.
Meantime, the Canadian Energy Research Institute, a government-funded think-tank, has estimated that the oilsands sector is responsible for more than 100,000 direct and indirect jobs in Canada, and will contribute more than $1.7-trillion to the country's economy over the next 25 years. But the institute's research has been challenged by some economists, including former Insurance Corporation of British Columbia president Robyn Allan, who have argued this analysis doesn't adequately consider the impact of fluctuations of the Canadian dollar or oil prices, among other factors.
Forest Ethics Advocacy said that its own analysis on ownership demonstrates that recent efforts by Harper's government to weaken Canada's environmental protection laws and speed up approval of industrial projects are not in the national interest.
I've always thought Turkey was in that geographical grey area of being somwhere between Europe and Asia.
Um, no. Turkey on one side of the straits is in Europe, and on the other, in Asia. It's not a matter of politics. It's geography.
Saskatchewan's Lorne Nystrom Reacts to Mulcair's Oil Comments
http://ckom.com/story/saskatchewans-lorne-nystrom-reacts-mulcair-oil-com...
"Nystrom says Mulcair is all in favour of resource development as long as it is sustainable. Nystrom has been a supporter of Mulcair and is a prominent New Democrat, particularly on the national scene.
more on Nystrom:
http://www.cija.ca/our-team/board-of-directors/the-hon-lorne-nystrom/
Turkey is primarily in Asia. There is a little bit in Europe. Turkish people do NOT think they are European they see themselves as Turkish. Bulgaria is its only European neighbour but it borders the Asian countries of Georgia, Iran, Iraq, and Syria.
Istanbul hasn't been Constantinople since 1453. Much of Istanbul is technically in Europe since the city straddles the Bosphorus. So it is one of the largest cities in Europe. Just because Victoria and the southern tip of Vancouver Island are below the 49th parallel does not mean they are American. Despite the geography that should make them part of the US I can assure you Victoria is Canadian.
For the purpose of democracies I note that the capital Ankara is completely in Asia.
What about Lebanon or Palestine? Are their democracies more tainted than Greece or the USA? Hopefully he will not repeat such rude slights of other countries voters.
haha, turkey's as european as lebanon is. if old kemal had come out on the losing side (in the way, say, that the greek communists did), this discussion would be completely moot. in effect, however, the conscious adoptions of western moeurs by the elite classes of post-ww1 turkey - and concomitant westernization program - has seeped down to the great many, creating a general feeling that the turkish people's cultural particularlities have more in common with their european neighbors than their muslim cousins or their linguistic relations in the caucauses and steppes from which their ancestors swooped a few hundred years ago, to put paid to the eastern empire.
Manufacturing consent in Turkey included the NATO military getting rid of the main non-european centered party.
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-parties-try-to-get-over-era-of-...
Turkey also grew tired of being blocked by Cyprus which indicated that it will block Turkey's EU application until Turkey withdraws from the occupied part of Cyprus.